B+ in a practicum?

[psychetudier]

Hello, third year clinical psych student here. We found out during our evaluation sessions for this semester that our current practicum supervisor doesn't give A grades on principle. So I will now have a B+ on my transcript for a semester of practicum and I'm wondering if this will hurt me when it comes time to apply for internships. I've heard that a B grade in a practicum course can indicate deficiencies to training directors and might be a red flag. All other practicum grades on my transcript (actually, all of my grades) are As. I'll have good letters of rec. But I feel like I'd have to find a way to explain the B+ and I worry that my application will just be thrown out since it's such a competitive pool of applicants. I'm considering discussing this with my supervisor, but I'm trying to be circumspect about it. If it isn't going to have a big impact on my future, I'm inclined to let it go and move on. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[PsyDr]

1) Some people are difficult and asking for change is unlikely to have positive results.
2) You're in school now, but really no one cares about grades once you get to internship.

 

[PsychPsyance]

Imo, this won't matter at all. But, that's a total dick move on their part. If a faculty member in my dept took this approach we'd have words.

 

[erg923]

Hello, third year clinical psych student here. We found out during our evaluation sessions for this semester that our current practicum supervisor doesn't give A grades on principle. So I will now have a B+ on my transcript for a semester of practicum and I'm wondering if this will hurt me when it comes time to apply for internships. I've heard that a B grade in a practicum course can indicate deficiencies to training directors and might be a red flag. All other practicum grades on my transcript (actually, all of my grades) are As. I'll have good letters of rec. But I feel like I'd have to find a way to explain the B+ and I worry that my application will just be thrown out since it's such a competitive pool of applicants. I'm considering discussing this with my supervisor, but I'm trying to be circumspect about it. If it isn't going to have a big impact on my future, I'm inclined to let it go and move on. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

"On principle" is stupid way to assess one's performance. You can talk to to the chair, but its unlikely to change it.

I wouldn't worry about this unless you have alot of other Bs AND some Cs on the transcript too.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Agreed with everything said. Seems like a jerk move, but unless there are multiple other grade-related red flags on your transcripts (which there aren't), it likely won't matter; and no one after internship (and possibly the occasional fellowship) is likely to look or care. I would also be legitimately shocked if any internship site tossed your application because of a single B+ in practicum.

Could be worth mentioning to your program/DCT after you've completed the practicum and/or your degree, though.

 

[MCParent]

Could be worth mentioning to your program/DCT after you've completed the practicum and/or your degree, though.

Agree. SV has a stupid rule but it's faculty's job to address it with the SV, not an individual student's.

Also probably no one will even notice for internship apps.

 

[WorkLifeBalance]

I would likely notice it when reviewing your transcript, but if it was one of only one or two B+'s, I'd assume it was either a practicum supervisor that had a policy like this, or that you had genuine difficulties during that one practicum that you were able to address (which suggests you respond well to feedback and are able to learn) - neither of which would make me think you wouldn't be a good applicant/intern.

 

[deleted656923]

1) Some people are difficult and asking for change is unlikely to have positive results.
2) You're in school now, but really no one cares about grades once you get to internship.

Though it can potentially hurt this student if they apply for a competitive dissertation or graduate fellowship in a case in which GPA is the deciding factor between two similar applicants.

 

[thebalmofhurtminds]

To provide a different perspective, I just took part in my site's internship review process, and a B on a practicum was definitely a soft red flag according to the training directors and committee here.

I agree that bringing it up as a concern to the DCT is the best choice. What a ridiculous way to grade practicums.

 

[WisNeuro]

We have generally only viewed it as a red flag if there is something else, or if a letter writer hints at problems on practicum.

 

[psychetudier]

Thanks for all of your thoughts. The rationale for the policy is that it "leaves no room for growth," which, I mean, is not what an A means by most definitions. But I'm not going to argue that with SV. Anyway, I will communicate this to the DCT and Chair (we have anonymous evaluations that go directly to the chair and are not seen by supervisors) and move on with my life. Thanks again! I did feel a bit better after reading these responses.

 

[erg923]

Thanks for all of your thoughts. The rationale for the policy is that it "leaves no room for growth," which, I mean, is not what an A means by most definitions. But I'm not going to argue that with SV. Anyway, I will communicate this to the TD and Chair (we have anonymous evaluations that go directly to the chair and are not seen by supervisors) and move on with my life. Thanks again! I did feel a bit better after reading these responses.

That’s all is his/her head and is not based in reality. They are making their problem your problem. And that’s a shame.

People who think in such concrete and ridiculous ways should not be clinical supervisors.

 

[psychetudier]

That’s all is his/her head and is not based in reality. They are making their problem your problem. And that’s a shame.

People who think in such concrete and ridiculous ways should not be clinical supervisors.

Agree. And sigh.

 

[erg923]

Agree. And sigh.

All of this should be moot if your university had in place appropriate developmental competencies for which supervisors are to reference to rate and grade their students. What’s up with that?

Are supervisors is just randomly determining letter grades for practicum? What’s the rubric?

 

[psychetudier]

All of this should be moot if your university had in place appropriate developmental competencies for which supervisors to rate and grade their students. What’s up with that?

Are supervisors is just randomly determining letter grades For practicum? What’s the rubric?

Each supervisor has their own syllabus but ultimately follows the program's evaluation form for final grades. The form has a boatload of Likert scale ratings in different areas of competence, small boxes for open-ended responses, a place to say whether the student can move to the next level, and a grade. All supervisors tend to approach this differently. I had one SV give everyone straight 3s (3=average, their rationale being "average" means we are progressing as we should be) through the eval and then give A final grades. With other supervisors, a 3 is like a "fail" on a single item and they almost never give it (only giving 4s and 5s and final A grades). With this supervisor I got a mix of 3s, 4s ("above average"), and 5s ("extremely skillful") and from that the B+ final grade. So while yes we have this rubric and guideline for evaluating, all supervisors interpret it differently. As far as I know, though, all supervisors other than this one give A grades unless something egregious happens.

 

[deleted343839]

Sorry to hear. That's tough. I don't think that B, in isolation, will hurt you.

Do talk with your DCT nonetheless. I was once supervised and graded by an intern (an Argosy grad, no less) who recommended a B for my practicum grade. My DCT ignored him based on other feedback from the faculty on site and gave me an A.

 

[Jegg]

How infuriating....

And narcissistic on the part of the supervisor.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Could you get your DCT to address this in your internship readiness letter, if you can't get the grade changed?

 

[123EW]

Have the conversation with the supervisor using assertive communication skills. If nothing else, you will have a great answer to the common interview prompt: Tell me about a difficult situation with a supervisor and how you resolved it.

 

[psychetudier]

Have the conversation with the supervisor using assertive communication skills. If nothing else, you will have a great answer to the common interview prompt: Tell me about a difficult situation with a supervisor and how you resolved it.

I really like this idea, thank you.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I really like this idea, thank you.

Any update on this, OP?

 

[psychetudier]

Any update on this, OP?

I mentioned the policy to the chair of the psych department and he seemed unconcerned. I know that others in my supervision group were considering bringing this up, but I also sense that everyone (myself included) is starting to drift more towards letting it go as time passes. I'm feeling exhausted and a little burned out and the idea of making this a thing (even a little thing) is less and less appealing. As for having a discussion directly with our supervisor... they are on medical leave (as of about a week or so ago) and it seems inappropriate to have this conversation at this point. Not sure when they will return and I wonder if the timing will just be off. :/

 

[erg923]

I mentioned the policy to the chair of the psych department and he seemed unconcerned. I know that others in my supervision group were considering bringing this up, but I also sense that everyone (myself included) is starting to drift more towards letting it go as time passes. I'm feeling exhausted and a little burned out and the idea of making this a thing (even a little thing) is less and less appealing. As for having a discussion directly with our supervisor... they are on medical leave (as of about a week or so ago) and it seems inappropriate to have this conversation at this point. Not sure when they will return and I wonder if the timing will just be off. :/

Is your supervisor like 80 or something? I'm not even kidding.

This seems like a: "I grew-up in the 50's and walked up hill to school both ways in the snow."

Again, this doesn't seem consistent with modern developmental assessment.... which has long been the norm for "grading" porous competencies such as psychological prac. The whole A,B,C, D thing should probably be eliminated all together for this kind of thing. I'm pretty sure I got a P or F with copious notes when I was in graduate school like 10 years ago. But frankly, I don't remember for sure. Are letter grades commonly accepted metrics for grad school prac? It just seems weird to me.

 

[psychetudier]

Is your supervisor like 80 or something? I'm not even kidding.

This seems like a: "I grew-up in the 50's and walked up hill to school both ways in the snow."

Again, this doesn't seem consistent with modern developmental assessment.... which has long been the norm for "grading" porous competencies such as psychological prac. The whole A,B,C, D thing should probably be eliminated all together for this kind of thing. I'm pretty sure I got a P or F with copious notes when I was in graduate school like 10 years ago. But frankly, I don't remember for sure. Are letter grades commonly accepted metrics for grad school prac? It just seems weird to me.

Yeah I agree a P/F would be a better measure of performance in a practicum.

I've been purposefully vague to keep things focused on the "policy" and separate any personal impressions, but to give a little more context, they are relatively young (under 40), with a very rigid, controlling, critical supervisory style. I looked around during supervision sessions and saw people's hands shaking while discussing their cases. I had trouble sleeping the night before and after supervision sessions. Sometimes I wonder if they just couldn't bear to give anyone an A because it might make it seem like we did something well. They're very logic-based so it's hard to believe the grading thing is about "growth" (because that is illogical). But that's all more grey-area stuff.

 

[erg923]

Yeah I agree a P/F would be a better measure of performance in a practicum.

I've been purposefully vague to keep things focused on the "policy" and separate any personal impressions, but to give a little more context, they are relatively young (under 40), with a very rigid, controlling, critical supervisory style. I looked around during supervision sessions and saw people's hands shaking while discussing their cases. I had trouble sleeping the night before and after supervision sessions. Sometimes I wonder if they just couldn't bear to give anyone an A because it might make it seem like we did something well. They're very logic-based so it's hard to believe the grading thing is about "growth" (because that is illogical). But that's all more grey-area stuff.

Fantastic! What a great environment for developmental learning to take place, right? Just make sure you let he or she know we all really do like playing "drop the Hankee" after we listen to Little Orphan Annie on the transistor radio just before FDR's weekly Fireside Chats.

Seriously though... please talk to your Department Chair about a recruiting a more robust, available, and clinically-rounded clinical supervisor? Clinical supervisors should be in current practice, and preferably have worked in the current academic and medical/behavioral health healthcare system in this century.

Master teachers that may exist within Counseling Psychology programs are a great option (hint, hint)....as are Psychologists that work within VA and/or corporate business settings...