Australia becoming too expensive?

[Augustus]

Does anybody else think that Australia is getting too expensive for United States citizens?

Early in 2009 $1.00 USD was worth roughly $1.50 AUD.

Today $1.00 USD is only worth $1.08 AUD.

If the US economy doesn't bounce back Australia definitely is not going to be an option for me.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[nephappl]

As long as Australia keeps sounding money policies like increasing interests rates and here in the US government keeps high spending, zero interest rates and printing money like crazy the US dollar should just fall like a stone. Do not be surprised seeing AuzzieDollar being more valuable that US dollar in the future.
NA

 

[shan564]

If you look at the history of exchange rates over the course of the last few years, you'll see that they fluctuate like crazy. In June 2008, the rate was something like $1.02. In February 2009, it was over $1.60. A couple of years ago, it got pretty close to $2.00. It's gone back down now, but I think experts agree that the true value is about $1.25-1.30.

The future of the exchange rate is complicated... if anybody knew the answer for sure, they'd invest accordingly and make lots of money. There are lots of short-term swings here and there... but in reality, it'll eventually revert back to its real value.

I usually try to time the market when I'm deciding on the best time to accept my loan money. I get payments at random times, so I try to make it so that I accept the payment whenever the exchange rate is best.

 

[frankie2456]

you never know about economy.

 

[jaketheory]

many financial experts predict the aussie dollar will hit 1.10USD in 2010. i moved to Sydney from Boston. Boston was way more expensive than i was used to and Sydney is considerably more expensive than Boston. i pay 1000AUD/month in rent (which is nearly 1000USD with the current exchange rate) plus many of your favorite commonplace items in the US may be expensive specialty items here, e.g. black beans, salsa. in boston i could get dried black beans for 0.89USD/lb, here the cheapest i've found is 2.73AUD/lb, or 300% more. brown rice is about 25% more here. and a small jar of salsa is ~4.5AUD.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

What did you expect? Obama is in the pocket of Wall Street. The biggest reason why the Dollar is crashing is because the Federal Reserve has been printing money like crazy and has been keeping interest rates low. The bailout money has gone to big banks not normal people, and hence the US Dollar is crashing and unemployment is in the double digits. My girlfriend lost her home because the bank raised her interest rate making it unaffordable. The Aussie would still be undervalued at $1.10 US, Australia's economic fundamentals are much better than America's, yes Sydney is pricey but I wouldn't rank it with a big US city, in fact I went to LA and was shocked at how expensive things are in LA which I think is more expensive than Sydney, the only affordable areas in LA are those where you cannot wear red or blue clothing unless you want to get shot in a drive by shooting. The cost of living is all relative, go the doctor in Boston and you might file Chapter 11, go to the doctor in Sydney and the Australian government covers it. Mexican beans cost more in Sydney?? Huh, Mexico is 10,000 miles away from Oz but there is plenty of Asian food. I actually disagree with you on food prices, some things in Australia are actually better priced like yogurt.

 

[jaketheory]

What did you expect? Obama is in the pocket of Wall Street. The biggest reason why the Dollar is crashing is because the Federal Reserve has been printing money like crazy and has been keeping interest rates low. The bailout money has gone to big banks not normal people, and hence the US Dollar is crashing and unemployment is in the double digits. My girlfriend lost her home because the bank raised her interest rate making it unaffordable. The Aussie would still be undervalued at $1.10 US, Australia's economic fundamentals are much better than America's, yes Sydney is pricey but I wouldn't rank it with a big US city, in fact I went to LA and was shocked at how expensive things are in LA which I think is more expensive than Sydney, the only affordable areas in LA are those where you cannot wear red or blue clothing unless you want to get shot in a drive by shooting. The cost of living is all relative, go the doctor in Boston and you might file Chapter 11, go to the doctor in Sydney and the Australian government covers it. Mexican beans cost more in Sydney?? Huh, Mexico is 10,000 miles away from Oz but there is plenty of Asian food. I actually disagree with you on food prices, some things in Australia are actually better priced like yogurt.

look. janikey why do you have to insist on spurrting off negative spinned retorts?

there is no denying that Boston is an expensive city and Sydney is definitely considerably more expensive than Boston.

no **** mexico is far away. i was just giving examples of how many of the things some one in the US are used to will cost more here. i too have found a few things a lil cheaper. for example i can get packaged quick oats cheaper here than i could regular oats from a bulk bin at a co-op store in boston. but the items that cost more here far outnumber the things that are cheaper. if you are a beer drinker, get ready to spend a lot. the cheap stuff is $13/six pack. some are $20/six pack.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

look. janikey why do you have to insist on spurrting off negative spinned retorts?

there is no denying that Boston is an expensive city and Sydney is definitely considerably more expensive than Boston.

no **** mexico is far away. i was just giving examples of how many of the things some one in the US are used to will cost more here. i too have found a few things a lil cheaper. for example i can get packaged quick oats cheaper here than i could regular oats from a bulk bin at a co-op store in boston. but the items that cost more here far outnumber the things that are cheaper. if you are a beer drinker, get ready to spend a lot. the cheap stuff is $13/six pack. some are $20/six pack.

Well I spent time in places like SF, LA, and Miami during most of my time in the US. I also went to a very famous graduate school in Boston. I actually think Sydney compares well to LA and SF but I would say yes its more expensive than Boston. In the good suburbs of Boston you could buy a nice luxurious newly constructed 3,000 square foot home for maybe $500,000 to $600,000US, no way you could get that in LA or SF, or even Sydney, in fact a similar home in the Northern Suburbs of Sydney will be at least a couple of million dollars. I generally keep very good tabs on my spending, and I do not really spend much more in Sydney than I did in the other cities, especially in California. Ocean front real estate in South Florida in my experience is only for the uber rich, ocean front homes in Sydney are pricey but nothing like similar homes in Miami, in fact someone one doctor's income could live in an ocean front home in a good suburb of Sydney without much hassle, in fact my girlfriends best friend from med school lives in one. Yes LA is crazy expensive these days, real estate prices in So Cal have surpassed the SF Bay Area in the first decade of this new century, during the 1990s it was the other way around. Sydney is the big magnet city of Australia and hence its expensive but other cities in Australia are way more affordable. Brisbane and Adelaide come to mind, even Melbourne has tons of affordable quality housing in the suburbs, I saw a 4 bedroom house in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne going for around $250 a week, that would get you a messed up studio in the Inner West of Sydney. Foods and drinks are more expensive in Australia than in North America but the quality is a lot better. Don't really drink beer, not much of an alcohol consumer. Coke in Australia is a lot better than the North American version and has real sugar instead of HFCS. Electronics and automobiles are a lot more expensive in Oz, but Australia enjoys better air quality and overall their environment is better than ours, you get blue water beaches in Sydney, a city of nearly 5 million people.

Dude, I have lived outside of the US for over a decade, I can tell you I always meet expats who whinge and complain about a country not having a particular product or service and almost 99 percent of the time, they are an American or Canadian whining about how this is not there. This one idiot I knew from Oregon used to complain to me about the price of peanut butter in Italy, Italians don't eat peanut butter, Nutella is a lot more popular. Before coming to Oz, I was in Europe, and saw how fellow North Americans behaved and it got me so disgusted, that I usually avoid them because their whining is annoying and jingoistic not to mention rude. I adjusted because I just went with the flow instead of acting like a tall poppy. Trust me, I would donate my left kidney to get a EU passport as an Aussie one is going to now be in my reach, there are a lot of awesome things in Australia and other countries that you cannot find in America. Personally I love Oporto, and you don't have fast food of that level in the US. I also love NRL and think our American Gridiron is LAME. Think about how Aussies or Europeans feel about living in the US. I know a German girl in California who misses running around naked in saunas, something that is popular with Germans. When I compare my life in Australia to that of my friends and especially my former girlfriend who lost her home, I realize how lucky I am to be in Australia.

Considering the unprecedented levels of foreign debt that the US has, I won't be surprised if the US Dollar falls another 50 percent in the next several years, the long term out look for the US Dollar is very poor. Don't believe me, look it up, US national debt will double over the next decade, that while other nations look for an alternative for the Dollar as a medium of world trade.

 

[pitman]

There are two surveys that are used as the gold standard for cost of living.

The 2009 Mercer survey puts Sydney and Boston about equally expensive for expats. However, the survey was apparently done when the AUD took a plunge briefly (as Mercer points out), and for 2008 Sydney was ranked much costlier while Boston much less so, so if the survey were done today Sydney would likely again be around 15th to Boston's ~60th (i.e., again ranked significantly more expensive).

The Economist's cost-of-living table for expats from 2009 put Sydney a little less costly (35th) than Boston (49th), while Sydney was relatively much costlier last year (17th vs. 77th) -- the earlier lower cost of Sydney presumably due to the same dip in Australian currency. The Economist's table doesn't count rent, while Mercer does.

Cost of living comparisons are wrought with problems though (e.g., whose dollar should be the comparison?? Economist's is the USD) and the above should be taken for what they are -- rankings which reflect cost indices calculated to allow companies to give meaningful salary adjustments to employees living abroad (e.g., if employee makes USD x, what AUD y should he make in order to maintain a similar lifestyle?)

At any rate, both cities are as expensive as crap.

http://www.mercer.com/costoflivingpr
http://www.corrispondenti.net/documenti/EIU-WCOL-Mar09EU.doc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities_for_expatriate_employees

 

[JanikeyDoc]

There are two surveys that are used as the gold standard for cost of living.

The 2009 Mercer survey puts Sydney and Boston about equally expensive for expats. However, the survey was apparently done when the AUD took a plunge briefly (as Mercer points out), and for 2008 Sydney was ranked much costlier while Boston much less so, so if the survey were done today Sydney would likely again be around 15th to Boston's ~60th (i.e., again ranked significantly more expensive).

The Economist's cost-of-living table for expats from 2009 put Sydney a little less costly (35th) than Boston (49th), while Sydney was relatively much costlier last year (17th vs. 77th) -- the earlier lower cost of Sydney presumably due to the same dip in Australian currency. The Economist's table doesn't count rent, while Mercer does.

Cost of living comparisons are wrought with problems though (e.g., whose dollar should be the comparison?? Economist's is the USD) and the above should be taken for what they are -- rankings which reflect cost indices calculated to allow companies to give meaningful salary adjustments to employees living abroad (e.g., if employee makes USD x, what AUD y should he make in order to maintain a similar lifestyle?)

At any rate, both cities are as expensive as crap.

http://www.mercer.com/costoflivingpr
http://www.corrispondenti.net/documenti/EIU-WCOL-Mar09EU.doc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities_for_expatriate_employees

I would say Sydney is a bit more expensive than Boston but definitely not as bad as the major cities of California, places like San Diego, SF, and LA have areas that are off the charts in terms of cost. I travel to California regularly and know first hand that its one of the most expensive states in the US, only NYC and South Florida are similarly pricey. If you really think Sydney is expensive you got to visit Moscow, that city is off the charts expensive. Businessweek has a listing of world's most expensive cities and Sydney is not on the list, the Asian cities mentioned the most are Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Tokyo. A lot of Japanese I meet in Sydney live there because its actually cheaper than Japan. Quite a few European cities were on the list and it included London, Paris, Olso, and Berlin. Australia has got a different way of life, and from my perspective its better than the United States and Canada by a large margin. The west Coast of the US is the only place I see myself living in and maintaining my sanity. Those North Americans who really think the US/Canada has a better material standard of living than Australia will soon be in for a rude awakening, I am from Miami which these days looks like third world Latin America more than the US, the next decade is going to see a rapid deterioration of the US standard of living, the credit crisis is far from over and only starting to get worse, just wait until next year, if you though 2009 was bad, 2010 is going to be a rough year for the US.

 

[pitman]

I would say Sydney is a bit more expensive than Boston but definitely not as bad as the major cities of California, places like San Diego, SF, and LA have areas that are off the charts in terms of cost.

But every city has more expensive areas, and less. The only thing that can be discussed meaningfully is the average prices (or median, if known).

I don't know Business Week's methodology, but the point of the Mercer and Economist's tables are to systematically and quantitatively give real comparisons, and thus why they're used by corporations for compensation adjustments.

I think an example is a good illustration here. If we take last year's Economist table (since the AUD's value then was closer to it is right now), then (and I think I'm reading the table correctly, but correct me if not) Sydney costs 116/83 = 1.4 times as much as Boston, not including rent. Now Boston as a city is one of the most expensive in the States, but it also has some of the highest rent prices.

At any rate, what can be said of the 1.4 factor for Sydney living? If you were to live off of the USD (e.g., you're a student getting money from the US), then Sydney is way more expensive (40% more). On the other hand, if you're an intern in Sydney, you'd be making more money, and working fewer hours, than if you were in Boston. I'd welcome a good calculation for Boston, but take-home pay in Australia (Brisbane and NSW are not too dissimilar) is around $55k per year, working an ~55 hour week. So I think one would find that the higher cost of living in Sydney is seriously mitigated by the difference in pay, once you've graduated.

As to the US economy...doom and gloom scenarious are usually wrong, and the US' economic standing in the world isn't going to change much over the next few decades. Pointing out debt problems with the US also isn't unique -- Australia has just set itself up to be in serious debt for the next decade. The US economy is also recovering, aside from unemployment rates, but that, too is not unique.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

But every city has more expensive areas, and less. The only thing that can be discussed meaningfully is the average prices (or median, if known).

I don't know Business Week's methodology, but the point of the Mercer and Economist's tables are to systematically and quantitatively give real comparisons, and thus why they're used by corporations for compensation adjustments.

I think an example is a good illustration here. If we take last year's Economist table (since the AUD's value then was closer to it is right now), then (and I think I'm reading the table correctly, but correct me if not) Sydney costs 116/83 = 1.4 times as much as Boston, not including rent. Now Boston as a city is one of the most expensive in the States, but it also has some of the highest rent prices.

At any rate, what can be said of the 1.4 factor for Sydney living? If you were to live off of the USD (e.g., you're a student getting money from the US), then Sydney is way more expensive (40% more). On the other hand, if you're an intern in Sydney, you'd be making more money, and working fewer hours, than if you were in Boston. I'd welcome a good calculation for Boston, but take-home pay in Australia (Brisbane and NSW are not too dissimilar) is around $55k per year, working an ~55 hour week. So I think one would find that the higher cost of living in Sydney is seriously mitigated by the difference in pay, once you've graduated.

As to the US economy...doom and gloom scenarious are usually wrong, and the US' economic standing in the world isn't going to change much over the next few decades. Pointing out debt problems with the US also isn't unique -- Australia has just set itself up to be in serious debt for the next decade. The US economy is also recovering, aside from unemployment rates, but that, too is not unique.

I doubt you have not been in the US recently, I have, and the state of the country is shocking, even with the stimulus the US unemployment rate is over 10 percent. Recovery???!!! Not really the economy only experienced growth because of the massive stimulus cash Obama let loose but other countries are experiencing more sustainable growth, particularly Asia, and even Europe with its strong Euro. For the first time ever, Europe is experiencing lower joblessness than the USA, that has never happened during my lifetime until now, even the picture of Australia vis a vis the USA looks so different from the 1990s when things were the other way around. Australia is in a far better position than the US since it can capitalize on Asia, growth prospects for the US will be very mixed. The USA's economic standing in the world is highly dependent upon the US Dollar as the exclusive world reserve currency, already an international effort is underway to replace the Dollar as the primary medium of global trade with a basket of currencies, the Euro is on new kid on the block that is gaining acceptance around the world, I bet Yuan is the next major currency to go up like a rocket against the Greenback. When the dust settles, the US will relinquish its position as the world's top economy, the damage done to the US financial system is unprecedented and the worse in 1929. I have friends who work in banking in London, and the big deals they do are coming out of China, India, Russia, and Brazil, not much talk about the US among these guys. Australia is experiencing low unemployment, surging demand from Asia which will keep the country "padded" for decades, the Aussie has gone up in value thanks to surging commodity prices and the RBA. Australia, like Russia, Brazil, and Canada are poised to experience healthy growth because of their resources industries, in fact, there is almost now way they cannot grow due to surging demand for resources because of Asia. The US is losing to the rising Asian giants, also add in the EU, which is becoming an increasingly formidable trading bloc, the US does not look so special. I stand by my belief that the Dollar is going to continue to drop in value for the next decade, the only thing that will reverse the trend is if the Federal Reserve and Government begin tightening monetary policy such as raising interest rates and curbing spending, and I do not see this happening for a very long time. especially with all the big plans Obama has in store.

So Pitman, are you completing your residency in Australia or in the States?

 

[pitman]

I doubt you have not been in the US recently,

Assuming you meant the negative of the above, you'd not be right. Why in the world would someone be presumptuous so?

Lots of people have been waiting for their impending US decline -- since the early '50s during the very unpopular Korean War (incidentally, when the Australian dollar was worth more than the USD), during the oil embargo of the '70s, and, most reasonably of course, since that REALLY big financial crash of the '20s.

And your London friends to my Wall Street days...touche!

We have different rationale and different anecdotes, JanikeyDoc, so I think we just have to agree to disagree for now -- we can come back to this discussion in a year or two when our opinions on this matter might be falsifyable.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

Assuming you meant the negative of the above, you'd not be right. Why in the world would someone be presumptuous so?

Lots of people have been waiting for their impending US decline -- since the early '50s during the very unpopular Korean War (incidentally, when the Australian dollar was worth more than the USD), during the oil embargo of the '70s, and, most reasonably of course, since that REALLY big financial crash of the '20s.

And your London friends to my Wall Street days...touche!

We have different rationale and different anecdotes, JanikeyDoc, so I think we just have to agree to disagree for now -- we can come back to this discussion in a year or two when our opinions on this matter might be falsifyable.

The US was in no danger of declining in the 50s, but today there is a genuine chance that it will. With our current President, and his spending binge, he is looking to get more foreign debt to pay for his programs like Helath Reform. London has become the major financial center of the world, replacing NY, my friends deal with billions of dollars, more deals are done there than on Wall Street and its been like that for several years but now its even more so. If you look at the US economy, the Dow and Wall Street banks are only making money because of overseas profits, not because the US economy is really recovering, check the balance sheets of the Dow components much of their income is coming from outside the US, the same with the big investment banks. A year from now I will be right, two years from now I will look like Nostradamus, when the next big financial crisis hits. I seriously doubt we will see any improvement in the US economy in 2010, no one is seeing this, and most of the "improvement" this year is because of stimulus money. The only politician last year who could fix this was Dr. Paul and he was unelectable due to some comments he made about certain groups.


I was all over the US this year and I can tell you the economy of the US is in the pits, maybe in a few coastal cities things are better but in the heartland states and much of rust belt, things are in the toilet. Boston, NY, and California are not representative of America, places like Detroit and Pittsburgh represent the US better.

You saw the way he bowed over to the Emperor of Japan? No US leader before Obama did that. And he pretty much kept his mouth shut about China's human rights abuses because he was basically begging for money from them. In the 50s we never begged for money from no one, they begged from us.

 

[Transition]

The US was in no danger of declining in the 50s, but today there is a genuine chance that it will. With our current President, and his spending binge, he is looking to get more foreign debt to pay for his programs like Helath Reform. London has become the major financial center of the world, replacing NY, my friends deal with billions of dollars, more deals are done there than on Wall Street and its been like that for several years but now its even more so. If you look at the US economy, the Dow and Wall Street banks are only making money because of overseas profits, not because the US economy is really recovering, check the balance sheets of the Dow components much of their income is coming from outside the US, the same with the big investment banks. A year from now I will be right, two years from now I will look like Nostradamus, when the next big financial crisis hits. I seriously doubt we will see any improvement in the US economy in 2010, no one is seeing this, and most of the "improvement" this year is because of stimulus money. The only politician last year who could fix this was Dr. Paul and he was unelectable due to some comments he made about certain groups.


I was all over the US this year and I can tell you the economy of the US is in the pits, maybe in a few coastal cities things are better but in the heartland states and much of rust belt, things are in the toilet. Boston, NY, and California are not representative of America, places like Detroit and Pittsburgh represent the US better.

You saw the way he bowed over to the Emperor of Japan? No US leader before Obama did that. And he pretty much kept his mouth shut about China's human rights abuses because he was basically begging for money from them. In the 50s we never begged for money from no one, they begged from us.

Once, in Cambodia, I saw a monkey that was purple. Therefore, all monkeys are purple.

Oh, and I have a rock that keeps tigers away. There aren't any tigers where I live, so the rock has to be working. You want to buy it janikey? I'll sell it for only $30! Offer won't last long!

 

[JanikeyDoc]

Once, in Cambodia, I saw a monkey that was purple. Therefore, all monkeys are purple.

Oh, and I have a rock that keeps tigers away. There aren't any tigers where I live, so the rock has to be working. You want to buy it janikey? I'll sell it for only $30! Offer won't last long!

Well I made myself quite a bit of money betting that the US Dollar will decline and so far its paying off €€€€€, the real currency, not the crumbling $. You are obviously in lalal land about the US economy, I travel to the States about a dozen times a year, I grew up near Detroit, motor city, lived in over a dozen US states before moving overseas in 1999, the US economy is in complete shambles and Obama is a miserable failure, just look at his approvate rating which is only a little bit over 50 percent. Even Bush managed to keep an over 80 percent approval rate in his first year as President, at this rate, Obama will be even more hated than Bush. And anyway with regard to Australia, the current leader of the country is pushing aggresively to make Australia "Asian". Why? Because food will be on Aussie tables because of China and Asia's hunger for Aussie resources. Just because I think Obummer sucks does not mean I am a Republican, I know better, both parties suck. Having been here for over two years I got used to the idea that many Aussies do not think much of America, and frankly having the opportunity to compare both countries, I am not a least bit surprised.

 

[Transition]

Well I made myself quite a bit of money betting that the US Dollar will decline and so far its paying off €€€€€, the real currency, not the crumbling $. You are obviously in lalal land about the US economy, I travel to the States about a dozen times a year, I grew up near Detroit, motor city, lived in over a dozen US states before moving overseas in 1999, the US economy is in complete shambles and Obama is a miserable failure, just look at his approvate rating which is only a little bit over 50 percent. Even Bush managed to keep an over 80 percent approval rate in his first year as President, at this rate, Obama will be even more hated than Bush. And anyway with regard to Australia, the current leader of the country is pushing aggresively to make Australia "Asian". Why? Because food will be on Aussie tables because of China and Asia's hunger for Aussie resources. Just because I think Obummer sucks does not mean I am a Republican, I know better, both parties suck. Having been here for over two years I got used to the idea that many Aussies do not think much of America, and frankly having the opportunity to compare both countries, I am not a least bit surprised.

I don't think you got my joke...

 

[JanikeyDoc]

I don't think you got my joke...

Well excuse you, I don't have a sense of humor. But what I said about American decline is now being reiterated around the world its not anectdotal, read the NIE report that was given to Obama, it was written by the CIA, even Obama himself knows it, remember he said the "center of gravity" is changing in the world?

 

[Transition]

Well excuse you, I don't have a sense of humor. But what I said about American decline is now being reiterated around the world its not anectdotal, read the NIE report that was given to Obama, it was written by the CIA, even Obama himself knows it, remember he said the "center of gravity" is changing in the world?

Yeah, you didn't get it. What I meant was that you are always exaggerating points and shouting and screaming things with few sources or evidence. Your information is almost always anecdotal and, when it isn't (eg. you say there's an NIE report and even obama 'knows it'), you don't provide references. For all we know, your supposed claims are nothing more than cynical rants and that's how many seem to perceive you.

Your flip-flops are incredulous. Just a month ago, you kept speaking about how horrible Australia is and how it's so racist and the 'women are nothing like in the US' (which has NOTHING to do with medicine, which is the whole point of SDN) and now you're doing nothing but bad-mouthing the US and praising Australia. Your stances are so polarized that it's difficult to take anything you say seriously. There is such thing as a middle ground and, whereas we all know the US is not doing very well, it also has some of the greatest minds, largest resources and most innovative technology/programs in the world. Yes, the US is bad in some respects, but in others, it is brilliant. It isn't going anywhere and the world isn't coming to an end. Instead, we are witnessing a balancing of power amongst the world's elite countries. Yes, China is coming up, but it will not take over the US as you are implying.

And this brings me to the most vital point that I haven't seen anyone ask you yet. Why ARE you here? You're not a medical student, neither in the US or in Aus and the information you provide is often not helpful and bordering on troll-ish. Are you applying to medicine? Are you working in a healthcare field? I'm not asking out of condescension, I'm just curious what the purpose of your posts are?

 

[pitman]

Yes, China is coming up, but it will not take over the US as you are implying.

Unless they attack Taiwan and somehow win the resulting WWIII.

 

[Knockout Mouse]

Trying to get the thread back on topic.

I'm currently an American at USyd. I've averaged about USD$ 70000 per year.
That includes tuition, rent and all living expenses. In the last two years exchange rates have fluctuated wildly. I expect that the AUS$ will be close to parity with the US$ for the immediate future, and you should budget accordingly. I live pretty good, so if I really tightened my belt I could shave another $10000/yr off, maybe.
The point is Australia is a very expensive place to go to school. Hope that gives future students some kind of guideline in making decisions.

 

[jaketheory]

And this brings me to the most vital point that I haven't seen anyone ask you yet. Why ARE you here? You're not a medical student, neither in the US or in Aus and the information you provide is often not helpful and bordering on troll-ish. Are you applying to medicine? Are you working in a healthcare field? I'm not asking out of condescension, I'm just curious what the purpose of your posts are?

transition, i did ask him that a while back. when you bring up questions like that he just ignored them, thus we never got that answer. but now he has been banned. watch out for a troll resurection.

 

[shan564]

Trying to get the thread back on topic.

I'm currently an American at USyd. I've averaged about USD$ 70000 per year.
That includes tuition, rent and all living expenses. In the last two years exchange rates have fluctuated wildly. I expect that the AUS$ will be close to parity with the US$ for the immediate future, and you should budget accordingly. I live pretty good, so if I really tightened my belt I could shave another $10000/yr off, maybe.
The point is Australia is a very expensive place to go to school. Hope that gives future students some kind of guideline in making decisions.

$70,000 seems pretty reasonable. I think I spent about $50k USD here in my first year, but the exchange rate was pretty good when I transferred my first big chunk.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

$70,000 seems pretty reasonable..

per year?

...you people are crazy.


Are you from North America?

So that is about 300k USD? You'll prob have to defer most payments through postgrad traing.. No? With capitilized interest.. I would assume that would end up being about half a million dollars for a med degree? ... Is it worth it? I thought US doctors were going to expect a pay drop too with their new health system.. And they are more likely to get sued and have to pay heaps in malpractice. I wonder if we'll still see Americans coming to med school here if they have to go into that much debt and have more trouble paying it off.

Plus from my understanding.. America is the only country in the world that doesn't allow student loans to be discharged if you file for bankruptcy. Sounds pretty scary if you ask me.

 

[Raigon]

Unless they attack Taiwan and somehow win the resulting WWIII.

Of course they'd win if they attack. They've got nukes and over a billion people. We've got a screwed up missile system located in the middle of nowhere and 20 million people. All China has to do is get one person each to fart and they'll blow us away.

$70,000 seems pretty reasonable. I think I spent about $50k USD here in my first year, but the exchange rate was pretty good when I transferred my first big chunk.

Oh my God... 70,000 dollars??? Even if it covers both tuition fees, living expenses, and such... If that's what i'm expecting... student loans... OH GOD how the hell am I going to get all that money from student loans? Fed loans will cover like.... how much? 40, 50K? If I get a job, like... 20 hours a week, how the hell will I study for the USMLE? or... can fed loans cover more?

Even suppose I make 300K a year.... there's still residency for 1~2 years before I start getting a bit of money. I'll hate to ask my parents for money when they've already supported me for 21 years. Gosh, I'm supposed to have a job already, and with my part time job right now in Taiwan, I make like... what 5K a year?

To the people at U. Sydney - How do you manage it?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Even suppose I make 300K a year.... there's still residency for 1~2 years before I start getting a bit of money.

...more like 4-8 years my friend.

 

[Raigon]

...more like 4-8 years my friend.

@@... f*ck. I didn't know that. ==" Or was I thinking of something else like clinical rotations?

Dr.Millisevert did you pay off your student loans?

 

[pitman]

You may have been thinking 1-2 years (internship + 1 year of RMO) before getting into (becoming 'register'ed in) a specialty college, then 2-6+ years of registrar training towards a specialty.

But money's pretty good along the way (takehome starting around $55k), and if you do locum work after 2nd year out, you can make $120+ an hour, either exclusively (though this puts off your specialty training), or on your days off (RMOs typically do 50-60 hours per week). Over the xmas holiday season this year, mucho emergency depts in NSW are offering $140/hr to locum RMOs, and in pretty decent locations.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Dr.Millisevert did you pay off your student loans?

I'm a local student mate.. I had HECS. When I graduated I owed a grand total of about 40k AUD.. Or (at that time was about 32kUSD). Our gov has an income based repayment system with little to no interest. I've already paid off my education.

I just feel sorry for you Americans... Seems you guys get a pretty rotten deal if you ask me.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

You may have been thinking 1-2 years (internship + 1 year of RMO) before getting into (becoming 'register'ed in) a specialty college, then 2-6+ years of registrar training towards a specialty.

But money's pretty good along the way (takehome starting around $55k), and if you do locum work after 2nd year out, you can make $120+ an hour, either exclusively (though this puts off your specialty training), or on your days off (RMOs typically do 50-60 hours per week). Over the xmas holiday season this year, mucho emergency depts in NSW are offering $140/hr to locum RMOs, and in pretty decent locations.

Yeah... But that is if he was staying in Aus.. The OP said he wanted to train and work in the US.. So he can more likely expect a flat salary of 35kUSD/yr for the first 4-5 years postgraduation from med school. Not to mention working longer hours..

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

@@... f*ck. I didn't know that. ==" Or was I thinking of something else like clinical rotations?

clinical rotations = last 2-3 years of med school...

Residency/registrar training = internship + postgraduate specialty training.

Even if you want to be a GP/FP in the states or Aus you will need to complete at least 3-5 years of postgraduate training at min.

 

[Raigon]

clinical rotations = last 2-3 years of med school...

Residency/registrar training = internship + postgraduate specialty training.

Even if you want to be a GP/FP in the states or Aus you will need to complete at least 3-5 years of postgraduate training at min.

Agh... I knew being a doctor was going to put you in debt for at least 10 years. Damn it.

I'm interested in emergency medicine and surgery. How many years do you need?

I think Australia's a great country. If I didn't have family there or good memories in the United States or the fact that Australia's facing water shortages, I'd live there. It's my 2nd choice after the United States. If I can't practice medicine in the United States, I'll probably practice in Australia.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Agh... I knew being a doctor was going to put you in debt for at least 10 years. Damn it.

I'm interested in emergency medicine and surgery. How many years do you need?

I think Australia's a great country. If I didn't have family there or good memories in the United States or the fact that Australia's facing water shortages, I'd live there. It's my 2nd choice after the United States. If I can't practice medicine in the United States, I'll probably practice in Australia.

General Surgery: 5-6 years

Emergency Medicine: 3-5 years

 

[Raigon]

General Surgery: 5-6 years

Emergency Medicine: 3-5 years

Does the average doctor make more money per year in Australia than America?

And are doctors in Australia less likely sued than in America?

 

[Transition]

Of course they'd win if they attack. They've got nukes and over a billion people. We've got a screwed up missile system located in the middle of nowhere and 20 million people. All China has to do is get one person each to fart and they'll blow us away.



Oh my God... 70,000 dollars??? Even if it covers both tuition fees, living expenses, and such... If that's what i'm expecting... student loans... OH GOD how the hell am I going to get all that money from student loans? Fed loans will cover like.... how much? 40, 50K? If I get a job, like... 20 hours a week, how the hell will I study for the USMLE? or... can fed loans cover more?

Even suppose I make 300K a year.... there's still residency for 1~2 years before I start getting a bit of money. I'll hate to ask my parents for money when they've already supported me for 21 years. Gosh, I'm supposed to have a job already, and with my part time job right now in Taiwan, I make like... what 5K a year?

To the people at U. Sydney - How do you manage it?

The numbers you're quoting are off for current-entry USyd students. Right now, the tuition is ~$66K/year (and growing) + living/books/travel. You're looking at at least $80K/year AUD and that's if you're conservative. This is the one biggest reason I didn't go to USyd... it's simply not feasible for those without very well off parents. Banks will give you up to $150K, but they will not go over that. Add on government loans and the best I've been able to get is $180K. Mind you, Flinders tuition is $43/year AUD. So it's must lower than USyd (this is why I'm going to Flinders... along with better internship chances, but that's for another topic).

If you want to go back to the US to practice, go the Carib. They will teach you specifically for the USMLE and you will get all your clinicals in the US. Plus, it will be significantly cheaper than going to USyd. Also, with your current marks/grades, you may be able to get one of those SGU scholarships.

In all honesty Raigon, I think you need to do more research on your own. It does not appear that you have clearly sat down and thought through what will be required of you with respect to finances, time commitment, etc. Yes, being a doctor can be a dream, but you need to look into feasibility. I highly highly recommend you go to that posting I told you about (Australian Medical Schools) in my blog and go to each of the schools' websites. Also, there's a post about getting loans. Read those and try to get answers from the horses mouth before trusting what people here post (not that what's been posted thus far has been incorrect - just get it from the source to be 100% sure).

As for residencies. The way it works in Aus is you do a 1-2 year internship after medical school (paid) and then apply to a specialty college for a 3-7 year residency (FM on the low end, surg, etc on the high end, also paid). The pay for these training programs is good and after your internship, you can do locum work which can be quite lucrative. The debt will be staggering, but it's not impossible. Your biggest concern should be getting the loans in the first place, though.

 

[AcerExtensa]

The numbers you're quoting are off for current-entry USyd students. Right now, the tuition is ~$66K/year (and growing) + living/books/travel. You're looking at at least $80K/year AUD and that's if you're conservative.

I assume you mean tuition for 2010? the fee is AUD 56,400, NOT ~$66K.
http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/futurestudent/applicant/internat/fees.php
So 70K/year with everything included is a fair estimate, albeit on the generous side.

The med fac has an international scholarship program but max one can get is 10K/year towards tuition.
http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/futurestudent/applicant/internat/scholarships.php

 

[Transition]

I assume you mean tuition for 2010? the fee is AUD 56,400, NOT ~$66K.
http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/futurestudent/applicant/internat/fees.php
So 70K/year with everything included is a fair estimate, albeit on the generous side.

The med fac has an international scholarship program but max one can get is 10K/year towards tuition.
http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/futurestudent/applicant/internat/scholarships.php

Shoot, you're right. Sorry about that. I got confused between USyd and UQ/Ochsner.

I stand corrected!

 

[Raigon]

The numbers you're quoting are off for current-entry USyd students. Right now, the tuition is ~$66K/year (and growing) + living/books/travel. You're looking at at least $80K/year AUD and that's if you're conservative. This is the one biggest reason I didn't go to USyd... it's simply not feasible for those without very well off parents. Banks will give you up to $150K, but they will not go over that. Add on government loans and the best I've been able to get is $180K. Mind you, Flinders tuition is $43/year AUD. So it's must lower than USyd (this is why I'm going to Flinders... along with better internship chances, but that's for another topic).

If you want to go back to the US to practice, go the Carib. They will teach you specifically for the USMLE and you will get all your clinicals in the US. Plus, it will be significantly cheaper than going to USyd. Also, with your current marks/grades, you may be able to get one of those SGU scholarships.

In all honesty Raigon, I think you need to do more research on your own. It does not appear that you have clearly sat down and thought through what will be required of you with respect to finances, time commitment, etc. Yes, being a doctor can be a dream, but you need to look into feasibility. I highly highly recommend you go to that posting I told you about (Australian Medical Schools) in my blog and go to each of the schools' websites. Also, there's a post about getting loans. Read those and try to get answers from the horses mouth before trusting what people here post (not that what's been posted thus far has been incorrect - just get it from the source to be 100% sure).

As for residencies. The way it works in Aus is you do a 1-2 year internship after medical school (paid) and then apply to a specialty college for a 3-7 year residency (FM on the low end, surg, etc on the high end, also paid). The pay for these training programs is good and after your internship, you can do locum work which can be quite lucrative. The debt will be staggering, but it's not impossible. Your biggest concern should be getting the loans in the first place, though.

If you mean the Dr. Polar Platypus blog, I already read it. It has Canada, Australia, but I'd like to return to the States if possible, but there has not been any entries from Australia back to USA. You said you'd add that entry like... months ago. And currently, getting into medical school is very near impossible. That's why I'm thinking of Australia if I seriously fail. I have thought about Caribbean Medical schools, but they are looked down upon for residency programs, no matter how well you perform, which is why I won't do it unless I have no other choice.

I understand the path to being a doctor. Otherwise I would've chosen another profession. I know the road is very long and hard, but I chose this over other professions because I want to be a doctor. I've always planned it since high school. Had it not been that my dad relocated to Taiwan, I would've generally entered college, go to premed, take the MCATs and apply for Medical School. Get loans, enroll, then take the USMLEs and then in the final year, take the NRMP. Get into a residency program, then do a further 3~5 year specialist training. Get the big bucks rolling in, then pay off student loans. So commitment? I've planned everything out since like... 6 or 7 years ago.

Too bad after my dad relocated to Taiwan during high school, there was a big change of plans. Now I'm forced to consider an alternate route.

And if I must go to Australia, I'm going for a medical school that US fed loans will loan you money: U Queensland, U Syd, and Flinders. Just not where where I'll get the loans for the extra money. U Syd has the best reputation amongst Australia meds, but it's expensive. Next would U Queensland with its new Oscher Program, but it's new and may not prepare you well for USMLE. Also, it's not AMC approved yet. Flinders, everyone says it's good, but there's no specifics - are their lectures even partially USMLE oriented? How well do their students do in the matching program in the US? Well, in the off route that I decide I love Australia, I'll stay there, with a permanent residence, and then apply for citizenship if possible. I'm NOT returning to Taiwan.

I've sent emails to their schools, got a few brochures, read through some. I emailed Flinders and they like me. They say with my 30Q and my 3.89 GPA I'm a solid candidate to be short listed for an interview.

Because I've found out after I submitted my AAMC application that most schools don't accept overseas degrees or coursework if you don't have at least 1 year of formal undergrad in the United States, I don't think I have much chance. So right now, planning alternate routes is essential. I've already narrowed it down to three: Australia, Caribbean, or Post-bacc in the United States from most preferred to least.

And now... the countdown to next may in the highly likely event I fail to make it to a medical school in the United States, Australia, here I come.

 

[Winged Scapula]

General Surgery: 5-6 years

Emergency Medicine: 3-5 years

In the US:

General Surgery 5-7 years +/- fellowship
Emergency Medicine: 3-4 years +/- fellowship

 

[shan564]

per year?

...you people are crazy.


Are you from North America?

When I said "reasonable", I meant "a reasonable estimate", not "a reasonable price." I should have specified.

Like I said, I spent about $50k this year on everything (including tuition fees). In my hometown of St. Louis, there are two med schools - St. Louis University and Washington University, each of which cost about $45k/year in tuition fees alone. I actually think it's cheaper for me to stay in Sydney, as long as you monitor the exchange rate and pick the right time to transfer your money.

The US federal loans cover something like $70k/year USD - $20k in Stafford, and $50k in PLUS.

 

[Raigon]

When I said "reasonable", I meant "a reasonable estimate", not "a reasonable price." I should have specified.

Like I said, I spent about $50k this year on everything (including tuition fees). In my hometown of St. Louis, there are two med schools - St. Louis University and Washington University, each of which cost about $45k/year in tuition fees alone. I actually think it's cheaper for me to stay in Sydney, as long as you monitor the exchange rate and pick the right time to transfer your money.

The US federal loans cover something like $70k/year USD - $20k in Stafford, and $50k in PLUS.

The thing is... medical schools will generally cost you up to 200K ~ 250K. After you have 3~4 years of residency, with very low pay. THEN you have to do post-graduate training for another 3~7 years in a specialty college without much pay either until you complete your training. Wow... so you're not going to get the big bucks until you're like 35 years old. Guess I'll rule out getting a girlfriend again, let alone marriage.

 

[jaketheory]

The thing is... medical schools will generally cost you up to 200K ~ 250K. After you have 3~4 years of residency, with very low pay. THEN you have to do post-graduate training for another 3~7 years in a specialty college without much pay either until you complete your training. Wow... so you're not going to get the big bucks until you're like 35 years old. Guess I'll rule out getting a girlfriend again, let alone marriage.

3~4 years for residency and then 3~7 years for post grad training? i think you have things confused. residency can be between 3 and 5 years, depending on specialyy, while most are 3 or 4 (general surgery is 5). you are then fully qualified to practice as a doctor independently and will make decent money. depending on what specialty you trained in, you can make big money. some will do a fellowship after residency which is generally between 1 and 3 years. some will even do multiple fellowships (for instance completing 2 consecutive 1 year fellowships). after completing a fellowship you are likely to experience a significant increase in pay though pay during fellowship is much less than a practicing Dr. Residents and fellows will usually earn somewhere between $38k and $58k depending on what year of training theyre at at (PGY-1 to PGY-7 or higher). but you could make $300k+ right out of fellowship depending on the specialty in which trained.

residency training IS postgrad training. you dont have to do fellowship after residency. in the US 'fellowship' is not required as it is in Aus. in aus you must qualify as a fellow of a specialist medical college in order to attract medicare rebates. these fellowships are not the same as fellowships in the US. when you complete a fellowship in the us you do not then become a fellow of a specialist college. those that have completed a residency or fellowship are eligible to sit the relevant specialist board exam. if they take that exam and pass they become board-certified in that specialty. being board-certified in the US is analagous to being a fellow of a specialist medical college in Aus. the terminology is different in different countries. dont let this confuse you. a clinical fellow in the US is a trainee in a subspecialty, 'fellowship', training program. in Aus such a trainee is called an advanced trainee registrar. they do not gernerally use the term clinical fellow in Aus for such trainees.

 

[Raigon]

3~4 years for residency and then 3~7 years for post grad training? i think you have things confused. residency can be between 3 and 5 years, depending on specialyy, while most are 3 or 4 (general surgery is 5). you are then fully qualified to practice as a doctor independently and will make decent money. depending on what specialty you trained in, you can make big money. some will do a fellowship after residency which is generally between 1 and 3 years. some will even do multiple fellowships (for instance completing 2 consecutive 1 year fellowships). after completing a fellowship you are likely to experience a significant increase in pay though pay during fellowship is much less than a practicing Dr. Residents and fellows will usually earn somewhere between $38k and $58k depending on what year of training theyre at at (PGY-1 to PGY-7 or higher). but you could make $300k+ right out of fellowship depending on the specialty in which trained.

residency training IS postgrad training. you dont have to do fellowship after residency. in the US 'fellowship' is not required as it is in Aus. in aus you must qualify as a fellow of a specialist medical college in order to attract medicare rebates. these fellowships are not the same as fellowships in the US. when you complete a fellowship in the us you do not then become a fellow of a specialist college. those that have completed a residency or fellowship are eligible to sit the relevant specialist board exam. if they take that exam and pass they become board-certified in that specialty. being board-certified in the US is analagous to being a fellow of a specialist medical college in Aus. the terminology is different in different countries. dont let this confuse you. a clinical fellow in the US is a trainee in a subspecialty, 'fellowship', training program. in Aus such a trainee is called an advanced trainee registrar. they do not gernerally use the term clinical fellow in Aus for such trainees.

Wow, guess I didn't do my research properly... =="

So, in America all I have to do is take a very nastingly exhausting difficult test to be board certified and then you'll have completed fellowship while in Australia you have to...

Wait, if you pass the board exams in America, are you considered a clinical fellow in Australia?

 

[jaketheory]

Wow, guess I didn't do my research properly... =="

So, in America all I have to do is take a very nastingly exhausting difficult test to be board certified and then you'll have completed fellowship while in Australia you have to...

Wait, if you pass the board exams in America, are you considered a clinical fellow in Australia?

i'm not sure if i follow. in the US you will have to take the USMLE to get a residency position (along with other criteria which residency programs use to assign preferences to applicants in the Match). the USMLE is considered an exhaustive test; where you can get a residency position will depend largely on your USMLE scores (among the other criteria). you can complete residency in minimum 3 years. once you have completed you can work as a fully qualified doctor. you can do further subspecialty training in a fellowship position if you want (and can get accepted).

in australia you will have to gain fellowship to a specialist medical college. do to so you will have to (after completing an Australian medical degree) a one year rotating internship followed by a minimum of 3 years additional training.

As i mentioned, the term clinical fellow is a US term used for medical subspecialty training. it is generally not used in Australia. thus taking a US board exam cant qualify you as an australian clinical fellow. if you become board certified in the US you could apply for specialist medical registration in Australia. your training in your specialty will be evaluated and if it is deemed comparable to a fellow of the relavent specialist medical college in Australia, you may be granted such registration, probably after a year of supervised practice. you would also be eligible for fellowship. of course you would have to acquire the appropriate visa to live and work in Aus as well.

hope this didnt confuse you more.

 

[Raigon]

i'm not sure if i follow. in the US you will have to take the USMLE to get a residency position (along with other criteria which residency programs use to assign preferences to applicants in the Match). the USMLE is considered an exhaustive test; where you can get a residency position will depend largely on your USMLE scores (among the other criteria). you can complete residency in minimum 3 years. once you have completed you can work as a fully qualified doctor. you can do further subspecialty training in a fellowship position if you want (and can get accepted).

in australia you will have to gain fellowship to a specialist medical college. do to so you will have to (after completing an Australian medical degree) a one year rotating internship followed by a minimum of 3 years additional training.

As i mentioned, the term clinical fellow is a US term used for medical subspecialty training. it is generally not used in Australia. thus taking a US board exam cant qualify you as an australian clinical fellow. if you become board certified in the US you could apply for specialist medical registration in Australia. your training in your specialty will be evaluated and if it is deemed comparable to a fellow of the relavent specialist medical college in Australia, you may be granted such registration, probably after a year of supervised practice. you would also be eligible for fellowship. of course you would have to acquire the appropriate visa to live and work in Aus as well.

hope this didnt confuse you more.

So basically, by the time I enter an Australian University, I'll have to choose between going to the US and sticking to it via USMLE, NRMP, and then residency + board exams, or staying in Australia: applying for PR/citizenship, 1~2 year internship, and then another 3~7 years of fellowship, but paid, right? Ugh... I think I'm going to have to reread that.

 

[jaketheory]

So basically, by the time I enter an Australian University, I'll have to choose between going to the US and sticking to it via USMLE, NRMP, and then residency + board exams, or staying in Australia: applying for PR/citizenship, 1~2 year internship, and then another 3~7 years of fellowship, but paid, right? Ugh... I think I'm going to have to reread that.

if you want to go to the US, you'd be best off by starting to prepare for the USMLE from year one but it doesnt mean you have to. so i wouldnt say you have to choose between the US or Australia by the time you enter an aussie uni.

to stay in aus you will likely have to do an internship, which is 1 year (not 1~2 years), before even being eligible for PR. you have to be fully registered as a medical practitioner to get a skilled visa a a medical practitioner and you can get full registration unless you do the internship or some other equivalent year of supervised training. but you could always do your internship, get PR and then go to the US for residency training. i think some others on the forum have this in mind. they will do their internship and PR so that after completing residency in the US they can come back to Aus.

 

[Raigon]

if you want to go to the US, you'd be best off by starting to prepare for the USMLE from year one but it doesnt mean you have to. so i wouldnt say you have to choose between the US or Australia by the time you enter an aussie uni.

to stay in aus you will likely have to do an internship, which is 1 year (not 1~2 years), before even being eligible for PR. you have to be fully registered as a medical practitioner to get a skilled visa a a medical practitioner and you can get full registration unless you do the internship or some other equivalent year of supervised training. but you could always do your internship, get PR and then go to the US for residency training. i think some others on the forum have this in mind. they will do their internship and PR so that after completing residency in the US they can come back to Aus.

I'm actually thinking of doing that. Complete 1 year Internship in Australia before going to the United States so I can have both options available.

But before that - how are the living expenses in Australia? How much to just grab a burger or eat at a local restaurant? How much for room/board? Dorms vs. rent? What jobs do international students like you and I get to support ourselves in a foreign country?

 

[Augustus]

I'm actually thinking of doing that. Complete 1 year Internship in Australia before going to the United States so I can have both options available.

But before that - how are the living expenses in Australia? How much to just grab a burger or eat at a local restaurant? How much for room/board? Dorms vs. rent? What jobs do international students like you and I get to support ourselves in a foreign country?

I don't have an exact figure for you but everything is a little more expensive there because their minimum wage is much higher.

The Australian Federal Minimum Wage is $14.31 compared to $8.55 in the United States.

 

[jaketheory]

I cannot give great info on cost to eat out as I try not to often. however, a veggie burger at hungry jack's (burger king) is $5, but its larger than a BK veggie burger in the US. I got a burrito at mad mex the other day for $9 but it was a pretty good size. I pay $230 rent and I share a 2 bed with one other person. but you can find cheaper, but as with most things, you tend to get what you pay for. I live in a pretty nice part of town, but I think most people in my area pay more in rent than I do.

I don't know how much dorm rates are. I don't think job oppurtunities are great. I'm a permanent resident in Aus and I'm not currently working (but I havent applied to any jobs either). even oppurtunities for full time employment don't look great. but then again it depends on your qualifications. most lab jobs are looking for people with honours degrees. coming from the US, we don't eve have honours degrees.

 

[Raigon]

I cannot give great info on cost to eat out as I try not to often. however, a veggie burger at hungry jack's (burger king) is $5, but its larger than a BK veggie burger in the US. I got a burrito at mad mex the other day for $9 but it was a pretty good size. I pay $230 rent and I share a 2 bed with one other person. but you can find cheaper, but as with most things, you tend to get what you pay for. I live in a pretty nice part of town, but I think most people in my area pay more in rent than I do.

I don’t know how much dorm rates are. I don’t think job oppurtunities are great. I'm a permanent resident in Aus and I'm not currently working (but I havent applied to any jobs either). even oppurtunities for full time employment don’t look great. but then again it depends on your qualifications. most lab jobs are looking for people with honours degrees. coming from the US, we don’t eve have honours degrees.

So, you applied for permanent residence in Australia before you went there? How did you do that? I want to apply for permanent residence there, too.

Eh...that means I'll have to get a job. Instead of just relying on student loans. But it's not as bad as I thought. Say I have to pay 55,000 tuition fee, and 5 dollars a meal for 365 days, 3 times a day = 5475 dollars. At 10 dollars, it'll be up to 11,950 dollars a year. So say food costs you about 5~10,000 dollars. We'll count its average to say... 7500. Suppose rent a month costs you 250 dollars: 12 of that would be 3000 dollars. We also have to pay for books, supplies, clothes, telephone/electric/heating/water bills. Suppose we add that up to 2000 a year. That would be 15,000 a year. Possibly even higher. Damn.

Wow, living in Sydney really is 70K!!! Will student loans really cover all of that? I'm not going to live off my parents as they may or may not cut me off financially if I don't make it to a US med school. Not giving up there yet, but hopes for foreign graduates w/o US undergraduate coursework applying to US meds look bleak. And that leaves Australia or bust.

Oh God. If I study in Australia, I'll have to apply for permanent residence. How do you apply for permanent residence without having even stepped foot in that country before?