Attention all useless administrators...

[RustedFox]

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[Zebra Hunter]

Slightly unrelated, but interesting anecdote: I went on a date with one of the new C-suite execs of one of the hospitals I work at the other day. Didn't know she was c-suite until after I had asked her out on a dating app. Within minutes of starting the date, she brought up ER holds and going on EMS diversion and how she always refuses EMS diversion requests at her prior job "because they don't work". My response was "what is your definition of 'doesn't work'?"

"Well, EMS can ignore a diversion request and everyone else will eventually just go on diversion."

"Well sure, but they typically don't ignore diversion requests unless there is a good reason, and if you don't go on diversion when necessary and everyone around you goes on diversion in a city of millions of people, you are going to set yourself up for a disaster situation."

"I've seen the numbers, it doesn't change anything?"

"You've seen what numbers? There is no way you are claiming that shutting down EMS traffic has no effect on patient volumes. From a boots on the ground perspective, the results are almost instantaneous when you are going from 10-15 new EMS patients an hour to 0."

"It doesn't shut down EMS traffic, but that's nice that y'all feel that it works."

"In our system, it effectively does outside of priority 1 patients and specific patient requests typically. And that's an aggressively condescending statement to an ER physician that's been doing this job for 7 years, and you just started doing yours 2 weeks ago."

"I did shadow the ER doctors I worked with at my last job, so I know what it looks like down in the ER when it's busy."

"Can we please just change the subject."

Amazingly she has been hitting me up for a second date. I might need to find a new job.

 

[RustedFox]

Slightly unrelated, but interesting anecdote: I went on a date with one of the new C-suite execs of one of the hospitals I work at the other day. Didn't know she was c-suite until after I had asked her out on a dating app. Within minutes of starting the date, she brought up ER holds and going on EMS diversion and how she always refuses EMS diversion requests at her prior job "because they don't work". My response was "what is your definition of 'doesn't work'?"

"Well, EMS can ignore a diversion request and everyone else will eventually just go on diversion."

"Well sure, but they typically don't ignore diversion requests unless there is a good reason, and if you don't go on diversion when necessary and everyone around you goes on diversion in a city of millions of people, you are going to set yourself up for a disaster situation."

"I've seen the numbers, it doesn't change anything?"

"You've seen what numbers? There is no way you are claiming that shutting down EMS traffic has no effect on patient volumes. From a boots on the ground perspective, the results are almost instantaneous when you are going from 10-15 new EMS patients an hour to 0."

"It doesn't shut down EMS traffic, but that's nice that y'all feel that it works."

"In our system, it effectively does outside of priority 1 patients and specific patient requests typically. And that's an aggressively condescending statement to an ER physician that's been doing this job for 7 years, and you just started doing yours 2 weeks ago."

"I did shadow the ER doctors I worked with at my last job, so I know what it looks like down in the ER when it's busy."

"Can we please just change the subject."

Amazingly she has been hitting me up for a second date. I might need to find a new job.

Jesus.
Going on diversion DOES WORK for the reasons that you mentioned (and I bolded/italicized above).
She sounds ostriched, move on.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Was she hot?

 

[RustedFox]

Was she hot?

Wouldn't matter to me. I couldn't stand being around someone so ostriched.

 

[Zebra Hunter]

Was she hot?

Yeah, but that only gets your foot in the door with me.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Slightly unrelated, but interesting anecdote: I went on a date with one of the new C-suite execs of one of the hospitals I work at the other day. Didn't know she was c-suite until after I had asked her out on a dating app. Within minutes of starting the date, she brought up ER holds and going on EMS diversion and how she always refuses EMS diversion requests at her prior job "because they don't work". My response was "what is your definition of 'doesn't work'?"

"Well, EMS can ignore a diversion request and everyone else will eventually just go on diversion."

"Well sure, but they typically don't ignore diversion requests unless there is a good reason, and if you don't go on diversion when necessary and everyone around you goes on diversion in a city of millions of people, you are going to set yourself up for a disaster situation."

"I've seen the numbers, it doesn't change anything?"

"You've seen what numbers? There is no way you are claiming that shutting down EMS traffic has no effect on patient volumes. From a boots on the ground perspective, the results are almost instantaneous when you are going from 10-15 new EMS patients an hour to 0."

"It doesn't shut down EMS traffic, but that's nice that y'all feel that it works."

"In our system, it effectively does outside of priority 1 patients and specific patient requests typically. And that's an aggressively condescending statement to an ER physician that's been doing this job for 7 years, and you just started doing yours 2 weeks ago."

"I did shadow the ER doctors I worked with at my last job, so I know what it looks like down in the ER when it's busy."

"Can we please just change the subject."

Amazingly she has been hitting me up for a second date. I might need to find a new job.

You gotta take one for the team and keep that one rolling for a while. Lol.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

You gotta take one for the team and keep that one rolling for a while. Lol.

Agreed this thread has potential but we definitely need it to keep going. Sorry OP

Personally I’m hoping she is some sort of mole that you can turn into a double agent

 

[RustedFox]

LOL @ "I know what it looks like down in the ER because I shadowed at my last job."

She knows, man. She KNOWS.

 

[Pudortu]

LOL @ "I know what it looks like down in the ER because I shadowed at my last job."

She knows, man. She KNOWS.

Must have been an NP

 

[RustedFox]

Must have been an NP

Had the same thought.

By the same blade, I've said this on here before:

"What we need now are Admin MLPs, so that admins can be marginalized and see how they eff everything up."

 

[RoyBasch]

Was she hot?

Asking the important questions here.

 

[Iamnew2]

Slightly unrelated, but interesting anecdote: I went on a date with one of the new C-suite execs of one of the hospitals I work at the other day. Didn't know she was c-suite until after I had asked her out on a dating app. Within minutes of starting the date, she brought up ER holds and going on EMS diversion and how she always refuses EMS diversion requests at her prior job "because they don't work". My response was "what is your definition of 'doesn't work'?"

"Well, EMS can ignore a diversion request and everyone else will eventually just go on diversion."

"Well sure, but they typically don't ignore diversion requests unless there is a good reason, and if you don't go on diversion when necessary and everyone around you goes on diversion in a city of millions of people, you are going to set yourself up for a disaster situation."

"I've seen the numbers, it doesn't change anything?"

"You've seen what numbers? There is no way you are claiming that shutting down EMS traffic has no effect on patient volumes. From a boots on the ground perspective, the results are almost instantaneous when you are going from 10-15 new EMS patients an hour to 0."

"It doesn't shut down EMS traffic, but that's nice that y'all feel that it works."

"In our system, it effectively does outside of priority 1 patients and specific patient requests typically. And that's an aggressively condescending statement to an ER physician that's been doing this job for 7 years, and you just started doing yours 2 weeks ago."

"I did shadow the ER doctors I worked with at my last job, so I know what it looks like down in the ER when it's busy."

"Can we please just change the subject."

Amazingly she has been hitting me up for a second date. I might need to find a new job.

Lol sorry it's funny and sad at the same time. You probably will need to find a new job, or go on a second date - which might need you eventually to you needing to find a new job regardless. But unfortunately this is the problem with non-MDs being in C-suite type jobs.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

I would marry her

Then show up at your ED with a tophat, monocle and cape while wrapping myself around her arm and cackle as I whip your former colleagues with my cane.

Don't stand on the fence, ignore her or go full evil

 

[CoolDoc1729]

At least she showed her true colors right away and didn’t waste 6 months of your life

 

[RuralEDDoc]

She’s right from a population health standpoint. Diversion doesn’t improve that. But it does give respite temporarily to a helplessly overwhelmed ED. Admin will never understand the stress of having a gross excess of patients that you are personally responsible for. They simply can’t understand it since they can’t live it.

 

[FutureInternist]

Wouldn't matter to me. I couldn't stand being around someone so ostriched.

Just “treat” her and street her 😏

 

[Interpolfanclub]

She’s right from a population health standpoint. Diversion doesn’t improve that. But it does give respite temporarily to a helplessly overwhelmed ED. Admin will never understand the stress of having a gross excess of patients that you are personally responsible for. They simply can’t understand it since they can’t live it.

Agree. The only people who really understand what we do, is us.

 

[thegenius]

Wouldn't matter to me. I couldn't stand being around someone so ostriched.

BULLSHIIT

If she was hot and put out, you would all over that like bees around honey.
NO F'ING WAY THAT ISN'T TRUE. And if you claim that is true, amigo, you don't have two dangling organs between your legs producing testosterone.

 

[allantois]

Slightly unrelated, but interesting anecdote: I went on a date with one of the new C-suite execs of one of the hospitals I work at the other day. Didn't know she was c-suite until after I had asked her out on a dating app. Within minutes of starting the date, she brought up ER holds and going on EMS diversion and how she always refuses EMS diversion requests at her prior job "because they don't work". My response was "what is your definition of 'doesn't work'?"

"Well, EMS can ignore a diversion request and everyone else will eventually just go on diversion."

"Well sure, but they typically don't ignore diversion requests unless there is a good reason, and if you don't go on diversion when necessary and everyone around you goes on diversion in a city of millions of people, you are going to set yourself up for a disaster situation."

"I've seen the numbers, it doesn't change anything?"

"You've seen what numbers? There is no way you are claiming that shutting down EMS traffic has no effect on patient volumes. From a boots on the ground perspective, the results are almost instantaneous when you are going from 10-15 new EMS patients an hour to 0."

"It doesn't shut down EMS traffic, but that's nice that y'all feel that it works."

"In our system, it effectively does outside of priority 1 patients and specific patient requests typically. And that's an aggressively condescending statement to an ER physician that's been doing this job for 7 years, and you just started doing yours 2 weeks ago."

"I did shadow the ER doctors I worked with at my last job, so I know what it looks like down in the ER when it's busy."

"Can we please just change the subject."

Amazingly she has been hitting me up for a second date. I might need to find a new job.

What do you know doc? She has an MBA after all

 

[BoardingDoc]

BULLSHIIT

If she was hot and put out, you would all over that like bees around honey.
NO F'ING WAY THAT ISN'T TRUE. And if you claim that is true, amigo, you don't have two dangling organs between your legs producing testosterone.

Can't tell if this was meant to be over the top joking, or if you are legitimately of the opinion that someone is less of a man for not wanting to have sex with a person who they find physically attractive but otherwise revolting.

If the former... cringey, but ok?
If the latter: maybe go check out the lounge and see if there are any freshmen over there that you can beat up and then stuff into a gym locker?

 

[NYEMMED]

Had the same thought.

By the same blade, I've said this on here before:

"What we need now are Admin MLPs, so that admins can be marginalized and see how they eff everything up."

I **** you not, I am resigning this morning.

Reason:
We were sent an email last night that the ED medical director is now a NPP.

Not working for that…

 

[RustedFox]

Can't tell if this was meant to be over the top joking, or if you are legitimately of the opinion that someone is less of a man for not wanting to have sex with a person who they find physically attractive but otherwise revolting.

If the former... cringey, but ok?
If the latter: maybe go check out the lounge and see if there are any freshmen over there that you can beat up and then stuff into a gym locker?

You've missed the tenor of his post altogether.

@thegenius Bro. I gotchu.

I'll say this: I have definitely ignored the phone calls of a model-caliber chick in undergrad because I couldn't stand to listen to her when she opened her mouth.

Granted, the 2nd date ended well. But there wasn't a third. I had *had* enough.

 

[RustedFox]

I **** you not, I am resigning this morning.

Reason:
We were sent an email last night that the ED medical director is now a NPP.

Not working for that…

I support this .

Eff that noise.

 

[Iamnew2]

I **** you not, I am resigning this morning.

Reason:
We were sent an email last night that the ED medical director is now a NPP.

Not working for that…

How is that possible

 

[NYEMMED]

How is that possible

Who knows. A lot of us were getting very irritated prior to this.

This was the last straw, I think they are about to lose almost all the docs. Maybe that will make them reconsider

 

[wholeheartedly]

Who knows. A lot of us were getting very irritated prior to this.

This was the last straw, I think they are about to lose almost all the docs. Maybe that will make them reconsider

Did any of the docs go for the position? If so, wow.

 

[NYEMMED]

Did any of the docs go for the position? If so, wow.

We had 2 docs interview as well.
We had 8 docs resign today, so far. Good luck to them!

 

[RustedFox]

We had 2 docs interview as well.
We had 8 docs resign today, so far. Good luck to them!

8 out of [X] ?

 

[Iamnew2]

We had 2 docs interview as well.
We had 8 docs resign today, so far. Good luck to them!

How can they make a "medical director" a midlevel? That makes no sense, particularly if physicians interviewed. How can they choose a midlevel - essentially a nurse - over a physician for a clinical role like this?

 

[southerndoc]

How can they make a "medical director" a midlevel? That makes no sense, particularly if physicians interviewed. How can they choose a midlevel - essentially a nurse - over a physician for a clinical role like this?

Maybe an ED director for nursing, but no way can a midlevel supervise a physician. There are state medical board regulations that dictate it must be the other way, and I'm sure having a midlevel being medical director (i.e., supervising the care that physicians provide and patients receive) runs afoul of these regulations.

@NYEMMED Have you contacted your state medical board about this?

 

[Iamnew2]

Maybe an ED director for nursing, but no way can a midlevel supervise a physician. There are state medical board regulations that dictate it must be the other way, and I'm sure having a midlevel being medical director (i.e., supervising the care that physicians provide and patients receive) runs afoul of these regulations.

@NYEMMED Have you contacted your state medical board about this?

Agreed. Admins unless called out frequently do shady things. I was previously a medical director at a facility (not in ED) where I would deny patients for not meeting admission criteria and the directive from corporate to the marketing director (who was a physical therapy assistant with an associate's degree!) was to have the Medicine team admit them regardless of lack of appropriateness. This is why directors should only be physicians.

 

[RustedFox]

I **** you not, I am resigning this morning.

Reason:
We were sent an email last night that the ED medical director is now a NPP.

Not working for that…

Still literally can't believe I read this.

Hours later.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Still literally can't believe I read this.

Hours later.

Agreed. I read the post this morning and did a quick WTF. I just reread this after working in the woodshop for a few hours, and I'm only increasingly incredulous. Maybe one of the techs in the ED should apply to be chief medical officer while they're at it.

 

[NYEMMED]

Maybe an ED director for nursing, but no way can a midlevel supervise a physician. There are state medical board regulations that dictate it must be the other way, and I'm sure having a midlevel being medical director (i.e., supervising the care that physicians provide and patients receive) runs afoul of these regulations.

@NYEMMED Have you contacted your state medical board about this?

I didn’t know about this. It’s a good idea!

Call these admins out on their ****

 

[NYEMMED]

8 out of [X] ?

20

 

[Pudortu]

20

What state are you in? How big of a practice? Do you work for a CMG? Are you allowed to tell us? Maybe you can give us vague details because this is crazy.

 

[NYEMMED]

What state are you in? How big of a practice? Do you work for a CMG? Are you allowed to tell us? Maybe you can give us vague details because this is crazy.

Southeast. 2 hospital system between Georgia and FL. Hospital employed

 

[wholeheartedly]

20

How many are on vacation or just haven’t heard about this yet? 🤨

 

[Apollyon]

I imagine locum rates will go through the roof for that hospital.

Well, it's not like the medical director can cover the shifts!

 

[RustedFox]

Well, it's not like the medical director can cover the shifts!

This is actually a brilliant tactic. You can all refuse to pick up any shifts, call-out on shifts, etc... then you can point out that it's the director's job to cover those shifts... Oh, waaait....

She’s right from a population health standpoint. Diversion doesn’t improve that. But it does give respite temporarily to a helplessly overwhelmed ED. Admin will never understand the stress of having a gross excess of patients that you are personally responsible for. They simply can’t understand it since they can’t live it.

[Politely sarcastic]: Yeah, but like - who caaares, maaan. Here's what you just said: "People aren't going to stop using ambulances to seek care, diversion doesn't improve that." Yeah, it won't stop a person from dialing 9-1-1 and getting into a rig. But our capacity to care for them is independent of that. She's not "right from a population health standpoint". She's still wrong. "Population health" isn't what we do in the ER.

 

[sylvanthus]

I **** you not, I am resigning this morning.

Reason:
We were sent an email last night that the ED medical director is now a NPP.

Not working for that…

Wtf man thats some crazy horsepuckey. I wish I could say im surprised, but ya, nothing surprised anymore. Medicine is fuked. Just gotta make it a few more years……

Oh and speaking of BS, why the balls do I have to recert in ACLS as a freakin triple boarded doc? What colossal stupidity is this? Debating not fillin out paperwork for a per diem job, its already such a waste of time. (procedure logs, acls atls pals bls certs, letters of rec, peer reference, 1st grade report card, letter from kindergarten teacher saying I play well with others,) Need anything else ya damn waste of space admin? Meanwhile a NONPHYSICIAN is taking over as med director but I have to take ACLS? WhAt?!!

/rant off

 

[RuralEDDoc]

[Politely sarcastic]: Yeah, but like - who caaares, maaan. Here's what you just said: "People aren't going to stop using ambulances to seek care, diversion doesn't improve that." Yeah, it won't stop a person from dialing 9-1-1 and getting into a rig. But our capacity to care for them is independent of that. She's not "right from a population health standpoint". She's still wrong. "Population health" isn't what we do in the ER.

I was trying to state the opposite. THEY (admin) argue population health or some vague business term. Any real emergency physician understands that we deal with individuals, not populations. One crummy shift at a time.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Wtf man thats some crazy horsepuckey. I wish I could say im surprised, but ya, nothing surprised anymore. Medicine is fuked. Just gotta make it a few more years……

Oh and speaking of BS, why the balls do I have to recert in ACLS as a freakin triple boarded doc? What colossal stupidity is this? Debating not fillin out paperwork for a per diem job, its already such a waste of time. (procedure logs, acls atls pals bls certs, letters of rec, peer reference, 1st grade report card, letter from kindergarten teacher saying I play well with others,) Need anything else ya damn waste of space admin? Meanwhile a NONPHYSICIAN is taking over as med director but I have to take ACLS? WhAt?!!

/rant off

When I started my Hospice & Palliative Medicine fellowship I was required to get BLS certified.

I asked, does it matter that I'm a BCEP? Nope.
Does it matter that I'm an ACLS Instructor in the very center that will test my BLS skills? Nope.
Does it matter that I'm doing a Hospice & Palliative Medicine fellowship and WONT BE CODING PEOPLE? Nope.

 

[southerndoc]

When I started my Hospice & Palliative Medicine fellowship I was required to get BLS certified.

I asked, does it matter that I'm a BCEP? Nope.
Does it matter that I'm an ACLS Instructor in the very center that will test my BLS skills? Nope.
Does it matter that I'm doing a Hospice & Palliative Medicine fellowship and WONT BE CODING PEOPLE? Nope.

Some people are hell bent in their rules.

 

[RustedFox]

I was trying to state the opposite. THEY (admin) argue population health or some vague business term. Any real emergency physician understands that we deal with individuals, not populations. One crummy shift at a time.

Precisely.
You've interpreted me correctly.
That's why my sarcasm was *polite*.

 

[Mount Asclepius]

I refused to submit BLS/ACLS/ATLS/PALS certification to a rural critical access hospital where I briefly wanted to work locums. I cited ACEP’s policy statement. The hospital dropped their policy of requiring for BC EM. I think they mainly wanted for physicians not boarded in EM. I suspect many outdated hospitals keep this requirement. I haven’t had those merit badge certifications in years. Continue to fight back against this antiquated position.

 

[NYEMMED]

I didn’t know about this. It’s a good idea!

Call these admins out on their ****

Update:

After 14 of the 20 physicians resigned, we got an email today that “in light of current events, and administrative challenges”

Long story short, they stopped the nonsense, promised to open the search again for a PHYSICIAN, and asked if we would all consider staying

 

[RustedFox]

Update:

After 14 of the 20 physicians resigned, we got an email today that “in light of current events, and administrative challenges”

Long story short, they stopped the nonsense, promised to open the search again for a PHYSICIAN, and asked if we would all consider staying

Bravo.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Update:

After 14 of the 20 physicians resigned, we got an email today that “in light of current events, and administrative challenges”

Long story short, they stopped the nonsense, promised to open the search again for a PHYSICIAN, and asked if we would all consider staying

I am honestly shocked you got 14 physicians to agree on something.