Ask a neurosurgery resident anything

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I was a night owl growing up. Now I am an early bird. For the most part, we become acclimated to our schedule with time. I find being more regimented and strict about it helps maintain. That is, rather than hitting snooze and sleeping in until the absolute last second, set an alarm and force yourself out of bed at that time every day. Some people sit and drink a cup of coffee and read while others take a longer shower or exercise. Whatever it may be, have something to do when you get out of bed so that you wake up. Likewise, on days off, sleep in a little bit, but don't sleeping until noon etc. After a couple of weeks your body will adjust to this. Be prepared to be exceptionally tired/fatigued throughout the days at first. This is normal both because you got less sleep than you planned for, and your body is making a physiological adjustment. It really should not be an issue, though, because in surgery we often take 28-hour call. A 18-20 hour day, by comparison, is far more tolerable. Finally, falling asleep is not as intuitive as it may seem. We as a society are glued to our screens. Practicing sleep hygiene helps immensely. Set a bed time, and perhaps even a routine, so you mentally know you are getting ready for sleep. Try not to look at screens for at least a half hour before you go to sleep. Do not use your bed for activities other than sleep (or sex). If you are unable to fall asleep after 20 minutes, get out of bed and sit quietly and read a book or do another soothing, quiet activity. If you absolutely must look at a screen after dusk, I recommend apps like red-shift or f.lux to take the blue light out of the screen. I've found these to help immensely in both reducing insomnia and increase quality of sleep.

Excellent advice, thanks so much!

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Hey neusu! This is an amazing thread and no doubt has been an invaluable resource for everybody who's been able to take a look at it. I was wondering if you had any knowledge or advice about the type of training or education required (or just that is helpful) to be a neurosurgeon working on BCI's. Is this something for which having a really technical background is required? It seems most of the neurosurgeons who I have seen working on this stuff didn't necessarily major in CS in college or have any postgraduate CS or engineering degrees. Are there any guys who work at your hospital who work on BCI's?
 
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Hey neusu! This is an amazing thread and no doubt has been an invaluable resource for everybody who's been able to take a look at it. I was wondering if you had any knowledge or advice about the type of training or education required (or just that is helpful) to be a neurosurgeon working on BCI's. Is this something for which having a really technical background is required? It seems most of the neurosurgeons who I have seen working on this stuff didn't necessarily major in CS in college or have any postgraduate CS or engineering degrees. Are there any guys who work at your hospital who work on BCI's?

The field of brain computer interfaces is very diverse. Globally, the devices can be split in to invasive and non-invasive with respect to how they interact with the brain. Surgeons tend to be more intimately involved in the latter. That is, we are the ones who places the interface for invasive brain devices. The level of involvement of the particular surgeon can range from simply a technician who places the device, to someone who is involved in the development of the implanted device or how it interacts with an output interface. As you can imagine, this field involves a plethora of experts from biomedical and electrical engineers to develop the hardware itself, to electrical and computing engineers or computer science or mathemeticians to process signals. Likewise, simply interfacing with the brain itself is hard enough, but having the interface do something is the ultimate goal e.g. move a cursor on a screen, a robotic arm, or sense light form the outside world and have the patient "see."

So really, anyone who has an interest in the field will likely find an area in which their particular interests are useful.
 
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I'm not in ns, but I've recently started seeing someone who's in his intern year of nsg residency. Our meetings seem sporadic and we barely communicate. Is it reasonable that he truly doesn't have time to talk on a regular basis? What can I expect in terms of dating this man?
 
I'm not in ns, but I've recently started seeing someone who's in his intern year of nsg residency. Our meetings seem sporadic and we barely communicate. Is it reasonable that he truly doesn't have time to talk on a regular basis? What can I expect in terms of dating this man?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
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I'm not in ns, but I've recently started seeing someone who's in his intern year of nsg residency. Our meetings seem sporadic and we barely communicate. Is it reasonable that he truly doesn't have time to talk on a regular basis? What can I expect in terms of dating this man?

Working 120 hours a week can do that to a man
 
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I'm not in ns, but I've recently started seeing someone who's in his intern year of nsg residency. Our meetings seem sporadic and we barely communicate. Is it reasonable that he truly doesn't have time to talk on a regular basis? What can I expect in terms of dating this man?
@neusu
 
I'm not in ns, but I've recently started seeing someone who's in his intern year of nsg residency. Our meetings seem sporadic and we barely communicate. Is it reasonable that he truly doesn't have time to talk on a regular basis? What can I expect in terms of dating this man?

What rotation is your friend on? If he is on service, he is likely to be very busy both in terms of time spent at the hospital as well as intensity of what he is doing. He has a lot to learn and not a lot of extra time to do so. Many of us cut back on self care things like maintaining relationships, exercise, and sleep when our stress and anxiety levels increase.

Indeed, intern year isn't even the worst of it. That comes next year, PGY 2. He may well be too busy to talk on a regular basis. Moreover, as I mentioned, he may be overwhelmed with everything else. Even simply engaging in outside work life is too daunting, thus the radio silence. Likewise, he may have time "off" with which he doesn't do much. The natural impulse, on a SO's part, is to expect some communication and involvement during this time. I certainly was guilty of this, but sometimes decompressing and doing nothing, not talking to anyone, or if necessary just minimal interactions to feign maintenance of relationships, is all I could muster.

Every person is different, and we all handle stress and challenges differently. This is likely the most intense endeavor he's undertaken, and is still adjusting. While I can't necessarily excuse his behavior, I certainly can relate to, and explain it. Burnout is a real thing and so subtle and gripping that before we know it, it's full-fledged taken hold.

Hope this helps
 
What rotation is your friend on? If he is on service, he is likely to be very busy both in terms of time spent at the hospital as well as intensity of what he is doing. He has a lot to learn and not a lot of extra time to do so. Many of us cut back on self care things like maintaining relationships, exercise, and sleep when our stress and anxiety levels increase.

Indeed, intern year isn't even the worst of it. That comes next year, PGY 2. He may well be too busy to talk on a regular basis. Moreover, as I mentioned, he may be overwhelmed with everything else. Even simply engaging in outside work life is too daunting, thus the radio silence. Likewise, he may have time "off" with which he doesn't do much. The natural impulse, on a SO's part, is to expect some communication and involvement during this time. I certainly was guilty of this, but sometimes decompressing and doing nothing, not talking to anyone, or if necessary just minimal interactions to feign maintenance of relationships, is all I could muster.

Every person is different, and we all handle stress and challenges differently. This is likely the most intense endeavor he's undertaken, and is still adjusting. While I can't necessarily excuse his behavior, I certainly can relate to, and explain it. Burnout is a real thing and so subtle and gripping that before we know it, it's full-fledged taken hold.

Hope this helps
Thank you for your response. He is on service and I know work has been super hectic...working 24’s sometimes and completely exhausted. I think I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and continue being patient with him for the foreseeable future.
 
This is a great thread. Thanks for doing this Neusu. I'm a 4th year med student at the tail end of the interview trail going into neurosurgery (hopefully). Anything you would recommend to read/study/do to get a leg up before diving into intern year? To be honest I feel pretty underprepared to assume the role of junior NS resident at this point, and it's pretty daunting. Everyone says "read Greenberg" but I find it very difficult to absorb a thousand page textbook that is basically in bullet point form. My approach is going to be to spend as much time in the ICU as I can over the next 6 months since this seems to be where the brunt of the junior resident responsibilities lie, and maybe try to get through a neurorads text and a neuro ICU text. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
 
I found Greenberg to be the most useful text as a junior resident. Much like medical school, residency is like drinking from the fire hose. Pre reading and trying to get a leg up accomplishes very little until you are actually in the heat of battle. In the interim, trying to understand insight in to what makes a good resident, and how you can foster those habits, might be the best way to invest your effort.

With respect to expanding your knowledge base, having some texts is useful. As mentioned, Greenberg is a good start. An operative atlas, anatomy book, radiology reference, and maybe icu would also be a good foundation. Ask your program if they have a resident book fund and wait until you start to buy some of these if they do.

Finally, boards come faster each year than you expect. You'll start taking them for practice in your PGY2 year. Having a cohesive study plan, to budget time outside of work, for board review, ensures you'll make progress and score well. Each program handles their passing requirements differently (e.g. the minimum percentile they accept to advance), but doing well on boards is never a bad thing.
 
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@neusu this thread is a real gem! You offer a really great perspective, especially for international students from developing countries with an interest in nsg (South Africa:smuggrin:).

Personal questions:
1. How old are you?
2. Since you started this thread have you had kids?
3. Would you get married considering how much neurosurgeons work?
4. Have you thought about what you plan on doing, when you are going retire from nsg?

5. Was curious about your opinions/thoughts on venturing the administrative/business side of nsg exploring things like health maintenance organization (HMO), preferred provider organization (PPO), (as hypothetically, let say a Neurosurg with 15+ years exp in academia/PP, with an MBA/MMM (Master of Medical Management)/MHA (Master of Health Administration)?

A lot of students see themselves as clinicians not administrators, I am curious as to what would be the role of "the physician-executive" in a field like neurosurgery/neurology?
 
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@neusu this thread is a real gem! You offer a really great perspective, especially for international students from developing countries with an interest in nsg (South Africa:smuggrin:).

Personal questions:
1. How old are you?
2. Since you started this thread have you had kids?
3. Would you get married considering how much neurosurgeons work?
4. Have you thought about what you plan on doing, when you are going retire from nsg?

5. Was curious about your opinions/thoughts on venturing the administrative/business side of nsg exploring things like health maintenance organization (HMO), preferred provider organization (PPO), (as hypothetically, let say a Neurosurg with 15+ years exp in academia/PP, with an MBA/MMM (Master of Medical Management)/MHA (Master of Health Administration)?

A lot of students see themselves as clinicians not administrators, I am curious as to what would be the role of "the physician-executive" in a field like neurosurgery/neurology?

1. I am in my 30s
2. Yes
3. Yes, see #2. Finding a spouse who is understanding of the lifestyle is important. Medicine in general is not a 9 - 5 job. Neurosurgery included.
4. I suppose I have not. I probably would continue doing what I do now in my free time, only more of it.
5. Medicine is changing, and becoming (or has become) a big business. While an extra degree is not necessary for those interested in moving in to administration, it can help . Most neurosurgeons are somewhat of clinician executives of their practice. Medical education, and medical school in particular, do a horrible job teaching us the business side of medicine. I recall explicitly asking our administration in medical school for a course on the business of medicine, or at a minimum, a lecture about it, but they said it would happen during residency. Residency often focuses on patient care and throughput within an academic medical center. There is no education on running a practice. While the days of doctors being small businessmen, essentially having an office with a small staff, are fading, understanding the dynamics within the hospital of where the money comes from, where it goes, and how to take more of it for yourself is important. I suspect a huge part of the latest fad of burnout is that doctors blindly follow their gut in to positions where they are boxed in and have a non-clinician manager dictating their practice to them, while skimming off the top for themselves. To that end, we have gone from intellectual/professional educated sole proprietors with a sense of ownership and direction in our careers to labor in a manner of 20 years.
 
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Any tips on making the rank list?

Rank lists are a tough subject. I recommend rating each program on a number of factors which you consider important (location, training, prestige, nearness to family, gut feeling, etc.). The way the match works, it is always in your best interest to put your top programs at the top of your list. Once you have a working draft, enter it in the NRMP website and certify. Ive heard too many sob stories of people who forgot to certify, or missed the deadline. Finally, do not rank a program you would not want to go to.
 
Any tips on making the rank list?
Rank lists are a tough subject. I recommend rating each program on a number of factors which you consider important (location, training, prestige, nearness to family, gut feeling, etc.). The way the match works, it is always in your best interest to put your top programs at the top of your list. Once you have a working draft, enter it in the NRMP website and certify. Ive heard too many sob stories of people who forgot to certify, or missed the deadline. Finally, do not rank a program you would not want to go to.

I will echo don't rank a place if you actually would hate being there. Ignore talk from program directors about ranking their program higher and #1 and just rank based on your preference. As Neusu said, figure out what factors you consider important and stratify programs based on those qualities. One thing I think you cannot overlook is residents per year, especially if the program is one a year or one-two. Those programs will, for the most part, take more primary call into higher PGY years making your life suck.
 
Hey Nesu, this is way off for me but I have been wondering about this for some time.

Is it possible to be in surgery if you have a chronic orthopedic condition like a back issue? I'v got a bilateral pars defect on my L5 that has caused me pain and some issues for a long time and am debating between a fusion and a spinal cord stimulator. opinions from my surgeons are split down the middle with slightly more saying fusion makes sense.

but im at a point where im not sure if i could get through medschool with my back the way it is now, and maybe with a spinal cord stimulator but who can say i havent tried it yet.

Probably couldn't do surgery if i didnt get my back taken care of, but do you see any surgical residents that have had stuff like fusions or those kinds of conditions? for me it would be one level.
 
Hey Nesu, this is way off for me but I have been wondering about this for some time.

Is it possible to be in surgery if you have a chronic orthopedic condition like a back issue? I'v got a bilateral pars defect on my L5 that has caused me pain and some issues for a long time and am debating between a fusion and a spinal cord stimulator. opinions from my surgeons are split down the middle with slightly more saying fusion makes sense.

but im at a point where im not sure if i could get through medschool with my back the way it is now, and maybe with a spinal cord stimulator but who can say i havent tried it yet.

Probably couldn't do surgery if i didnt get my back taken care of, but do you see any surgical residents that have had stuff like fusions or those kinds of conditions? for me it would be one level.

This is a tough question. Given the privacy laws, and most people being rather closed about their medical and surgical history, I suspect there are more than I know of out e there in medicine who have had spine surgery. Many/most residents I know have chronic aches and pains be it their back or neck, knees, feet, etc. The level of disability varies, but I'd be willing to bet you could go to any call room or work room for a neurosurgery residency and find ibuprofen and naproxen available.

For your particular story, if it's debilitating enough that you may not finish school, it certainly precludes neurosurgery. Having a surgery in itself isn't an issue. Whether it alleviates the pain, and you are able to function at the necessary level remains to be seen. I'd have to see your films and examine you in the office to give you my impression on the best course of management, but it sounds like you've met with the appropriate people and you are on the right track.
 
I'm not sure if this has been asked before so please direct me if it has.

I'm sure this is probably dependent on whether you do more elective or emergency operations but can you talk about post-op results of patients? I think I heard a neurosurgeon say his patients' 10-year survival rate was in the single digits.

This is more of an opinion question but would you say neuro is more of a prolonging length of life specialty opposed to a specialty like Orthopedics which is very "fix-it" based? And does that ever wear on you.

Lastly, I saw an interview with a neurosurgeon once and in his office he had a bunch of clocks patients gave him. So I'm curious have you received any clocks or any odds gifts from patients. Thanks in advance.
 
@neusu

how do you see neurosurgery changing in the coming (ie. 5, 10, 20, 30 etc) years given the progress of AI and machine learning?
Will that be competition in any way / lower surgery salary?

Thanks
 
I'm not sure if this has been asked before so please direct me if it has.

I'm sure this is probably dependent on whether you do more elective or emergency operations but can you talk about post-op results of patients? I think I heard a neurosurgeon say his patients' 10-year survival rate was in the single digits.

This is more of an opinion question but would you say neuro is more of a prolonging length of life specialty opposed to a specialty like Orthopedics which is very "fix-it" based? And does that ever wear on you.

Lastly, I saw an interview with a neurosurgeon once and in his office he had a bunch of clocks patients gave him. So I'm curious have you received any clocks or any odds gifts from patients. Thanks in advance.

A 10-year survival in the single digits is well worse than the average. This statistic really depends on the pathology being treated. There are many very successful procedures, and others, that are heroic and life-saving.

We have both life and limb saving, or life prolonging procedures, as well as quality improvement and fix-it surgeries. For the former, trauma or tumor surgeries seem to fit. The latter, elective spine or functional.

I have not received any clocks, though I have had some nice, sentimental gifts from patients.
 
@neusu

Recently there were some posts on neurosurgeryhub that seemed to imply that harassment, sabotage, and even physical abuse were common in neurosurgery residencies. One even went so far as to suggest that fist fights were not unusual. The prevailing attitude seemed to be that all this toughens up residents. On the other hand, there were others who said that sort of stuff is unusual and would not be tolerated by program directors. I'm not sure what to believe since that site has problems with trolling, but some of the things I read were disturbing. How much of this is fact, and how much is fiction?

One of the things that made me look into neurosurgery as a med student were my interactions with the neurosurgery residents. The ones I met were some of the most encouraging residents I have come across and they seemed like genuinely nice people. I'm not sure if I'm being shielded from the uglier side of things because I happened to meet an unusually nice group of residents. I think I could tolerate long hours and getting yelled at by difficult people for 7 years, but I question my ability to tolerate outright bullying on top of all that.
 
@neusu

how do you see neurosurgery changing in the coming (ie. 5, 10, 20, 30 etc) years given the progress of AI and machine learning?
Will that be competition in any way / lower surgery salary?

Thanks

This is a great question.

There are a lot of ways AI will influence medicine as a whole, and much of that may also influence the way we practice neurosurgery. Things like automated reading on imaging, EKG, and EEG will help with diagnostic interpretation. A smarter ICU will help guide clinicians as well. We are already using microscopes, endoscopes, and exoscopes as well as endovascular means in attempts to minimize the invasiveness of surgery. These will only get better with more experience, better technology, and time. Likewise, robotics will play an increasing role. In spine, for example, a robot will be able to use the 3D reconstructed image to guide pedicle screws, and AI may help with selecting both levels and length of the construct, as well as the trajectory to be taken.

As a field, we have been proactive about incorporating these modalities in to our practice, helping to develop them and find indications for their use. I don't suspect it will change the amount of surgery we do, nor the amount of surgeons needed. A surgeon's salary is a rather complex thing, but ultimately comes down to the relative value they provide.
 
@neusu

Recently there were some posts on neurosurgeryhub that seemed to imply that harassment, sabotage, and even physical abuse were common in neurosurgery residencies. One even went so far as to suggest that fist fights were not unusual. The prevailing attitude seemed to be that all this toughens up residents. On the other hand, there were others who said that sort of stuff is unusual and would not be tolerated by program directors. I'm not sure what to believe since that site has problems with trolling, but some of the things I read were disturbing. How much of this is fact, and how much is fiction?

One of the things that made me look into neurosurgery as a med student were my interactions with the neurosurgery residents. The ones I met were some of the most encouraging residents I have come across and they seemed like genuinely nice people. I'm not sure if I'm being shielded from the uglier side of things because I happened to meet an unusually nice group of residents. I think I could tolerate long hours and getting yelled at by difficult people for 7 years, but I question my ability to tolerate outright bullying on top of all that.

This topic is rather controversial, and my apologies if my answer is insufficient to your question. In my experience in training, I have never witnessed any physical confrontation between neurosurgery residents. I have heard stories, from friends or colleagues, of these types of behaviors, albeit infrequent. A number of factors contribute to this, and in all honesty, I am not sure where my opinion/position on the issue lay. For instance, I agree we should avoid conflict, and seek resolution through amicable means. I also do feel that some of the stress involved, and the hierarchy we enforce, is necessary both to learn as well as, as you put it, "toughen up." Can we have it both ways?

Neurosurgery is a small community, the largest program in the country takes 4 residents per year. We also, as a field, tend to be very busy, have a lot of very sick patients, and are relied upon by others within the medical community for our expertise on an area which is scary to them. Our training length is long, at 7 years. Adding these components together results in an environment wherein many very capable, ambitious people come together, in a very confined, high pressure environment, and egos and tempers naturally flair. The trope is that neurosurgeons are arrogant, and think they are god. While I have yet to meet a neurosurgeon who truly does have this belief, I have met many arrogant neurosurgeons with a notable amount of hubris. In my experience, the most conflict arises when personalities conflict, or feelings are hurt. For example, a junior resident who is insubordinate, or drops the ball, or fails to respond to appropriate feedback. For the former, a weaker chief or senior may resort to threats or attacks for motivation, and the latter again can be difficult to counter.

In all, I think your assessment that the vast majority of our residents are exceptional individuals. We tend to be very nice, and encouraging of medical students. Even so, we have an edge, and exceptionally high expectations for both ourselves, and those around us. Much of training is learning to handle these expectations, and how to motivate people to reach our pre-determined goals for them. Likewise, how to be realistic, and not become upset at others because we expect too much.

Can I say for certain it is true or not? No. When I speak to my mentors or advisers, we often reminisce over the shared hardships. We tend to have locker-room talk, one-upping one another with stories of our past be it patients or families we have interracial with, but also our encounters with our co-residents or fellows, or other services. Some of it may be bravado, but I do suspect there is a vein of truth to the majority of these stories.
 
Hi neusu!
I am currently a medical student. I just completed a medical elective in a neurology rotation, and despite enjoying the critical thinking involved and the application of knowledge, I felt as if there were more times then I would like where nothing could be done. I am interested in all things neuro, including neurosurgery. However, I have only seen a few neurosurgeries performed and enjoyed observing them, and I enjoy the pre/post op care of the patients in general. However, the majority of my time spent in the OR are within other surgical specialties (ortho and gen surg), in which I felt completely uninterested (please don't make me assist another shoulder arthroscopy). I don't know whether it was because I was not involved as much as I would have liked, or whether I dislike the OR in general. Did you ever do other surgical rotations during your MD years and find them disinteresting? Is there a relatable component i.e. should I be interested in spending time in the OR in general considering much of neurosurgery is within the OR?
Thanks in advance!
 
Hi neusu!
I am currently a medical student. I just completed a medical elective in a neurology rotation, and despite enjoying the critical thinking involved and the application of knowledge, I felt as if there were more times then I would like where nothing could be done. I am interested in all things neuro, including neurosurgery. However, I have only seen a few neurosurgeries performed and enjoyed observing them, and I enjoy the pre/post op care of the patients in general. However, the majority of my time spent in the OR are within other surgical specialties (ortho and gen surg), in which I felt completely uninterested (please don't make me assist another shoulder arthroscopy). I don't know whether it was because I was not involved as much as I would have liked, or whether I dislike the OR in general. Did you ever do other surgical rotations during your MD years and find them disinteresting? Is there a relatable component i.e. should I be interested in spending time in the OR in general considering much of neurosurgery is within the OR?
Thanks in advance!

Thanks for the reply.

We do not really do rotations on other services, aside from elective years, and the majority of that is specifically neurosurgery related (e.g. peripheral nerve, neuro-otology, cranio-facial, etc.).

There is a saying in general regarding specialty selection and surgery: if you'd rather be no where else in the hospital than the OR, pick anesthesia; if you'd rather be no where else in the world, pick surgery. What I am getting at, is, neurosurgery is hard. Very hard. If you like the idea of being a neurosurgeon, and the pathology we deal with, great. A lot of people do. If you don't particularly like the OR, or the lifestyle involved, perhaps it isn't for you.
 
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How did you know very early on or even before med school that you wanted to do neurosurgery?
 
How did you know very early on or even before med school that you wanted to do neurosurgery?

I was interested in neurosciences and worked in a research lab. I'd thought about neurology as well, but my personality, hands on/procedural mindset, and desire for immediate gratification led me toward neurosurgery.
 
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Hey man so today I was shadowing an interventional cardiologist in the Cath lab. When we were done with cases I had the opportunity to watch a Neurosurgeon and Neurointerventional radiologist coil and stent a brain aneurysm also in the cath lab. It was super sick and they did it well.

This led me to think about the future of neurosurgery and of Neuro IR. Do you see this becoming a battle similar to that of Interventional Cards/CT Surgery? IC clearly won that battle but I think Neurosurgery has the upper hand in this one. What do you think? Do you think this will be an issue?
Will Neurosurg still have plenty of cranial business even if these guys start doing more and more endovascular stuff? Good thing is that Neurosurgery is also training in endovascular. Also do you think even if **** hits the fan with intracranial stuff, Neurosurg will still always have spine right? What do you think about the future of spine given data showing lack of efficacy in spine surgeries?
 
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Hey man so today I was shadowing an interventional cardiologist in the Cath lab. When we were done with cases I had the opportunity to watch a Neurosurgeon and Neurointerventional radiologist coil and stent a brain aneurysm also in the cath lab. It was super sick and they did it well.

This led me to think about the future of neurosurgery and of Neuro IR. Do you see this becoming a battle similar to that of Interventional Cards/CT Surgery? IC clearly won that battle but I think Neurosurgery has the upper hand in this one. What do you think? Do you think this will be an issue?
Will Neurosurg still have plenty of cranial business even if these guys start doing more and more endovascular stuff? Good thing is that Neurosurgery is also training in endovascular. Also do you think even if **** hits the fan with intracranial stuff, Neurosurg will still always have spine right? What do you think about the future of spine given data showing lack of efficacy in spine surgeries?

Tough to tell. It is a it of a turf war in many hospitals between neurology, interventional neuroradiology, and neurosurgery. We have positioned ourselves so as to not get excluded entirely, as the cardiac surgeons did. To that end, we work with the other specialists to partner to standardize training and develop future technology.

For what it is worth, we share spine with orthopedics.
 
For what it is worth, we share spine with orthopedics.

Is there much of a difference in the practice of an ortho spine and a neurosurgeon? I’ve heard that neuro tends to get more tumors (all?), while ortho tends to do more structural stuff. In my own anecdotal experience, the only spine doc doing things like kyphoplasty was the ortho guy, and the only guy doing tumors was a neuro guy. All of them did lamis and fusions.
 
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Tough to tell. It is a it of a turf war in many hospitals between neurology, interventional neuroradiology, and neurosurgery. We have positioned ourselves so as to not get excluded entirely, as the cardiac surgeons did. To that end, we work with the other specialists to partner to standardize training and develop future technology.

For what it is worth, we share spine with orthopedics.

Do you think endovascular procedures will take over neurosurgery as much as it did CT Surgery?
 
Is there much of a difference in the practice of an ortho spine and a neurosurgeon? I’ve heard that neuro tends to get more tumors (all?), while ortho tends to do more structural stuff. In my own anecdotal experience, the only spine doc doing things like kyphoplasty was the ortho guy, and the only guy doing tumors was a neuro guy. All of them did lamis and fusions.

I’ve seen more than a handful of kyohoplasty being done by NSG at our hospital.


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Is there much of a difference in the practice of an ortho spine and a neurosurgeon? I’ve heard that neuro tends to get more tumors (all?), while ortho tends to do more structural stuff. In my own anecdotal experience, the only spine doc doing things like kyphoplasty was the ortho guy, and the only guy doing tumors was a neuro guy. All of them did lamis and fusions.

Objectively, no, there is not.

In practice, the difference is institutional dependent. You are correct, the general trend is ortho does more deformity and instrumentation and neurosurgery does more degenerative and tumor. That being said, ortho does do both, as does neurosurgery. What each is comfortable with is dependent on training and practice patterns.
 
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1. What are some ways that you learn the best?
2. What's your typically day like? (From the time you wake up and go to sleep)
3. How do you maintain enough energy to function?
4. How do you deal with your friends and family going out and having fun while you are at work and studying? (Not saying you're not living life but you are limited the amount of time for leisure)
5. Is true that residents gets "pimped" during rounds?
 
Do you think endovascular procedures will take over neurosurgery as much as it did CT Surgery?

In some ways, they already have. We currently do far more endovascular treatments for aneurysms than we do open. There will always be a place for open surgery, but the trend is to be as minimally invasive as possible.
 
1. What are some ways that you learn the best?
2. What's your typically day like? (From the time you wake up and go to sleep)
3. How do you maintain enough energy to function?
4. How do you deal with your friends and family going out and having fun while you are at work and studying? (Not saying you're not living life but you are limited the amount of time for leisure)
5. Is true that residents gets "pimped" during rounds?

1. Repetition.
2. Wake up, work out, rounds, OR/procedure lab/clinic (depending on the day), put out any fires, go home, sleep.
3. It can be hard. Most days are constant stimulation, so I really do not have a chance to be tired. I do find, though, that if it is slow, or I have some down time, I tend to feel it more. Much like anything in life, practice makes perfect. I have been working this way for many years, so by now I am used to it. If you were to take 18-year-old me or 22-year-old me and put them in my current shoes, they would struggle.
4. First and foremost, adjust expectations. I love running. I would run marathons and so forth before residency. That simply is not feasible during clinical rotations with how I handle it. Instead, I scale it back. I still run, just not as far. Likewise, it is easy to look at other people's lives and feel envy or disdain at your current situation. Part of the selection process for medicine, and neurosurgery in particular, is understanding that choosing this career path, and this life, is a sacrifice. I won't pretend that I never envied my friends and family, but I also thought what I was doing was pretty neat and enjoyed it.
5. Absolutely
 
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Hi @neusu , I've been following this thread since I joined and wanted to pitch in some discussion now that I'm heading to medical school.

What can you say about where neurosurgery is heading socially? I recently checked out a thread in an interest forum and the way it rapidly degenerated was alarming to say the least. This specialty has always been among my chief interests but I don't think I want to invest the time if residents are actually bullied out of their spots for simply being/expecting respect for LGBT or being labeled "SJW ****s" simply for avoiding the use of slurs. Not accusing you or anyone else on this board (or the specialty in general) for espousing this sort of thing, just going off of a couple threads I encountered. Thanks for your dedication to this thread and SDN.
 
Hi @neusu , I've been following this thread since I joined and wanted to pitch in some discussion now that I'm heading to medical school.

What can you say about where neurosurgery is heading socially? I recently checked out a thread in an interest forum and the way it rapidly degenerated was alarming to say the least. This specialty has always been among my chief interests but I don't think I want to invest the time if residents are actually bullied out of their spots for simply being/expecting respect for LGBT or being labeled "SJW ****s" simply for avoiding the use of slurs. Not accusing you or anyone else on this board (or the specialty in general) for espousing this sort of thing, just going off of a couple threads I encountered. Thanks for your dedication to this thread and SDN.

I think you’re going to find disdain for SJWs in most medical fields. These people are mostly immature hyper liberal trouble makers that no mature physician wants to be around.

Sure there’s a couple very vocal physicians who are SJWs like Esther Choo but they are rare and frankly a laughing stock for most people in the medical community.

This is probably exaggerated in surgical and other high pressure fields where people frankly just don’t have the time or patience for this bull****. I don’t think neurosurgery is an exception.
 
This is probably exaggerated in surgical and other high pressure fields where people frankly just don’t have the time or patience for this bull****. I don’t think neurosurgery is an exception.

I have a problem with a) respecting people being reduced to "SJW" and b) the idea that "pressure" is an invitation to not do so.

I have worked challenging jobs with long hours (not comparable to that of a surgery resident of course) and never found an insatiable urge to use slurs or belittle certain demographics because of it. I'm not sure how one situation somehow begets the other. I refuse to derail an extremely helpful thread but I can only imagine what sort of behavior you chalk up to "immature liberal troublemaking," premed. I have shadowed plenty of physicians and spent many hours in the hospital occasionally with opportunities to discuss social issues like a reasonable adult.
 
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I think you’re going to find disdain for SJWs in most medical fields. These people are mostly immature hyper liberal trouble makers that no mature physician wants to be around.

Sure there’s a couple very vocal physicians who are SJWs like Esther Choo but they are rare and frankly a laughing stock for most people in the medical community.

This is probably exaggerated in surgical and other high pressure fields where people frankly just don’t have the time or patience for this bull****. I don’t think neurosurgery is an exception.

This is utterly ridiculous.


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Hi @neusu , I've been following this thread since I joined and wanted to pitch in some discussion now that I'm heading to medical school.

What can you say about where neurosurgery is heading socially? I recently checked out a thread in an interest forum and the way it rapidly degenerated was alarming to say the least. This specialty has always been among my chief interests but I don't think I want to invest the time if residents are actually bullied out of their spots for simply being/expecting respect for LGBT or being labeled "SJW ****s" simply for avoiding the use of slurs. Not accusing you or anyone else on this board (or the specialty in general) for espousing this sort of thing, just going off of a couple threads I encountered. Thanks for your dedication to this thread and SDN.

Neurosurgery, like much of medicine, tends to be rather conservative. I can not say I have much experience with resident issues involving these concerns. We tend to keep it professional at work, though our sense of humor is dark.
 
I think you’re going to find disdain for SJWs in most medical fields. These people are mostly immature hyper liberal trouble makers that no mature physician wants to be around.

Sure there’s a couple very vocal physicians who are SJWs like Esther Choo but they are rare and frankly a laughing stock for most people in the medical community.

This is probably exaggerated in surgical and other high pressure fields where people frankly just don’t have the time or patience for this bull****. I don’t think neurosurgery is an exception.

While the sentiment of your statement may have truths, the way you put it is incendiary. I mentioned earlier, medicine in general, and surgical fields in particular, tends to be conservative. Even more so at work. My impression, is most people could care less what your beliefs are regarding religion, politics, gender identity, etc. so long as you check it at the door and interact with the medical team and patients in an expected, and professional way. Some may have with this, and perhaps, that is where the disagreements lay. I am not a lawyer, but I would hazard a bet that the behavioral conduct and dress code in a court room is standardized, and inflexible for any individual lawyers' personal beliefs or need to express themselves. In some ways, the hospital, another professional environment, functions similar.
 
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Neurosurgery, like much of medicine, tends to be rather conservative. I can not say I have much experience with resident issues involving these concerns. We tend to keep it professional at work, though our sense of humor is dark.

While I find it somewhat concerning, this description doesn't portray it to me as something I would be incapable of working with. Thank you.
 
While I find it somewhat concerning, this description doesn't portray it to me as something I would be incapable of working with. Thank you.

I would have to read the discussion you are referencing. In my experience, no one is bullied out of a residency. There certainly can be personality differences and inter-resident conflict, but these things tend to sort themselves out. When a resident leaves, or is asked to leave a program, there is an underlying issue that is brought to the resident's attention, he fails to address it appropriately, is remediated and given opportunity to show improvement, and ultimately fails. Likewise, the experience as a medical student is far different than a resident. Many residents have a change of heart, and realize they entered the field for the wrong reasons, and ultimately pursue another specialty. Neurosurgery is an incredibly tough field, both with the volume and complexity of the pathologies with which we deal. Add to that other difficulties such as academic, interpersonal, personal, health or financial and it becomes too much for many. That is not say they are not great, and exceptionally capable people, simply the timing was not right.
 
I would have to read the discussion you are referencing. In my experience, no one is bullied out of a residency. There certainly can be personality differences and inter-resident conflict, but these things tend to sort themselves out. When a resident leaves, or is asked to leave a program, there is an underlying issue that is brought to the resident's attention, he fails to address it appropriately, is remediated and given opportunity to show improvement, and ultimately fails. Likewise, the experience as a medical student is far different than a resident. Many residents have a change of heart, and realize they entered the field for the wrong reasons, and ultimately pursue another specialty. Neurosurgery is an incredibly tough field, both with the volume and complexity of the pathologies with which we deal. Add to that other difficulties such as academic, interpersonal, personal, health or financial and it becomes too much for many. That is not say they are not great, and exceptionally capable people, simply the timing was not right.

Do you mind a PM?
 
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