Army vs. Navy vs. Air Force?

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Dr. Dukes

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I'm about to go down to USUHS for my interview (next week), and I have no idea what service I'm interested. I know I'm interested in a surgery sub-specialty (Trauma-Critical Care or Cardio-Thorasic or Vascular) but I don't know the chances of getting Gen. Surg residency from USUHS from the services (going on the assumption I am ~ top 25% of the class, yeah for my ego...). Also, does anyone know the general deployment schedules for the services (i.e. 1 year "away" then 3 years in the States then 1 year "away" then...). Will I be deployed during residency? Can I do a civilian fellowship, or do the services have their own? How often do docs get transferred from 1 base to another?
I think you can guess where my questions are going, any answers would be great. Thanks!

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I'm about to go down to USUHS for my interview (next week), and I have no idea what service I'm interested. I know I'm interested in a surgery sub-specialty (Trauma-Critical Care or Cardio-Thorasic or Vascular) but I don't know the chances of getting Gen. Surg residency from USUHS from the services (going on the assumption I am ~ top 25% of the class, yeah for my ego...). Also, does anyone know the general deployment schedules for the services (i.e. 1 year "away" then 3 years in the States then 1 year "away" then...). Will I be deployed during residency? Can I do a civilian fellowship, or do the services have their own? How often do docs get transferred from 1 base to another?
I think you can guess where my questions are going, any answers would be great. Thanks!

I have a hard time believing you read very many of the posts.

Your choice of specialty will make interesting interview conversation. That is great if you maintain your interest in that subspecialty, but no one would expect you to do so at this point in your career. Speculating on what you will be competitive for as a residency applicant is pointless. Having a strong medical school academic record would be the thing to work for.

You won't be deployed during residency. Maybe before residency, assuming the GMO-dependent staffing model still obtains, and maybe after residency, as a staff specialist. A lot will depend on the op-tempo at that time, ten or so years hence. Most fellowships are now done in civilian academic centers. That probably will be true when you are far enough along to do one.

Transfers are part of military orders. In the ordinary course of things, permanent change of station orders are issued every two to three years, depending on the circumstances of the present post you hold (training, staff, CONUS, OCONUS, accompained or not, special duty, etc., too many variables to discuss here). Between PCS orders, you may receive orders to deploy or perform duties away from home (TAD, TDY). Those can come at any time and at present can go for a year or more.

Your questions seem to be all over the place, so I don't know where your questions are leading. Care to enlighten?
 
I'm about to go down to USUHS for my interview (next week), and I have no idea what service I'm interested. I know I'm interested in a surgery sub-specialty (Trauma-Critical Care or Cardio-Thorasic or Vascular) but I don't know the chances of getting Gen. Surg residency from USUHS from the services (going on the assumption I am ~ top 25% of the class, yeah for my ego...). Also, does anyone know the general deployment schedules for the services (i.e. 1 year "away" then 3 years in the States then 1 year "away" then...). Will I be deployed during residency? Can I do a civilian fellowship, or do the services have their own? How often do docs get transferred from 1 base to another?
I think you can guess where my questions are going, any answers would be great. Thanks!
Take choice D: None of the above.
 
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Sorry for the confusion. I'll distill it down to background and a couple questions. I know I want to do surgery, and I know I want to specalize (don't know what yet...). Which service makes such a career the easiest? Will I have to do a GMO tour (service independent) to get a specialty? Will I have to do a GMO tour between internship/residency (some talk about this being the case in the Navy)?
Thanks in advance for your help
 
Also, does anyone know the general deployment schedules for the services (i.e. 1 year "away" then 3 years in the States then 1 year "away" then...).

This question makes up an entire chapter in my book..."Lies, D*mned Lies, and the Aerospace Expeditionary Force". In 1999, the Air Force promised us a more predictable schedule of deployment to diminish stress and improve morale. We could count on 1 (one) 3 (three) month deployment every 15 months, with a year off in between deployments. Then came 9/11, and, suddenly, the *****s in charge of all of the services realized that the structures and staffing designed around the MOOTW (Military Operations Other Than War) of the 90's (Bosnia, Haiti, etc.) were entirely inadequate for prosecuting MIW (Missions Involving War). Thus, our promised predictability went out the window...poof, like Keyser Söze, it was gone. Suddenly, people got deployed whenever for however long, in "buckets" that Pentagon generals pulled out of their pimply arses on the fly (you try doing that). Especially if you had valuable specialty training (ortho, vascular, to a lesser extent anesthesia), you had every chance of being a "onesie or twosie" deployee separate from the UTC deployment group you had trained with. The Army already deploys for a year on the ground (pre-deployment spin up and post-deployment spin-down not included); if the three military medical services *do* merge eventually, you can be assured the Air Force and Navy will scale up deployments to match the Army, rather than vice versa.

Anyone who tells you with a straight face that he/she can predict what deployments or ops tempo will look like when you graduate from internship is either a liar, a recruiter, or...sorry, I'm being redundant. A liar. After we invade Iran, assist Israel in taking down Syria, try (valiantly, but quixotically) to save Taiwan from assimilation by Zhongguo, do something (who knows what?) to counter N. Korea's madman, we will be spread so thin all over the world that Luxembourg could march into D.C. and make us all eat smelly cheese.

So, here's my answer, as a former Deployment Team Leader at Travis, and ex-LtCol: If you sign your life away, expect the unexpected with regard to operational taskings. Expect every single promise anyone makes you regarding deployment predictability or scheduling to be broken as soon as anything significant shows up on CNN...because you can bet your bottom dollar that NO ONE in the Pentagon has planned adequately for next year's crisis, let alone those of five years hence. You will become great friends with Major Bohica, so bring your own lubricant to the party, if you choose to go.

As you can see, my advice, after 19 years in uniform, would be to run screaming away from USU to a civilian medical school and residency. If you then choose to serve your country in the military as a specialist physician, at least you would have a 50:50 chance of not having to see flyers with runny noses and other body parts as a glorified GP flight surgeon.

--
R
USUHS 1990
http://www.medicalcorpse.com
 
After we invade Iran, assist Israel in taking down Syria, try (valiantly, but quixotically) to save Taiwan from assimilation by Zhongguo, do something (who knows what?) to counter N. Korea's madman, we will be spread so thin all over the world that Luxembourg could march into D.C. and make us all eat smelly cheese.

QUOTE]

!!!!Save Tibet!!!!
 
This question makes up an entire chapter in my book..."Lies, D*mned Lies, and the Aerospace Expeditionary Force". In 1999, the Air Force promised us a more predictable schedule of deployment to diminish stress and improve morale. We could count on 1 (one) 3 (three) month deployment every 15 months, with a year off in between deployments. Then came 9/11, and, suddenly, the *****s in charge of all of the services realized that the structures and staffing designed around the MOOTW (Military Operations Other Than War) of the 90's (Bosnia, Haiti, etc.) were entirely inadequate for prosecuting MIW (Missions Involving War). Thus, our promised predictability went out the window...poof, like Keyser Söze, it was gone. Suddenly, people got deployed whenever for however long, in "buckets" that Pentagon generals pulled out of their pimply arses on the fly (you try doing that). Especially if you had valuable specialty training (ortho, vascular, to a lesser extent anesthesia), you had every chance of being a "onesie or twosie" deployee separate from the UTC deployment group you had trained with. The Army already deploys for a year on the ground (pre-deployment spin up and post-deployment spin-down not included); if the three military medical services *do* merge eventually, you can be assured the Air Force and Navy will scale up deployments to match the Army, rather than vice versa.

Anyone who tells you with a straight face that he/she can predict what deployments or ops tempo will look like when you graduate from internship is either a liar, a recruiter, or...sorry, I'm being redundant. A liar. After we invade Iran, assist Israel in taking down Syria, try (valiantly, but quixotically) to save Taiwan from assimilation by Zhongguo, do something (who knows what?) to counter N. Korea's madman, we will be spread so thin all over the world that Luxembourg could march into D.C. and make us all eat smelly cheese.

So, here's my answer, as a former Deployment Team Leader at Travis, and ex-LtCol: If you sign your life away, expect the unexpected with regard to operational taskings. Expect every single promise anyone makes you regarding deployment predictability or scheduling to be broken as soon as anything significant shows up on CNN...because you can bet your bottom dollar that NO ONE in the Pentagon has planned adequately for next year's crisis, let alone those of five years hence. You will become great friends with Major Bohica, so bring your own lubricant to the party, if you choose to go.

As you can see, my advice, after 19 years in uniform, would be to run screaming away from USU to a civilian medical school and residency. If you then choose to serve your country in the military as a specialist physician, at least you would have a 50:50 chance of not having to see flyers with runny noses and other body parts as a glorified GP flight surgeon.

--
R
USUHS 1990
http://www.medicalcorpse.com

Doesn't anybody sign on and want to deploy and do other military things? Isn't that the whole point of being in the service?

Just call me confused. Why would anybody sign up and not expect to go to Iraq, Afghanistan, or any other theater.
 
Yes, and the Air Force promptly ordered me to get my head examined when I VOLUNTEERED to deploy ASAP. It went so far as my volunteering to be deployed with an Army unit that I went stateside TDY with to help them become proficient medics. All I got to show with it was the Army Achievement Medal I was awarded, the pleasure of knowing that the unit I worked with excelled when faced with wounded soldiers. Several of them were lauded for their actions and when they returned to the US credited the training that my colleagues (two other airmen) and I provided with their performances. Oh, and ANOTHER visit to the base psychology clinic because apparently I must be nuts to actually want to deploy.

This is yet one more reason I came to detest the Air Force.
 
I'm about to go down to USUHS for my interview (next week), and I have no idea what service I'm interested. I know I'm interested in a surgery sub-specialty (Trauma-Critical Care or Cardio-Thorasic or Vascular) but I don't know the chances of getting Gen. Surg residency from USUHS from the services (going on the assumption I am ~ top 25% of the class, yeah for my ego...). Also, does anyone know the general deployment schedules for the services (i.e. 1 year "away" then 3 years in the States then 1 year "away" then...). Will I be deployed during residency? Can I do a civilian fellowship, or do the services have their own? How often do docs get transferred from 1 base to another?
I think you can guess where my questions are going, any answers would be great. Thanks!


Picking a service based on deployment schedules may become a moot point with the Unified Medical Command on the horizon. Typically the AF does less time in the sand box but that is only a generalization. I don't know the numbers on Gen Surgery. I'm planning on doing EM myself and thus chose to switch from Air Force (prior service enlisted) to Army, since they have quite a few more slots. Bottom line with USUHS is your making a commitment to the military first and no residency is guaranteed. Good luck, and ignore the background noise you get on this site. There is going to be a lot of it.
 
Doesn't anybody sign on and want to deploy and do other military things? Isn't that the whole point of being in the service?

Just call me confused. Why would anybody sign up and not expect to go to Iraq, Afghanistan, or any other theater.

This attitude will serve you well in Iran. I am not about to hijack this thread with discussions of the wisdom of invading Iraq while UBL was/is still at large. My point is precisely what you said: assume you will be going to various sandboxes all around Western, Central, and East Asia for indeterminate amounts of time, for indeterminate reasons, with indeterminate breaks in between deployments, for an indefinite subset of your military career, and you will have a realistic attitude re: deployment "schedules" in the year 2010.

If you can maintain a gung ho attitude given the above, Congratulations! You will make a fine subordinate to the nurse commanding your deployment team in downtown Taizhong. Make sure you bring your iodine pills, and do not say "No" to the lead-lined undies.

--
R
Latterly of the 39th EMEDS, Incirlik AB, Turkey
Commanded by a Nurse
In Proud Support of OEF: Jul-Aug 2002
http://www.medicalcorpse.com

P.S. I will forestall any objections to Pinyin transliteration of Zhongwen de zi vs. Wade-Giles Romanization: Deal.
 
Anyone who tells you with a straight face that he/she can predict what deployments or ops tempo will look like when you graduate from internship is either a liar, a recruiter, or...sorry, I'm being redundant. A liar. After we invade Iran, assist Israel in taking down Syria, try (valiantly, but quixotically) to save Taiwan from assimilation by Zhongguo, do something (who knows what?) to counter N. Korea's madman, we will be spread so thin all over the world that Luxembourg could march into D.C. and make us all eat smelly cheese.
.

--
R
USUHS 1990
http://www.medicalcorpse.com

I AM a recruiter and I know for a fact that I definitely CANNOT tell you how often you will deploy, I have no idea. That is not our lane, as a matter of fact, once someone is in the system, we have very little to do with where you go. That is controlled by Branch and OPTEMPO. My job is finding qualified people; HSD, qualifying and selecting them; OTSG, trainiing them and Branch, assigning them.
 
http://64.254.158.112/pdf/MOTP_en.pdf

Now, I know that tuition is far higher in the United States and that some states provide favourable tax treatment of military salaries (i.e., reduced or no state income tax), but other than those two reasons, can anyone explain the massive discrepancies in salaries for medical officers in Canada and the United States? Is there something that I am missing here? I presume that there is, but....
 
can anyone explain the massive discrepancies in salaries for medical officers in Canada and the United States?

Yes. They had a huge exodus of doctors and someone in the Canadian military was smart enough to realize that terrible salary has a lot to do with terrible retention.
 
Very good. That's most unlike them up here in the Great White North. Canadian bureaucrats are sometimes tight with a dollar, even in the face of obvious spending needs.

From the presepctive of an admittedly uninformed layman, it seems unusual for Canadian spending on anything relating to the military to threaten or even outpace similar expenditure in the United States.

Yes. They had a huge exodus of doctors and someone in the Canadian military was smart enough to realize that terrible salary has a lot to do with terrible retention.
 
Very good. That's most unlike them up here in the Great White North. Canadian bureaucrats are sometimes tight with a dollar, even in the face of obvious spending needs.

From the presepctive of an admittedly uninformed layman, it seems unusual for Canadian spending on anything relating to the military to threaten or even outpace similar expenditure in the United States.

I agree that it is revolutionary thinking... or perhaps evolutionary thinking. The outdated assumption that people are endlessly willing to self-sacrifice for the notion of patriotism is long gone, but the US military bigwigs can't seem to understand that concept. The Earth isn't flat, no matter how much they want it to be.
 
I agree that it is revolutionary thinking... or perhaps evolutionary thinking. The outdated assumption that people are endlessly willing to self-sacrifice for the notion of patriotism is long gone, but the US military bigwigs can't seem to understand that concept. The Earth isn't flat, no matter how much they want it to be.

Maybe its not that the bigwigs don't understand the concept... Maybe they just aren't interested in retention because it is cheaper to have brand new docs through the HPSP pipeline rather than paying attendings.
 
I have a question regarding which branch of military I should go if I take the scholarship offer a year of medical school assistance for every year of service. Ideally, I would like to know the salary of people who are military physicians. Also, say after four years, I decide to leave the military, will I be able to serve at a hospital? or will hospitals prefer the new graduates compared to a person who just finished serving four years? Am I signing my life off when I take this scholarship so if I continue in the field of medicine I will have to stay with the military or will I be able to work at a hospital after four years of service? Thanks, I did not want to start a new thread because I really liked the title.
 
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