Army Psychiatrist kills 11 at Ft. Hood

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grotto

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So far, they think he is a psychiatrist but other news sources are saying he was a psychologist. Nevertheless, looks like he was about to deploy.

What a tragedy.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/us/06forthood.html?_r=1&hp

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He was a graduate of Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency (Psychiatry) and a fellowship.

Nidal Malik Hasan had orders to deploy to Iraq on Nov. 28.
Hasan had been promoted to major in May. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson, R-Texas, said military officials told her that the gunman was upset about his impending deployment.

Hasan specialized in traumatic stress. It was not known whether he was treating people at the base.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33695256/ns/us_news-military/

Unbelievable...
 
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Looking more like a psychiatrist. He was a graduate of and professor at USU. I couldn't be more proud...... :mad:

what a tragic, horrible event. :(
 
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The alleged shooter's name is allegedly MALIK NADIL HASAN.

He allegedly graduated from Uniformed Services University in 2001.

110509_forthood9_20091105_192331.jpg
 
Yeah, I just saw this all over Google News. Disturbing story.
 
I was a former Navy psychiatrist and I'm shocked by the revelations. I can't imagine what the Army psychiatry community is feeling right now. From the sketchy info, looked like he graduated residency around 06 so he had several years experience post-residency. Wonder if he was board certified. I think this is a reminder that everyone is human and has a breaking point. Gotta wonder what the events were leading up to this tragedy.
 
I was a former Navy psychiatrist and I'm shocked by the revelations. I can't imagine what the Army psychiatry community is feeling right now. From the sketchy info, looked like he graduated residency around 06 so he had several years experience post-residency. Wonder if he was board certified. I think this is a reminder that everyone is human and has a breaking point. Gotta wonder what the events were leading up to this tragedy.

Residency 2007
Fellowship 2009
 
He was fellowship trained? What was the fellowship in?

From the link I posted:

Medical, Osteopathic, or Podiatric School
Last Updated 10/13/2009
Grad School: Uniformed Services University Of The Health Sciences F. Edward Herbert School Of Medicine - Bethesda MD
Year Completed: 2003
Medical, Osteopathic, or Podiatric Post Grad School
Last Updated 10/13/2009
Psychiatry
WRAMC
Washington, DC USA
Year Residency Completed: 2007


Disaster and Preventive Psychiatry
USUHS/WRAMC
Bethesda, MD USA
Year Fellowship Completed: 2009
 
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He was fellowship trained? What was the fellowship in?

Disaster and Preventive Psychiatry fellowship according to ABC news article.
 
Unbelievable. It's one thing to have people lost overseas, but to have it go down like this is just sad. How do you go to work the next day and not start looking over your shoulder and wondering who you can trust?

Just sad.
 
Reportedly he had been publicly against the war and his impending deployment. He made this known on some online blog within the past year and to some of his coworkers, incl a ret COL who came on fox news tonight.

Considering his 11 year commitment to the Army (ROTC + USUHS) I can't imagine he was too worried about the Army kicking him out.
 
From the link I posted:

Medical, Osteopathic, or Podiatric School
Last Updated 10/13/2009
Grad School: Uniformed Services University Of The Health Sciences F. Edward Herbert School Of Medicine - Bethesda MD
Year Completed: 2003
Medical, Osteopathic, or Podiatric Post Grad School
Last Updated 10/13/2009
Psychiatry
WRAMC
Washington, DC USA
Year Residency Completed: 2007


Disaster and Preventive Psychiatry
USUHS/WRAMC
Bethesda, MD USA
Year Fellowship Completed: 2009

PGG classmate of yours???
 
I'm speechless...
 
Update: As per LTG Cone's latest news brief, MAJ Hasan is not dead. It was misreported initially. He just got out of surgery and is in critical care. Not sure where.
 
NY Times has a really informative write up about him, I guess they got an interview with his cousin:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/us/06suspect.html?hp

Few choice quotes:

Born and reared in Virginia, the son of immigrant parents from a small town near Jerusalem, he joined the Army right out of high school, against his parents' wishes. The Army, in turn, put him through college and then medical school, where he trained to be a psychiatrist.

Several years ago, that included retaining a lawyer and making inquiries about whether he could get out of the Army before his contract was up, because of the harassment he had received as a Muslim. But Nader Hasan said the lawyer had told his cousin that even if he paid the Army back for his education, it would not allow him to leave before his commitment was up.

"I think he gave up that fight and was just doing his time," Mr. Hasan said.

The Associated Press, quoted federal law enforcement officials saying Major Hasan had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that mentioned suicide bombings and other threats.

I can't imagine an officer being harassed for being a muslim by colleagues. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I have just never seen anything like that nor know anyone who would do it - but it kind of makes sense if you take into account that he was disciplined for proselytizing patients in the hospital - maybe that was the "harassment".
 
Update: As per LTG Cone's latest news brief, MAJ Hasan is not dead. It was misreported initially. He just got out of surgery and is in critical care. Not sure where.
Scott and White Hospital in Temple, TX
it is about 45 min car ride from Ft. Hood
 
I think USUHS, a military residency training program and a fellowship are pretty rigorous. If he was able to jump through all those hoops it is really saying something. On the other hand, they say its pretty hard to confront an impaired colleague. So many questions...

So stupid to lose service members to the enemy without a fight.
 
i think usuhs, a military residency training program and a fellowship are pretty rigorous. If he was able to jump through all those hoops it is really saying something. On the other hand, they say its pretty hard to confront an impaired colleague. So many questions...

so stupid to lose service members to the enemy without a fight.

+1
 
Correction... The alleged shooter's name is allegedly:

Nidal Malik Hasan

ht_hasan_hood_091105_mn.jpg


Many reported earlier that his first name was Malik, though it now turns out to be Nidal.
 
This DB had not ever deployed this was supposedly his first deployment and he was against the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan...there is more to this than meets the eye.
 
This DB had not ever deployed this was supposedly his first deployment and he was against the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan...there is more to this than meets the eye.
Why? There are a lot more people than him against the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan who have never been there. It's hardly a requirement.

I'd be curious about how many years he was looking at owing the Army. ROTC plus USUHS equals how long a commitment? Brrrr....
 
Why? There are a lot more people than him against the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan who have never been there. It's hardly a requirement.

I'd be curious about how many years he was looking at owing the Army. ROTC plus USUHS equals how long a commitment? Brrrr....

I think someone said it above, but 4+7=11 year commitment, and since military training does not count towards payback and he had just finished his fellowship - he was looking at 10 more years, just an estimate.
 
Stop with the picture already. We saw it the first 2 times you posted it.

Yes. It would appear that the picture and the muslim name repeated in bold is a trollish attempt to make this look like an act of Jihad despite the lack of evidence that has surfaced thus far...
 
Yes. It would appear that the picture and the muslim name repeated in bold is a trollish attempt to make this look like an act of Jihad despite the lack of evidence that has surfaced thus far...

Look, nobody on this forum has (yet) blamed Islam as a whole for this, but if you don't think this guy was motivated by his religious beliefs and the wars, you're either delusional or have an agenda to push.

Pretending that there's no connection between his religious beliefs and his acts is just as disrespectful and wrong as reflexively blaming all Muslims.

Comprende, Senor 3-posts-joined-last-week-preaching-already Coconut?
 
Look, nobody on this forum has (yet) blamed Islam as a whole for this, but if you don't think this guy was motivated by his religious beliefs and the wars, you're either delusional or have an agenda to push.

Pretending that there's no connection between his religious beliefs and his acts is just as disrespectful and wrong as reflexively blaming all Muslims.

Comprende, Senor 3-posts-joined-last-week-preaching-already Coconut?

There probably is a connection and the most likely connection is that man Muslims held his military service against him and his fellow soldiers held his Muslim background against him. No, that can't be it. It's gotta be jihad. That's far more likely. A 15 year plot to commit Jihad with a pistol...
 
Look, nobody on this forum has (yet) blamed Islam as a whole for this, but if you don't think this guy was motivated by his religious beliefs and the wars, you're either delusional or have an agenda to push.

Pretending that there's no connection between his religious beliefs and his acts is just as disrespectful and wrong as reflexively blaming all Muslims.

Comprende, Senor 3-posts-joined-last-week-preaching-already Coconut?

Lots of Muslims serving and one does not have to be a Muslim to have doubts about particular military policies and commitments. The Jihad angle is a distraction.

The alleged perpetrator is not only reported to have been in ROTC and USUHS, but to have served eight years as enlisted prior to going to Virginia Tech.

This doesn't seem like someone who suddenly finds himself on active duty and can't adjust to military life; this seems like someone decompensating from significant and probably mostly-concealed psychological disease and personality disorders. Think suicidal depression, chronic anger, social and increasingly, professional isolation, narcissism, and possibly a paranoid thought disorder. Add the stressor of failing professional life--poor evaluations--a deployment that might seem like a punitive assignment (true or not) and then feed the flame with a fanatical fascination of self-destructive Jihadism and anything can happen. Think the health club shooter in suburban Pittsburgh last winter and Dr. Baruch Goldstein in Hebron, Israel in 1994, who massacred 29 and shot another 150.
 
Lots of Muslims serving and one does not have to be a Muslim to have doubts about particular military policies and commitments. The Jihad angle is a distraction.

The alleged perpetrator is not only reported to have been in ROTC and USUHS, but to have served eight years as enlisted prior to going to Virginia Tech.

This doesn't seem like someone who suddenly finds himself on active duty and can't adjust to military life; this seems like someone decompensating from significant and probably mostly-concealed psychological disease and personality disorders. Think suicidal depression, chronic anger, social and increasingly, professional isolation, narcissism, and possibly a paranoid thought disorder. Add the stressor of failing professional life--poor evaluations--a deployment that might seem like a punitive assignment (true or not) and then feed the flame with a fanatical fascination of self-destructive Jihadism and anything can happen. Think the health club shooter in suburban Pittsburgh last winter and Dr. Baruch Goldstein in Hebron, Israel in 1994, who massacred 29 and shot another 150.

Well said. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but it looks like this guy had a history of "issues" throughout medical school, reisdency, and fellowship. Just not enough issues at the time to generate too much attention. Of course, looking back, it is easy to connect the dots. ANy forensic psychiatrists out there have a take on this?
 
There probably is a connection and the most likely connection is that man Muslims held his military service against him and his fellow soldiers held his Muslim background against him. No, that can't be it. It's gotta be jihad. That's far more likely. A 15 year plot to commit Jihad with a pistol...

If you are in fact being sarcastic. Ditto. I've known a number of Muslims inside and outside the military, and inside and outside this country. Most mainstream muslims view the jihadist radicals as crazy, uneducated, unsophisticated, nerf-herders. I think this is guy with underlying pathology who had a real thin skin who probably took one too many racial insults. I suspect he probably has more in common with Dillon Clebold than Zacharias Mussawi.

This cat is a nut-job, pure and simple. Muslim, Catholic, Baptist, Hindu...doesn't matter. Crazy is crazy.
 
I don't think it had anything to do with him being muslim, it had to do w/ him attending VT.

I mean, VT shooter, Michael Vick, and now this guy......
 
Lots of Muslims serving and one does not have to be a Muslim to have doubts about particular military policies and commitments. The Jihad angle is a distraction.

The alleged perpetrator is not only reported to have been in ROTC and USUHS, but to have served eight years as enlisted prior to going to Virginia Tech.

This doesn't seem like someone who suddenly finds himself on active duty and can't adjust to military life; this seems like someone decompensating from significant and probably mostly-concealed psychological disease and personality disorders. Think suicidal depression, chronic anger, social and increasingly, professional isolation, narcissism, and possibly a paranoid thought disorder. Add the stressor of failing professional life--poor evaluations--a deployment that might seem like a punitive assignment (true or not) and then feed the flame with a fanatical fascination of self-destructive Jihadism and anything can happen. Think the health club shooter in suburban Pittsburgh last winter and Dr. Baruch Goldstein in Hebron, Israel in 1994, who massacred 29 and shot another 150.

Great post - thats kind of what I was looking for when I started this topic on this website.

This might be further food for thought (from NPR) -

NPR "All Things Considered" reports that Hasan talked at a professional meeting about beheading infidels. A fellow doctor reports:
"He gave a Grand Rounds presentation. . . You take turns giving a lecture on, you know, the correct treatment of schizophrenia, the right drugs to prescribe for personality disorder, you know, that sort of thing. But instead of giving an academic paper, he gave a lecture on the Koran, and they said it didn’t seem to be just an informational lecture, but it seemed to be his own beliefs. That’s what a lot of people thought."
"He talked about how if you’re a nonbeliever the Koran says you should have your head cut off, you should have oil poured down your throat, you should be set on fire. And I said well couldn’t this just be his educating you? And the psychiatrist said yes, but one of the Muslims in the audience, another psychiatrist, raised his hand and was quite disturbed and he said you know, a lot of us don’t believe these things you’re saying, and that there was no place where Hasan couched it as this is what the Koran teaches but you know I don’t believe it. And people actually talked in the hallway afterwards about ‘is he one of these people that’s going to freak out and shoot people someday?’"
I am not a doctor yet, but that seems like behavior that would raise some eyebrows.
 
I get really worried when I see people 'connecting the dots' after the fact. First I think that most medical students have as many or more dots than this guy if anyone cared to connect them (and we're not even at the 'griping' stage yet), and also I think that trying to paint him as a psycho/jihadist detracts from focusing on fixable issues that might have driven him over the edge.

Issues like, for example, the fact that somehow we allow people to indenture themselves to the military for over a decade with no possible way out. Regardless of how hateful/unstable they might become. Or issues like the abuse of Muslims in the military (no idea if that was true, but if it was it needs to be addressed).

I'm not saying anything in the world would excuse or mitigate what he did, but that doesn't mean that we should allow ourselves to lose a chance to help prevent another atrocity by thinking of him as a Hannibal/Osama type psycho.
 
This is hitting a lot of people who post here close to home, for multiple reasons. Go easy.

I was actually just being sarcastic because in my previous post I said it wasn't because he was muslim, but because he went to VT.

However, I must admit it's kind of convenient that the US demographics for muslims make up what, 1-2%? This means that the demographics in the military are probably what, .1-.5%? Anyway, this means that a random person going insane in the military would have a 99.5% chance of not being muslim. Also, he had never been deployed, and for that matter was a POGE. This means that his actual military service of yet probably had nothing to do with these killings. Yes, I realize he was about to get deployed...most people go AWOL instead of mass murdering people if they really don't want to go.

To say it has nothing to do with him being muslim is foolish. I'm not saying this is some terror plot, but the likelihood of his race/religion factoring into this are very good.

From what I have heard so far, he states he was harassed because of his race while in the service. As a former infantryman, I can tell you there is extreme prejudice and racism towards muslims within the army (especially those within a combat role). Because of this there is a great chance that a lot of people may not have liked him because of his race.

US troops are killed everyday overseas because of radical religious views, and no one gives two ****s in the media; why is this any different? Why isn't it headline news every time 12 soldiers die?
 
Lots of Muslims serving and one does not have to be a Muslim to have doubts about particular military policies and commitments. The Jihad angle is a distraction.

The alleged perpetrator is not only reported to have been in ROTC and USUHS, but to have served eight years as enlisted prior to going to Virginia Tech.

This doesn't seem like someone who suddenly finds himself on active duty and can't adjust to military life; this seems like someone decompensating from significant and probably mostly-concealed psychological disease and personality disorders. Think suicidal depression, chronic anger, social and increasingly, professional isolation, narcissism, and possibly a paranoid thought disorder. Add the stressor of failing professional life--poor evaluations--a deployment that might seem like a punitive assignment (true or not) and then feed the flame with a fanatical fascination of self-destructive Jihadism and anything can happen. Think the health club shooter in suburban Pittsburgh last winter and Dr. Baruch Goldstein in Hebron, Israel in 1994, who massacred 29 and shot another 150.

Think your average suicide bomber in Iraq or Afghanistan: suicidal depression, chronic anger, social and increasingly, professional isolation, narcissism, and possibly a paranoid thought disorder ... check, check, check, check, check, check. Hasan has written about the nobility and admirable sacrifices of suicide bombers. He's as much a terrorist motivated by his warped and radical religious views as the guys who splash acid on Afghani schoolgirls.

I'm not saying he went bonkers because he's a Muslim, and I'm not casting dispersions on other Muslims. But I'm a little disturbed by this politically correct reflexive Islam-had-nothing-to-do-with-it crap that's all over the place. It's as ridiculous as saying that the abortion clinic bomber's distorted Christian-flavored religious beliefs are irrelevant.


DeadCactus said:
There probably is a connection and the most likely connection is that man Muslims held his military service against him and his fellow soldiers held his Muslim background against him.

It sounds like he endured a lot since 9/11. He committed himself to a military career via ROTC & USUHS before 9/11. Supposedly he's wanted out for a long time now, though it's odd that he delayed his exit by doing a fellowship. Maybe he did that to buy more time in a nondeployable billet.

DeadCactus said:
No, that can't be it. It's gotta be jihad. That's far more likely. A 15 year plot to commit Jihad with a pistol...

15 year plot, no. Jihad with a pistol -

Well, what else are you going to call it when a guy blogs about his empathy for suicide bombers resisting American invaders, and then goes into a deployment center and conducts a suicidal attack on other American invaders getting ready to deploy while (reportedly) yelling Allahu Akbar?

I can't believe this political correctness is so engrained in people, that there's such fear of speaking anything that MIGHT be offensive to a Muslim someplace, that you guys are actually arguing that this was just another garden-variety crazy dude who got too stressed by life and randomly shot a bunch of people, and that his targets, methods, and religous beliefs are just irrelevant coincidences.

Or perhaps I misunderstand you and I'm overreacting.


grotto said:
This is hitting a lot of people who post here close to home, for multiple reasons. Go easy.

It does have me on edge still.
 
Think your average suicide bomber in Iraq or Afghanistan: suicidal depression, chronic anger, social and increasingly, professional isolation, narcissism, and possibly a paranoid thought disorder ... check, check, check, check, check, check. Hasan has written about the nobility and admirable sacrifices of suicide bombers. He's as much a terrorist motivated by his warped and radical religious views as the guys who splash acid on Afghani schoolgirls.

I'm not saying he went bonkers because he's a Muslim, and I'm not casting dispersions on other Muslims. But I'm a little disturbed by this politically correct reflexive Islam-had-nothing-to-do-with-it crap that's all over the place. It's as ridiculous as saying that the abortion clinic bomber's distorted Christian-flavored religious beliefs are irrelevant.




It sounds like he endured a lot since 9/11. He committed himself to a military career via ROTC & USUHS before 9/11. Supposedly he's wanted out for a long time now, though it's odd that he delayed his exit by doing a fellowship. Maybe he did that to buy more time in a nondeployable billet.



15 year plot, no. Jihad with a pistol -

Well, what else are you going to call it when a guy blogs about his empathy for suicide bombers resisting American invaders, and then goes into a deployment center and conducts a suicidal attack on other American invaders getting ready to deploy while (reportedly) yelling Allahu Akbar?

I can't believe this political correctness is so engrained in people, that there's such fear of speaking anything that MIGHT be offensive to a Muslim someplace, that you guys are actually arguing that this was just another garden-variety crazy dude who got too stressed by life and randomly shot a bunch of people, and that his targets, methods, and religous beliefs are just irrelevant coincidences.

Or perhaps I misunderstand you and I'm overreacting.




It does have me on edge still.

Well Said.
 
I'm not saying he went bonkers because he's a Muslim, and I'm not casting dispersions on other Muslims. But I'm a little disturbed by this politically correct reflexive Islam-had-nothing-to-do-with-it crap that's all over the place. It's as ridiculous as saying that the abortion clinic bomber's distorted Christian-flavored religious beliefs are irrelevant.


I agree, it is myopic to call him a "jihadist" or to say that his religion had nothing to do with the crime - similar to the way that it would be ignorant to say religion had nothing to do with the "troubles" in Northern Ireland or in Bosnia. It is becoming quite obvious that his faith had some part in leading him towards these actions. This is just an honest discussion that we have to have as a society, but no one wants to say anything.
 
I second what Pgg wrote. Political correctness is really annoying. The UN not calling the genocide in sudan a genocide for fear of offending arab muslims is also ridiculous. I read in CNN and the New York Times that witnesses heard Malik yelling "Allah oAckbar" God is Great while he was shooting his gun! I mean does it get any clearer than that? Not all muslims are suicide bombers, but 95% of suicide bombers are muslim, there is a correlation. To say it has nothing to do with religion is just denial.
 
Think your average suicide bomber in Iraq or Afghanistan: suicidal depression, chronic anger, social and increasingly, professional isolation, narcissism, and possibly a paranoid thought disorder ... check, check, check, check, check, check. Hasan has written about the nobility and admirable sacrifices of suicide bombers. He's as much a terrorist motivated by his warped and radical religious views as the guys who splash acid on Afghani schoolgirls.

I'm not saying he went bonkers because he's a Muslim, and I'm not casting dispersions on other Muslims. But I'm a little disturbed by this politically correct reflexive Islam-had-nothing-to-do-with-it crap that's all over the place. It's as ridiculous as saying that the abortion clinic bomber's distorted Christian-flavored religious beliefs are irrelevant.


It sounds like he endured a lot since 9/11. He committed himself to a military career via ROTC & USUHS before 9/11. Supposedly he's wanted out for a long time now, though it's odd that he delayed his exit by doing a fellowship. Maybe he did that to buy more time in a nondeployable billet.



15 year plot, no. Jihad with a pistol -

Well, what else are you going to call it when a guy blogs about his empathy for suicide bombers resisting American invaders, and then goes into a deployment center and conducts a suicidal attack on other American invaders getting ready to deploy while (reportedly) yelling Allahu Akbar?

I can't believe this political correctness is so engrained in people, that there's such fear of speaking anything that MIGHT be offensive to a Muslim someplace, that you guys are actually arguing that this was just another garden-variety crazy dude who got too stressed by life and randomly shot a bunch of people, and that his targets, methods, and religous beliefs are just irrelevant coincidences.

Or perhaps I misunderstand you and I'm overreacting.




It does have me on edge still.

There are millions of Muslims in this country. Only one of them made the news yesterday. Yes, his brand of his religion had a lot to do with his motivations. but that DOES need to be nuanced with the fact that Islam itself isn't too blame any more than Christianity itself is to blame for the above-mentioned abortion clinic bombings.

There are a lot of people in this country that will turn this into a reason to hate every Muslim they know. I don't think that's fair.
 
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