Are the days of ortho over????

[furcation]

So I have been waiting to do orthodontics for frickin' ever. Finally, when the time comes it feels like the hay-day of ortho is over. I know of an orthodontist who graduated 5 years ago, opened up a practice 3 years ago and is now having to close his office to prevent going bankrupt (he has a colleague in the same area who did go bankrupt)... where is the practice might you ask??? Colorado, where there is the new program graduating 16 new orthodontists a year. Everywhere I see new programs are starting (and yes, I think it is money, not need that is driving this). What's happening???? ?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[6molar]

I guess we like blaming the economy nowadays. However, lots of people did lose their jobs along with health (medical and dental) benefits.

Public is spending a lot less on cosmetic stuff like veneers, braces, implants, whitening, to name a few.

I remember a classified on NYT last month or so, looking for an orthodontist to work for 2-3 days a month. They were paying $60 an hour!!! How do orthos make loan payments with that kind of pay?

GPs are not doing that much better. In big cities, they don't even pay base/minimums any more. Mostly 30-35% production strictly.

I'm hoping 2010 will be better for everyone.

 

[charlestweed]

So I have been waiting to do orthodontics for frickin' ever. Finally, when the time comes it feels like the hay-day of ortho is over. I know of an orthodontist who graduated 5 years ago, opened up a practice 3 years ago and is now having to close his office to prevent going bankrupt (he has a colleague in the same area who did go bankrupt)... where is the practice might you ask??? Colorado, where there is the new program graduating 16 new orthodontists a year. Everywhere I see new programs are starting (and yes, I think it is money, not need that is driving this). What's happening???? ?

Ortho is the best dental specialty. If you want to have a stress-free job (don’t have to worry too much about malpractice lawsuits, treating medically compromised patients, bad HMO plans etc) and a nice lifestyle for the rest of your life, work hard during the first 2 years of dental school and apply for ortho in your 3rd year. This is the advice my brother’s orthodontist gave me….and I thank him for it.
You can easily avoid bankruptcy if you don’t spend a lot of money….ie set up a small simple office or share the office with another specialist (endo, perio, pedo). You shouldn’t get the business advice from the sale reps or your ortho instructors. The reason why many of your ortho instructors could afford big beautiful state-of-the art ortho practices is because they didn’t borrowed a lot of student loans when they went to dental/ortho schools many years ago.

 

[smogdodger]

I'm sure a lot of other people are thinking the same thing but.... if you are that worried about becoming successful in your career as an ortho, why don't you just go to an underserved area like Wyoming or something? I've heard of people driving 50+ miles to see an orthodontist. This isn't rocket science; its just a bunch of prima donna orthodonts that want to live in an amazing city and still have a bunch of people flock to them. Allthewhile, the other orthodontists want the same thing, and in a crippled economy. If you want a safe bet, go to an underserved area and do everyone a favor.

 

[Jone]

been there tried that. i actually would PREFER to work in a remote underserved area, pretty much anywhere in the country. and i still could not find a single such lead. was told the ortho sales reps in such areas are probably the best bet for leads, and they still had nothing. heck, Indian Health Service even turned me away....

edit: p.s. may i add, if you have such a lead in so called underserved area, send me a PM.

I'm sure a lot of other people are thinking the same thing but.... if you are that worried about becoming successful in your career as an ortho, why don't you just go to an underserved area like Wyoming or something? I've heard of people driving 50+ miles to see an orthodontist. This isn't rocket science; its just a bunch of prima donna orthodonts that want to live in an amazing city and still have a bunch of people flock to them. Allthewhile, the other orthodontists want the same thing, and in a crippled economy. If you want a safe bet, go to an underserved area and do everyone a favor.

 

[280040]

I don't get it. How was there EVER a job market for orthodontists?? Why would an orthodontist hire another orthodontist? Seems like stress and money out the door to hire some new grad. If anything, hire a GP if you need a license.... Orthodontists are 100% owner-operator, right? Any ADA numbers on that??

Hang a shingle. Open a small, low cost office and get to work. Do your own charts, take your own impressions, send your cephs to a radiology office, do your own treatment presentations, provide value for your referring dentists.......and don't live in big cities of course. But I always say there is always room for someone who is good and cares, maybe that is dental student logic . I don't see how you CAN'T make money doing ortho. $4-6k a patient, yeah it's spread out over many many months or years but gotta start somewhere.

I feel bad for the old orthodontists though...gotta say that young kids can probably connect better with younger docs. Then again, you're established and should be keeping up your skills and this shouldn't be an issue.

 

[NileBDS]

So I have been waiting to do orthodontics for frickin' ever. Finally, when the time comes it feels like the hay-day of ortho is over. I know of an orthodontist who graduated 5 years ago, opened up a practice 3 years ago and is now having to close his office to prevent going bankrupt (he has a colleague in the same area who did go bankrupt)... where is the practice might you ask??? Colorado, where there is the new program graduating 16 new orthodontists a year. Everywhere I see new programs are starting (and yes, I think it is money, not need that is driving this). What's happening???? ?

Ortho is and will continue to be in great demand, however, there will continue be less and less specialty referrals to go around. More GP's than ever are keeping ortho and other specialty procedures in house, and it's not just the economy. It mainly involves greater financial stakes, newer "GP friendly" treatment modalities and better CE's than ever before.

Taken into perspective, ortho residencies have historically been successful in recruiting only the brightest and most ingenious of dental students. I don't see them going broke anytime soon. As far as income and earnings, I think ortho as a specialty share of the market has either peaked or plateaued somewhere within the past 5-10 years.

The not-as-advertised job prospects for newer orthodontists may allude to that fact.

Just my personal opinion, which is probably not worth a whole lot.

 

[KlingonDentist]

It's definitely over!


OVER!!!!

In the future Orthodontists will do general dentistry stuff like whitening and prophys and Veneers/Crowns/Bridges etc.


If general dentists can do ortho why can't orthodontists do GP stuff, we just won't call ourselves Orthodontists. We're General Dentists with Orthodontic Residency training that's all.

This is an all out new era...Unprecedented.

 

[gryffindor]

Ortho is and will continue to be in great demand, however, there will continue be less and less specialty referrals to go around. More GP's than ever are keeping ortho and other specialty procedures in house, and it's not just the economy. It mainly involves greater financial stakes, newer "GP friendly" treatment modalities and better CE's than ever before.

Taken into perspective, ortho residencies have historically been successful in recruiting only the brightest and most ingenious of dental students. I don't see them going broke anytime soon. As far as income and earnings, I think ortho as a specialty share of the market has either peaked or plateaued somewhere within the past 5-10 years.

The not-as-advertised job prospects for newer orthodontists may allude to that fact.

Just my personal opinion, which is probably not worth a whole lot.

I work in house for a GP as the staff orthodontist. We are extremely busy but incredibly inefficient given the setup of a typical GP office. It has opened my eyes as to why an "ortho only" office is a million times more efficient than a GP keeping ortho in house. For one thing, walking from treatment room to treatment room is such a time waster. There's a reason for the open bay you see at ortho offices. Ordering can be a nightmare. Front desk can't tell the difference between a retainer check or an RPE check and can't keep it straight between scheduling for a scaling or an SSC. Assistants used to suctioning and setting up for operative have a slow learning curve trying to get used the basic motions of assisting for ortho appointments. Even though I have dedicated space and staff for ortho only when I work, it is a logistical mess and I usually find myself thinking "I would likely never bring my kid here."

 

[KlingonDentist]

Been there done that. As a GP, I abandoned traditional ortho in my office due to logistics. It can be done but will be alot less profitable and may have negative returns. Basically it is a waste of time in GPs office to do ortho and can even cost you in terms of time wasted you could be doing other more productive GP stuff.

 

[Demeter]

I have a start up Pedo practice and I am looking for an orthodontist to come and work in my office. Perhaps you should be talking to pedos instead of other orthodontists. There is a chain Ortho clinic in town and they see tons of medicaid kids. T