Are all med schools this liberal?

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Trismegistus4

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I'm in my first year, and I admit it, I'm pretty unhappy so far. The reason is that I'm a stranger in a strange land. It seems like just about all of my classmates are blue-state, Volvo-driving, NPR-listening, New York Times-reading leftists who are passionate liberals on both "health" (i.e., socialized medicine, banning tobacco, taxing fatty foods, etc.) and general (same-sex marriage, abortion, taxes, etc.) issues. In addition, our school has a weekly seminar in which we've "learned" such gems as:

  • When seeing an adolescent patient, it's important to kick their parents out of the room so you can talk to them about their sexual activity and offer them contraception without their parents' knowledge
  • When seeing a female patient, it's important to ask her if she feels "safe at home" (i.e., accuse her husband, excuse me, "partner," of beating her)
  • A complete medical history includes a sexual history, and its' essential to ask the patient whether they are active with "men, women, or both" (even if it's a 75-year-old widow)
Of course, if the purpose of this is to liberalize us, it's pointless since all of my classmates except me are already 100% on board with it.

I know we live in a basically liberal society, but I didn't expect it to be this bad. I thought there might be some of this stuff in the air around me, this being a university and all, but it would be easy to just shrug it off and concentrate on studying medicine. But it's proven very demoralizing; it's hard to hunker down and study biochem pathways when you're constantly being reminded that all of your future colleagues, and even the very profession you're entering as a whole, are hell-bent on destroying Western civilization.

Are there any schools where it's not like this? Is anyone else in this situation, or is everyone reading this thread of the same mind as my classmates (i.e., thinking I'm an evil bigoted oppressive white male who fortunately is having the page of history turned on him and will soon die out as we usher in the glorious brave new world of global UN rule?)

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Is this post a joke? Surely it must be...
 
Similar to what I've heard here but I don't think it's part of a liberal conspiracy. Some of that makes sense and some of it crosses some lines in my head. Like the sexual orientation question, since the goal is to get the truth out you have to ask the question in such a way to not sound judgmental. However asking a parent to leave the room so you can talk about birth control with their minor child crosses a line with me.
 
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I don't know about the rest of your post....some people at my school do seem to be pretty liberal. But that's beside my point.

The three clinical scenarios you described don't seem liberal to me, they just seem thorough.


  • First off, it is a doctor's responsibility to discuss contraception with young women - yes even adolescents. There is a lot of peer pressure at school, and a young girl may be sexually active without telling her parents. Wouldn't you rather give her access to birth control than have her mother bring her in for nausea and find out that she is pregnant at 13?

  • Women of all classes in society are susceptible to abuse. They might not say anything unless prompted, and wouldn't you be sorry if your patient were critically injured because nobody knew to intervene.

  • People will surprise you and who knows, a 75 year old widow could just be more promiscuous than a 20 year old college student. Thus far, I have heard many stories of STDs spreading like wildfire through retirement homes.

Just my opinion - as a doctor you have to be aware of even the most radical situations. It isn't that the schools are liberal, but they are recognizing that society is. You may not agree with teenage sex, or homosexual relations among older people, but you can't just block them out.
 

  • First off, it is a doctor's responsibility to discuss contraception with young women - yes even adolescents. There is a lot of peer pressure at school, and a young girl may be sexually active without telling her parents. Wouldn't you rather give her access to birth control than have her mother bring her in for nausea and find out that she is pregnant at 13?

I do believe that this represents a liberal view, or at least is counter to the conservative view that the parent is responsible for the child, not society.
 
[*]When seeing a female patient, it's important to ask her if she feels "safe at home" (i.e., accuse her husband, excuse me, "partner," of beating her)

Um...I'm going to go ahead and say that if you're offended by the idea of screening for domestic violence in primary care settings, you might want to look into career paths that don't involve patient contact.
 
Nah, there are conservatives. We just keep our mouths shut. I find myself frustrated with the students who think doctors should be martyrs and saints. There is such a thing as taking patient advocacy to far (ie. Untold Stories of the ER: Doctor hides drugs from cops to protect patient from gang retaliation)

Also, the required questions about sexual activity and abuse shouldn't be construed as liberal brain washing. There valid questions that are necessary for an accurate diagnosis. Also, just because you ask those questions doesn't mean you endorse their behavior.

Nugent/Heston 08!
 
I'm in my first year, and I admit it, I'm pretty unhappy so far. The reason is that I'm a stranger in a strange land. It seems like just about all of my classmates are blue-state, Volvo-driving, NPR-listening, New York Times-reading leftists who are passionate liberals on both "health" (i.e., socialized medicine, banning tobacco, taxing fatty foods, etc.) and general (same-sex marriage, abortion, taxes, etc.) issues. In addition, our school has a weekly seminar in which we've "learned" such gems as:

  • When seeing an adolescent patient, it's important to kick their parents out of the room so you can talk to them about their sexual activity and offer them contraception without their parents' knowledge
  • When seeing a female patient, it's important to ask her if she feels "safe at home" (i.e., accuse her husband, excuse me, "partner," of beating her)
  • A complete medical history includes a sexual history, and its' essential to ask the patient whether they are active with "men, women, or both" (even if it's a 75-year-old widow)
Of course, if the purpose of this is to liberalize us, it's pointless since all of my classmates except me are already 100% on board with it.

I know we live in a basically liberal society, but I didn't expect it to be this bad. I thought there might be some of this stuff in the air around me, this being a university and all, but it would be easy to just shrug it off and concentrate on studying medicine. But it's proven very demoralizing; it's hard to hunker down and study biochem pathways when you're constantly being reminded that all of your future colleagues, and even the very profession you're entering as a whole, are hell-bent on destroying Western civilization.

Are there any schools where it's not like this? Is anyone else in this situation, or is everyone reading this thread of the same mind as my classmates (i.e., thinking I'm an evil bigoted oppressive white male who fortunately is having the page of history turned on him and will soon die out as we usher in the glorious brave new world of global UN rule?)

I'm not sure if you're trolling here or not, but i'm going to respond as if you're being sincere...

You're certainly welcome to hold whatever social and political views you like, as are your classmates. However, regarding the educational points you bring up, the goal is not to liberalize you, or to sway your beliefs in any way. The goal is to remote a bit of your naivete, which apparently you need. Remember what your goal is as a physician. You're not making policy, you're treating patients, and helping them stay as healthy as they can be. Your job is to meet your patients at whatever point they are in in their life, non judgmentally, and help them to be healthy. I'll take your factoid concerns in order:

When seeing an adolescent patient, it's important to kick their parents out of the room so you can talk to them about their sexual activity and offer them contraception without their parents' knowledge

The goal here is not to undermine the parents values and encourage the teen to sleep around. The fact is that while some teens are not sexually active, many are, either with or without the parent's knowledge. Sexual health and history is a very important part of your exam, and for you to help the teen achieve his/her optimal health, you need accurate and honest information about their sexual history. This is something they may feel the need to lie about in front of their parents. This is the ONLY reason you are asking the parents to leave. To facilitate honest communication. If you feel that it is important that the teen discuss this issue with the parents, you are free to encourage the teen to do so, but remember, he/she is your patient, and confidentiality applies. As far as contraception is concerned, laws on the matter probably vary from state to state, but either way your obligation is to advocate for the patient's health, and if that means providing a discreet contraceptive script, then that is your duty. It doesn't mean you urge the kid to go out and screw, in fact you can and should counsel them on the dangers they may be getting into. But you have to accept the position that the patient is in, and do what you can to help keep him/her safe and in good health.

When seeing a female patient, it's important to ask her if she feels "safe at home" (i.e., accuse her husband, excuse me, "partner," of beating her)

Sadly, many women ARE in abusive relationships. This can be uncomfortable to acknowledge and certainly is a tough thing to discuss. But the fact is, many women are abused and many women will not necessarily volunteer this information. Again, remember that it is your job to advocate for and fight for her safety and health. This means that if you have any suspicion AT ALL that somethign like this may be going on, it's your responsibility to delve into it. This doesn't mean you're 'accusing' someone. It just means you're checking off all the possibilities. While it may be uncomfortable, the first time you find out that someone IS being beaten and can help that woman, you'll understand why it's worth it.

A complete medical history includes a sexual history, and its' essential to ask the patient whether they are active with "men, women, or both" (even if it's a 75-year-old widow)

A complete medical history DOES include a sexual history. Do you think that just because that 75 year old hasn't had sex in the last week, that means that nothing in her sexual history could possibly have an impact on her current health? More importantly, do you really think that a 75 year old widow can't possibly be currently having sex? Plenty do.. :) And good for them! Being a widow doesn't mean SHE'S dead, after all, who's to say she hasn't met someone new! Also, there are plenty of people who are homosexual. This has implications on possible disease. There are plenty of bisexuals. ditto. Lots of people have been raped, both by the opposite sex and the same sex. This is important to know. These things are important to know so that you can insure that their sex lives are healthy and fulfilling. they're important to know so you can be aware of the potential for stds and other sexually related disorders. They're even important to know because sexual dysfunction can be a sign of other, non sexually related, disorders such as heart disease.


In the future, when you're being told things that you feel are meant to brainwash you into being a pinko, why don't you ask the lecturer for clarification, either in class or privately. I think you'll find that there really are good reasons for most of what they are telling you.
 
I do believe that this represents a liberal view, or at least is counter to the conservative view that the parent is responsible for the child, not society.

I agree that the parent is responsible for the child. Unfortunately, many parents suck. Do we just let that child slip through the cracks because she has crackhead parents?

At any rate, once that child becomes your patient, you have a DUTY to that child. And yes, that duty even includes intervening against the parents if you believe the parents are not acting in the child's best interests. Your duty is not to them. It is to the PATIENT.
 
I'm in my first year, and I admit it, I'm pretty unhappy so far. The reason is that I'm a stranger in a strange land. It seems like just about all of my classmates are blue-state, Volvo-driving, NPR-listening, New York Times-reading leftists who are passionate liberals on both "health" (i.e., socialized medicine, banning tobacco, taxing fatty foods, etc.) and general (same-sex marriage, abortion, taxes, etc.) issues. In addition, our school has a weekly seminar in which we've "learned" such gems as:

  • When seeing an adolescent patient, it's important to kick their parents out of the room so you can talk to them about their sexual activity and offer them contraception without their parents' knowledge
  • When seeing a female patient, it's important to ask her if she feels "safe at home" (i.e., accuse her husband, excuse me, "partner," of beating her)
  • A complete medical history includes a sexual history, and its' essential to ask the patient whether they are active with "men, women, or both" (even if it's a 75-year-old widow)
Of course, if the purpose of this is to liberalize us, it's pointless since all of my classmates except me are already 100% on board with it.

I know we live in a basically liberal society, but I didn't expect it to be this bad. I thought there might be some of this stuff in the air around me, this being a university and all, but it would be easy to just shrug it off and concentrate on studying medicine. But it's proven very demoralizing; it's hard to hunker down and study biochem pathways when you're constantly being reminded that all of your future colleagues, and even the very profession you're entering as a whole, are hell-bent on destroying Western civilization.

Are there any schools where it's not like this? Is anyone else in this situation, or is everyone reading this thread of the same mind as my classmates (i.e., thinking I'm an evil bigoted oppressive white male who fortunately is having the page of history turned on him and will soon die out as we usher in the glorious brave new world of global UN rule?)

Oh Amen brother... I hear you and stand aside you in solidarity.... oh, Amen!!!
 
I agree that the parent is responsible for the child. Unfortunately, many parents suck. Do we just let that child slip through the cracks because she has crackhead parents?

At any rate, once that child becomes your patient, you have a DUTY to that child. And yes, that duty even includes intervening against the parents if you believe the parents are not acting in the child's best interests. Your duty is not to them. It is to the PATIENT.


I do believe that a parent is responsible for a child - but like MattD just responded as well - as a physician, you have a major responsibility for their well-being too. This INCLUDES educating them about sex and their birth control options. That is not society being responsible for the child, it is their doctor.
 
I do believe that a parent is responsible for a child - but like MattD just responded as well - as a physician, you have a major responsibility for their well-being too. This INCLUDES educating them about sex and their birth control options. That is not society being responsible for the child, it is their doctor.

I am not disputing that point, I agree with you. I took issue with asking their parent to leave the room. However MattD does make a good point.
 
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I am not disputing that point, I agree with you. I took issue with asking their parent to leave the room. However MattD does make a good point.

Yeah, well, that 13 year old girl who's 8 months pregnant will be as virgin as Mother Mary in front of her daddy who's gonna give her a fat lip when she gets home if he finds out she's bumping uglies...
 
The way I see it, assuming certain people hold "conservative values" and not asking them about behavior that is considered more "liberal" could harm their health. Asking about the liberal behavior and having someone say "ick, anal sex!?" covers all your bases and hopefully means you get a complete history from every patient.
 
Although I do see the merits of some of the pt.-interaction stuff, my beef is more with the parts that the OP brought up that haven't yet been discussed: the more political/economic things like socialized health care. I'm disappointed with the minimal discourse about policy at my school, almost all of which is fairly one-sided. It's pretty frustrating when it seems that no one around here has even a basic training in ECON(or has forgotten it).

now that I think about it, we did have one lecture by a medical economist who briefly went over the economic impossibilities of providing maximum health care to everyone(i.e., care has a degree of scarcity- see panda and miamimed for similar sentiments). Unfortunately, it was only one lecture and kind of boring otherwise, so I don't think many people got the point:sleep:.

To the OP: I think that there are actually a decent amount of conservative(political as well as personal) students around my school, we all are just the quieter group... you know how it is.
 
Also, there are plenty of people who are homosexual. This has implications on possible disease.

Yeah. You never know when grandma is going to present with abdominal cramps and foul smelling stools positive for cysts and trophozoites w/ ventral suckers but no recent history of drinking from beaver infested streams.
 
I'm not sure how for real this post is, but the OP does bring up so interesting points.

There are just some overall things in medicine, that we are obligated by law to do, that ethically and morally I have a problem with. As a future father, I would really like know if my little girl is having sex or is pregnant. The first problem is that she isn't close enough to talk to you as a parent anymore; the second problem is that we as doctors are forced by law to perpetuate this secret. But, like a good law abiding future doctor, I'll obey, but there are many aspects in practice of medicine like this that really bothers me. I'm not sure if I can call this conservative or liberal, but it just bothers me.
 
Yeah. You never know when grandma is going to present with abdominal cramps and foul smelling stools positive for cysts and trophozoites w/ ventral suckers but no recent history of drinking from beaver infested streams.

I fail to see your point.........
 
I think he was just going for funny.

Actually. Substitute "35yo lawyer" for grandma. Ask "what is the next step in the management of this patient?" Then you have an exact question on my last shelf exam.
 
When seeing an adolescent patient, it's important to kick their parents out of the room so you can talk to them about their sexual activity and offer them contraception without their parents' knowledge

Let's say that the parent brings the child in with a sore throat which you think is a GC infection. Talking about this without the parent is key to both privacy and effective treatment/prevention.

When seeing a female patient, it's important to ask her if she feels "safe at home" (i.e., accuse her husband, excuse me, "partner," of beating her)

Your interview might be the only thing that prevents her next beating. More importantly, her reaction might be more telling that what she says.

A complete medical history includes a sexual history, and its' essential to ask the patient whether they are active with "men, women, or both" (even if it's a 75-year-old widow)

Of course it does. Should you ever cover an ER on a Saturday night, you will see plenty of young women present with abdominal pain, and a sexual etiology will be part of the differential that you must rule out if you plan to be an effective doctor.

...and even the very profession you're entering as a whole, are hell-bent on destroying Western civilization.

I'd like to think that acting in the best interest of your patients (not their parents nor their spouses) is part of the Western philosophy.

Are there any schools where it's not like this?

I hope not. Your medical school isn't a liberal medical school. It's just a medical school.

I'm disappointed with the minimal discourse about policy at my school, almost all of which is fairly one-sided. It's pretty frustrating when it seems that no one around here has even a basic training in ECON(or has forgotten it).

I agree with you here. While my admin acknowledges that students complain about getting little education regarding the business side of medicine, the optional lectures that they provide to address the problem yield less coverage of the issues doctors face than a day's worth of SDN posts.

As a future father, I would really like know if my little girl is having sex or is pregnant. The first problem is that she isn't close enough to talk to you as a parent anymore; the second problem is that we as doctors are forced by law to perpetuate this secret.

I agree with you that I would like to know about my child's sexual history, but I have to separate my role as a parent and my job as a doctor. If I see myself as having failed as a parent, I shouldn't expect a healthcare professional to compensate for my presumed error by violatng by daughter's privacy. When I'm on the clock, the word "secret" has no meaning to me. PHI is PHI. I would expect the same if I were a patient.

Actually. Substitute "35yo lawyer" for grandma. Ask "what is the next step in the management of this patient?" Then you have an exact question on my last shelf exam.

Ask if he will feel safe at home when his wife founds out how he got Giardia? :laugh:
 
When seeing an adolescent patient, it's important to kick their parents out of the room so you can talk to them about their sexual activity and offer them contraception without their parents' knowledge

Let's say that the parent brings the child in with a sore throat which you think is a GC infection. Talking about this without the parent is key to both privacy and effective treatment/prevention.

When seeing a female patient, it's important to ask her if she feels "safe at home" (i.e., accuse her husband, excuse me, "partner," of beating her)

Your interview might be the only thing that prevents her next beating. More importantly, her reaction might be more telling that what she says.

A complete medical history includes a sexual history, and its' essential to ask the patient whether they are active with "men, women, or both" (even if it's a 75-year-old widow)

Of course it does. Should you ever cover an ER on a Saturday night, you will see plenty of young women present with abdominal pain, and a sexual etiology will be part of the differential that you must rule out if you plan to be an effective doctor.

...and even the very profession you're entering as a whole, are hell-bent on destroying Western civilization.

I'd like to think that acting in the best interest of your patients (not their parents nor their spouses) is part of the Western philosophy.

Are there any schools where it's not like this?

I hope not. Your medical school isn't a liberal medical school. It's just a medical school.

I'm disappointed with the minimal discourse about policy at my school, almost all of which is fairly one-sided. It's pretty frustrating when it seems that no one around here has even a basic training in ECON(or has forgotten it).

I agree with you here. While my admin acknowledges that students complain about getting little education regarding the business side of medicine, the optional lectures that they provide to address the problem yield less coverage of the issues doctors face than a day's worth of SDN posts.

As a future father, I would really like know if my little girl is having sex or is pregnant. The first problem is that she isn't close enough to talk to you as a parent anymore; the second problem is that we as doctors are forced by law to perpetuate this secret.

I agree with you that I would like to know about my child's sexual history, but I have to separate my role as a parent and my job as a doctor. If I see myself as having failed as a parent, I shouldn't expect a healthcare professional to compensate for my presumed error by violatng by daughter's privacy. When I'm on the clock, the word "secret" has no meaning to me. PHI is PHI. I would expect the same if I were a patient.

Actually. Substitute "35yo lawyer" for grandma. Ask "what is the next step in the management of this patient?" Then you have an exact question on my last shelf exam.

Ask if he will feel safe at home when his wife founds out how he got Giardia? :laugh:
 
Is anyone else in this situation, or is everyone reading this thread of the same mind as my classmates (i.e., thinking I'm an evil bigoted oppressive white male who fortunately is having the page of history turned on him and will soon die out as we usher in the glorious brave new world of global UN rule?)

But you could always come on over to sociopolitical and talk to your fellow conserv-icans there.
 
Some of the things you are describing are legally mandated (i.e. reporting of abuse), some are just common sense. If you need to find out if a teenager is at risk for a certain activity (sex, drugs, whatever), you won't find out if the parent is in the room. The stepping out of the room doesn't relate to pushing contraception (although some folks use this opportunity to talk about it), but relates to whether you have to test for STDs, get the patient prenatal care or other MEDICAL issues, not social. Additionally, if the child is sexually active or pregnant, the child may not be a child under the law for certain purposes, and so the law (not the school) mandates certain privacy rights. In most cases, you could be violating the law talking about a pregnant woman's medical care in front of a third party without the woman's consent, because pregnancy results in emancipation of a minor in a lot of jurisdictions. Not because it's the school or profession saying so, but because your legislature has said so. And you won't know unless you ask in private. Seems like a smart move to avoid a privacy violation lawsuit. As far as asking about sex with "men, women or both", believe it or not there are a variety of bugs and conditions that are seen with certain couplings and not with others, so it helps you know what you are looking for. And actually a good percentage of the 75 year olds I have interviewed thus far have had multiple partner situations (a lot goes on at the retirement homes). I don't know how else to get this info without asking, but there is a medically valid reason for a doctor to know it. So no, while all educational systems have a liberal bias, the things you note are not school mandated and all have an independent, non-liberal reason for them. And so no, there are no med schools where you will not be expected to take a sexual history and follow the letter of the law in terms of things like abuse and patient autonomy.
 
So, basically, you're saying that you would prefer to put your own beliefs ahead of the health of a patient?
 
I'm in my first year, and I admit it, I'm pretty unhappy so far. The reason is that I'm a stranger in a strange land. It seems like just about all of my classmates are blue-state, Volvo-driving, NPR-listening, New York Times-reading leftists who are passionate liberals on both "health" (i.e., socialized medicine, banning tobacco, taxing fatty foods, etc.) and general (same-sex marriage, abortion, taxes, etc.) issues. In addition, our school has a weekly seminar in which we've "learned" such gems as:

  • When seeing an adolescent patient, it's important to kick their parents out of the room so you can talk to them about their sexual activity and offer them contraception without their parents' knowledge
  • When seeing a female patient, it's important to ask her if she feels "safe at home" (i.e., accuse her husband, excuse me, "partner," of beating her)
  • A complete medical history includes a sexual history, and its' essential to ask the patient whether they are active with "men, women, or both" (even if it's a 75-year-old widow)

Wow - the reason these issues are pushed is because people used to assume, like you do, that these aren't significant issues. And so doctor's missed cases of domestic abuse, STDs, etc.

Part of being a doctor is being an advocate for your patients. Abstinence-only education has been shown to be a HUGE failure and almost 1 in 4 women will experience sexual abuse at some point in their life. You can choose to believe that almost no women are abused or that kids need parental/physician encouragement to have sex, but epi studies have shown this is not the case.
 
As I expected, no one understood my complaints about the three points from our soft-skills seminar I mentioned, but many people responded. I can't reply to everyone, so I'll just take MattD's post as representative and reply to that.

You're certainly welcome to hold whatever social and political views you like, as are your classmates. However, regarding the educational points you bring up, the goal is not to liberalize you, or to sway your beliefs in any way. The goal is to remote a bit of your naivete, which apparently you need.
It is an integral aspect of cultural liberalism to believe that those who hold to traditional morality are naive. If the goal is to remove my naivete, that reflects liberal assumptions. But why do you think that I am naive? Do you think I do not know that there are teenagers who are sexually active without their parents' knowledge, that there are battered women, that there are homosexuals? I know all of those things.

Furthermore, if the goal of the class is to remove students' "naivete" (naivete meaning belief in traditional morality), this seminar must be way beyond the point of diminishing returns, because as I said, 99% of my class already agrees wholeheartedly. Is the purpose to waste 2 hours a week of everyone's time, because it's that important to, uh, enlighten us remaining 1%?

The goal here is not to undermine the parents values and encourage the teen to sleep around. The fact is that while some teens are not sexually active, many are, either with or without the parent's knowledge. Sexual health and history is a very important part of your exam, and for you to help the teen achieve his/her optimal health, you need accurate and honest information about their sexual history. This is something they may feel the need to lie about in front of their parents. This is the ONLY reason you are asking the parents to leave. To facilitate honest communication. If you feel that it is important that the teen discuss this issue with the parents, you are free to encourage the teen to do so, but remember, he/she is your patient, and confidentiality applies.
My specific objection to this is the rule that the parents cannot be told if the adolescent doesn't want them to. You can say that's not liberalism, it's just optimal health, but liberalism promotes individual moral autonomy over traditional authority structures. If the laws have been modified such that dependent minors are now considered to have a legal right to privacy against their parents, that is a liberal development. Parents have authority over their children. They should have the right to know what their kids are up to.

Look, I have spent years observing liberals and closely analyzing their beliefs, statements, and thought processes. This is not about maxmizing health; it's about the belief in individual liberation from traditional authority. The overwhelming sense I got from my classmates when these topics were being discussed was the typical rebellious teenager attitude that parents are bad, they're clueless old fuddy-duddys who just don't understand the realities of life, they want to stop their kids from having fun, they are the enemy. These people's committment to sexual liberation is deeper than their commitment to health.

Sadly, many women ARE in abusive relationships. This can be uncomfortable to acknowledge and certainly is a tough thing to discuss. But the fact is, many women are abused and many women will not necessarily volunteer this information. Again, remember that it is your job to advocate for and fight for her safety and health. This means that if you have any suspicion AT ALL that somethign like this may be going on, it's your responsibility to delve into it. This doesn't mean you're 'accusing' someone. It just means you're checking off all the possibilities. While it may be uncomfortable, the first time you find out that someone IS being beaten and can help that woman, you'll understand why it's worth it.
My objection here is that this is not presented as something you should investigate if you have a reason to suspect it; it's presented as routine "screening" that should be done to all patients. I understand if a woman comes in with bruises and her eyes get shifty if you ask here where they came from. But these people really believe that if a woman comes to the ER with a kidney stone and is accompanied by her husband, no matter how pleasant and apparently happy together they are, you need to kick the husband out of the room to ask the wife about domestic violence.

If you think the only danger in being over-agressive is getting a reaction of "ick, anal sex" as one other poster put it, read this blog entry sparked by a Boston Herald article and the commments on the article. Notice the people talking about refusing to take their kids to a pediatrician because pediatricians are now "screening" kids by asking questions about their parents' drinking, gun ownership, and whether their fathers make them feel uncomfortable. Notice the story in the Herald article (no longer available on the Herald site, but bloggers have reposted it) from the woman whose kids' pediatrician filed a police report about her LEGAL gun ownership. I can't find it now, but there was a story from a guy in the comments of the Herald article about how he took his wife to the ER because she had a bad headache. Once she was taken to a room, a nurse called him to the front desk ostensibly to ask him some billing questions. The questions were so vague and purposeless that he immediately suspected that the only reason for them was to get him out of the room. When he returned to his wife, she told him that the very first thing they'd done when he left was ask her if she was feeling safe at home.

One of my "facilitators" for this liberal seminar is a female family doc. She told us that when a woman comes to her for a pregnancy test, if the, uh, "partner" accompanies her, she always kicks him out of the room to give the woman the results, even if the couple came to the visit together for the express purpose of finding out whether she was pregnant. You can argue that all of her patients are poor black people so the incidence of abuse is higher, but of course, no one's saying THAT. This is being promoted as the standard for everyone. I would hope that if I ever get married, it would be to a woman who'd have the good sense to say, "no, I want him to stay, that's why we came together," and if the doc still objects, to say "screw you, we're outta here."

A complete medical history DOES include a sexual history. Do you think that just because that 75 year old hasn't had sex in the last week, that means that nothing in her sexual history could possibly have an impact on her current health? More importantly, do you really think that a 75 year old widow can't possibly be currently having sex? Plenty do.. :) And good for them! Being a widow doesn't mean SHE'S dead, after all, who's to say she hasn't met someone new! Also, there are plenty of people who are homosexual. This has implications on possible disease. There are plenty of bisexuals. ditto. Lots of people have been raped, both by the opposite sex and the same sex. This is important to know. These things are important to know so that you can insure that their sex lives are healthy and fulfilling. they're important to know so you can be aware of the potential for stds and other sexually related disorders. They're even important to know because sexual dysfunction can be a sign of other, non sexually related, disorders such as heart disease.
I didn't say the concept of a sexual history was wrong or invalid. Again, what I'm objecting to is that the "men, women, or both" question is being promoted as part of routine care for everyone. A happy, well-adusted, 50-year-old man who tells you he's happily married and has a great relationship with his wife comes to see you because he's been having heart palpitations; you ask him if he's sexually active with anyone other than his wife. Ridiculous. You can bet my reaction would be to find another doctor. There's no medical reason to ask a happily married person whose presenting complaint has no association with any sexually transmitted disease or anything else sexual whether they have homosexual sex. This is not health-related in motivation. This is based in the liberal belief that normality, that sane, healthy, civilized life, is a facade, that it's never real, that it's always barely covering up some deep social pathology, that underneath the surface of pleasant, "white bread" life we are really all hypocrites and libertines, slaves to our animal passions. See the constant liberal demonization of Leave It To Beaver as unrealistic, or the movie Pleasantville. You know what I'm talking about. THAT's why you ask absolutely every patient in every situation whether they have gay sex.

And now I can't help responding to Law2Doc's post, because I always dislike them so much.
Law2Doc said:
Some of the things you are describing are legally mandated (i.e. reporting of abuse), some are just common sense.
I said nothing about reporting abuse. What I am objecting to is attacking the foundations of civilized society by accusing men of whom one has no reason to suspect anything of wife-beating and child-molesting.

Additionally, if the child is sexually active or pregnant, the child may not be a child under the law for certain purposes, and so the law (not the school) mandates certain privacy rights. In most cases, you could be violating the law talking about a pregnant woman's medical care in front of a third party without the woman's consent, because pregnancy results in emancipation of a minor in a lot of jurisdictions. Not because it's the school or profession saying so, but because your legislature has said so.
Oh, right, that must be why we were told "unfortunately, however much we all disagree with it, that is the law; it would be nice if the law weren't so destructive of society and we should work to change it, but for the time being, we must comply." :rolleyes:

The school, my classmates, and the profession ARE saying so. They agree with the liberal motivations of the law, think Christian sexual morality is evil, want to destroy traditional Western civilization, and are happy for any help they can get in doing so.
 
The school, my classmates, and the profession ARE saying so. They agree with the liberal motivations of the law, think Christian sexual morality is evil, want to destroy traditional Western civilization, and are happy for any help they can get in doing so.
Have you ever considered the possibility that you are being a bit radical in your interpretations?

FYI, if allowing transmission of STI's to kids, refusing to inquire about abuse, and not asking someone's sexual history are all aspects of Christian sexual morality and traditional Western civilization then I hope you're right and we are destroying both.
 
Overall, you are missing one important point; if the patient doesn't want them to leave, you can't make them. Your goal is to get as much information as possible, and that often requires a one-on-one conversation. You'd be amazed how many people are abused, cheating on their spouses, on drugs, etc.. or how many kids are sexually active without their significant other's/parents' knowledge. That stuff only comes out one-on-one.

My specific objection to this is the rule that the parents cannot be told if the adolescent doesn't want them to. You can say that's not liberalism, it's just optimal health, but liberalism promotes individual moral autonomy over traditional authority structures. If the laws have been modified such that dependent minors are now considered to have a legal right to privacy against their parents, that is a liberal development. Parents have authority over their children. They should have the right to know what their kids are up to.

Look, I have spent years observing liberals and closely analyzing their beliefs, statements, and thought processes. This is not about maxmizing health; it's about the belief in individual liberation from traditional authority. The overwhelming sense I got from my classmates when these topics were being discussed was the typical rebellious teenager attitude that parents are bad, they're clueless old fuddy-duddys who just don't understand the realities of life, they want to stop their kids from having fun, they are the enemy. These people's committment to sexual liberation is deeper than their commitment to health.

The goal isn't to promote individual moral autonomy, it is to get information important to your evaluation of the patient that the patient may not reveal with the parents present. I have had several female patients at the children's hospital with RLQ pain that the ED felt was appendicitis. On my history, after having the parents not in the room, I found out they have been sexually active and actually had PID instead of appendicitis. The ED folk didn't get that from them because their parents were in the room. It was my commitment to their health that spared them an operation. However, you are right in that if the patient or the parents don't agree to leave, you can't make them. Still, you should always ask them to step out.

My objection here is that this is not presented as something you should investigate if you have a reason to suspect it; it's presented as routine "screening" that should be done to all patients. I understand if a woman comes in with bruises and her eyes get shifty if you ask here where they came from. But these people really believe that if a woman comes to the ER with a kidney stone and is accompanied by her husband, no matter how pleasant and apparently happy together they are, you need to kick the husband out of the room to ask the wife about domestic violence.

Again, talk about this when you've been in the clinic or ED. Your goal is to find out all the information you can to better treat your patient. Bruises and broken bones aren't the only signs of abuse. It is important to learn this, and this is something valuable your "super liberal" classmates can learn from this class, too. Most physicians would feel terrible if their patient ended up dead or terribly injured due to abuse and you could have done something to stop it had you simply asked. You may be one to say "well, not my problem because they didn't ask for my help," but most people wouldn't see it that way. It is important to teach those people who do care that they can and should ask these questions.

If you think the only danger in being over-agressive is getting a reaction of "ick, anal sex" as one other poster put it, read this blog entry sparked by a Boston Herald article and the commments on the article. Notice the people talking about refusing to take their kids to a pediatrician because pediatricians are now "screening" kids by asking questions about their parents' drinking, gun ownership, and whether their fathers make them feel uncomfortable. Notice the story in the Herald article (no longer available on the Herald site, but bloggers have reposted it) from the woman whose kids' pediatrician filed a police report about her LEGAL gun ownership. I can't find it now, but there was a story from a guy in the comments of the Herald article about how he took his wife to the ER because she had a bad headache. Once she was taken to a room, a nurse called him to the front desk ostensibly to ask him some billing questions. The questions were so vague and purposeless that he immediately suspected that the only reason for them was to get him out of the room. When he returned to his wife, she told him that the very first thing they'd done when he left was ask her if she was feeling safe at home.

I agree that some are taking it too far, but the basic tenets of doing what is best for your patient are not lost in taking histories without other people present.

One of my "facilitators" for this liberal seminar is a female family doc. She told us that when a woman comes to her for a pregnancy test, if the, uh, "partner" accompanies her, she always kicks him out of the room to give the woman the results, even if the couple came to the visit together for the express purpose of finding out whether she was pregnant. You can argue that all of her patients are poor black people so the incidence of abuse is higher, but of course, no one's saying THAT. This is being promoted as the standard for everyone. I would hope that if I ever get married, it would be to a woman who'd have the good sense to say, "no, I want him to stay, that's why we came together," and if the doc still objects, to say "screw you, we're outta here."
I think she was being dramatic; you can't "kick someone out;" if the patient doesn't want the person to leave, the patient can leave and then the physician is left without a patient. The patient has to allow the s/o to leave.

I didn't say the concept of a sexual history was wrong or invalid. Again, what I'm objecting to is that the "men, women, or both" question is being promoted as part of routine care for everyone. A happy, well-adusted, 50-year-old man who tells you he's happily married and has a great relationship with his wife comes to see you because he's been having heart palpitations; you ask him if he's sexually active with anyone other than his wife. Ridiculous. You can bet my reaction would be to find another doctor. There's no medical reason to ask a happily married person whose presenting complaint has no association with any sexually transmitted disease or anything else sexual whether they have homosexual sex.

Tertiary syphilis. Look it up, know-it-all.


This is not health-related in motivation. This is based in the liberal belief that normality, that sane, healthy, civilized life, is a facade, that it's never real, that it's always barely covering up some deep social pathology, that underneath the surface of pleasant, "white bread" life we are really all hypocrites and libertines, slaves to our animal passions.

No, it is understanding that other alternatives to the white-bread life do exist, and to close your eyes to it and pretend everyone is like you will result in incomplete treatment of your patients.
 
dumbest post of all time. The OP is one step from examining patients from behind a curtain with a mirror (i.e. liberal Taliban)
 
And now I can't help responding to Law2Doc's post, because I always dislike them so much.

I said nothing about reporting abuse. What I am objecting to is attacking the foundations of civilized society by accusing men of whom one has no reason to suspect anything of wife-beating and child-molesting.


Oh, right, that must be why we were told "unfortunately, however much we all disagree with it, that is the law; it would be nice if the law weren't so destructive of society and we should work to change it, but for the time being, we must comply." :rolleyes:

The school, my classmates, and the profession ARE saying so. They agree with the liberal motivations of the law, think Christian sexual morality is evil, want to destroy traditional Western civilization, and are happy for any help they can get in doing so.

Again this has nothing to do with liberal vs conservative. The history is taken to find out things. Most of the information necessary for treatment comes from a good and candid history. How do you know if abuse is occurring without asking? (And no, we aren't assuming any is, or casting aspersions on a spouse by asking this, just confirming that it isn't. And nothing stops you from asking this to men too -- I've seen some docs who do. But you don't ask, you never know. And the role of doctor has evolved to include safeguarding this kind of thing. You ask about safety in the home, you ask about seatbelts and smoke detectors. It's a public safety approach to medicine.). How do you know if someone is sexually active, pregnant, on drugs, or other dangerous behavior without asking in a situation most likely to get a truthful answer (ie with a parent not present)? It doesn't matter if you agree with the acts or morals of the patients (most of us don't identify with drug addicts, high risk sexual practicers, teen pregnancies), your job is get information necessary to render treatment, and to treat the patient who finds their way into these situations. You can't know if you don't ask. Nobody is asking you to agree with or condone the actions of your patients, nor does the school have an agenda to make you do so. I promise you that your school isn't making you take a history out of a liberal agenda by the school or the profession, they are having you take a history because after hundreds of years of medicine this is still the most effective and cost efficient tool with which to render appropriate treatment. Your school is expecting you to (1) obey the law, and (2) obtain adequate information to treat the patients. Your approach does neither. That isn't an issue of liberal vs conservative. That's an issue of sound practices versus folly.

I'm pretty sure that treating sick or infected people and stopping abuse don't run afoul of Christian values. Heck, a lot of the battered women's centers around here are run by religious organizations. And a lot of hospitals with religious affiliations provide treatment for folks with STDs and other sexually related ailments, whether they be adults or minors.
 
I think the above poster needs to remeber that being a doctor isn't about him and what he considers right/worng or what makes him uncomfortable, but doing what is in the best interest of his patient. Those three examples you gave are all for your patients well being not yours, my school likes to tell us nobody cares about how you feel its only about your patient and doing whats best for them. Its not our place to stand on a platform and decided whats best for our patients but to lay out all the options and let them decide.
 
I think the above poster needs to remeber that being a doctor isn't about him and what he considers right/worng or what makes him uncomfortable, but doing what is in the best interest of his patient. Those three examples you gave are all for your patients well being not yours, my school likes to tell us nobody cares about how you feel its only about your patient and doing whats best for them. Its not our place to stand on a platform and decided whats best for our patients but to lay out all the options and let them decide.

Yes. And to lay out all the options, you need to ask enough questions to ascertain the situation. In some cases not doing so may even subject you to liability.
 
I think the above poster needs to remeber that being a doctor isn't about him and what he considers right/worng or what makes him uncomfortable, but doing what is in the best interest of his patient. Those three examples you gave are all for your patients well being not yours, my school likes to tell us nobody cares about how you feel its only about your patient and doing whats best for them. Its not our place to stand on a platform and decided whats best for our patients but to lay out all the options and let them decide.

:thumbup: If your dogmatic beliefs are getting in the way of good practice of medicine, perhaps becoming a physician isn't the best option.
 
Again this has nothing to do with liberal vs conservative. The history is taken to find out things. Most of the information necessary for treatment comes from a good and candid history. How do you know if abuse is occurring without asking? (And no, we aren't assuming any is, or casting aspersions on a spouse by asking this, just confirming that it isn't. And nothing stops you from asking this to men too -- I've seen some docs who do. But you don't ask, you never know. And the role of doctor has evolved to include safeguarding this kind of thing. You ask about safety in the home, you ask about seatbelts and smoke detectors. It's a public safety approach to medicine.). How do you know if someone is sexually active, pregnant, on drugs, or other dangerous behavior without asking in a situation most likely to get a truthful answer (ie with a parent not present)? It doesn't matter if you agree with the acts or morals of the patients (most of us don't identify with drug addicts, high risk sexual practicers, teen pregnancies), your job is get information necessary to render treatment, and to treat the patient who finds their way into these situations. You can't know if you don't ask. Nobody is asking you to agree with or condone the actions of your patients, nor does the school have an agenda to make you do so. I promise you that your school isn't making you take a history out of a liberal agenda by the school or the profession, they are having you take a history because after hundreds of years of medicine this is still the most effective and cost efficient tool with which to render appropriate treatment. Your school is expecting you to (1) obey the law, and (2) obtain adequate information to treat the patients. Your approach does neither. That isn't an issue of liberal vs conservative. That's an issue of sound practices versus folly.

I'm pretty sure that treating sick or infected people and stopping abuse don't run afoul of Christian values. Heck, a lot of the battered women's centers around here are run by religious organizations. And a lot of hospitals with religious affiliations provide treatment for folks with STDs and other sexually related ailments, whether they be adults or minors.

Law2doc is almost always on point with his posts. i haven't read all of this thread so ignore this if it has already been posted.

Who said that asking if you are safe at home automatically refers to he husband? It could be another family member, neighbor, caretaker and probably many other people i can't think of right now. How many cases of nursing home abuse are reported each year? I think they definitely need to ask if they feel safe at home(where ever that might be i.e. nursing home, with relatives, etc.)
 
:thumbup: If your dogmatic beliefs are getting in the way of good practice of medicine, perhaps becoming a physician isn't the best option.

Exactly. I never get why folks would ever want to join a profession they so clearly despise. It's not like you can be a doctor but not be a member of the medical profession because you don't agree with it. Sort of like a pacifist who decides enlisting in the marines is a good idea.
 
I'm in my first year, and I admit it, I'm pretty unhappy so far. The reason is that I'm a stranger in a strange land. It seems like just about all of my classmates are blue-state, Volvo-driving, NPR-listening, New York Times-reading leftists who are passionate liberals on both "health" (i.e., socialized medicine, banning tobacco, taxing fatty foods, etc.) and general (same-sex marriage, abortion, taxes, etc.) issues. In addition, our school has a weekly seminar in which we've "learned" such gems as:
  • When seeing an adolescent patient, it's important to kick their parents out of the room so you can talk to them about their sexual activity and offer them contraception without their parents' knowledge
  • When seeing a female patient, it's important to ask her if she feels "safe at home" (i.e., accuse her husband, excuse me, "partner," of beating her)
  • A complete medical history includes a sexual history, and its' essential to ask the patient whether they are active with "men, women, or both" (even if it's a 75-year-old widow)
Of course, if the purpose of this is to liberalize us, it's pointless since all of my classmates except me are already 100% on board with it.

I know we live in a basically liberal society, but I didn't expect it to be this bad. I thought there might be some of this stuff in the air around me, this being a university and all, but it would be easy to just shrug it off and concentrate on studying medicine. But it's proven very demoralizing; it's hard to hunker down and study biochem pathways when you're constantly being reminded that all of your future colleagues, and even the very profession you're entering as a whole, are hell-bent on destroying Western civilization.

Are there any schools where it's not like this? Is anyone else in this situation, or is everyone reading this thread of the same mind as my classmates (i.e., thinking I'm an evil bigoted oppressive white male who fortunately is having the page of history turned on him and will soon die out as we usher in the glorious brave new world of global UN rule?)


US medical schools select for left-wing pre-meds. Sure, a few independents (me!) and right-wingers (you?) get in, but what do you think those personal statements are for? I know they ain't looking for Shakespeare.
 
I'm in my first year, and I admit it, I'm pretty unhappy so far. The reason is that I'm a stranger in a strange land. It seems like just about all of my classmates are blue-state, Volvo-driving, NPR-listening, New York Times-reading leftists who are passionate liberals on both "health" (i.e., socialized medicine, banning tobacco, taxing fatty foods, etc.) and general (same-sex marriage, abortion, taxes, etc.) issues. In addition, our school has a weekly seminar in which we've "learned" such gems as:
  • When seeing an adolescent patient, it's important to kick their parents out of the room so you can talk to them about their sexual activity and offer them contraception without their parents' knowledge
  • When seeing a female patient, it's important to ask her if she feels "safe at home" (i.e., accuse her husband, excuse me, "partner," of beating her)
  • A complete medical history includes a sexual history, and its' essential to ask the patient whether they are active with "men, women, or both" (even if it's a 75-year-old widow)
Of course, if the purpose of this is to liberalize us, it's pointless since all of my classmates except me are already 100% on board with it.

I know we live in a basically liberal society, but I didn't expect it to be this bad. I thought there might be some of this stuff in the air around me, this being a university and all, but it would be easy to just shrug it off and concentrate on studying medicine. But it's proven very demoralizing; it's hard to hunker down and study biochem pathways when you're constantly being reminded that all of your future colleagues, and even the very profession you're entering as a whole, are hell-bent on destroying Western civilization.

Are there any schools where it's not like this? Is anyone else in this situation, or is everyone reading this thread of the same mind as my classmates (i.e., thinking I'm an evil bigoted oppressive white male who fortunately is having the page of history turned on him and will soon die out as we usher in the glorious brave new world of global UN rule?)

The sarcastic/pretentious doubting of the honesty of the OP is obnoxious. Stop it.
 
Dear OP. When you grow up out of first year and quit viewing the world through some sort of accusatory conspiratory filter, maybe you'll understand a bit of WHY things are done. Believe me, as much as you seem to like to create this huge, all encompassing mind-washing philosophy that you've "studied" called "liberalism", it's not so cut and dry. Even amongst liberals, there is much differentiation. Not to mention that *gasp* even if you disagree with them on everything, it IS possible that some of those "ideas" you call "liberal" are actually...good? Okay? For a different purpose than you purport?

1. Sexual history for adolescents with parents out of the room is NOT so much for protection of privacy, but as was stated elsewhere, for obtaining a full history and accuracy of differentials. Try and get sexual history from a 15 year-old when mom is in the room. As for whether the parents should know what you tell them? Don't know, don't care. My job isn't to enforce, but to listen and treat. That's between kid and parents.

2. The "Are you safe at home" comment is NOT accusatory. If every incident of abuse happened within a set stereotypical scheme of things, then you'd have a point. Unfortunately, not every woman lives in a trailer with a beer-swilling wrestling fan with a mullet. Abuse happens across social and *gasp* even religious spectrums. Most abuse goes unreported, and often women will not go into the doctor when they have bruises. Once you get to your OB/GYN rotation, you'll soon learn that nearly 25% of all pregnant women who go to the ER for vague pain/contraction problems are there due to abuse. The classic "I fell down the stairs 3 days ago but my husband is on night shift and I was worried so I came in" story. Trust me, it happens more than you think. So it is asked in order to make sure it ISN'T missed. It's not accusatory. It's asking a question.

3. I had to ask that famous question of "do you enjoy sex with men, women or both?" to all the women on my Gyn onc rotation. Were some embarrassed? Sure. But you'd be surprised at the 85yo widowed woman who has been enjoying 2 or 3 different sexual partners at the retirement home. Sometimes with same sex. You'd really be surprised. Not to mention, as was said before, I've interviewed elderly men at the VA when their wife was out of the room, found out that 45 years ago they cheated on their wives ONCE and ONLY ONCE with some prostitute in a foreign port. Now? Tertiary syphillis. Herpes. Chancroid. Etc.

SO, what I'm basically saying is this: Some advice.

Reach your hands into your pants, grab that tuft of hair firmly, and pull your cranium out of your rectum and realize that this "grand conspiracy" of which you've given us shining examples. All which have been refuted against your un-experienced logic of fallacies. As someone who is quite conservative themselves (ie ME), you play the fool for all of us. Most students at my school tend to lean "right", and none of them have any problems with the stuff you've mentioned. So perhaps you should spend more time trying to learn WHY you learn this stuff instead of creating vast sociopolitical dialogues against some fantasy "liberal agenda", and realize that there may be SOME reason why such things occur. Either that, or some day some attending with 25 years of experience in a given field will tire of your pedantic rhetoric and metaphorically knock you down a peg or too. And trust me, you don't want to be any lower...hospital floors are disgusting.
 
My med school is very conservative and we are taught to take good patient history and make sure we ask personal questions. If you feel uncomfortable dealing with spousal abuse or sexual activity of those engaged in 'sexual sin', then you are in the wrong business.

It's not accusing anyone of anything when you ask if someone has been sexually active or been abused at home. I get asked that question when I see my OB. I am unmarried and she knows it. But as my gynocologist, she wants to make sure I am not in danger of catching any STDs or unwanted pregnancies. A good doctor don't assume that their patients have the same morals as them. They must ask their patients to ascertain any behaviors which may cause harm to the patient, even if it's distasteful.

You have limited time and patients will not always be straight forward about these things so you ASK THEM. One thing my preceptor, who work in an urban hospital, tells me is that patients will sometimes lie or not explain things completely, but which may be vital to their health. As doctors, you have to learn the trick of asking them the same questions multiple times in different ways to get a complete picture of their health. He demonstrated my sorry talent at patient history taking when we interviewed a patient and I got a bunch of useless information out but failed to get at the root of his problem (which he later showed me as taken by presumably other doctors). Every girl that comes in is a potential pregnancy as one of my professor say because half of all births are unplanned. We can either be polite and wait until the girl is ready to give birth to an underweight premie with a spina bifida or we can be 'liberal' and be upfront about their pregnancy, willing to protect their privacy if need be and make sure they take their folic acid and see a doctor about prenatal health. Isn't the unborn important to so-called 'cultural conservatives'?

Also, you may want to stick around at a county hospital ER to see some surprisingly things......
 
The OP is going to blow a gasket when he finds out how many "liberal answers" he's going to have to give to medical ethics and behavioral health questions on Step 1.
 
um.... there's nothing wrong with asking a woman if she feels safe at home. You make it sound like asking is accusing the husband of being a wife beater. It's just asking. Many women don't feel safe at home and are too afraid to say. If you suspect there's a reason to ask, ask. You seem to think its laughable that a good conservative husband would actually beat his wife.
I've known a conservative guy who beat his wife. She put his ass in jail. Good for her.

2.) 75 year old widows SHOULD be asked about sexual activity. Haven't you ever heard of the STD outbreaks among olderpopulations? The way AIDS has run rampant in the 70+'s. What, it's not a conservative thing to do? I have Republican stamped on my voter registration card, but just because I believe in capitalism doesn't mean that I believe Grandma Betty's celibate. She's not.
Good for her ;)
 
You can say that's not liberalism, it's just optimal health, but liberalism promotes individual moral autonomy over traditional authority structures.

I hate to tell you this, but I think you lost this battle starting with The Enlightenment. Don't blame feminists for the fact that we don't live in a theocracy and that our national values favor individual autonomy and democratic thought.
 
"do you enjoy sex with men, women or both?"

I honestly don't understand the clinical utility of asking this question. Sure it might make a homo/bi/trisexual feel more comfortable, but it could offend/embarrass other patients as well. So the rapport building argument doesn't hold. Who really needs to know your sexual preference for a routine medical hx?

If it's medical relevant info you're after, why beat around the bush? You're gonna ask about specific contact anyway for your ddx. "Maam, have you engaged in oral-anal contact recently? Sir, have you inserted anything into your rectum?"

Who cares who the patient likes to ****?
 
I honestly don't understand the clinical utility of asking this question. Sure it might make a homo/bi/trisexual feel more comfortable, but it could offend/embarrass other patients as well. So the rapport building argument doesn't hold. Who really needs to know your sexual preference for a routine medical hx?

Different couplings tend to have different likelihoods of different infections. If your patient is straight you might rule some things out that might be prevalent if s/he isn't. has nothing to do with rapport -- you need the info.
 
Different couplings tend to have different likelihoods of different infections. If your patient is straight you might rule some things out that might be prevalent if s/he isn't. has nothing to do with rapport -- you need the info.

Do you have examples/evidence?
 
Its not liberalism (or conservatism for that matter) that you are encountering. Its reality.

Get over it, some young teenagers ****, Baptist women have lesbian 4somes, and domestic violence is very prevalent. You aren't in touch with reality if you think you can easily judge people's histories based on their appearances.
 
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