Applying to two different specialties at related institutions

[zaphod7]

Hi all,

From what I've heard about residency applications, it is not a good idea to apply to the same institution for two different specialties because they may/are likely to find out and question your committment. My question is if anyone has any information as to what counts as one institution i.e. when this is a likely/unlikely scenario.

Just by way of an example, if I were to apply to:

Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Jacobi/Montefiore) Program
Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Moses and Weiler Campuses) Program
Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Wakefield Campus) Program
Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine Program

Would each of them be likely to know whether I applied/what I applied for at the other programs, or is it strictly within the program itself? I've seen an older post from 2010 suggesting this is unlikely, but just wanted to see if anyone had any more recent thoughts on this?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

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[bashwell]

Hi all,

From what I've heard about residency applications, it is not a good idea to apply to the same institution for two different specialties because they may/are likely to find out and question your committment. My question is if anyone has any information as to what counts as one institution i.e. when this is a likely/unlikely scenario.

Just by way of an example, if I were to apply to:

Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Jacobi/Montefiore) Program
Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Moses and Weiler Campuses) Program
Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Wakefield Campus) Program
Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine Program

Would each of them be likely to know whether I applied/what I applied for at the other programs, or is it strictly within the program itself? I've seen an older post from 2010 suggesting this is unlikely, but just wanted to see if anyone had any more recent thoughts on this?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

1) I think there's always going to be a non-zero chance you'll get caught, even if it's a very low chance. For example, if there's only a 10% chance you'll get caught, would you take the risk? I guess that depends how badly you want the specialty or backup specialty at the specific residency you're applying to.

2) You could risk it and apply to both, but if you get interviews for both specialties, then I'd suggest only taking 1 interview.

 

[zaphod7]

Thank you for replying so quickly, bashwell. I agree it's about risk assessment, and ultimately deciding how to balance that.

I guess one of the things I was particularly trying to get at is how admissions is structured at an institutional level. Coming from abroad, I don't really know whether places that share the same name tend to share the same administrative staff for pre-processing the applications for the committees, etc.

I assume, for example, that the various schools of the UC system have completely separate admissions offices, as would probably the various SUNY locations. I'm pretty sure NYP-Columbia and NYP-Weill do also. On the other hand, do the various Mount Sinai or Montefiore affiliates rely on one office to process applications? I figure this would make a significant difference in assessing whether the risk is 30% or 1%. I just don't have much of a sense of this...

Thank you again for your help - I am very grateful.

 

[Amygdarya]

Resident applications are reviewed/processed by individual programs. This is true for same specialty programs under the same umbrella academic affiliation (eg. there are now 5 Harvard-affiliated psychiatry programs, and all of these programs review only applications to their individual programs), and this is even more true for programs in different specialties.

However, there's always a chance for you to, say, bump into a faculty you interviewed with at a different location during an interview day for another specialty. It's not uncommon for faculty to work at more than one location. This is just one example of how you may be "caught". As mentioned above, it's up to you whether to accept it or not.

 

[zaphod7]

Thank you very much for your answer, Amygdarya. That makes a lot of sense - you are right I should factor geographic distance and shared faculty (as well as Murphy's law) into the equation.

I ask the following not because I'm doubting you are right, but because I would like to try and figure this out for each other program: how did you determine that the various psych programs at Harvard review only their own applications?

Thank you so much for your advice!

 

[Amygdarya]

I ask the following not because I'm doubting you are right, but because I would like to try and figure this out for each other program: how did you determine that the various psych programs at Harvard review only their own applications?

Because *all* programs review only applications to their program. I brought up Harvard psych programs just as an example. But the thing is, PDs and PCs and whoever else has access to ERAS applications on the program side only have access to applications to their program.

Academic clinicians are overworked and underpaid and are not getting anything extra for participation in resident selection. Why should/would they ever review applications to anything other than their own program? Not to mention all the possible conflicts of interest. This just doesn't make sense.

 

[killerleaf]

We don't see where else you applied, and we can't ask where you are also interviewing--unless you tell us. However, do understand that Program Coordinators and Program Directors do talk to each other. If a candidate is a no show, that makes our day very miserable, and we may talk with our counterparts, just to vent. The same for an interviewee acting badly (like getting drunk at the dinner the night before) and you can be certain that they will then check to see if you are scheduled with them. So...if you do schedule interviews at the same institution (different specialties) or same specialty but different institutions, keep it in mind--show up when you are supposed to, and behave. If you do that, then there is not a problem.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Jacobi/Montefiore) Program
Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Moses and Weiler Campuses) Program
Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Wakefield Campus) Program
Montefiore Medical Center/Albert Einstein College of Medicine Program

Someone please correct me if I've wrong, but I think these are distinct programs at different institutions (read: different hospitals). You should feel safe about applying to any number of these.

I think this is distinctly different from applying to two different programs within the same institution - for example: Internal Medicine AND Family Medicine at the main Einstein campus.

 

[zaphod7]

Dear Amygdara, thank you for your answer! That makes a lot of sense - I do take all of your points, and you have certainly reassured me. Thank you.

Killerleaf, thanks also for confirming this. I do intend to behave!

AdmiralChz, thank you too! That is a very clear answer indeed.

I think the reason this was so unclear to me beforehand is that where I'm from things tend to be structured very differently, so that's where my concerns arose.

Thanks to you all for the help!

 

[Dr. Stable-Genius]

Thank you for replying so quickly, bashwell. I agree it's about risk assessment, and ultimately deciding how to balance that.

I guess one of the things I was particularly trying to get at is how admissions is structured at an institutional level. Coming from abroad, I don't really know whether places that share the same name tend to share the same administrative staff for pre-processing the applications for the committees, etc.

I assume, for example, that the various schools of the UC system have completely separate admissions offices, as would probably the various SUNY locations. I'm pretty sure NYP-Columbia and NYP-Weill do also. On the other hand, do the various Mount Sinai or Montefiore affiliates rely on one office to process applications? I figure this would make a significant difference in assessing whether the risk is 30% or 1%. I just don't have much of a sense of this...

Thank you again for your help - I am very grateful.

I share your curiosity

 

[Dr. Stable-Genius]

We don't see where else you applied, and we can't ask where you are also interviewing--unless you tell us. However, do understand that Program Coordinators and Program Directors do talk to each other. If a candidate is a no show, that makes our day very miserable, and we may talk with our counterparts, just to vent. The same for an interviewee acting badly (like getting drunk at the dinner the night before) and you can be certain that they will then check to see if you are scheduled with them. So...if you do schedule interviews at the same institution (different specialties) or same specialty but different institutions, keep it in mind--show up when you are supposed to, and behave. If you do that, then there is not a problem.

This is killer insight. Thanks for sharing