Applying for radiology now, but think I want derm.

[jahbrony]

.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DreamingofDerm]

Hmmm, that's tricky. I'm definitely no expert in this, but it seems to me that it might make sense to go ahead and apply for an intern year now, but I might suggest a preliminary internal medicine program instead of a transitional year, and probably try to go for a good academic medical center. From what I've heard from re-applicants and program directors, they would much rather you get that rigorous intern year training, rather than a "cushy" transitional year. So, for example, you'd be a much better-looking derm applicant next cycle coming from NYU Internal Medicine program rather than some community based program (or transitional year program), but I could be wrong.

If you do go ahead and match into an intern year this cycle, you could apply during your intern year for both those rare open PGY-2 spots starting 2013, as well as PGY-2 spots starting 2014. Lots of people who don't match in derm the first time around do this during their intern year, while at the same time applying to research fellowships for the year following internship as a backup (just in case they don't match again).

It's a crazy process, but you seem like a great applicant. Just get some research projects started this year so that you have built that up (and hopefully made some connections/gotten some LORs) by the time you apply! Good luck with your decision - I'm sure it's a tough one, but gotta follow your heart!

 

[SierraPoppa]

I was in the exact same situation. Did my radiology elective first and liked it. Then did my derm elective second month of fourth year and LOVED it. I had planned to do Rads all through med school. I ended up applying and interviewing for both. Doing an intern year and then applying for derm doesn't give you much of any chance at matching, so I think your best bet is to do some Rads interviews since you're comfortable with that, and do some derm interviews to see if you can land a spot. If not, you've got Rads to fall back on, which you've already said you would be ok with.

I did 9 Rads interviews and 9 derm interviews, plus TY and prelim. This required me taking a few months off to devote to interviews. I had 1 case report that I threw together at the last minute which did not end up getting published. My step 1 score was slightly lower than yours (but at that level probably not important), step 2 I took late and programs didn't see it.

I ended up matching at my #4 derm program (8 spots down from the top if you count how many positions each program had). Your boards are higher, but it's all about being a salesman. I'm better at that than I am on paper. Work on your interview skills, don't reveal any weakness that an interviewer doesn't directly ask about, and be cool enough that you make the crazy derm applicants look even crazier. Also go buy a new suit that fits you correctly (NO PLEATED PANTS), don't wear a white shirt with a red tie (stand out in a way that is still acceptably formal... I went with either a solid red or green shirt under a black suit while almost all other interviewers wore white shirts with red ties). I actually had one department head thank me in the middle of a radiology tour for not "being boring and wearing a white shirt and red tie like everyone else". It was embarrassing at the time, but it made the point that standing out is a good thing as long as it's still professional.

 

[jahbrony]

.

 

[SierraPoppa]

Hey, thanks for the replies so far. So I'm not alone! Do you think it's too late to apply for derm right now? I could whip-up a good personal statement and get a derm LOR without much trouble. But what I'm wondering is, would programs even consider me after sending apps in as late as October?

I honestly don't have a good answer for you on that, other than knowing that many of the programs didn't look at my apps until Dec or so.

 

[Substance]

I was in the exact same situation. Did my radiology elective first and liked it. Then did my derm elective second month of fourth year and LOVED it. I had planned to do Rads all through med school. I ended up applying and interviewing for both. Doing an intern year and then applying for derm doesn't give you much of any chance at matching, so I think your best bet is to do some Rads interviews since you're comfortable with that, and do some derm interviews to see if you can land a spot. If not, you've got Rads to fall back on, which you've already said you would be ok with.

I did 9 Rads interviews and 9 derm interviews, plus TY and prelim. This required me taking a few months off to devote to interviews. I had 1 case report that I threw together at the last minute which did not end up getting published. My step 1 score was slightly lower than yours (but at that level probably not important), step 2 I took late and programs didn't see it.

I ended up matching at my #4 derm program (8 spots down from the top if you count how many positions each program had). Your boards are higher, but it's all about being a salesman. I'm better at that than I am on paper. Work on your interview skills, don't reveal any weakness that an interviewer doesn't directly ask about, and be cool enough that you make the crazy derm applicants look even crazier. Also go buy a new suit that fits you correctly (NO PLEATED PANTS), don't wear a white shirt with a red tie (stand out in a way that is still acceptably formal... I went with either a solid red or green shirt under a black suit while almost all other interviewers wore white shirts with red ties). I actually had one department head thank me in the middle of a radiology tour for not "being boring and wearing a white shirt and red tie like everyone else". It was embarrassing at the time, but it made the point that standing out is a good thing as long as it's still professional.

Dude, I would love it if you were to give us all a primer on how to sell oneself. I know that I possess the anti-charisma and would love to remedy that for future interactions with people who can decide my fate with a flick of their pens.

 

[Dral]

If you go the route of doing an intern year and applying for derm, make it a prelim, not TY. TY perfectly fine if you match derm, but if you're applying during that year, people want to see that you didn't take the 'easy route'.

 

[SierraPoppa]

Dude, I would love it if you were to give us all a primer on how to sell oneself. I know that I possess the anti-charisma and would love to remedy that for future interactions with people who can decide my fate with a flick of their pens.

I'll make a list of some points I personally think are important. Some people will disagree with me, but I shouldn't have matched as well as I did based on my school, my grades, and my boards. A LOT of your match success depends on how you come across in the interview. Many residents and faculty told me that once you get to the interview your boards and other "paper" numbers matter very little.

So here's the impromptu guide: Rules for a good interview...

1) Outfit. This is the first thing everyone sees and can tank you right away if you do it poorly enough (see "blowing your chances" thread in general issues about applicant wearing american flag sweater to interview).

• Wear a suit. Black or charcoal/gray are the safest colors. This is one area where I would stick to the norm and not try to stand out. You don't have to spend $1000 on a suit to look good. Places like Jos. A Bank frequently have sales where you can pick up a decent wool suit for around $200 (If it's a buy 1 get 2 free deal, go in with two classmates or family members like I did). NO PLEATED PANTS. If your build is even remotely athletic pleated pants will look strange, especially when sitting.

• A 3-piece suit is overkill; stick with 2-piece. I personally prefer 3-button, but that's up to you.

• Pay the $20-30 to have it altered by someone who knows what they're doing (They'll ask how to do the pants. I personally like cuffed pants.)

• Shoes: You are going to be wearing these a lot and doing some walking in them, and in my opinion style here is not quite as important. I wore Clarks loafer style shoes from their unStructured line. These shoes are extremely light and comfortable. Many people will say that loafers are too casual for a suit, but this is an area where comfort was very important to me. I did 24 interviews w/ tours in these shoes and was never sorry.

• Belt: There's no reason to buy this at a fancy store and spend $60+. Buy your belt at JCPenny or similar for $20. As long as it's 1/4" and the buckle is neutral (I like square, silver) you're fine and no one will know the difference.

• Shirt/Tie: I would stick with solid colors. Striped shirts look too busy with a suit. If you're athletic, get a tapered shirt that actually fits and doesn't balloon out in the back. You will probably take your jacket off for some parts of the day (good idea when eating) and a tapered shirt looks much more professional. For colors, I prefer to go with brighter, sharper colors than dull, washed out colors. For example, if you're going to wear a green shirt, make it kelly green so it pops. I personally like Express shirts because the colors are sharp and the tapered cut actually fits well, but they're a bit pricey. Wear a tie that complements the shirt color, preferably with understated stripes and maybe some accents that complement the suit color. I personally don't like paisley ties. If you need help the folks who work in the store are usually good at matching ties to shirts. Buy your ties at Penny's, not at Express, etc, and you'll save more money to use for flights. Your tie should be within 1" above your belt buckle when standing. Make sure the knot is tidy.

• Iron your clothes. Iron and use spray starch on your shirts before you travel, then re-iron at the motel. Almost everyone I saw on the trail had wrinkly suits. There is no excuse for this and it looks sloppy. I traveled with a carry-on only because the airlines WILL lose your suit if you check it (murphy's law). Do a google search for how to roll a suit jacket to fit in a carry-on. If done very carefully you can iron your suit on a low heat setting at the motel to get last-minute wrinkles out. Always carry a lint roller, especially if your suit is black. Take your jacket off while in the car.

• Don't wear cologne. I came to the conclusion on the interview trail that most guys are totally incapable of judging how much cologne to wear. Many elevator rides or shared cabs resulted in my eyes watering. It's more professional to smell like nothing than to burn your interviewer's eyes.

2) Pre-interview dinner

• Show up on time. This will frequently get you some extra one-on-one time with residents as other applicants straggle in.

• Talk to residents, even if you're shy. Talk to them like they're your old childhood friends and conversation is easy, not like you're intimidated by them. If you can't think of anything to talk about, ask open-ended questions about the city, the program, or derm residency in general and let them talk.

• Make eye contact when you talk! Smile and act interested in whatever they're saying. Pay enough attention that you can ask followup questions about things they've mentioned, even if you don't care. This is all general advice for making people like you... you need to come across as someone who's easy to talk to.

• Talk to other applicants! When you're waiting for things to get started, waiting between interviews, etc. Same rules apply... you should be friendly and easy to talk to, like you've known the person for years. Residents and faculty will take note of how you interact with other applicants, and you'll likely see many of them on future interviews.

3) Interview day

• Look through threads on SDN for frequently asked interview questions. Write them down and come up with an answer for each of them. Rehearse these answers. You won't use them verbatim, but you need to have the general idea down in case you blank during the interview.

• Don't mention money, lifestyle, or cosmetics at any point during your interviews, even if these apply to you. These are all realities of derm, but talking about them in an interview will not improve your chances.

• If you had terrible acne, skin cancer, or fam hx of skin cancer, play that card when talking about why you want to go into derm. Emphasize how much your acne affected your self esteem as a teen and how you want to prevent others from having to endure that. If you were in a rural area and didn't have a derm available mention that too. Obviously, don't lie about any of these things, but don't overlook factors that motivated you to pursue derm and also sound good.

• If you don't know where/what kind of derm you will do don't lie. Say "I don't know yet." Don't say you're interested in academics if you're not. Most of us are not.

• For the first few interviews I carried around a small zippered binder (most applicants do), but I soon found this to be a hassle and not terribly useful. I rarely wrote anything down, and I personally think it's more respectful to maintain eye contact with a resident/faculty who's talking rather than burying your head in a notepad writing down everything they say (which is what most applicants did- this is another chance to stand out by making eye contact with the lecturer). Also, the program will likely give you a folder of some sort, and then you will have to carry all of these items around on the tour, impeding your ability to carry a drink and also open doors, etc.

• ETA: For any interview-type situation, you will almost always get questions such as, "What is the most challenging decision you've faced, and how did you deal with it?" or, "What is the most frightening situation you've ever been in and how did you get through it?" I also had "What is your biggest weakness?" The secret to questions like this is to ignore whatever "rules" the interviewer has laid out for your answer and pick something that appears to fit the template but is really just another plug for why you're so great. They don't really care if you answer the question... the whole purpose is that it's open ended and they want to see how well you think on your feet and deal with "difficult" questions. If your biggest weakness is that you don't work well with others, you obviously shouldn't share that. Always make your answer mostly positive. For instance, you could say "When I'm working on a difficult problem I tend to devote all my attention to it until it's solved, sometimes even forgetting to take breaks to stretch out or eat." With an answer like that you've conveyed that you probably work best alone but are efficient and devoted to solving the problem. This is just one example... you have to be somewhat creative to restructure a negative question into a positive answer, so practice beforehand.

That's all for now. I'll edit this post if I think of more things to add.

 

[jahbrony]

.

 

[inspirationmd]

Spectacular breakdown!!! I saw so many people messing up professional behavior and even worse with wrinkled/ill-fitting suits. I didn't apply for Derm but this advice is applicable to every specialty. Nicely done Sierra.

 

[SierraPoppa]

Well, just talked to my school's derm PD, and she thought given my situation, that I should try to apply for it this year. Then just send a note to program coordinators informing them of my situation.

So, looks like I'll be dual applying after all. Probably just throwing money into the fire at this point, oh well I guess

I would be careful to NOT tell programs that you're going to dual-apply. That's generally considered a death knell for derm applicants. They know that lots of us do it, and it really does make sense with the high no-match rate, but you don't want them to know it. I wouldn't even tell your home program if you haven't already. My PD and other faculty told me flat out that if they find out an applicant is double applying they will not rank that person.

I went so far as to keep it a secret from my class. Gossip in a hospital/med school spreads faster than a STD. All it takes is one gunner derm applicant hearing the rumors and torpedoing your chances.

 

[jahbrony]

.

 

[SierraPoppa]

Hmm that's an interesting take. I hadn't thought of that. Well, my home PD already knows, so cat is out of the bag there She seemed cool with it though since I didn't know I liked derm until now.

However, if I don't tell programs, I suspect they'll wonder why I'm applying so late, no?

"Uhhh, I'm sending you my app now because I thought the submission date was October 1st, and not Sept 1st...and I got confused"

Most programs aren't going to ask about when you applied. Telling them is most likely going mean a wasted plane ticket and motel bill, IMO.

 

[dermapplicant]

Hmm that's an interesting take. I hadn't thought of that. Well, my home PD already knows, so cat is out of the bag there She seemed cool with it though since I didn't know I liked derm until now.

However, if I don't tell programs, I suspect they'll wonder why I'm applying so late, no?

"Uhhh, I'm sending you my app now because I thought the submission date was October 1st, and not Sept 1st...and I got confused"

Most programs don't look at the applications until after the ERAS deadline, so they will have no idea or won't care when your application gets in. I got mine in like two days before the deadline.

I would agree that you should apply now. As long as you made a good impression and are able to get a letter from chair or PD during your derm rotation, you should be ok. I also decided late, I did my derm rotation in September of my 4th year. Your application, like mine, will be a little thin derm wise, but I think that is ok and people didn't seem to notice (or didn't mention it), when I interviewed. It is a competitive match though, so I think that it is good that you are realistic that it might not work out. But if it is what you want I would think you would be able to get some interviews; just try to spend time until then exploring more in derm, what your interests are and how that might fit in at the programs you interview at.

I would also not mention that you are dual applying. Derm is what you want to do, you have to really sell that.