AOA-ACGME merger update - orthopedic version

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JJacobsDO152 said:
So this is good news for us DOs meaning they are probably unlikely to accept a MD student
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One of their interns is a daughter of one of their attendings, she's an IMG. I wouldn't trust anything they tell you.
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DarkHorizon said:
So much for him making the program more competitive, instead he ends up taking one of the attending's daughter. On top of it, she's an IMG. Goes to show you, it's still about who you know, even after ACGME merger. I thought things would improve, but still a good ole boy system.
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The best part is at the AOAO meeting he was like "people criticized me for taking an MD, but it wasn't my fault its just the way the match works."

I was sitting there thinking, I am pretty sure that is the opposite reason for why you ended up with MDs. One was the attendings daughter like you said, and the other was someone who failed to match MD ortho and then did research at broward for like 2 years is what I heard.

Also, multiple PDs from the Ohio programs said that once they got initial accredidation, they have started receiving emails and calls from MDs they "highly respect" who are trying to get them to take one of their mentees/son/daughter ect. Good ol' boy system seems to be full steam ahead.
 
JJacobsDO152 said:
But if the program has an ACGME warning isn’t the program safer going with DOs compared to taking a MD?
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I am not sure I understand you logic here...
 
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DNC127 said:
The best part is at the AOAO meeting he was like "people criticized me for taking an MD, but it wasn't my fault its just the way the match works."

I was sitting there thinking, I am pretty sure that is the opposite reason for why you ended up with MDs. One was the attendings daughter like you said, and the other was someone who failed to match MD ortho and then did research at broward for like 2 years is what I heard.

Also, multiple PDs from the Ohio programs said that once they got initial accredidation, they have started receiving emails and calls from MDs they "highly respect" who are trying to get them to take one of their mentees/son/daughter ect. Good ol' boy system seems to be full steam ahead.
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Don’t mind him taking a guy who invested 2 years to do research with him. I’m ok with that. He’s a US MD, so inherently more competitive. But can’t justify taking an IMG over many many qualified students because she’s an attendings daughter. Just one man’s opinion.
 
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Largo Medical Center update currently a 4th year resident: have held off on reapplying for accreditation last year as two big citation we received were regarding oncology rotation and having our peds rotation in Dayton ohio. Over the past year we have established our pediatric rotation in St Petersburg at All Childrens Hospital which has a pediatric residency program. That is starting this year. We are also finalizing our oncology rotation as well and have residents starting oncology rotation this year. We are reapplying this go around as we have addressed many of the citations we received previously. Of note: other programs at our hospital that have received initial or continued accreditation Internal medicine, psychiatry, cardiology, dermatology, interventional cardiology, rhematology, GI and anesthesia.
 
10 more programs with initial accreditation
- Jack Hughston Memorial Hospital
- Ascension Macomb-Oakland Hospital Program
- OPTI West/Valley Hospital Medical Center Progam
- Rowan SOM/Jefferson Health/Our Lady of Lourdes Health System Program
- Mercy St Vincent Medical Center Program
- Case Western Reserve University/University Hospitals Cleveland Medical Center/Regional Program
- Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences Program
- Samaritan Health Services - Corvallis Program
- Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine Program
- East Tennessee State University/Quillen College of Medicine Program

6 Programs reviewed and rejected/continued pre-accreditation
- Larkin Community Hospital Program
- Garden City Hospital Program
- Mountain View Regional Medical Center Program
- Aultman Hospital/NEOMED Program
- St Anthony Hospital Program
- Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine Program

1 Remaining programs to be reviewed at the January 2020 meeting
- HCA West Florida GME Consortium/Largo Medical Center Program


The last date for the remaining programs to be reviewed is April 2020. I'm optimistic that the program being reviewed in January 2020 will be initially accredited but I'm not sure the 6 programs reviewed today will get another chance. It's sad to see historic programs like PCOM being on the verge of closure.

*Edited to reflect ETSU’s initial accreditation
 
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DrMcLovin said:
9 more programs with initial accreditation
- Jack Hughston Memorial Hospital
- Ascension Macomb-Oakland Hospital Program
- OPTI West/Valley Hospital Medical Center Progam
- Rowan SOM/Jefferson Health/Our Lady of Lourdes Health System Program
- Mercy St Vincent Medical Center Program
- Case Western Reserve University/University Hospitals Cleveland Medical Center/Regional Program
- Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences Program
- Samaritan Health Services - Corvallis Program
- Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine Program

6 Programs reviewed and rejected/continued pre-accreditation
- Larkin Community Hospital Program
- Garden City Hospital Program
- Mountain View Regional Medical Center Program
- Aultman Hospital/NEOMED Program
- St Anthony Hospital Program
- Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine Program

2 Remaining programs to be reviewed at the January 2020 meeting
- HCA West Florida GME Consortium/Largo Medical Center Program
- East Tennessee State University/Quillen College of Medicine Program

The last date for the remaining programs to be reviewed is April 2020. I'm optimistic that the 2 programs being reviewed in January 2020 will be initially accredited but I'm not sure the 6 programs reviewed today will get another chance. It's sad to see historic programs like PCOM being on the verge of closure.
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Very surprised that LECOM was able to squeeze this out. They must have really improved their set up. Also very surprised to see PCOM being left out, along with OKC. Both very established programs with history of graduating solid surgeons.

Out of the two programs being reviewed in Jan, I have high hopes for Kingsport program.
 
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The news today is decent news for DO applicants in the future. We will likely have 35+ accredited programs. Right now, rapid school expansion is hurting DOs wanting ortho in the future more than the merger.
 
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DNC127 said:
The news today is decent news for DO applicants in the future. We will likely have 35+ accredited programs. Right now, rapid school expansion is hurting DOs wanting ortho in the future more than the merger.
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The good thing about DO ortho is most programs still require a rotation in order to be seriously considered for an interview/ranking.

Increased class sizes/schools may increase competition for a rotation spot but once you rotate the odds will likely remain pretty similar.
 
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DarkHorizon said:
Very surprised that LECOM was able to squeeze this out. They must have really improved their set up.
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That is LECOM at Millcreek. That is just to clarify. Looking at the ACGME page (I tried to link it, but I can't), it seems like a lot of it is farmed out (unlike UPMC-Hamot, which only goes to Shriner's, besides Hamot, and stays in Erie for that).
 
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Just food for thought: Looks like 5 AOA Ortho Programs are now Continued Accreditation without Outcomes (CAWO) I'm honestly not entirely sure what that means, but it seems... good?

Plainview – CAWO (9/21/2018)
Metro health – CAWO (9/21/2018)
Cuyahoga falls -CAWO (9/21/2018)
Botsford (Beaumont) – CAWO (9/14/2019)
Riverside – CAWO (9/14/2019)

The question is what the "without Outcomes" means.

This is an excerpt from the ACGME website / policies and procedures.

The accreditation status of Continued Accreditation without Outcomes is conferred on programs with Initial Accreditation and Initial Accreditation with Warning that (1) have not had a resident complete the program since accreditation was initially conferred, and therefore cannot report on Case Logs, (2) have not had a resident complete the program since accreditation was initially conferred, and therefore cannot report on graduate patient numerics (family medicine requirement), and/or (3) have not had a resident who has taken a certifying examination in the specialty or subspecialty, and therefore cannot report on board pass rate. In the Common and specialty-specific Program Requirements, each requirement is categorized as “Detail,” “Core,” or “Outcome.” Programs with a status of Continued Accreditation without Outcomes are subject to accreditation citation under requirements categorized as “Detail,” “Core,” or “Outcome,” except for the requirements addressing (1) Case Logs (if they have not had a resident complete the program since accreditation was initially conferred), (2) graduate patient numerics (if they have not had a resident complete the program since accreditation was initially conferred) (family medicine requirement), and/or (3) board pass rates (if they have not had a resident who has taken a certifying examination in the specialty or subspecialty). Although programs with a status of Continued Accreditation without Outcomes are not subject to accreditation citation under requirements addressing (1) Case Logs, (2) graduate patient numerics (family medicine requirement), and (3) board pass rates, they are expected to comply with those requirements, as well as all other Core- and Outcome-categorized requirements, upon progression to the status of “Continued Accreditation.”
The length of accreditation for Sponsoring Institutions and programs holding Continued Accreditation without Outcomes must not exceed the length of the educational program plus one year, at which time the Review Committee must confer a status of Continued Accreditation, Continued Accreditation with Warning, Probationary Accreditation, or Withdrawal of Accreditation.

This seems to mean and imply that a program will only become fully accredited, once a program graduates a resident class from intern year to graduation, starting from when they were first accredited (Initially versus continued?)

e.g. if Plainview's "accreditation" status began on 9/21/2018, once the intern that started in 2018 graduates, they can move to "continued accreditation" status?

Or does this timer start from "initial" accreditation?

Does anyone know this?
 
heraclez said:
Just food for thought: Looks like 5 AOA Ortho Programs are now Continued Accreditation without Outcomes (CAWO) I'm honestly not entirely sure what that means, but it seems... good?

Plainview – CAWO (9/21/2018)
Metro health – CAWO (9/21/2018)
Cuyahoga falls -CAWO (9/21/2018)
Botsford (Beaumont) – CAWO (9/14/2019)
Riverside – CAWO (9/14/2019)

The question is what the "without Outcomes" means.

This is an excerpt from the ACGME website / policies and procedures.

The accreditation status of Continued Accreditation without Outcomes is conferred on programs with Initial Accreditation and Initial Accreditation with Warning that (1) have not had a resident complete the program since accreditation was initially conferred, and therefore cannot report on Case Logs, (2) have not had a resident complete the program since accreditation was initially conferred, and therefore cannot report on graduate patient numerics (family medicine requirement), and/or (3) have not had a resident who has taken a certifying examination in the specialty or subspecialty, and therefore cannot report on board pass rate. In the Common and specialty-specific Program Requirements, each requirement is categorized as “Detail,” “Core,” or “Outcome.” Programs with a status of Continued Accreditation without Outcomes are subject to accreditation citation under requirements categorized as “Detail,” “Core,” or “Outcome,” except for the requirements addressing (1) Case Logs (if they have not had a resident complete the program since accreditation was initially conferred), (2) graduate patient numerics (if they have not had a resident complete the program since accreditation was initially conferred) (family medicine requirement), and/or (3) board pass rates (if they have not had a resident who has taken a certifying examination in the specialty or subspecialty). Although programs with a status of Continued Accreditation without Outcomes are not subject to accreditation citation under requirements addressing (1) Case Logs, (2) graduate patient numerics (family medicine requirement), and (3) board pass rates, they are expected to comply with those requirements, as well as all other Core- and Outcome-categorized requirements, upon progression to the status of “Continued Accreditation.”
The length of accreditation for Sponsoring Institutions and programs holding Continued Accreditation without Outcomes must not exceed the length of the educational program plus one year, at which time the Review Committee must confer a status of Continued Accreditation, Continued Accreditation with Warning, Probationary Accreditation, or Withdrawal of Accreditation.

This seems to mean and imply that a program will only become fully accredited, once a program graduates a resident class from intern year to graduation, starting from when they were first accredited (Initially versus continued?)

e.g. if Plainview's "accreditation" status began on 9/21/2018, once the intern that started in 2018 graduates, they can move to "continued accreditation" status?

Or does this timer start from "initial" accreditation?

Does anyone know this?
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It means they got initially accredited, waited 2 years, had another size visit and were given the "you guys are good to go" for 10 years.

So yes, it is very good. It is the goal.
 
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DarkHorizon said:
Very surprised that LECOM was able to squeeze this out. They must have really improved their set up. Also very surprised to see PCOM being left out, along with OKC. Both very established programs with history of graduating solid surgeons.

Out of the two programs being reviewed in Jan, I have high hopes for Kingsport program.
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ETSU is now showing up on the ACGME list as having initial accreditation.
 
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DrMcLovin said:
10 more programs with initial accreditation
- Jack Hughston Memorial Hospital
- Ascension Macomb-Oakland Hospital Program
- OPTI West/Valley Hospital Medical Center Progam
- Rowan SOM/Jefferson Health/Our Lady of Lourdes Health System Program
- Mercy St Vincent Medical Center Program
- Case Western Reserve University/University Hospitals Cleveland Medical Center/Regional Program
- Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences Program
- Samaritan Health Services - Corvallis Program
- Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine Program
- East Tennessee State University/Quillen College of Medicine Program

6 Programs reviewed and rejected/continued pre-accreditation
- Larkin Community Hospital Program
- Garden City Hospital Program
- Mountain View Regional Medical Center Program
- Aultman Hospital/NEOMED Program
- St Anthony Hospital Program
- Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine Program

1 Remaining programs to be reviewed at the January 2020 meeting
- HCA West Florida GME Consortium/Largo Medical Center Program


The last date for the remaining programs to be reviewed is April 2020. I'm optimistic that the program being reviewed in January 2020 will be initially accredited but I'm not sure the 6 programs reviewed today will get another chance. It's sad to see historic programs like PCOM being on the verge of closure.

*Edited to reflect ETSU’s initial accreditation
Click to expand...


Can someone explain me why PCOM is on this yr's ERAS list with that status? I know for a fact that people applied to it this yr as well. None of the other programs with that status are on ERAS :/
 
DrMcLovin said:
10 more programs with initial accreditation
- Jack Hughston Memorial Hospital
- Ascension Macomb-Oakland Hospital Program
- OPTI West/Valley Hospital Medical Center Progam
- Rowan SOM/Jefferson Health/Our Lady of Lourdes Health System Program
- Mercy St Vincent Medical Center Program
- Case Western Reserve University/University Hospitals Cleveland Medical Center/Regional Program
- Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences Program
- Samaritan Health Services - Corvallis Program
- Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine Program
- East Tennessee State University/Quillen College of Medicine Program

6 Programs reviewed and rejected/continued pre-accreditation
- Larkin Community Hospital Program
- Garden City Hospital Program
- Mountain View Regional Medical Center Program
- Aultman Hospital/NEOMED Program
- St Anthony Hospital Program
- Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine Program

1 Remaining programs to be reviewed at the January 2020 meeting
- HCA West Florida GME Consortium/Largo Medical Center Program


The last date for the remaining programs to be reviewed is April 2020. I'm optimistic that the program being reviewed in January 2020 will be initially accredited but I'm not sure the 6 programs reviewed today will get another chance. It's sad to see historic programs like PCOM being on the verge of closure.

*Edited to reflect ETSU’s initial accreditation
Click to expand...

So for the programs reviewed and rejected, what does that mean for them? When would they be closing?
 
JJacobsDO152 said:
So for the programs reviewed and rejected, what does that mean for them? When would they be closing?
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There 2 more review cycles.

January, and march/april.

They have until then to get it or they get the ax.

Those programs will not be able to participate in ERAS now to my knowledge because it will be too late by then.

It will be interesting to see what happens. For example, if PCOM gets accredited in January do they just fill using out of match contracts? Do they have to participate in the soap automatically? Who knows.
 
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throwaway199 said:
Can someone explain me why PCOM is on this yr's ERAS list with that status? I know for a fact that people applied to it this yr as well. None of the other programs with that status are on ERAS :/
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I dont know specifics about PCOM’s program but my understanding was that programs can’t participate in ERAS/NRMP match until initial accreditation.

JJacobsDO152 said:
So for the programs reviewed and rejected, what does that mean for them? When would they be closing?
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As DNC said above, there are 2 more reviews before July 2020 which is the end of the merger.

Residents currently in the pre-accredited programs are allowed to finish in an AOA accredited program. They just wont be allowed to accept new residents. This allows everyone to get board certified by AOA.

The residents could also transfer to another program. I noticed the ACGME revised their requirements this year to allow AOA to ACGME transfers. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
 
throwaway28364 said:
Will largo be able to participate in ERAS this cycle?
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They can if they get initial accreditation at the January meeting. Rank lists arent due until February 20th so they would have to interview between January 20th and then. Same goes for other programs that may apply again for the January meeting.
 
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Just got the word that the program at SHS Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center in Corvallis, OR got initial ACGME accreditation.

Orthopedic Surgery Residency Program

Our Orthopedic Surgery Residency Program prepares surgeons for successful careers by offering invigorating and comprehensive training experience.
www.samhealth.org www.samhealth.org

Edit: Nvm. Just saw that @DrMcLovin listed the Corvallis program above
 
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Glad to see that most programs will make the cut. No shortage of competent DO orthopedic surgeons. Very happy that it’ll continue to be that way.
 
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DrMcLovin said:
I dont know specifics about PCOM’s program but my understanding was that programs can’t participate in ERAS/NRMP match until initial accreditation.
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Weird because currently people can apply to PCOM program in ERAS...its listed under ACGME# is 2604100213
 
Aultman Hospital, Larkin, Garden City jesus haha I can understand. PCOM I'm surprised.
 
Pre-Medguy1995 said:
What are the chances Larkins and PCOM don't get accredited in time?
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Larkin is probably in a lot of trouble. I don't know about PCOM, but not getting accreditation this time around is a blow. Any program not accredited by now is most likely at very high risk of closure.
 
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Pre-Medguy1995 said:
Yeah, I would like more information on this as well. Why not Larkins?
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I know nothing about it, other than I have heard from pretty much anybody that brings up the name "larkin" that it sucks..
 
SynapticDoctah said:
Are any of the newly accredited programs up on ERAS yet?
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Yes they added 6 new programs..out of which 1 is not participating so technically only 5 new. Also PCOM is still on the list and accepting apps :/ I hope they refund to people who applied.
 
SynapticDoctah said:
Are any of the newly accredited programs up on ERAS yet?
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Re: Samaritan Health Services, Corvallis Program

I was told that there were medical students not being able to find the program on ERAS. The program has been officially added on ERAS and medical students can apply to the program through there.
 
throwaway199 said:
Yes they added 6 new programs..out of which 1 is not participating so technically only 5 new. Also PCOM is still on the list and accepting apps :/ I hope they refund to people who applied.
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which one is not participating?
 
DNC127 said:
which one is not participating?
Click to expand...

They added

[2604000029] Samaritan Health Services - Corvallis Program
[2603300226] Rowan SOM/Jefferson Health/Our Lady of Lourdes Health System Program
[2603100002] OPTI West/Valley Hospital Medical Center Program
[2604100216] Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine Program
[2604700225] East Tennessee State University/Quillen College of Medicine Program
[2603900055] Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences Program

However, Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences Program is not participating.
 
throwaway199 said:
They added

[2604000029] Samaritan Health Services - Corvallis Program
[2603300226] Rowan SOM/Jefferson Health/Our Lady of Lourdes Health System Program
[2603100002] OPTI West/Valley Hospital Medical Center Program
[2604100216] Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine Program
[2604700225] East Tennessee State University/Quillen College of Medicine Program
[2603900055] Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences Program

However, Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences Program is not participating.
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weird hopefully they get added soon!
 
Also this brings the total to 30 former AOA programs participating. And if my math is right next yr there should be at least 35 participating.
 
throwaway199 said:
Also this brings the total to 30 former AOA programs participating. And if my math is right next yr there should be at least 35 participating.
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There will be 34 this year. They will mostly likely be uploaded soon. Go to the acgme single accreditation to see all that have made it. I would guess final numbers between 36-38
 
throwaway199 said:
They added

[2604000029] Samaritan Health Services - Corvallis Program
[2603300226] Rowan SOM/Jefferson Health/Our Lady of Lourdes Health System Program
[2603100002] OPTI West/Valley Hospital Medical Center Program
[2604100216] Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine Program
[2604700225] East Tennessee State University/Quillen College of Medicine Program
[2603900055] Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences Program

However, Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences Program is not participating.
Click to expand...

All of these programs are useless in terms of training. Similar to Larkin they make you go out of the state for their rotations.
 
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