Anyone here against expanding GME?

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Yeah...you're right lets reimburse our specialists to the tune of mexico or greece (whose economy is failing) and have surgical specialists botching surgeries left and right.
God help us if we de-incentivize a crucial field like medicine, for the more difficult work. Ludicrous.

Edit: Sorry I mis-read thought it sounded like you were advocating for a decrease in reimbursements.
However, it is still really concerning with this trend. I WOULD NEVER go to mexico to have a surgery done. Period.
You're missing like, the vast majority of the first world. Sweden, Finland, Germany, Norway, New Zealand, Japan, Denmark (pays less than 100k for specialists), Portugal, Greece, France (pays less than 100k for generalists), Belgium (pays less than 100k for generalists), and Australia (pays less than 100k for generalists).

That's a whole lot of first world countries, not just ****ing Mexico. I'm not saying that that is the way things should be, but rather that it has been done elsewhere and very well could happen here. We're one of only six countries that pays generalists more than 100k, and one of only 10 countries that pays specialists more than 100k. In fact, until Medicare passed, physician salary in the United States was much more in-line with European salaries. The time and place we live in is the exception, not the rule, so advocate carefully and appreciate what you have, because we're going to have to fight hard to keep what is ours.

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You're missing like, the vast majority of the first world. Sweden, Finland, Germany, Norway, New Zealand, Japan, Denmark (pays less than 100k for specialists), Portugal, Greece, France (pays less than 100k for generalists), Belgium (pays less than 100k for generalists), and Australia (pays less than 100k for generalists).

That's a whole lot of first world countries, not just ****ing Mexico. I'm not saying that that is the way things should be, but rather that it has been done elsewhere and very well could happen here. We're one of only six countries that pays generalists more than 100k, and one of only 10 countries that pays specialists more than 100k. In fact, until Medicare passed, physician salary in the United States was much more in-line with European salaries. The time and place we live in is the exception, not the rule, so advocate carefully and appreciate what you have, because we're going to have to fight hard to keep what is ours.

Unfortunately, medical school tuition increases are getting out of hand, coupled with slightly declining reimbursements (but potentially huge ones if some people had their way). There are many people out there advocating that physicians be paid less (closer to the other countries you mentioned), but without the foresight to shrink medical education costs first. In many countries, medical school is dirt cheap or free. The concern is that the cart will be put before the horse, and people will be stuck with $400-500k in med school debt with $80-100k yearly salaries. I don't think I need to explain to anyone how disastrous that would be for many.
 
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Unfortunately, medical school tuition increases are getting out of hand, coupled with slightly declining reimbursements (but potentially huge ones if some people had their way). There are many people out there advocating that physicians be paid less (closer to the other countries you mentioned), but without the foresight to shrink medical education costs first. In many countries, medical school is dirt cheap or free. The concern is that the cart will be put before the horse, and people will be stuck with $400-500k in med school debt with $80-100k yearly salaries. I don't think I need to explain to anyone how disastrous that would be for many.

My concern exactly. Although it would be interesting to see the redistribution of competitive fields of everyone was getting 80k.
 
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Unfortunately, medical school tuition increases are getting out of hand, coupled with slightly declining reimbursements (but potentially huge ones if some people had their way). There are many people out there advocating that physicians be paid less (closer to the other countries you mentioned), but without the foresight to shrink medical education costs first. In many countries, medical school is dirt cheap or free. The concern is that the cart will be put before the horse, and people will be stuck with $400-500k in med school debt with $80-100k yearly salaries. I don't think I need to explain to anyone how disastrous that would be for many.
Oh I fully understand how bad it is. I'd probably kill myself.
 
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Unfortunately, medical school tuition increases are getting out of hand, coupled with slightly declining reimbursements (but potentially huge ones if some people had their way). There are many people out there advocating that physicians be paid less (closer to the other countries you mentioned), but without the foresight to shrink medical education costs first. In many countries, medical school is dirt cheap or free. The concern is that the cart will be put before the horse, and people will be stuck with $400-500k in med school debt with $80-100k yearly salaries. I don't think I need to explain to anyone how disastrous that would be for many.
Sooo being a lawyer basically....
 
Except lawyers don't have 400-500k of student debt.
Quite a few have 200k with a 50k salary. Not that different of a debt to income ratio. Which is not a good one.
 
Oh I fully understand how bad it is. I'd probably kill myself.

Woah now.

And no need to explain to me the negatives of this mentality, I was using hyperbole. Cool your jets.
My point remains, the trends don't bode well if they are allowed to continue to extremes
 
Woah now.

And no need to explain to me the negatives of this mentality, I was using hyperbole. Cool your jets.
My point remains, the trends don't bode well if they are allowed to continue to extremes
That wasn't hyperbole. I would literally kill myself if I had my 400k in nondischargeable debt with a tax bomb tied to the end and a sub 100k salary. You think I'm trying to make a point, but I'm completely serious. That's life ruining.
 
That wasn't hyperbole. I would literally kill myself if I had my 400k in nondischargeable debt with a tax bomb tied to the end and a sub 100k salary. You think I'm trying to make a point, but I'm completely serious. That's life ruining.

I don't think it will ever come to that in our lifetime. But it's another impetus to remain aware of our political environment and be vigilant about voting or being vocal in whatever small way we can
 
I don't think it will ever come to that in our lifetime. But it's another impetus to remain aware of our political environment and be vigilant about voting or being vocal in whatever small way we can
That's precisely why I'm so passionate about my political involvement. My life literally depends on it.
 
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That wasn't hyperbole. I would literally kill myself if I had my 400k in nondischargeable debt with a tax bomb tied to the end and a sub 100k salary. You think I'm trying to make a point, but I'm completely serious. That's life ruining.

Work as a science teacher in an underserved area for 10 years paying 10% of you salary towards the debt and your loan is forgiven. Actually any public service gig has that benefit.
 
Work as a science teacher in an underserved area for 10 years paying 10% of you salary towards the debt and your loan is forgiven. Actually any public service gig has that benefit.
A benefit that has literally never been collected on amd very well might be rescinded. I doubt it'll be made good on for unlimited repayment.
 
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A benefit that has literally never been collected on amd very well might be rescinded. I doubt it'll be made good on for unlimited repayment.

I know several people well on their way to collecting it. I'm not sure if it has been in place for 10 years to have been collected on.
Also, if it's good for PR (which it is) and if it is costing nothing (which you assert that it is) it'll stay on the books forever.
 
Oh. Grand rounds as a preclinical student is pretty much completely pointless, especially when you're giving it to classmates. Whats the point of giving a talk on say, bariatric surgery, when there is no bariatric surgeon in the room to give feedback or correct outdated information? What you're describing is just preclinical students presenting a topic to other students.

The didactics make sense and are the same.

Good to hear for the didactics at least. For the grand rounds, I wouldn't expect it to be the same level, they've told us the point is basically just so we understand how to give the presentation and what will be expected of us. I feel like I've at least got an idea of what I'll be expected to do when I have to present though. We did always have a guest from the field come in and listen and give feedback, though I'm sure it was usually nowhere at the same level as we would receive during residency. Funny story about it:

We had one group give a presentation on some kind of GI condition which required surgery, and the head of the surgical residency at the best local program was there. The group gave what everyone thought was probably the best presentation of the year in pretty much every way. So our dean asked the surgical director if he had any feedback or comments, and the guy proceeds to tear this group apart. It seemed really bad, and a lot of us felt pretty sorry for the group, you could tell they were really deflated after giving what they thought was a great presentation. So the guy finishes speaking and our dean, somewhat hesitantly, asks what level he thought the groups presentation was (3rd year MS? PGY-1? etc.). The surgeon responded that he thought they performed at a PGY-3/4 level and that he thought it was quite impressive. If that's how bad he reams out his PGY-3s for solid presentations, I still want to hear what he says to his interns :bag:
 
Agree, the worst rotation I had was the one where they stuck me in the OR all day. The idea was to get a lot of surgical exposure and to get to know the attendings who grade you. But I think that it would have been much more valuable to learn how to run the floor and see new consults rather than retracting all day. It was cool to use the bovie, cut skin, suture but being yelled at for not being able to manipulate the camera properly on your first try when you're in a quadport and your resident is right on top of you is not what I consider to be a good time.

Seriously. Time spent in the OR, "first assist," holding cameras and suturing and all that other crap is close to worthless from a student perspective. If given the choice I'd always pick the rotation with less time in the OR and more time seeing patients. I ended up spending a huge amount of time in the OR and thought it was really cool, but educationally it was a total bust.
 
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I think GME funding will now be based on state funding and taxation. Anyone in a state where that seems likely? I'm interested in how Medicaid expansion support and GME funding support are associated in terms of politics and demographics. Virginia doesn't support Medicaid expansion, but some groups who are against it are for GME funding.
 
Trick question: what kind of physician?

Research is an expanding practice in medicine, now occurring among orivate groups in orivate hsopitals and clinics. Physicians and hospitals use it for marketing. Patients view it as "cutting edge." Just check the onlibe bios of any of your local physician geoups, guanteed you'll find some who actively promote their scholarship.

And while we can argue about whether it makes you a better doctor, no doubt it makes you a better resident. It demonstrates your grasp of the scientific method, and more importantly, it demonstrates your ability to go above and beyond, to multitask, to work harder than those around you...

It's not just fluff. Research is getting more important every year, not just in the matching process, but in medicine in general. If you can get invokved, in any capacity, do it.

Research creates most of the guidelines, medications, and therapies we take for granted. Why do people begin to do lumpectomies over full breast removal? A doctor did research. How did people know to treat some infections with direct injections of medications into the spine instead of taking it orally when the patient has HIV? Doctors did research on it!
 
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You're missing like, the vast majority of the first world. Sweden, Finland, Germany, Norway, New Zealand, Japan, Denmark (pays less than 100k for specialists), Portugal, Greece, France (pays less than 100k for generalists), Belgium (pays less than 100k for generalists), and Australia (pays less than 100k for generalists).

That's a whole lot of first world countries, not just ****ing Mexico. I'm not saying that that is the way things should be, but rather that it has been done elsewhere and very well could happen here. We're one of only six countries that pays generalists more than 100k, and one of only 10 countries that pays specialists more than 100k. In fact, until Medicare passed, physician salary in the United States was much more in-line with European salaries. The time and place we live in is the exception, not the rule, so advocate carefully and appreciate what you have, because we're going to have to fight hard to keep what is ours.

I love this post. Why is there no love button?
 
I think GME funding will now be based on state funding and taxation. Anyone in a state where that seems likely? I'm interested in how Medicaid expansion support and GME funding support are associated in terms of politics and demographics. Virginia doesn't support Medicaid expansion, but some groups who are against it are for GME funding.
I think you are right on. I know in Texas, the legislature is putting a lot of money towards this- 160 mil over five years, IIRC. I think the question is whether or not this will be able to offset the 1997 freeze on direct federal funding through Medicare/GME- maybe, maybe not. However, what I don't know, but what seems to be the case, is that a lot of the "state money" going towards GME is actually coming down from the federal government either through parts of the ACA, Medicaid expansion, VA funding, or other sources- in contrast to state's throwing their own money at programs. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
Premeds aren't required to take upper level bio, they do that to themselves.


Right, they do, but only because they are required to take something to fulfill 90 credits IN COLLEGE at an accredited U.S. university...If you read my post, I'm advocating for getting rid of that credit requirement (and making it a non-preference) for acceptance into medical school. Instead, students should be required to just do BCPM and a few extra classes (of course if they want they can still do 120). If you want to formalize the few classes so students don't just take scattered junk and are productive establish what I'm calling a "pre-med track". That track should consist of BCPM (about 40 credits) + a non-human-biology "proficiency" (20-70 credits). That proficiency can be computer science, statistics, music, literature, economics, engineering, foreign language, etc all of which have value and can make someone a more critical thinking, diverse, and balanced physician. (Also, you'll get less students whining that they took harder tracks within the same university because using this model, BCPM GPA is weighted more heavily).

This will shave a year off for the traditional student and let those who carry credits from high school to shave off even more. The only drawback is that this cuts out the traditional liberal arts education that universities require where you're required to take 2 social sciences courses, 2 humanities, etc. I think, however, that those classes (where you do things like analyze Romantic literature) are best taught in high school where you can actually have meaningful discussions as opposed to a 40-200 student lectures (my experience at a large mid-tier research university vs. an all-IB high school).

If students really like the liberal arts education, they can choose to go to a liberal arts college and do that. I think large universities should start offering these opportunities to pre-meds and medical schools should start accepting them. Also, high schools need to beef up their curriculum in that ALL students are proficient in some intro BCPM, lit, history, and foreign language and many schools with lots of IB/AP classes have.

This can literally shave off 3 years of the medical school curriculum for some without compromising any safety or quality of training (which really comes in residency) whatsoever. The ones who argue that some extra undergrad classes make one a more qualified physician really are just kidding themselves. I recognize that this is already in place with BS/MD programs. These programs are pretty competitive though and I wasn't able to get into one even though I could have skipped two years of college. In this era where student loan debt is becoming a bigger issue, implementing something like this should be a serious consideration.

Some others may argue that there's an issue of maturity and a lot of younger applicants who struggle on the application trail can attest to that mindset being prevalent in admissions. I really don't know why though. Have we done experiments and collected any data that support the notion that you need to be at least 20 before you enter medical school? I'm not saying that the maturity gap isn't a thing, because I can literally see the spectrum in our 19 y.o's vs 23 y.o's vs 27 y.o's, but I think that as long as the student can manage the rigors and learn professionalism, they should be allowed in. Initially, you may see failures and other disasters...but eventually the word will trickle down and only those ready for the rigor will put themselves through this.
 
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