Anyone from NA end up staying in Aus?

[markdc]

I am a year out and things are starting to get to me here. I can't say I miss the long crappy winters in Ontario but I do miss being around Canadians. BC was the province I wanted to end up in but the IMG program there is ridiculous. I feel torn most of the time between staying here and going back. I would have thought Aus would feel more like home after time. It sort of does but the next day it doesn't.

If I go back I will not get paid the same, have less vacation and work more hours. However my family/old friends would be closer, goods and services are generally cheaper and traveling to most places is cheaper and faster. I get the impression the training programs are a little more organized but that probably varies highly.

Seems like a strange situation at times. I miss my home country but don't really want to move back to my home province where my family is. My career will take longer here but it should be less stressful. Free time vs. stress vs. money vs. culture vs. weather vs. career opportunities makes the decision to stay or go seem more and more difficult instead of easier!

Anyone else in a similar position?

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[JoeNamaMD]

No. I grew up enough before medical school to know what I wanted from life. I am staying in Oz after graduation. Even if I wound up making less money than in the US, I think the lifestyle is a unique aspect of being in Oz. As a registrar in Oz, I will still be entitled to eight hours of sleep and an annual leave of 5 weeks a year, as well as a living wage while I train. With the kind of leave time I get I will be able to see my family every year. If I trained in the US, where people do not get a vacation or get pressured not to take them, even if I moved to another region, I would probably not see my family for years because of the lack of time.

 

[redshifteffect]

Mark I completely sympathise, but at least you've come to work out the important points, and don't have the attitude a lot of Canadians have - the knee jerk reaction to go home.

What helps - is the vacation time. I Just spent a whole month in summer (first one in 6 years!) back in Ontario - it was great.

As for going back, look at GP training - it's a short cut back. I've already got job offers in Saskatchewan, and will have some up in BC next year (though I will decline). Are you still set on Anaesthetics?

What happened with your interviews by the way?

P.S. Going back I noticed a lot of things were getting expensive in Ontario, and things were pretty much the same price as Oz now. Somethings even more expensive. Flights in general were more expensive then in Oz. Only some electronics were cheaper...

Also the fact that most 26 year olds are still living at home because they can't afford a $600/month basement apartment was a big shock. Makes you appreciate the employment in Oz.

 

[markdc]

I don't think it is the prices/financial part of things that makes me want to go back home. More so just missing Canadian culture/friends/family. Lifestyle is probably better here. I would likely be missing Aus if I moved back. Such is the conundrum I guess. Part of my problem is I had to use up my 5 weeks vacation in the first term when I didn't need it!

JoeNamaMD, I wasn't really missing Canada till this year. You may find the same after you have been here a while.

Redshift, In the end I didn't take my interviews for anest very seriously because they were all tied to ROS contracts and the thought of being stuck in northern Ontario for an extra 5 years seemed difficult to justify.

I think that Canada should be actively recruiting us instead of sticking ROS contracts on us. I think that those of us who have completed an intern year in Aus/UK etc have experience that should make us highly desirable as applicants. Employment conditions are generally better here but there are tons of IMGs and there will always be enough Canadians desperate to return that things will not likely change much. After this year it doesn't make much sense to apply to CaRMs since training time ends up the same.

 

[redshifteffect]

Yeah,

I warned you about those ROS contracts, which in my opinion are worse then the 10 year moratorium...at least with those you could end up in Redcliffe or even Geelong...not bad compared to some freezing wasteland in Northern Ontario.

Those people that are in Australia doing medicine are lucky in a way, getting jobs/training positions is relatively easy, but more so we can compare the difference that lifestyle makes. If we would have ended up in the Caribbean or somewhere like that, we'd have literally no choice but to go back to the US....and then you do what you have to do. At least here there is a choice. Seriously I can understand missing your friends/family but the one thing you have to remember is in Australia you are a doctor, plain and simple. You got to fulfill your dream of doing medicine, and I guess with a bit of effort (and most importantly time) you can get back to Canada.

Might as well enjoy the ride.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I don't think it is the prices/financial part of things that makes me want to go back home. More so just missing Canadian culture/friends/family. Lifestyle is probably better here. I would likely be missing Aus if I moved back. Such is the conundrum I guess. Part of my problem is I had to use up my 5 weeks vacation in the first term when I didn't need it!

JoeNamaMD, I wasn't really missing Canada till this year. You may find the same after you have been here a while.

Redshift, In the end I didn't take my interviews for anest very seriously because they were all tied to ROS contracts and the thought of being stuck in northern Ontario for an extra 5 years seemed difficult to justify.

I think that Canada should be actively recruiting us instead of sticking ROS contracts on us. I think that those of us who have completed an intern year in Aus/UK etc have experience that should make us highly desirable as applicants. Employment conditions are generally better here but there are tons of IMGs and there will always be enough Canadians desperate to return that things will not likely change much. After this year it doesn't make much sense to apply to CaRMs since training time ends up the same.

I have been in Australia for nearly five years, I am not missing the US at all, I was there just last December, the place is going downhill. I am going on a trip to Europe this December before I move to NSW for my internship year.

 

[chocomorsel]

I want to move from the US. Personally, I'm sick of it and was thinking about a BIG move. I'm originally from Kenya and miss home so much and if it wasn't for this darn residency, I would be back in a heart beat. I am only three months into my intern year, and don't care for it at all. I am sick of the USA and definetely the healthcare system and all the self destructive patients who want you to fix them after years of self abuse. I don't like the hours, and don't really like the people that much any more. I have lived here 20 years and I would love to make a change. Seems like europe is a lot more to break into as I only speak english and my native tongue and that limits me to england and ireland, which I am finding out are quite difficult to get into.
Anyway, guess most of this is just venting. How hard would it be to get a residency in Anesthesia over in Australia? I am gonna do some more research.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I want to move from the US. Personally, I'm sick of it and was thinking about a BIG move. I'm originally from Kenya and miss home so much and if it wasn't for this darn residency, I would be back in a heart beat. I am only three months into my intern year, and don't care for it at all. I am sick of the USA and definetely the healthcare system and all the self destructive patients who want you to fix them after years of self abuse. I don't like the hours, and don't really like the people that much any more. I have lived here 20 years and I would love to make a change. Seems like europe is a lot more to break into as I only speak english and my native tongue and that limits me to england and ireland, which I am finding out are quite difficult to get into.
Anyway, guess most of this is just venting. How hard would it be to get a residency in Anesthesia over in Australia? I am gonna do some more research.

Once Obama becomes President things in America will be all good. Why do you want to go to Australia? Have you been there? Its difficult for IMGs to get licensure down under and as a US graduate you will be an IMG.

The original OP wants to go back to Canada, sometimes I question the sanity of people who have the opportunity to live in a warm country, earn double what they do back home yet still want to go back to some dreary wasteland. I have told people its not much of a problem to do a residency in the US as an Aussie grad, and still they tell me they want to go back to Edmonton or wherever else.

 

[shan564]

Once Obama becomes President...

Let's hope you're not being overly optimistic. McCain and Obama are neck-and-neck in the polls, and I'm concerned that the polls may be inaccurate b/c people say that they're neutral when, in fact, they just don't want to admit that they wouldn't vote for a black guy.

 

[gmacpac]

I agree, Obama definitly is a younger, more energetice, with new ideas, and a much more prolific speaker than McCain. I think race might be playing a part in these polls.

Sad but true.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Well he has an old white guy running with him now, so that should be less of an issue to the peckerwoods out there.

Anyway, did you just see the Olympics?? China won the most gold medals in the world's premiere sports competition. Its no longer a white man's world, there was something about this in the Sydney Morning Herald a few months back.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Well he has an old white guy running with him now, so that should be less of an issue to the peckerwoods out there.

Anyway, did you just see the Olympics?? China won the most gold medals in the world's premiere sports competition. Its no longer a white man's world, there was something about this in the Sydney Morning Herald a few months back.

"whites", caucasians (...or however you want to define that) will be a minority in the United States in 25-30 years from now.

I don't consider Obama a "black man". He is just as much white as black. I think he represents America quite well being from a mixed background... (the US is the biggest immigrant country in the world and most US citizens are mixed somewhat).

 

[shan564]

Well he has an old white guy running with him now, so that should be less of an issue to the peckerwoods out there.

Hopefully. We'll see.

Anyway, did you just see the Olympics?? China won the most gold medals in the world's premiere sports competition. Its no longer a white man's world, there was something about this in the Sydney Morning Herald a few months back.

China won 25% more gold medals than the US, even though their population is 300% more. So, the US won about 3 times as many gold medals per capita. Australia actually won almost half as many total medals as China, even though their population is 1/20 of China's.

And India won 3. Pakistan and Bangladesh (each of which is 8 times bigger than Australia population-wise) won 0.

The Olympics are just an elaborate way to prove that it's still a white man's world. If anybody is inching in, it's East Asia... but the rest of the world still can't compete. I actually just wrote an article about this yesterday:
http://www.rational-outrage.com/2008082540/political-outrage/world-peace-and-gold.html

 

[Live4Life]

The Olympics are just an elaborate way to prove that it's still a white man's world. [/url]

How can you say this when just about half of the medals won by the USA were won by black Americans?

 

[JoeNamaMD]

"whites", caucasians (...or however you want to define that) will be a minority in the United States in 25-30 years from now.

I don't consider Obama a "black man". He is just as much white as black. I think he represents America quite well being from a mixed background... (the US is the biggest immigrant country in the world and most US citizens are mixed somewhat).

What about Kevin Rudd??? The Australian government is heavily influenced by Asia and now even more so. Rudd's daughter is also married to an Asian man.

South Asians tend to be heavily influenced by the British colonial experience, cricket happens to be the most popular sport in India and Pakistan. East Asia is different, particularly China.

Despite fewer medals per capita, China is a still a developing country with an average income of $4000US per person that is less than one tenth of an average American or Australian, which means less money for training athletes, still the Chinese did a remarkable job, and most sports reporters think they are only going to get better in the future, especially with greater financial resources.

China though is on its way up... big time.

If I run into anyone who even mentions North America to me while they are here in Australia, and start talking it up, I swear to God I will take out a cricket bat and smash them over the head. Do not come here and waste your time if you do want to be here.

 

[Meddie83]

What is wrong with you? Why are you so negative? I understand your dislike for comments that suggest NA is better than Aus, but what is wrong with people liking where they come from?? The reality is that most people, although they like Australia, are really only there to get a medical degree. Falling in love with it and staying can happen, but they intially just came for the degree. I don't think the schools have a problem with this.... they benefit from the arm and a leg they charge - so maybe you shouldn't either. Worry more about yourself. I saw your other comment in a forum where someone was asking for help making a very tough decision...totally uncalled for. Keep your bad mood to yourself!!!

 

[Meddie83]

.

 

[gmacpac]

Getting back to election polls.

I would like Obama to win. But I know McCain will end up winning. Let's hope I am wrong, and if I am, drinks are on me (that is once I get to AU off course!!!!)

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Getting back to election polls.

I would like Obama to win. But I know McCain will end up winning. Let's hope I am wrong, and if I am, drinks are on me (that is once I get to AU off course!!!!)

Thanks for your input...I guess that will cement the USA's downfall. A third Bush term, might actually be good, I found a way to make a lot of money off of the collapsing green toilet paper now known as the US dollar.

 

[gmacpac]

Thanks for your input...I guess that will cement the USA's downfall. A third Bush term, might actually be good, I found a way to make a lot of money off of the collapsing green toilet paper now known as the US dollar.

My comments were actually to diverge our conversations away from negativity. But somehow, you manage to find something negative about N.A in anything someone writes.

Politically every country has its ups and downs, I'm sure you will find out eventually that Australia is not all that much better than N.A.
And USD is still stronger than AU dollar, despite its current economic status. As a matter of fact, USD has risen in value compared to AUD over the past 1 month!

hmmm......war in Afghanistan, + war in Iraq, + political and economical stress of involvement in other regions of the world.......and yet USD is still stronger than AU. Which really tells you something. US economy has taken lots of hits, but it has still managed to stay afloat.

I don't know much about AU's resources, expenditure, and international involvement; but I doubt it would do so well in conditions that USA has gone through in the past 10 years.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

You obviously know nothing about Australia, its going to do just fine, in terms of resources its actually the richest country in the world. The Chinese have caught on to this. Australia prefers not to stick its nose in other nation's business matters. Even the last PM knew not to mess around with the Chinese. Condi Rice actually asked John Howard about "containing" China when he was PM, Howard immediately put his foot down. Such a move would cause World War III. Anyway it would not make sense to pick a fight with a country that is your banker.

In a way, being policemen of the world on an unstable planet actually has given the US a lot of economic advantages though some problems, but the advantages outweigh the problems. Thats why people around the planet have used the US as a safehouse.

For your information, we are getting heaps of applications from Asian and European countries, so we don't need you. There is already a bad stigma towards North Americans here, trust me its here due to the whining and complaining of a few North American students. There are always one or two internationals who jump ship the very first minute and they are always from North America, usually Canadian.

The only reason the US Dollar is afloat is due to the massive Chinese effort to prop it up, they want to milk that holy cow for a few more years. They are not going to do this forever. By the way there is a massive influx of immigrants from Asia in Oz and that is where the economic center of gravity is moving to in the world. A McCain presidency will be total disaster for the United States. The US is already deep in debt because of Iraq and other assorted issues, its able to go into debt because of international financiers like China and OPEC, they will eventually pull the plug, especially with another Bush. Obama will definitely be able to slow this downward trend. People would have to be stupid not to vote for this guy, because his plans would guarantee some more good decades for the USA.

There is a way to make a lot of money off the change in value of currencies, its not negativity, its just a way to make some cash.

Like Shan's older post may have indicated that Australia is going to upward, although it won't be overnight.

Also the war in Iraq is only just beginning to do some damage to the US. The first is the Russian invasion of Georgia, the White House only gave a mild disapproval, and the Russians just ignored it. The only US military action has been to send some food and medicine to the country. This is only the first of more muscle flexing by Russia and its ominous for the USA's superpower status. Watch for NATO to be disbanded in the coming years. The world is going to change drastically in the next ten years. Asia might actually become the most stable region of the planet, especially due to China.

 

[gmacpac]

You obviously know nothing about Australia, its going to do just fine, in terms of resources its actually the richest country in the world.

The Chinese have caught on to this. Australia prefers not to stick its nose in other nation's business matters. Even the last PM knew not to mess around with the Chinese. Condi Rice actually asked John Howard about "containing" China, Howard immediately put his foot down. Such a move would cause World War III. Anyway it would not make sense to pick a fight with a country that is your banker.

For your information, we are getting heaps of applications from Asian and European countries, so we don't need you. There is already a bad stigma towards North Americans here, trust me its here due to the whining and complaining of a few North American students. There are always one or two internationals who jump ship the very first minute and they are always from North America, usually Canadian.

The only reason the US Dollar is afloat is due to the massive Chinese effort to prop it up, they want to milk that holy cow for a few more years. They are not going to do this forever. By the way there is a massive influx of immigrants from Asia in Oz and that is where the economic center of gravity is moving to in the world. A McCain presidency will be total disaster for the United States. The US is already deep in debt because of Iraq and other assorted issues, its able to go into debt because of international financiers like China and OPEC, they will eventually pull the plug, especially with another Bush. Obama will definitely be able to slow this downward trend. People would have to be stupid not to vote for this guy, because his plans would guarantee some more good decades for the USA.

There is a way to make a lot of money off the change in value of currencies, its not negativity, its just a way to make some cash.

Like Shan's older post may have indicated that Australia is going to upward, although it won't be overnight.

I don't really want to argue over which country is the best, but from your comments it sounds like you have a concrete view of the world around you.

First.... you mentioned that the ONLY reason USD is afloat is because of massive Chinese effort....uhuh. News to the rest of us. How about billions of dollars of cash flow being generated by foreign Oil companies in U.S media, telecommunication, transport and other industries? ???
Get real. Chinese influence is minute compared to OPEC influence on USA's economy.

Australia is the richest country in the world??
really??? @#$%^&*
What about all those oil rich countries in the middle east? Have you been to any of them? And as you mentioned China being a Banker for Australia, means that Australia (just like USA) is dependent on foreign cash flow. So how does that make Australia a stronger economy?

How about European Union? I believe Euro is worth more than twice as much as what AUD is worth. Doesn't that mean that EU has a better economy than AU?

Again, this is not to say that Australia is not a prosperous country. It very much is. I also NEVER suggested that it's economy wasn't going upward. It is!!! And good for them. But there is no reason for going on a message board and bashing an entire country only because you have had problems with some NA students.

Most of us N.A students who end up going foreign med route do so due to various reasons. Australia eventually became my preference because it will allow me to travel, see another country, and experience a different world view. I am sure it will be an excellent experience. And if it isn't, that itself will be an enriching and educational experience. I am sincerely looking forward to it.

On a lighter note. Glad that you like Australia so much. BTW how did you finance your medical education??? USA financed loans? uhuh.

God Bless America!!!! Land of the free, and home of the Stafford loans!

On a serious note:
Australia, America, Europe. The bottom line is, no matter where one lives on these continents, one is going to have a decent life style in general. Education in either one of these places is good too, also it really varies with each individual student on what they make out of it.
So let's not argue over which place is good, or which is better, or which one is going down the drain.
Take life it for what it is. Enjoy both the good and the bad that comes with it. Take people for who they are. And refrain from bashing other countries or cultures.

Peace

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Australia is the richest country in the world??
really??? @#$%^&*
What about all those oil rich countries in the middle east? Have you been to any of them?

I do believe that Australia has the world’s largest supply of coal and uranium. (as well as many other mining programs)

 

[gmacpac]

I do believe that Australia has the world's largest supply of coal and uranium. (as well as many other mining programs)

While both Oil and Coal are lucrative sources of energy. Currently oil is the mainstream source of energy in most parts of the world, thus accounting for its current demand.

I believe Al Gore is a huge proponent of using coal as a major energy source. Until that happens, we are still dependent on oil.

Once again, my point was not to denigrate one nation at the cost of another. I simply wanted to highlight the fact that no matter which country we discuss, its going to have its own set of political and economical problems. And yes, as Americans we do have shortcomings of our own; but this should not mean that a person should go online and bash every aspect of cultural/political/economical problems we face.

I have read too many negative posts on the topic, and just wanted to give an alternative thought.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I don't really want to argue over which country is the best, but from your comments it sounds like you have a concrete view of the world around you.

First.... you mentioned that the ONLY reason USD is afloat is because of massive Chinese effort....uhuh. News to the rest of us. How about billions of dollars of cash flow being generated by foreign Oil companies in U.S media, telecommunication, transport and other industries? ???
Get real. Chinese influence is minute compared to OPEC influence on USA's economy.

Australia is the richest country in the world??
really??? @#$%^&*
What about all those oil rich countries in the middle east? Have you been to any of them? And as you mentioned China being a Banker for Australia, means that Australia (just like USA) is dependent on foreign cash flow. So how does that make Australia a stronger economy?

How about European Union? I believe Euro is worth more than twice as much as what AUD is worth. Doesn't that mean that EU has a better economy than AU?

Again, this is not to say that Australia is not a prosperous country. It very much is. I also NEVER suggested that it's economy wasn't going upward. It is!!! And good for them. But there is no reason for going on a message board and bashing an entire country only because you have had problems with some NA students.

Most of us N.A students who end up going foreign med route do so due to various reasons. Australia eventually became my preference because it will allow me to travel, see another country, and experience a different world view. I am sure it will be an excellent experience. And if it isn't, that itself will be an enriching and educational experience. I am sincerely looking forward to it.

On a lighter note. Glad that you like Australia so much. BTW how did you finance your medical education??? USA financed loans? uhuh.

God Bless America!!!! Land of the free, and home of the Stafford loans!

On a serious note:
Australia, America, Europe. The bottom line is, no matter where one lives on these continents, one is going to have a decent life style in general. Education in either one of these places is good too, also it really varies with each individual student on what they make out of it.
So let's not argue over which place is good, or which is better, or which one is going down the drain.
Take life it for what it is. Enjoy both the good and the bad that comes with it. Take people for who they are. And refrain from bashing other countries or cultures.

Peace

Chinese and OPEC influence on the US economy are both equally big, but OPEC is merely a cartel with no real military power. China is a major power with heavy influence on the US economy, most American companies outsource their manufacturing there, and they are the largest holder of American Treasuries, which means they have a big say in the future of the Dollar. China is only going to get bigger. Japan actually holds more US debt than China but China will soon surpass it. The oil producing nations in reality hold a fraction of what these two Asian giants hold. All of them still have a massive impact on the US economy.

China is not really Australia's banker, its relationship is more like what Europe was to the USA in the last century, a source of immigrants and ideas. 50 years from now, Australia will probably resemble a microcosm of China. When you get here, you will immediately notice a huge Asian community in Australia, this place has become a magnet for Asian immigrants. The EU has also been holding a big stake in Oz too.

Okay America has its good points but what has gotten me and a lot of other people annoyed is that many North American students are known to complain about what Australia does not have and this and that. Its gets annoying and embarrassing. There are always one or two internationals from NA(almost always a Canadian) who drop out the very first day of class, pretty sad to move halfway around the world and suddenly decide that you do not want to be here.

I self financed my entire education at UQ, no loans. I spent ten years working in the real world before medical school.

In terms of natural resources, Australia is the richest country in the world not in terms of currency. The Chinese and Indians buy a lot of raw materials from Australia.

Yes the Euro is also a big thing, and currency values in the long run reflect the strength of an economy, I could go into a big EU vs USA comparison but this thread is about Oz.

 

[gmacpac]

Chinese and OPEC influence on the US economy are both equally big, but OPEC is merely a cartel with no real military power. China is a major power with heavy influence on the US economy, most American companies outsource their manufacturing there, and they are the largest holder of American Treasuries, which means they have a big say in the future of the Dollar. China is only going to get bigger. Japan actually holds more US debt than China but China will soon surpass it. The oil producing nations in reality hold a fraction of what these two Asian giants hold. All of them still have a massive impact on the US economy.

China is not really Australia's banker, its relationship is more like what Europe was to the USA in the last century, a source of immigrants and ideas. 50 years from now, Australia will probably resemble a microcosm of China. When you get here, you will immediately notice a huge Asian community in Australia, this place has become a magnet for Asian immigrants. The EU has also been holding a big stake in Oz too.

Okay America has its good points but what has gotten me and a lot of other people annoyed is that many North American students are known to complain about what Australia does not have and this and that. Its gets annoying and embarrassing. There are always one or two internationals from NA(almost always a Canadian) who drop out the very first day of class, pretty sad to move halfway around the world and suddenly decide that you do not want to be here.

I self financed my entire education at UQ, no loans. I spent ten years working in the real world before medical school.

In terms of natural resources, Australia is the richest country in the world not in terms of currency. The Chinese and Indians buy a lot of raw materials from Australia.

Yes the Euro is also a big thing, and currency values in the long run reflect the strength of an economy, I could go into a big EU vs USA comparison but this thread is about Oz.

I agree with most of what you're saying in this post. I still think it is debatable whether OPEC is a cartel, or just a group of countries out to make a buck at any cost. Nonetheless, thank you for having a polite tone in this post. I apologize if I was too aggressive in my previous posts.

cheers

 

[JoeNamaMD]

You do realize those Stafford loans will take at least 20 years to pay back?? Calculate the amount of money you will pay in interest alone, the loan companies are not the one doing you a favor. I know some Norwegian students here, their countries are paying the full bill for their education.

Local students whine about HECS, and most of them will have that debt paid off in only a mere 5 years.

I also do not think Australia is without its problems. It definitely has some problems.

 

[gmacpac]

You do realize those Stafford loans will take at least 20 years to pay back?? Calculate the amount of money you will pay in interest alone, the loan companies are not the one doing you a favor. I know some Norwegian students here, their countries are paying the full bill for their education.

Local students whine about HECS, and most of them will have that debt paid off in only a mere 5 years.

I also do not think Australia is without its problems. It definitely has some problems.

Stafford loans is an opportunity. Which many countries don't offer its students. If we compare Stafford loans to grants offered by Norway, we will definitely find Stafford to be a bad deal.
On the flip side, if one was to compare stafford loans to grants/loans offered by most other countries, one would find that it is a good deal.

Bottom line. Stafford loans are an opportunity for those who don't have a penny to pay for school (which will be me).

Also pay back time may be long, but varies with individual. Some people prefer to keep a student loan debt because of tax advantages. I personally like to live debt free. Which is why I paid off all of my undergrad loans in 4 years. But I have to admit, it was tough. I worked tons of over time, lived a modest lifestyle, and forwarded all of my savings to banks.

Now I'm back to zero, with intentions of taking out another $250K for med school. :-(

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Its an opportunity but it also a big responsibility, make sure that once your in, that you finish the program. No getting homesickness all of a sudden. Another real good bit of advice is to go visit Australia for a few weeks to make sure you will like it. Its always smart to see the place you will call home for the next four years, particularly since its halfway around the world.

 

[gmacpac]

Its an opportunity but it also a big responsibility, make sure that once your in, that you finish the program. No getting homesickness all of a sudden. Another real good bit of advice is to go visit Australia for a few weeks to make sure you will like it. Its always smart to see the place you will call home for the next four years, particularly since its halfway around the world.

Strong point. I think I will do that.

 

[redshifteffect]

Strong point. I think I will do that.

Keep in mind too, this isn't a joke. You may not like everything about Australia but one thing it will definitely offer that a lot of places can't is the potential for a job.

A very generous pay while working (much more so then most other places) and a much better lifestyle then most other places. I think Joe is frustrated because of the people who whinge about all the differences (and trust me there are quite a few differences/whingers) and who don't appreciate the fact that they got employment despite being foreigners. They think that this is a "right" because they graduated with an Australian degree.

I think you have to keep this in perspective. The US and Canada (Canada especially) are not easy to get matches into, and require a lot more then handing in your CV and walking into a job (which is currently the case for most states in Oz).

These same people then quit their jobs in Oz (though they are contracted) or like a classmate of mine, write letters after graduating telling the hospitals they are to be employeed in to "f" off because he has a job waiting for him in Canada (he didn't of course, and so ended up working in the same hospital, who had no choice but to rehire him, because they didn't have anyone else to fill the position). Can you imagine doing the same kind of stuff in the US or Canada? Why are these jobs more precious, even though they work you harder and pay you less? I think most people just want these jobs to be taken seriously and given the same respect as other jobs overseas.

BTW these same people then complain when they have to fulfill their rural contracts (if they get jobs in Canada). However these were made quite clear before they accepted their jobs. For some reason most of the whingers are Canadian, and I'm Canadian so I'm not knocking fellow Canadians - but I think we have to get a perspective on the situation!

 

[gmacpac]

Keep in mind too, this isn't a joke. You may not like everything about Australia but one thing it will definitely offer that a lot of places can't is the potential for a job.

A very generous pay while working (much more so then most other places) and a much better lifestyle then most other places. I think Joe is frustrated because of the people who whinge about all the differences (and trust me there are quite a few differences/whingers) and who don't appreciate the fact that they got employment despite being foreigners. They think that this is a "right" because they graduated with an Australian degree.

I think you have to keep this in perspective. The US and Canada (Canada especially) are not easy to get matches into, and require a lot more then handing in your CV and walking into a job (which is currently the case for most states in Oz).

These same people then quit their jobs in Oz (though they are contracted) or like a classmate of mine, write letters after graduating telling the hospitals they are to be employeed in to "f" off because he has a job waiting for him in Canada (he didn't of course, and so ended up working in the same hospital, who had no choice but to rehire him, because they didn't have anyone else to fill the position). Can you imagine doing the same kind of stuff in the US or Canada? Why are these jobs more precious, even though they work you harder and pay you less? I think most people just want these jobs to be taken seriously and given the same respect as other jobs overseas.

BTW these same people then complain when they have to fulfill their rural contracts (if they get jobs in Canada). However these were made quite clear before they accepted their jobs. For some reason most of the whingers are Canadian, and I'm Canadian so I'm not knocking fellow Canadians - but I think we have to get a perspective on the situation!

I can definitely see how some fellow N.Americans can have a sense of entitlement which may cause them to abuse a system. Which off course is clearly wrong.

Secondly, I have some sense of what to expect of a foreign experience. I am actually looking forward to it. Yes, there are going to be lots of small differences between AU and USA, and sometimes I will miss a certain aspect of life in USA. But that's part of a "foreign experience". One not only gets to meet interesting people, see new places, experience new things; rather, at the same time, one also gets to appreciate what one has left behind.

For some reason, us Americans have a reputation of being "whingers". This is not the first time someone has told me about this. I think this constant complaining also has to do with a person's maturity level. While I cannot say I'm totally impervious to it, I don't think I am that type of a person.

I know how cut throat USA residency match is. Which is why I chose AU because of the opportunities it offers in AU after completion of MBBS degree.

Keep in mind. I left a USA DO, and a UK MBBS offer to attend UQ. It was a difficult decision, but a very well thought, and carefully planned decision.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I can definitely see how some fellow N.Americans can have a sense of entitlement which may cause them to abuse a system. Which off course is clearly wrong.

Secondly, I have some sense of what to expect of a foreign experience. I am actually looking forward to it. Yes, there are going to be lots of small differences between AU and USA, and sometimes I will miss a certain aspect of life in USA. But that's part of a "foreign experience". One not only gets to meet interesting people, see new places, experience new things; rather, at the same time, one also gets to appreciate what one has left behind.

For some reason, us Americans have a reputation of being "whingers". This is not the first time someone has told me about this. I think this constant complaining also has to do with a person's maturity level. While I cannot say I'm totally impervious to it, I don't think I am that type of a person.

I know how cut throat USA residency match is. Which is why I chose AU because of the opportunities it offers in AU after completion of MBBS degree.

Keep in mind. I left a USA DO, and a UK MBBS offer to attend UQ. It was a difficult decision, but a very well thought, and carefully planned decision.

You will have a hard time finding Taco Bell and cheap Broadband in Australia, frankly I do not care for TB anymore, last time I was at one in California, I got food poisoning.
I heard Comcast or Cox the US is now limiting their customers to 250GB of downloads and people are complaining. Most broadband plans in Australia only offer a fraction of that. I guess if unless you plan to download bootleg versions of the Dark Knight and a lot of music, it won't be a big issue.

The interesting dynamic in all of this is that virtually all of the whingers are almost always Canadian, you always have some Americans who have some initial culture shock but the Americans get over it quick. I think the reason being is that they took out loans and if they quit, they are financially screwed.

I have been flooded with a bunch of annoying PMs from Canadians who asked me "How do I go back to Canada??". It gets very irritating. There are a lot of students who are focused on working in Oz, and considering the PBL curriculum where you might wind up having to work with some of these whingers is even more annoying. Its also a big reason why I almost avoid all North Americans here like typhoid. You have a fine opportunity placed into your hands and you have the nerve to complain.

I have no idea why people would miss Canada or even some parts of the States when they are going to live in a place like Oz, near some of the world's best coastline, no snow, very little or nonexistent pollution, friendly people, excellent living conditions, an increasingly diverse country as well. Speaking of diversity, I heard a few Canadians/Americans/Brits claim Australia was racist, it has racism but in comparison to North America its not much of an issue. Queensland is considered to be the "redneck" region of Australia, and frankly speaking the people here are about the same as those I knew in San Francisco with regards to attitudes towards different people. I heard of students at SGU's new program in the UK say they were targeted for racist abuse at the University of Newcastle in the UK.

 

[gmacpac]

You will have a hard time finding Taco Bell and cheap Broadband in Australia, frankly I do not care for TB anymore, last time I was at one in California, I got food poisoning.
I heard Comcast or Cox the US is now limiting their customers to 250GB of downloads and people are complaining. Most broadband plans in Australia only offer a fraction of that. I guess if unless you plan to download bootleg versions of the Dark Knight and a lot of music, it won't be a big issue.

The interesting dynamic in all of this is that virtually all of the whingers are almost always Canadian, you always have some Americans who have some initial culture shock but the Americans get over it quick. I think the reason being is that they took out loans and if they quit, they are financially screwed.

I have been flooded with a bunch of annoying PMs from Canadians who asked me "How do I go back to Canada??". It gets very irritating. There are a lot of students who are focused on working in Oz, and considering the PBL curriculum where you might wind up having to work with some of these whingers is even more annoying. Its also a big reason why I almost avoid all North Americans here like typhoid. You have a fine opportunity placed into your hands and you have the nerve to complain.

I have no idea why people would miss Canada or even some parts of the States when they are going to live in a place like Oz, near some of the world's best coastline, no snow, very little or nonexistent pollution, friendly people, excellent living conditions, an increasingly diverse country as well. Speaking of diversity, I heard a few Canadians/Americans/Brits claim Australia was racist, it has racism but in comparison to North America its not much of an issue. Queensland is considered to be the "redneck" region of Australia, and frankly speaking the people here are about the same as those I knew in San Francisco with regards to attitudes towards different people. I heard of students at SGU's new program in the UK say they were targeted for racist abuse at the University of Newcastle in the UK.

I agree, I have been to some places in USA where I felt people were very racist. I didn't have a bad experience in UK in that regards, but I guess it also varies with individual cities within a country. UK's education was just too expensive compared to AU, plus there was very little opportunity to stay there after med school.

Racism was one of my concerns as well in AU as some people had mentioned it being a problem. I have to say Joenamma did a good job in explaining the small cultural differences between USA and AU.

There is always a possibility that I can run into a racist jerk in AU, but I understand its not nearly as bad as I thought it would be initially. Mostly people are tolerant.

I grew up in New York City, which is a very culturally diverse and a large metropolitan city. And even in NYC, I have had many racist encounters.

Cable interenet and all other things are small differences, I dont really let that stuff bother me. I dont much eat outside in USA either due to preferance for healthy food. So it doesnt matter to me if AU's McDonald's, or Taco Bell, or BK is different than USA's.

I'm sure AU is going to have excellent sea food, which will more than make it up for its dietary differences with USA. Besides, our diets are not exactly very health here in general.

One of my main concerns was mobility in late hours of the night. And I believe I pm'ed Joenamma, and he told me that it is not a problem if I live close to the campus or within the city.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I agree, I have been to some places in USA where I felt people were very racist. I didn't have a bad experience in UK in that regards, but I guess it also varies with individual cities within a country. UK's education was just too expensive compared to AU, plus there was very little opportunity to stay there after med school.

Racism was one of my concerns as well in AU as some people had mentioned it being a problem. I have to say Joenamma did a good job in explaining the small cultural differences between USA and AU.

There is always a possibility that I can run into a racist jerk in AU, but I understand its not nearly as bad as I thought it would be initially. Mostly people are tolerant.

I grew up in New York City, which is a very culturally diverse and a large metropolitan city. And even in NYC, I have had many racist encounters.

Cable interenet and all other things are small differences, I dont really let that stuff bother me. I dont much eat outside in USA either due to preferance for healthy food. So it doesnt matter to me if AU's McDonald's, or Taco Bell, or BK is different than USA's.

I'm sure AU is going to have excellent sea food, which will more than make it up for its dietary differences with USA. Besides, our diets are not exactly very health here in general.

One of my main concerns was mobility in late hours of the night. And I believe I pm'ed Joenamma, and he told me that it is not a problem if I live close to the campus or within the city.

Mobility is not too big of a worry in Brisbane without a car. If you lived in the outer Western suburbs of Sydney and went to USyd, then you would have big time issues. You would almost have to find an apartment in Inner Western Sydney to live in a convenient locale to uni, Eastern Sydney such as the Harbour area is for those students with rich daddies also close to the uni but very expensive also very scenic. Beautiful place though.
Not a good idea to travel alone late at night, a guy got bashed up badly by a bunch of drunks in Brisbane.

For someone who generally does not like Fast Food, I have to admit Australian McD's is actually edible. A lot of Asian food is available, Chinese, Thai/Malay, Indian, Japanese etc. in most Australian cities. One Indian restaurant in Brisbane actually closed its buffet because there was a customer coming every single day and eating half of it, very funny when I saw it on the news. The guy was not even fat, he was a retired basketball player.

I was looking into rents for apartments in Sydney, although Sydney apartments tend to be smaller, I did not notice much of a difference in price, its a lot easier to find 1 bedrooms in Sydney than in Brisbane, where the smallest place is usually 2 bedrooms. Darling Harbour, Pyrmont, and Bondi seem like the most expensive locations in Sydney, cheapest place I saw in Pyrmont is around 1200 AUD a month. I have seen the harbour area and its a sight to see, amazing views.

 

[redshifteffect]

Joe the funny thing is that in terms of Broadband Canada has gone the exact opposite. When I first came to Australia you could get "unlimited downloads" in Canada for $50 a month. Last month in Canada almost all internet companies have download restrictions, and then even with download restrictions they still block things like torrents or voip. In Rogers territory you're looking at getting 100 gigs of uploads/downloads for $99 at 18mbps.

That's the same as what I pay for my internet here, but uploads are free.

Cellphones is another story - here incoming calls are free so your $30 recharge (or whatever) goes a long way, even though call rates are higher. Back in Canada I even had to pay tax on my recharge, and when people called me, I was still losing credit. Plus Australia now has unlimited call plans (to the whole country) while Canada doesn't. 3G data here is also a lot cheaper. In Canada you're looking at paying $65 for a mere 1 Gig of data (with Telus)! Even the most uncompetitive carrier here (Telstra) can beat that price!

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Telus-CAPS-Unlimited-EVDO-Data-Plans-97267

Plus the 3G network there is horrible, I would get dropped calls and no signals right outside of Toronto, in clear open places. At least here I've never had problems with that (and I'm not on Telstra).

I guess the problem is people think of things emotionally, and that can sometimes cloud the truth.

 

[gmacpac]

how much should I expect to pay for a used toyota corrolla, or a similarly sized reliable car in AU??

What are the current gas prices?

Are mopeds a common thing in brisbane?

 

[redshifteffect]

how much should I expect to pay for a used toyota corrolla, or a similarly sized reliable car in AU??

What are the current gas prices?

Are mopeds a common thing in brisbane?

A housemate of mine got a Toyota corrolla 2006 for about 11 000 privately. I'm not sure if that's good value or not, but it seemed like there were quite a few choices out there. This was after 1-2 weeks of searching.

Gas as discussed on an other thread is 93 Grade Octane here, and varies from state to state, with Queensland typically having the lowest prices.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Just get used piece of junk, preferably a Toyota or Honda, and you should not have problems.

I have to say that lifestyle/salary wise Australia is better, and I really doubt the US is going to see a big economic turnaround any time soon, if ever. Australia gets affected by what happens in Asia, I don't see any major economic calamity affecting the big Asian countries. China is going up like a rocket to the moon.

 

[gmacpac]

Hey Joe...which airline do you recommend to use for AU travel??

I was planning on going with Qantas...but thought i'd check with you first.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Qantas is the only one that offers direct flights and you can credit your miles to American Airlines. The other good one is Air New Zealand but they partner with United. United's mileage plus sucks, they let your mileage expire after a while.

All the airlines are about the same, I think the cheapest is Eva, but its kind of ghetto not that Qantas is amazing either(they hardly give you enough to eat on the flight).

 

[gmacpac]

Qantas is the only one that offers direct flights and you can credit your miles to American Airlines. The other good one is Air New Zealand but they partner with United. United's mileage plus sucks, they let your mileage expire after a while.

All the airlines are about the same, I think the cheapest is Eva, but its kind of ghetto not that Qantas is amazing either(they hardly give you enough to eat on the flight).

Thanks. Sounds like modern day air travel. I don't think any airline beats Delta when it comes to being cheap. They sell you everything, even water....talk about an airline which is about to go out of business.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Those of you from North America who might see Aussie trained doctors as second tier..think again, here are some Australian graduates at some of the USA's top medical institutions:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/bio/10847111.html

http://www.mayoclinic.org/bio/10399631.html

http://www.celiacdiseasecenter.columbia.edu/E_About/E03-pStaffBios.htm

http://www.mskcc.org/prg/prg/bios/895.cfm

http://www.mskcc.org/prg/prg/bios/811.cfm

http://www.mskcc.org/prg/prg/bios/653.cfm

http://www.mskcc.org/prg/prg/bios/907.cfm

http://distance.jhsph.edu/sti/about/about-fac.cfm

http://www.physio.northwestern.edu/Secondlevel/Rymer.html

http://cvmedicine.stanford.edu/vascularmedicine/newaboutus.html

 

[shan564]

I don't think anybody said that Aussie doctors are second tier... the point is just that a lot of Americans just don't know the difference between different Australian schools.

 

[gmacpac]

Those of you from North America who might see Aussie trained doctors as second tier..think again, here are some Australian graduates at some of the USA's top medical institutions:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/bio/10847111.html

http://www.mayoclinic.org/bio/10399631.html

http://www.celiacdiseasecenter.columbia.edu/E_About/E03-pStaffBios.htm

http://www.mskcc.org/prg/prg/bios/895.cfm

http://www.mskcc.org/prg/prg/bios/811.cfm

http://www.mskcc.org/prg/prg/bios/653.cfm

http://www.mskcc.org/prg/prg/bios/907.cfm

http://distance.jhsph.edu/sti/about/about-fac.cfm

http://www.physio.northwestern.edu/Secondlevel/Rymer.html

http://cvmedicine.stanford.edu/vascularmedicine/newaboutus.html

Also keep in mind that most of these clinicians are older graduates. Residency matches were relatively easier back then.

I don't think AU schools are second tier, but as an FMG residency match is an uphill battle.

I personally know a physician who graduated from an UNKOWN medical school and matched in Intl Med at Yale.......that was in 1972. Now things are different. Its going to be very tough to match into these places in the current matching environment.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Also keep in mind that most of these clinicians are older graduates. Residency matches were relatively easier back then.

I don't think AU schools are second tier, but as an FMG residency match is an uphill battle.

I personally know a physician who graduated from an UNKOWN medical school and matched in Intl Med at Yale.......that was in 1972. Now things are different. Its going to be very tough to match into these places in the current matching environment.

Things are equally getting more and more difficult in the same respects for FMGs in Australia. We are all unsure of the future of the US economy and prospects of practing medicine in America over the next 30 years. Australian physicians are on average now getting paid equal to or greater than many of their American and Canadian counterparts.

I think it would be fair to say that irrespective of where you wish to live and practice it is better to get in early and do most of your training there.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Things are equally getting more and more difficult in the same respects for FMGs in Australia. We are all unsure of the future of the US economy and prospects of practing medicine in America over the next 30 years. Australian physicians are on average now getting paid equal to or greater than many of their American and Canadian counterparts.

I think it would be fair to say that irrespective of where you wish to live and practice it is better to get in early and do most of your training there.

The US economy is not a sure thing anymore, that is a big truth. Actually IMGs always had it hard. I am not sure if Western physicians will be needed or wanted in China or India in another 20 years. You would also need language skills to practice in the EU, and I think Europe is experiencing an oversupply of physicians.

Australian physicians these days earn about equal pay to their US counterparts, just over a decade ago, this was not the case.

 

[gmacpac]

The US economy is not a sure thing anymore, that is a big truth. Actually IMGs always had it hard. I am not sure if Western physicians will be needed or wanted in China or India in another 20 years. You would also need language skills to practice in the EU, and I think Europe is experiencing an oversupply of physicians.

Australian physicians these days earn about equal pay to their US counterparts, just over a decade ago, this was not the case.

Good to know. I think there are some opportunities to work in India or China, but I'm not sure most of us will be willing to live in an entirely different culture.
Australia is an excellent choice because of similarities in language and culture.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Interesting article about the post American era:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/m...r=1&ref=magazine&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
I will take a lot of this with a grain of salt since its published by the NY Times, but even more middle and conservative papers are saying the same thing.

 

[redshifteffect]

Australian physicians these days earn about equal pay to their US counterparts, just over a decade ago, this was not the case.

The other thing to keep in mind is malpractice insurance is significiantly less. For example in Neurosurgery (in the US) this can be as much as 1/3 of your salary, whereas here (with some private practice included) it's about 2-4% of your salary. That's a huge cost savings right there.

If you do some public work you also get additional income, plus a new car, laptop and free fuel. That's also a significant cost savings as well.

Finally, anyone working in the public system gets overtime pay, call backs, and upto 4X your hourly rate depending on the circumstance which is a significant portion of your salary. So even if the base salary looks less, it's more then compensated for by the extra pay from overtime/call backs etc.