Anyone enrolled in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program

[SB100]

I was told about this repayment program by a current resident, who says he is basically paying the minimal amount in his monthly loan payments and, after 120 months or 10 years of repayment, his loans will be forgiven. Is it really that simple? I know there are requirements for your current employment being a non-profit or 501(c)3 charitable organization, but most academic medical centers that offer residency and fellowship programs meet that requirement.

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[dynx]

It's that simple. The gov is flush with cash and they have carefully thought out the budget ramifications of forgiving these loans so it will surely be no problem. It's such a simple process, no contract, no messy paperwork...you just trust that the program is going to pay off in 10 years. As this is such an incredible deal I've actually put together an investment plan for medical students based on this program. You borrow as much money as you can, more than you need for your education and with that extra money I'll sell you fractional ownership of a bridge. Think about it! The money is free anyway (gov just going to forgive it in 10 years) might as well use it. And bridges are a real necessity, private bridges can amass huge profits in tolls. Pluss, building bridges is a shovel ready job, think of the economy, what about the children?

Make checks payable to DYNX thanks

 

[dsherida]

As you can tell there is a lot of sketicism if this program will cont in 10years. The hope is that if something changed you would be grandfathered in if you were already in the program. First you have to apply and be accepted for IBR. After this, you can apply for the PSLF program and they will let you konw if your employer qualifies. One thing is that for a person who is single or even married without kids, under IBR with a resident salary you are looking at $300-400/mo which isn't as cheap as your post thought. There are a bunch of IBR calculators online where you can try your income. I have asked direct loans (the servicer) many times if they see this standing time and they always say yes. Who knows...I personally am in the program with the knowledge that one day it may kick me out; who knows. It would literally take an act of congress so we'll see. One other way to look at it is that even if it does fold in the end, you will be that much more ahead of the people who are putting their loans into forebearance right now and accruing MORE and MORE interest. Let me know if I can help with anymore questions...

 

[baddog125]

I was told by my lender Great lakes my resisdenyc does not count towards 10 years in Public sector work. They do not count residency as work. This makes the public sector loan forgiveness not so good.

 

[DrMidlife]

I was told by my lender Great lakes my resisdenyc does not count towards 10 years in Public sector work. They do not count residency as work. This makes the public sector loan forgiveness not so good.

I suggest you may want to do more work to understand what "public service" means. PSLF has rules; you have to understand them, and you have to follow them.

 

[SB100]

So aside from applying to do income-based repayment (which I presume I can't do until I start residency), is there any other paperwork that I need to fill out to participate in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program? I want to make sure I'm "on record" in case the program doesn't survive as anticipated and I have the opportunity to be grandfathered in.

 

[DrBowtie]

So aside from applying to do income-based repayment (which I presume I can't do until I start residency), is there any other paperwork that I need to fill out to participate in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program? I want to make sure I'm "on record" in case the program doesn't survive as anticipated and I have the opportunity to be grandfathered in.

You aren't in the program. You apply after making 120 qualifying payments.

 

[DrMidlife]

1. Google PSLF.
2. Go to the studentloans.gov link that is the #1 result
3. Look for "how can I keep track of my eligibility?" and go to that section
4. Do the stuff it says in that section. Hint: it's much more than nothing.

Best of luck to you.

 

[axm028400]

Residency does count towards PSLF if you work at a public hospital/program at least. I have been enrolled in PSLF in residency for 1.5 years at this point.

 

[SaintJude]

Also, I think you have to pay a pre-determined maximum amount according to your salary. Given a physicians salary, this may may end up being a larger monthly payment than under a regular plan. ( You could instead spread it out in 15 years and perhaps save more of an emergency fund or put money away to retirement to accrue interest)

Still may be worth it.

 

[sazerac]

Also, I think you have to pay a pre-determined maximum amount according to your salary. Given a physicians salary, this may may end up being a larger monthly payment than under a regular plan. ( You could instead spread it out in 15 years and perhaps save more of an emergency fund or put money away to retirement to accrue interest)

Still may be worth it.

It's a pre-determined minimum, not maximum. You are never required to pay more than the minimum of your payment plan and the 10 year standard plan.

 

[EJR9008]

Does specialty matter when determining if you qualify for PSLF?

 

[RangerBob]

Does specialty matter when determining if you qualify for PSLF?

As of right now, no. But there are theories that it's possible the government might limit PSLF to just those in primary care. But even more feel that the program will probably be scrapped for all physicians/high earners. The program really wasn't created to benefit physicians/lawyers/etc, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in 2017 when the first cohort is eligible for forgiveness.

 

[PAYE1]

As of right now, no. But there are theories that it's possible the government might limit PSLF to just those in primary care. But even more feel that the program will probably be scrapped for all physicians/high earners. The program really wasn't created to benefit physicians/lawyers/etc, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in 2017 when the first cohort is eligible for forgiveness.

Note that medicine is unique in that you typically have a number of years of "public interest" work where you don't make much money, followed by years of high earning. This doesn't really happen in other fields. A lawyer doing public interest work for ten years is very unlikely to start making $200K after her debt is forgiven. As a result, PSLF is uniquely a windfall for doctors as currently structured.

In my view, pretty much all future doctors should be taking out max loans and spending nothing out of pocket. The cost if the government does change the rules is very small (extra interest) compared to the potential benefit (essentially free 4 years tuition + cost of living).

 

[deleted503015]

As of right now, no. But there are theories that it's possible the government might limit PSLF to just those in primary care. But even more feel that the program will probably be scrapped for all physicians/high earners. The program really wasn't created to benefit physicians/lawyers/etc, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in 2017 when the first cohort is eligible for forgiveness.

Current news stories like this:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...gress-federal-employee-student-loans/2434323/

make me really skeptical about PSLF staying around for physicians.

EDIT: in case you don't feel like clicking. Article is called "Taxpayers pay millions for fed workers' student loans"

 

[RangerBob]

Current news stories like this:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...gress-federal-employee-student-loans/2434323/

make me really skeptical about PSLF staying around for physicians.

EDIT: in case you don't feel like clicking. Article is called "Taxpayers pay millions for fed workers' student loans"

I unfortunately agree. Personally, I'd love to benefit from PSLF, and the truth is I will try to benefit from it (smartly though--after residency is over I'll pay more than the minimum in case the program disappears. I'll basically hedge my bets, leaning more towards the disappearance of the program).

I really think PSLF is a terrible policy as it not only encourages students to max out on borrowing (which in turn encourages bad financial habits), but also can encourage universities to worry less about keeping tuition affordable, which makes a college (or professional) education that much more difficult for those without the means.

I think there are far better ways the government could have tackled student loan debt. It'll be interesting to see if the government comes up with a comprehensive student loan plan in the near future.

 

[Zagaza]

Enrolled this year, so i dont find out in 2023.i wouldnt be holding my breath till then."chipping this iceberg" as fast as i can.Good luck to us all hopefulls.Till then we are all sl*ves.Like it or not

 

[DoktorO]

Enrolled this year, so i dont find out in 2023.i wouldnt be holding my breath till then."chipping this iceberg" as fast as i can.Good luck to us all hopefulls.Till then we are all sl*ves.Like it or not

You do not get enrolled. You do your 10 year work, then you apply to get your loans forgiven. So this program could disappear 9 years into your 10 year work and you'll be left with a huge sum of debt that you planned to get forgiven

 

[Mac or Miller]

I was told by my lender Great lakes my residency does not count towards 10 years in Public sector work. They do not count residency as work. This makes the public sector loan forgiveness not so good.

Once you fill out and send in this form:

http://studentaid.ed.gov/sites/default/files/public-service-employment-certification-form.pdf

the Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency will buy your loan from Great Lakes.

This form does not "enroll" anyone in the program. It is just a head start on verification down the line.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

If you are not a primary care doctor, you most likely make too much money to qualify for the PSLF.

Check your eligibility here.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

If you are not a primary care doctor, you most likely make too much money to qualify for the PSLF.

Check your eligibility here.

Although this may be the case for many specialists who graduated med school a decade ago, current and future grads and leaving school with 300+ debt. Consider a person who attends a school with COA of 75k/year. This person will graduate med school with at least 340K of total debt (principle + interests and not including any undergrad debts). If this person enrolls in IBR/PAYE and do a 6 year of post graduate training, the 340K will end up ballooning to ~450k by the end of residency/fellowship. In order to NOT qualify for IBR/PAYE, this person should be making over 450k/year.

 

[sazerac]

If you are not a primary care doctor, you most likely make too much money to qualify for the PSLF.

Check your eligibility here.

That is a website for IBR which is a repayment plan while you still have loans.

It is irrelevant to PSLF which is a loan forgiveness program.

If you work for 120 months at a nonprofit (including residency and attending), your loans will be forgiven via the PSLF program, no matter what the size of your income is.

 

[Zagaza]

You do not get enrolled. You do your 10 year work, then you apply to get your loans forgiven. So this program could disappear 9 years into your 10 year work and you'll be left with a huge sum of debt that you planned to get forgiven

Yes i did enroll technically, but not completely.As "complete enrollment" means after you have made your 120 payments..My loans were switched to Fed loans from the previous carrier so that they can follow and verify the process for the 10yrs.When i asked why my loans were transferred the customer service told me that sallie mae and great lakes dont do this."dont quote me""Yes true the program might go away which is a possibility, that is why i am not holding my breath but paying alot every month.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

That is a website for IBR which is a repayment plan while you still have loans.

It is irrelevant to PSLF which is a loan forgiveness program.

If you work for 120 months at a nonprofit (including residency and attending), your loans will be forgiven via the PSLF program, no matter what the size of your income is.

I don't think that you understand the eligibility criteria for the PSLF program. The size of your income will absolutely determine your eligibility for the PSLF program. As it stands today, specialists will likely not qualify for this program even if they work at a qualifying institution. This program is for the IBR/ICR/Pay As You Earn crowd.

Educate yourself here.

 

[sazerac]

I don't think that you understand the eligibility criteria for the PSLF program. The size of your income will absolutely determine your eligibility for the PSLF program. As it stands today, specialists will likely not qualify for this program even if they work at a qualifying institution. This program is for the IBR/ICR/Pay As You Earn crowd.

Educate yourself here.

The website you posted says you get PSLF if you make 120 qualifying payments. It also says qualifying payments are those made through IBR, PAYE, or the standard 10 year repayment plan.

So a specialist can make a few years payments at low resident IBR rates, make a few more years payments at the 10 year rate, and once they have been paying loans for a total of ten years (say five at the resident rate and five more at the standard 10 year rate), the remaining balance is forgiven.

There is nothing in the website you posted that disqualifies a specialist from qualifying for PSLF.

My original point still stands as posted, even according to your website.

 

[DrMidlife]

Agree.

I don't think that you understand the eligibility criteria for the PSLF program.

I don't think you've read the eligibility criteria. Read your own link. There's nothing about income level. And it specifically says that the nature of your employment within public service is irrelevant.

You may not be aware that a growing number of hospitals and healthcare organizations are the employers of specialists such as surgeons. And a large number of those hospitals and healthcare organizations are non-profit.

 

[happypremed1]

http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/charts/public-service

Whoaaa! It does sound too good to be true! Holly cow! What's the latest word on this? It seems like this is a loophole for physicians to get out of debt. Once many people jump through, I'm afraid they'll start to impose some eligibility criteria.

I'm not sure what I'm missing here. If PSLF is simple and straightforward like that, I'll borrow up to the cost of attendance and have a great lifestyle as a medical student.

 

[freaker]

http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/charts/public-service

Whoaaa! It does sound too good to be true! Holly cow! What's the latest word on this? It seems like this is a loophole for physicians to get out of debt. Once many people jump through, I'm afraid they'll start to impose some eligibility criteria. I'm not sure what I'm missing here. If PSLF is simple and straightforward like that, I'll borrow up to the cost of attendance and have a great lifestyle as a medical student.

Exactly why are you belittling and undermining the work that you perform by calling it a "loophole?" Is there something less charitable that you do that makes your work for a non-profit less valuable than work done in another profession? Really? Some global warming or other such BS advocacy group that produces something far less tangible than the direct care for health of an individual is "more deserving" than work you perform? Or for some advocacy law group achieving to shift the public discourse to their preferred viewpoint? Why?

That said, the idea of living it up as a medical student is both naive and foolish. And unnecessary. The point of this program is to alleviate debt from those who enters careers of public service for non-profits. I fail to see how a resident slaving away at 80-hours per week for minimal does not meet that criteria (whether those criteria should exist in the first place is perfectly debateable, IMHO). If you live it up as a medical student, your student loans will still be considered if you apply for a conventional mortgage, a car loan, or any other move involving credit at all points where your debt still exist. You'll moreover be expected to make (higher) payments on those loans coming out of residency as an attending--exactly the time when you could use a bit more money and have some major expenses ahead. To "live it up as a medical student" also runs against the raison d'etre of this program and frankly shows some moral and ethical shortcomings. Think through it a bit and see what you think.

 

[Perrotfish]

Exactly why are you belittling and undermining the work that you perform by calling it a "loophole?" Is there something less charitable that you do that makes your work for a non-profit less valuable than work done in another profession? Really? Some global warming or other such BS advocacy group that produces something far less tangible than the direct care for health of an individual is "more deserving" than work you perform? Or for some advocacy law group achieving to shift the public discourse to their preferred viewpoint? Why?

Come on, lets not lie to ourselves: this is a bull**** loophole. That's why I'm not confident it will be around. You're not doing anything charitable, you're not giving up a lucrative job to work for a lower paid all volunteer nonprofit/government agency (what the forgiveness was designed for). You're getting a full, normal physician salary working for a giant hospital system which is itself only a non-profit in the bull**** legal sense that it uses its massive profit margins and taxs savings to pay its board members rather than shareholders. You are not serving the public any more than anyone who works at any other full time job. There is no risk and no sacrifice involved in that.

 

[happypremed1]

Exactly why are you belittling and undermining the work that you perform by calling it a "loophole?" Is there something less charitable that you do that makes your work for a non-profit less valuable than work done in another profession? Really? Some global warming or other such BS advocacy group that produces something far less tangible than the direct care for health of an individual is "more deserving" than work you perform? Or for some advocacy law group achieving to shift the public discourse to their preferred viewpoint? Why?

That said, the idea of living it up as a medical student is both naive and foolish. And unnecessary. The point of this program is to alleviate debt from those who enters careers of public service for non-profits. I fail to see how a resident slaving away at 80-hours per week for minimal does not meet that criteria (whether those criteria should exist in the first place is perfectly debateable, IMHO). If you live it up as a medical student, your student loans will still be considered if you apply for a conventional mortgage, a car loan, or any other move involving credit at all points where your debt still exist. You'll moreover be expected to make (higher) payments on those loans coming out of residency as an attending--exactly the time when you could use a bit more money and have some major expenses ahead. To "live it up as a medical student" also runs against the raison d'etre of this program and frankly shows some moral and ethical shortcomings. Think through it a bit and see what you think.

I called it a loophole because almost every residents I talked to had no idea about it. They all thought that the public service programs would only forgive loans for physicians working in the underserved communities. Obviously, not a lot of people know about PSLF. I'm in shock after reading through the entire website. I kept asking myself, "what's the catch?"

The first group of people that get PSLF will be in 2017. I'm entering med school in August 2014, but I highly doubt that PSLF will be around by the time I qualify to apply.

Almost all the hospitals in the US are for non-profit. I know that a lot of academic medicine positions pay quite well and have very reasonable working hours.

 

[doccy]

Come on, lets not lie to ourselves: this is a bull**** loophole. That's why I'm not confident it will be around. You're not doing anything charitable, you're not giving up a lucrative job to work for a lower paid all volunteer nonprofit/government agency (what the forgiveness was designed for). You're getting a full, normal physician salary working for a giant hospital system which is itself only a non-profit in the bull**** legal sense that it uses its massive profit margins and taxs savings to pay its board members rather than shareholders. You are not serving the public any more than anyone who works at any other full time job. There is no risk and no sacrifice involved in that.

It's harder than it sounds to find a 501(c)(3) that actually hires doctors and issues paychecks directly. More often than not, charity hospitals contract with private doctor groups to supply doctors to work at the hospital. So even though you're an internist or ER doc or whatever and work all day inside a charity hospital, your paycheck comes from the private doctor group, and so your employment does not qualify for PSLF.

You need to find a hospital-owned practice (and ensure they don't hire via a private doctor group), or a true charity clinic, or a VA/military hospital, or a government entity (FDA, etc) to qualify.

 

[mark110]

You need to find a hospital-owned practice (and ensure they don't hire via a private doctor group), or a true charity clinic, or a VA/military hospital, or a government entity (FDA, etc) to qualify.

Does this mainly apply to physicians? How about nurses that work for Kaiser? Can they still apply?

 

[a runner]

Does this mainly apply to physicians? How about nurses that work for Kaiser? Can they still apply?

Nurses are directly employed by the hospital and so would qualify if the hospital is non-profit. In the case of Kaiser, yes, they are non-profit.

 

[tabbycatdontcur]

If people would be honest and only borrow what they need to borrow instead of being selfish and borrowing the max amount just because they can and the government aka everyone else will pick up their selfish lifestyle tab. Our world is screwed up. People will exploit as much as they can even when there is no reason to. This is why the program will not last but it would possibly have a chance if people actually cared about other people.

 

[DCBFan]

It's harder than it sounds to find a 501(c)(3) that actually hires doctors and issues paychecks directly. More often than not, charity hospitals contract with private doctor groups to supply doctors to work at the hospital. So even though you're an internist or ER doc or whatever and work all day inside a charity hospital, your paycheck comes from the private doctor group, and so your employment does not qualify for PSLF.

You need to find a hospital-owned practice (and ensure they don't hire via a private doctor group), or a true charity clinic, or a VA/military hospital, or a government entity (FDA, etc) to qualify.

True, but if you happen to have just finished a 5-7 year residency/fellowship, it wouldn't be that difficult to find qualifying work for a few years.

If people would be honest and only borrow what they need to borrow instead of being selfish and borrowing the max amount just because they can and the government aka everyone else will pick up their selfish lifestyle tab. Our world is screwed up. People will exploit as much as they can even when there is no reason to. This is why the program will not last but it would possibly have a chance if people actually cared about other people.

I think the real problem with the program is that it in no way does what it is intended to do. Some person going into (For example) cosmetic dermatology is somehow engaging in "public service" throughout residency and fellowship just because it's at an academic medical center? What a joke. Weirdly enough, if you happen to go join a primary care practice out in rural Idaho you would not qualify for this most generous of programs.

Yes, the uncapped nature of the forgiveness creates a moral hazard like you said, but I would have no problem with people getting 400k+ forgiven, just so long as they were actually serving the public in some needed capacity.

 

[Information Underload]

Someone going into cosmetic dermatology isn't going to work for a non-profit out of residency. Someone in primary care in rural Idaho probably is. Or at the very least is eligible for NHSC loan forgiveness, which in my estimation is better than PSLF. I am eligible for both. The closest major academic medical center to me is probably 7 hours by car if weather holds up.

 

[tabbycatdontcur]

True. This is also the other key factor. Just because you're at a "non-profit" hospital doesn't mean you're actually helping a big need. I think these two factors make this program very unlikely to stay around. 10,000 med students borrowing $10,000 more dollars than they need for 4 years=$400,000,000. That's a lot in the grand scheme of things.
I want to do underserved and international missions so I hope I will still have my loans forgiven because I went to a private school and did pharmacy school for 1.5 years before deciding on med school. Even though I received scholarships, I already have 6 figures in debt and I haven't even started yet.

I think the real problem with the program is that it in no way does what it is intended to do. Some person going into (For example) cosmetic dermatology is somehow engaging in "public service" throughout residency and fellowship just because it's at an academic medical center? What a joke. Weirdly enough, if you happen to go join a primary care practice out in rural Idaho you would not qualify for this most generous of programs.

Yes, the uncapped nature of the forgiveness creates a moral hazard like you said, but I would have no problem with people getting 400k+ forgiven, just so long as they were actually serving the public in some needed capacity.

 

[a runner]

That's why schools have something called "cost of attendance" and you can only borrow up to that amount. There's no reason why someone shouldn't be able to borrow what the FA officials at a school have determined is the bare bones cost to attend that school if they have no other resources. Now if their mommy and daddy are paying their way and they still borrow, that is messed up and really shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Mad Jack]

Someone going into cosmetic dermatology isn't going to work for a non-profit out of residency. Someone in primary care in rural Idaho probably is. Or at the very least is eligible for NHSC loan forgiveness, which in my estimation is better than PSLF. I am eligible for both. The closest major academic medical center to me is probably 7 hours by car if weather holds up.

There are opportunities for someone in derm to work nonprofit for a few years just to take advantage of PSLF. Whether the program will still be around when anyone has been practicing long enough to collect, well... That's another story.

 

[sazerac]

There are opportunities for someone in derm to work nonprofit for a few years just to take advantage of PSLF. Whether the program will still be around when anyone has been practicing long enough to collect, well... That's another story.

Well the PSLF program started in 2007, and 2017 is really right around the corner.

The odds of it existing are interesting, especially since lawyers are getting most of the press on the topic. The public is miffed that a lawyer can work for the government for 10 years collecting contacts and networking, get student loans paid off, and then go into private practice. However, the PSLF program is a law passed by lawyers themselves. I think the program has more staying power than we give it credit. I certainly think any proposed changes would grandfather in anybody who has already made IBR / PAYE payments before the change, because the lawyers will always protect their own.

What might really cause revolt and the termination of PSLF is more publicity about the current Georgetown Law deal, where the school itself pays your IBR/PAYE payments for the first 10 years (because the cost of ten years of IBR/PAYE payments has already been folded in to Georgetown Law tuition). Thus the student goes to law school for free, Georgetown collects in net its normal tuition, and the taxpayer is held liable for both 100% of the arbitrary Georgetown Law tuition and 100% of the 10 years of income-based loan payments. Georgetown could charge whatever tuition is wanted (even hypothetically a billion dollars a year) and neither the student lawyer nor Georgetown would suffer in the slightest. It's a genius loophole, really, one that you'd only expect from a coven of lawyers.

I'm surprised no medical school has followed suit.

Most medical students will make less than $2,000,000 in the first ten years beyond school itself. PAYE payments would be less than $200,000 total. Just jack up tuition by another $50,000 a year, and promise all applicants a free medical school education (if they can stay in public service for the first ten years). Would be quite interesting indeed.

 

[Mad Jack]

Well the PSLF program started in 2007, and 2017 is really right around the corner.

The odds of it existing are interesting, especially since lawyers are getting most of the press on the topic. The public is miffed that a lawyer can work for the government for 10 years collecting contacts and networking, get student loans paid off, and then go into private practice. However, the PSLF program is a law passed by lawyers themselves. I think the program has more staying power than we give it credit. I certainly think any proposed changes would grandfather in anybody who has already made IBR / PAYE payments before the change, because the lawyers will always protect their own.

What might really cause revolt and the termination of PSLF is more publicity about the current Georgetown Law deal, where the school itself pays your IBR/PAYE payments for the first 10 years (because the cost of ten years of IBR/PAYE payments has already been folded in to Georgetown Law tuition). Thus the student goes to law school for free, Georgetown collects in net its normal tuition, and the taxpayer is held liable for both 100% of the arbitrary Georgetown Law tuition and 100% of the 10 years of income-based loan payments. Georgetown could charge whatever tuition is wanted (even hypothetically a billion dollars a year) and neither the student lawyer nor Georgetown would suffer in the slightest. It's a genius loophole, really, one that you'd only expect from a coven of lawyers.

I'm surprised no medical school has followed suit.

Most medical students will make less than $2,000,000 in the first ten years beyond school itself. PAYE payments would be less than $200,000 total. Just jack up tuition by another $50,000 a year, and promise all applicants a free medical school education (if they can stay in public service for the first ten years). Would be quite interesting indeed.

Yeah... Things like this are the reason it's unsustainable. It was a pipe-dream idea to have unlimited PSLF funding available, but our country literally can't afford it, especially with all of the unintended consequences like the Georgetown deal attached.

 

[tabbycatdontcur]

Uhhh every single school has a padded cost of attendance...it's not even close to the bare bones. If you live frugally like a student then you seriously can cut the cost down by half or more of what the school has expected...I did when I was in pharm school and hope I can find people in med school who want to live life frugally as well. If you share a room or just a large house with lots of people with your own room, live somewhere close so you don't drive (but bike or longboard or walk or frolick) or carpool, keep the heat low and the ac low, hardly ever eat out, find free things to do, cut out cable and/or internet, etc you can easily cut it down by half. Even if you aren't as extreme you can still easily not max out your loans per year. You either live like a student when you're a student or live like a student later.

That's why schools have something called "cost of attendance" and you can only borrow up to that amount. There's no reason why someone shouldn't be able to borrow what the FA officials at a school have determined is the bare bones cost to attend that school if they have no other resources. Now if their mommy and daddy are paying their way and they still borrow, that is messed up and really shouldn't be allowed.