hi, anybody out there applying to philippino schools? Which schools and why? What is the next test date for the NMAT in the usa? Thanks for any info.
anyone else applying to philippino schools?
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Steph, I'm an MS1 in the Philippines. I'm originally from NY and went undergrad in Boston College.
The NMAT is held twice a year in the States in two locations. Usually in February and October in New York City and in Los Angeles. Contact either the Philippine Consulate in NYC or LA to get more information about the exam and when.
Also, since the school year here is June-March the application period is different as well. I had to hand in my applications in November and got my acceptance notification in late March.
Also, make sure you know all the requirements you need for the schools you are applying to. And when in doubt have the Consulate authenticate EVERYTHING, since the level of red tape in this country is horrendous.
Either way, good luck in applying.
The NMAT is held twice a year in the States in two locations. Usually in February and October in New York City and in Los Angeles. Contact either the Philippine Consulate in NYC or LA to get more information about the exam and when.
Also, since the school year here is June-March the application period is different as well. I had to hand in my applications in November and got my acceptance notification in late March.
Also, make sure you know all the requirements you need for the schools you are applying to. And when in doubt have the Consulate authenticate EVERYTHING, since the level of red tape in this country is horrendous.
Either way, good luck in applying.
Thanks for your input guys. I found something on the internet last night about taking the NMAT on march 9, 2002. I am looking into this now. Can anyone tell me a little more about the test? Is it very comparable to the mcat?Also, could anyone give the (+ & -)'s of the schools they are familiar with? I dont want to do my residency in the usa. Are there any other options? What if I was an EU citizen? Does this open any other possibilities?And one more, I hope isnt too personal, did all of you pay on or around that mid 30K range or less? It seems too good to be true. What's the catch? Any info is most appreciated. Thanx!! (BTW, sorry to disappoint all the gorgeous philippino grrls, but i'm a straight chick!! :wink: )
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Steph,
I think that you're the same steph who posted on that other messageboard about Med School in the Philippines. I'm the Raf who gave you that answer so you know what I have to say on the topic of residencies other than in the USA.
As for tuition and all fees included, at my school (University of Santo Tomas-www.ust.edu.ph), it's going to be roughly 60,000 Philippine Pesos per semester next year. Which is roughly US$1,200. So it's roughly US$2,400 each year for the preclinical years (Add ~30% for clinical year). But you have to throw in a one-time $10,000 "out of state" development fee.
So in a nutshell, one year tuiton, room& boards and associated fees at my private-undergraduate college will have cost me more than my four years here at UST. About $35,000/yr vs ~$9,000-$10,000/4yrs. So for me, going to school here is a trade-off of having the cheaper tuition and being debt-free when I go back to the states versus the much harder route of being a US-IMG in search of a residency back home.
BTW, the books here are cheaper in comparison to the states. But they're printed on lower quality paper and the pictures are often in black and white or monochrome as opposed to full color.
-Raf
I think that you're the same steph who posted on that other messageboard about Med School in the Philippines. I'm the Raf who gave you that answer so you know what I have to say on the topic of residencies other than in the USA.
As for tuition and all fees included, at my school (University of Santo Tomas-www.ust.edu.ph), it's going to be roughly 60,000 Philippine Pesos per semester next year. Which is roughly US$1,200. So it's roughly US$2,400 each year for the preclinical years (Add ~30% for clinical year). But you have to throw in a one-time $10,000 "out of state" development fee.
So in a nutshell, one year tuiton, room& boards and associated fees at my private-undergraduate college will have cost me more than my four years here at UST. About $35,000/yr vs ~$9,000-$10,000/4yrs. So for me, going to school here is a trade-off of having the cheaper tuition and being debt-free when I go back to the states versus the much harder route of being a US-IMG in search of a residency back home.
BTW, the books here are cheaper in comparison to the states. But they're printed on lower quality paper and the pictures are often in black and white or monochrome as opposed to full color.
-Raf
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I totally forgot about the NMAT part of your question. About the thing you found on the internet about the nmat being held in march of this year. If I were you, I'd call the Philippine Consulate General in New York City (212-764-1330) and tell them that you are interested in taking the NMAT. They probably refer you to Mr. Jose Ramos (if not, ask for him/his number). He's the guy who's responsible for administering the NMAT in the East Coast of the US. And again, if I were you, I'd call ASAP, because you need to register and get all the paperwork done before they'll let you take the test.
As for how it compares to the MCAT, I found the NMAT somewhat easier. Whereas the MCAT tests you on concepts and application. The NMAT is more on concepts. It's composed of Math, Physics, Bio, Verbal, Social Sciences, Visual Acuity, Observation, and other things. It felt more like a combination of the MCAT and portions of those basic skills exams from High School that I took.
But I also found the NMAT much more physically exhausting than the MCAT. Where you have 15 minute breaks in between sections on the MCAT, with the NMAT, you show up at 8am, go thru the 1st part of the test (200?s) in 3.5 hours straight, 1hr break for lunch, then another 3hrs (~175?s).
I took the MCAT in August of 1999 and took a Kaplan review course. I then sent in the paperwork to take the NMAT in October of 1999. I took a 3 wk break after the MCAT and kept at the reviewbooks and took the NMAT. I ended up getting a 30 on the MCAT and placing in the 99th percentile on the NMAT.
Good luck and call ASAP,
Raf
As for how it compares to the MCAT, I found the NMAT somewhat easier. Whereas the MCAT tests you on concepts and application. The NMAT is more on concepts. It's composed of Math, Physics, Bio, Verbal, Social Sciences, Visual Acuity, Observation, and other things. It felt more like a combination of the MCAT and portions of those basic skills exams from High School that I took.
But I also found the NMAT much more physically exhausting than the MCAT. Where you have 15 minute breaks in between sections on the MCAT, with the NMAT, you show up at 8am, go thru the 1st part of the test (200?s) in 3.5 hours straight, 1hr break for lunch, then another 3hrs (~175?s).
I took the MCAT in August of 1999 and took a Kaplan review course. I then sent in the paperwork to take the NMAT in October of 1999. I took a 3 wk break after the MCAT and kept at the reviewbooks and took the NMAT. I ended up getting a 30 on the MCAT and placing in the 99th percentile on the NMAT.
Good luck and call ASAP,
Raf
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Hi steph,
I'm a graduate of the University of Santo Tomas in Manila, and an incoming PGY-1 (provided I match this year!). I'll have to say my alma mater is an excellent choice and in doing so, I extend my congratulations to Rafaelc378.
UST was established as a pontifical university in the early 1700's making it the oldest university of european roots in the FarEast. It's Faculty of Medicine & Surgery was founded in the 1800's and among its graduates is the Philippine patriot Dr. Jose Rizal. It has a rich history and the quality of education is unquestionable. My freshman class was 400+ students. Less than 300 of that class made it to my graduation year. Whereas other "diploma mills" will accept her drop-outs, she accepts no medical school drop-out. Her teaching staff includes physicians trained in the US, the UK, Germany and Japan. All program directors I've interviewed with are familiar with her name and reputation.
If you've decided to earn your MD in the Philippines, you cannot go wrong with the University of Santo Tomas Faculty of Medicine & Surgery.
Best of luck!
I'm a graduate of the University of Santo Tomas in Manila, and an incoming PGY-1 (provided I match this year!). I'll have to say my alma mater is an excellent choice and in doing so, I extend my congratulations to Rafaelc378.
UST was established as a pontifical university in the early 1700's making it the oldest university of european roots in the FarEast. It's Faculty of Medicine & Surgery was founded in the 1800's and among its graduates is the Philippine patriot Dr. Jose Rizal. It has a rich history and the quality of education is unquestionable. My freshman class was 400+ students. Less than 300 of that class made it to my graduation year. Whereas other "diploma mills" will accept her drop-outs, she accepts no medical school drop-out. Her teaching staff includes physicians trained in the US, the UK, Germany and Japan. All program directors I've interviewed with are familiar with her name and reputation.
If you've decided to earn your MD in the Philippines, you cannot go wrong with the University of Santo Tomas Faculty of Medicine & Surgery.
Best of luck!
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steph...Don't worry about the NMAT test, its easy... just like an IQ test with some of the stuff you learned in basic college math and science. what's more important is what rafaelc378 was telling you, the documents and papers you need.
Rafaelc378... how's MS1 so far? how'd ya like the PBL system? we have the same school but I'm MS2, the last batch of the traditional style.
Doc Hypersomniac... Hail, UST! You're an inspiration... I'm planning to have my residency there, too. What does it take to be there? How long did you wait? they say you'll be bumming around for like more than a year... is that true?
what's more important is what rafaelc378 was telling you, the documents and papers you need.Rafaelc378... how's MS1 so far? how'd ya like the PBL system? we have the same school but I'm MS2, the last batch of the traditional style.
Doc Hypersomniac... Hail, UST! You're an inspiration... I'm planning to have my residency there, too. What does it take to be there? How long did you wait? they say you'll be bumming around for like more than a year... is that true?
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newbie_guy,
That's quite accurate because the matching process will take a little under a year- starting from the time you apply to ERAS to the time you start residency. But it's up to you if you want to and have the cash to just bum it out. Otherwise, you can take up a job, do observership, or take Step 3.
What does it take? A visa will really help because you have to take the CSA at Philly before you get ECFMG certified. If you don't have any visa issues, then it makes it a lot simpler. Just take Step1 and Step 2. Don't take this process for granted and don't skimp like I did. I had the nerve to sit in Step 1 cold turkey while I was an MS2. I passed but my score wasn't competitive. Even though I prepared well and got a much better Step2 score, that miscalculation has made a couple of good programs close its' doors on me.
Also don't take for granted your conversational skills. Of course we read, learn and write essays and English but PD's I've talked with can tell whether you're an applicant who "thinks" in English. Believe me, this will play a significant role in applying to programs that traditionally turned away IMG's ( there are a lot in the primary care field!) One PD even told me that he could tell from my personal statement alone that I was a person who had no trouble communicating in English.
Hope that helps.
That's quite accurate because the matching process will take a little under a year- starting from the time you apply to ERAS to the time you start residency. But it's up to you if you want to and have the cash to just bum it out. Otherwise, you can take up a job, do observership, or take Step 3.
What does it take? A visa will really help because you have to take the CSA at Philly before you get ECFMG certified. If you don't have any visa issues, then it makes it a lot simpler. Just take Step1 and Step 2. Don't take this process for granted and don't skimp like I did. I had the nerve to sit in Step 1 cold turkey while I was an MS2. I passed but my score wasn't competitive. Even though I prepared well and got a much better Step2 score, that miscalculation has made a couple of good programs close its' doors on me.
Also don't take for granted your conversational skills. Of course we read, learn and write essays and English but PD's I've talked with can tell whether you're an applicant who "thinks" in English. Believe me, this will play a significant role in applying to programs that traditionally turned away IMG's ( there are a lot in the primary care field!) One PD even told me that he could tell from my personal statement alone that I was a person who had no trouble communicating in English.
Hope that helps.
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Don't forget about the Toefl(english)exam has to be taken as well. And you don't have to be certified to do the ERAS and NRMP Match for a residency. Great advice about nailing Step I, can't stress enough how important this exam is, go in there well prepared and try to score in the 90s' that way you will have leveled the playing field, you are going up against America's best, so do your best. And when you are ready to apply to hospitals(ERAS) make sure they are IMG friendly or you be wasting a lot of time and money. Good Luck!- Joined
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Newbie,
MS1 is going very well so far. I'm passing everything up to now, knock on wood.
As for how PBL is, I like it. I know quite a few of my classmates had difficulty with it in the beginning. But as for me, I'm in my element. Throughout high school and college, I hated classes that were in the lecture style format, where you're literally spoonfed the material. This new style is like the seminar-style electives that I took at my undergrad school as a junior and senior.
Instead of being "thought to", you are forced to look up the material yourself. Admittedly, it takes tons of self discipline. No one's checking if you're keeping up so you can't slack off. But I like it. You get a better grasp of the material than when you just sit in a lecture.
When I was an undergrad, in two of my upper level bio classes that were seminar style, you had to do all the background reading, do your field work and then give some presentations and lectures yourself to the rest of the class. I learned that in preparing for a lecture, the lecturer is the one doing all the real work because in order to teach something, you really need to know the topic inside and out. In effect, in the Small Group Discussions, that's what you're doing. So I'm fortunate in having experienced this type of learning style before.
My bio prof from those classes put it best when he told us that he'd teach us as much as he can, but it was up to us whether or not we would learn anything.
-Raf
MS1 is going very well so far. I'm passing everything up to now, knock on wood.
As for how PBL is, I like it. I know quite a few of my classmates had difficulty with it in the beginning. But as for me, I'm in my element. Throughout high school and college, I hated classes that were in the lecture style format, where you're literally spoonfed the material. This new style is like the seminar-style electives that I took at my undergrad school as a junior and senior.
Instead of being "thought to", you are forced to look up the material yourself. Admittedly, it takes tons of self discipline. No one's checking if you're keeping up so you can't slack off. But I like it. You get a better grasp of the material than when you just sit in a lecture.
When I was an undergrad, in two of my upper level bio classes that were seminar style, you had to do all the background reading, do your field work and then give some presentations and lectures yourself to the rest of the class. I learned that in preparing for a lecture, the lecturer is the one doing all the real work because in order to teach something, you really need to know the topic inside and out. In effect, in the Small Group Discussions, that's what you're doing. So I'm fortunate in having experienced this type of learning style before.
My bio prof from those classes put it best when he told us that he'd teach us as much as he can, but it was up to us whether or not we would learn anything.
-Raf
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Doc Hypersomniac... Thanks, that was great! I didn't realize how important is the visa til you mentioned it. I'll keep that in mind, maybe that something I can hopefully do this summer. Anyways, when did you take your Step 1? I'm wondering coz I already made a decision to take it after graduation. Before, I thought of taking it this summer but some of the people I've talked to said that its better to take it later since I'd still learn more and get a better clinical picture through third year and clerkship. So, I kinda thought that way, and besides, since this is the last full summer that I'll be having (remember after 3rd year, we only have less than a month before clerkship starts) I decided to just visit my Tita in Austria. So, what ya think?
famtiadr... thanks for the toefl reminder! Are you also a graduate from a Philippine school?
Raf... I'm glad you like your curriculum. I see your point, but what I am concerned about is the retention part. I heard you have modules per sem and you're supposed to finish them at a certain time and that's it. I don't know, but in my opinion, in medicine, learning something once is not enough. You have to repeat things again and again for it to be automatic, which is what I think is what our curriculum offers. Although sometimes it already boring, I just realized that's where integration takes place... when you become bored because you know the topic already. And one more thing, I just don't believe that every subject in medicine can be done in an PBL style... physiology, medicine, pharma.. sure, but neuroanatomy, biochem... I think it's a bit difficult to learn it en toto the PBL way. Well, that is only my opinion. :wink:
famtiadr... thanks for the toefl reminder!
Are you also a graduate from a Philippine school?Raf... I'm glad you like your curriculum. I see your point, but what I am concerned about is the retention part. I heard you have modules per sem and you're supposed to finish them at a certain time and that's it. I don't know, but in my opinion, in medicine, learning something once is not enough. You have to repeat things again and again for it to be automatic, which is what I think is what our curriculum offers. Although sometimes it already boring, I just realized that's where integration takes place... when you become bored because you know the topic already. And one more thing, I just don't believe that every subject in medicine can be done in an PBL style... physiology, medicine, pharma.. sure, but neuroanatomy, biochem... I think it's a bit difficult to learn it en toto the PBL way. Well, that is only my opinion. :wink:
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Newbie_guy:
I took Step 1 the summer after 2nd year. At the time, I thought it was a good idea to sit in to get an idea first hand how the exam was. I had the cash and was under no pressure so I came in without expecting to pass. Let's say I was so naive at the time and thought scores or number of attempts didn't matter as long as your school records show you were a good student.
By clerkship, I got real serious with finding out how to get into residency and that's when I started getting the feedback. Fortunately, I found out before Step 2 so I gave myself a timetable on how to review as much as I could.
If I could do it all over again, I would probably wait until you start clerkship because by that time, you'll gain enough base knowledge to connect all the dots and see the "big picture".
I'm confident you'll pass Step 1 now but if you wait a year more and make it a point to read your books with the enthusiasm I have for Robin Cook's, you'll get more competitive scores. And while I'm urging you to be a good student, don't get too caught up. Just remember, its OK to party hard if you work hard!
Oh, and his screen name is Fatimadr and I do believe he's a Philippine school graduate. I'd presume he's from the fine Fatima College of Medicine, am I right?
I took Step 1 the summer after 2nd year. At the time, I thought it was a good idea to sit in to get an idea first hand how the exam was. I had the cash and was under no pressure so I came in without expecting to pass. Let's say I was so naive at the time and thought scores or number of attempts didn't matter as long as your school records show you were a good student.
By clerkship, I got real serious with finding out how to get into residency and that's when I started getting the feedback. Fortunately, I found out before Step 2 so I gave myself a timetable on how to review as much as I could.
If I could do it all over again, I would probably wait until you start clerkship because by that time, you'll gain enough base knowledge to connect all the dots and see the "big picture".
I'm confident you'll pass Step 1 now but if you wait a year more and make it a point to read your books with the enthusiasm I have for Robin Cook's, you'll get more competitive scores. And while I'm urging you to be a good student, don't get too caught up. Just remember, its OK to party hard if you work hard!
Oh, and his screen name is Fatimadr and I do believe he's a Philippine school graduate. I'd presume he's from the fine Fatima College of Medicine, am I right?
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Newbie_guy:You are getting some great advice on this thread. Yes, I graduated from Fatima in Oct.2001(I dragged it out a bit, since there was someone special I wanted to graduate with). Fatima was a wonderful experience for me and the Philippine people are some of the best on the face of the earth. I really miss them. I do think you should take Step I after the 2 year period as the Basic Science information should be fresh in your mind,otherwise later you will have tons of reviewing to do. I can't impress upon you enough the importance of scoring high on this exam, don't go in there thinking I just want to pass this thing, you need to nail it big time. A decent score will make you competitive with the AMGs if you want to do a residency in the US. And I concur with Dr Hypersomniac in regards to the Visa,that is only going to slow you down and limit your program choices. Deal with it now.
Dr. Hypersomniac: Yes, as I indicated earlier and on your "other" web site, I graduated from Fatima. And you're right it's a fine school, MS1 class is up to 600 this year, that school is really growing big time, eventually it will have higher entrance restrictions and doubt if they will continue to accept transfer students. What really give me a lot of confidence is when I could compete with the American students in my rotations. Was a very fulfilling experience and I was pleasantly surprised. The downside was those long, long trips home,missing my family and now leaving someone I think very highly of back in the P. Oh well, the match should change that. I've got a lot riding on this. How about you?
Dr. Hypersomniac: Yes, as I indicated earlier and on your "other" web site, I graduated from Fatima. And you're right it's a fine school, MS1 class is up to 600 this year, that school is really growing big time, eventually it will have higher entrance restrictions and doubt if they will continue to accept transfer students. What really give me a lot of confidence is when I could compete with the American students in my rotations. Was a very fulfilling experience and I was pleasantly surprised. The downside was those long, long trips home,missing my family and now leaving someone I think very highly of back in the P. Oh well, the match should change that. I've got a lot riding on this. How about you?
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fatimadr,
Having a lot riding on this is putting it mildly.
The quality of life I may provide my family rides on this! But at this stage, I can still say I'm lucky because I still managed to pull through with a couple of "good" interviews. For me, being able to match to a state near CA will answer my prayers. We've been to the east coast and I've visited family and friends in the MidWest and we just don't thrive in those areas. Yes, I am with wife and child and I can only do this if I know they'll be okay.
Man, you won't believe what I've been through to get this far but if it all works out, it'll be more than worth it.
Good luck to you, Doctor ! May the Match be kind to us all.
Having a lot riding on this is putting it mildly.
The quality of life I may provide my family rides on this! But at this stage, I can still say I'm lucky because I still managed to pull through with a couple of "good" interviews. For me, being able to match to a state near CA will answer my prayers. We've been to the east coast and I've visited family and friends in the MidWest and we just don't thrive in those areas. Yes, I am with wife and child and I can only do this if I know they'll be okay.
Man, you won't believe what I've been through to get this far but if it all works out, it'll be more than worth it.
Good luck to you, Doctor ! May the Match be kind to us all.
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Hi hypersomniac, i'm MS2 at UERM. I noticed that you're from California and I was wondering how you plan to work around the 72 hours of clinical rotations that they require over there. I plan to apply there also but I think that may mean my having to complete internship(or at least 3-4 months of it) over here in order to fulfil their requirements.
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jue,
I'm not planning to work around it. That's why I mentioned in my previous post that I'll be thankful if I get into any of the states close to CA. The hassles of the CA letter and tight competition with programs here was enough to convince me that it could end up being a waste of time.
If you do intend to do residency in CA, I'd suggest to do internship here instead of in the RP to fulfill the clinical rotation requirement. That way, you work for the requirement and for a nice LOR from a US program director at the same time.
But if you wish to choose my route, get a residency anywhere in the US you feel you're comfortable with (e.g. proximity to relatives/friends, job availability for spouse) and apply for a CA license towards the end of residency. You'll still get what you want in probably a shorter period of time. It may not be easy to get a job then but that's how it is with both in-state and out-of-state job seekers. Besides, does it matter if there's no place like home?
I'm not planning to work around it. That's why I mentioned in my previous post that I'll be thankful if I get into any of the states close to CA. The hassles of the CA letter and tight competition with programs here was enough to convince me that it could end up being a waste of time.
If you do intend to do residency in CA, I'd suggest to do internship here instead of in the RP to fulfill the clinical rotation requirement. That way, you work for the requirement and for a nice LOR from a US program director at the same time.
But if you wish to choose my route, get a residency anywhere in the US you feel you're comfortable with (e.g. proximity to relatives/friends, job availability for spouse) and apply for a CA license towards the end of residency. You'll still get what you want in probably a shorter period of time. It may not be easy to get a job then but that's how it is with both in-state and out-of-state job seekers. Besides, does it matter if there's no place like home?
