Anyone actually live paycheck to paycheck here (as an attending)?

[wamcp]

What I mean is less than a few percent of your after tax/after deductions pay goes towards savings or investments. Everything else is immediately spent.

I am genuinely curious what you are spending on. Is it a 10K/month home ownership cost? Private school tuition for multiple kids? Lavish 100k vacations? Supercars?

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[bravotwozero]

Oh thank heavens no. Saw a LOT of those days in residency until I began moonlighting, and kissed them goodbye. I keep an emergency fund to last me a year, which helps with cash flow, and if I miscalculate on my taxes and end up owing the IRS.

 

[FutureInternist]

If one is, then that is a complete waste of what took years & a lot of hard work to accomplish.

Hard pressed to find anything that is as stable and “well” paying as this.

Use it to set yourself (or kids) up for later.

I always tell new graduates that other than family & friends, you shouldn’t have anything that you’d be afraid to lose (specially in 1st 3-5 years as an attending).
Thats the time to go balls to the wall on those loans & then you have 30-35 years of coasting

 

[Splenda88]

What I mean is less than a few percent of your after tax/after deductions pay goes towards savings or investments. Everything else is immediately spent.

I am genuinely curious what you are spending on. Is it a 10K/month home ownership cost? Private school tuition for multiple kids? Lavish 100k vacations? Supercars?

Damn! 10k/month home ownership cost! >3k/month home ownership cost would make me nervous.

Buy your home in an ok-to-good school district so you won't have to spend 20k/yr on school tuition for kids.

I have 3 months of emergency fund and anything extra goes into investment.

I am living on 5k/month (not including student loan repayment) so I can be in a position to be FI in 5 yrs.

 

[LADoc00]

I know a plastic surgeon who is literally perma broke, a mid career CT surgeon who makes 7 figures yet has no 401K or retirement savings vehicle, I know ortho folks who got divorced and will never be able to retire now.

Highlight:
I know of a very famous joint surgeon who literally has an institute named after him who got a divorce, hooked up with a 20 year old Thai woman and was publicly and unceremoniously evicted from a trailer park...after having career earnings of 25+ million he is broke.

And that is private practice, tip of the spear in terms of wage earners.

I dated attendings at the most revered academic institutions that borrowed money from me...when I was a resident! They were absolutely paycheck to paycheck. In fact I think they dated me only because I was definitely bound for more lucrative private practice when I was a fellow and then junior attending.

So yes, absolutely there are attendings living paycheck to paycheck kids.

 

[AD04]

I know a plastic surgeon who is literally perma broke, a mid career CT surgeon who makes 7 figures yet has no 401K or retirement savings vehicle, I know ortho folks who got divorced and will never be able to retire now.

Highlight:
I know of a very famous joint surgeon who literally has an institute named after him who got a divorce, hooked up with a 20 year old Thai woman and was publicly and unceremoniously evicted from a trailer park...after having career earnings of 25+ million he is broke.

And that is private practice, tip of the spear in terms of wage earners.

I dated attendings at the most revered academic institutions that borrowed money from me...when I was a resident! They were absolutely paycheck to paycheck. In fact I think they dated me only because I was definitely bound for more lucrative private practice when I was a fellow and then junior attending.

So yes, absolutely there are attendings living paycheck to paycheck kids.

How many of these high earners are broke because of divorces and kids?

If it flies, floats, or fornicate, always rent it -- it’s cheaper in the long run.
- Felix Dennis

 

[Chief's Pineapple]

How many of these high earners are broke because of divorces and kids?

If it flies, floats, or fornicate, always rent it -- it’s cheaper in the long run.
- Felix Dennis

You know what the number one cause of getting divorced is, right? Getting married. You can't get divorced if you don't get married.

#modernproblemsrequiremodernsolutions #foreveralone

 

[NITRAS]

People can always spend more money than they make. Doesn’t require a divorce to be broke. I know plenty of docs that live on the edge, spend huge amounts of money and wonder why they have to work so hard just to ”make ends meet”.

 

[LADoc00]

Divorce is huge but not the only landmine. Mental health issues, substance abuse etc. are also out there.

But generally divorce is the big one. Divorce is the single largest destroyer of wealth in the United States.

 

[James Murfy]

I personally am spending a lot of money on my education and treatment right now. I have scoliosis so I have to see a doctor, which is expensive. Also I buy English courses, as it is not my native language, soon I will buy German courses. Also after returning from a tour of my guitar teacher, I will also have to pay him money for lessons, and you know, it all takes a lot of money. But then when I learn and heal I'll just reap the benefits and I won't spend so much naturally.

 

[Boxer1]

Being smart/talented in one area of life (medicine) doesn't always translate to other areas of life. I know people who are brilliant in one area but a mess in other areas. Being disciplined with saving and growing wealth is not an automatic and requires intentionality. Lots of docs have little to show for their high incomes.

 

[InvestingDoc]

I was for the first year of Attending but beyond that no. That was secondary to me paying off my student loans in one year.
I have multiple friends who are hospitalist who are living paycheck to paycheck and work in my clinic PRN to make extra cash sometimes to pay some extra bills.

 

[smq123]

What I mean is less than a few percent of your after tax/after deductions pay goes towards savings or investments. Everything else is immediately spent.

I am genuinely curious what you are spending on. Is it a 10K/month home ownership cost? Private school tuition for multiple kids? Lavish 100k vacations? Supercars?

Anyone wondering how physicians can go broke, or anyone that doesn't believe how spectacularly bad physicians can be with money, should read this divorce brief: https://www.courts.wa.gov/content/petitions/90043-4 COA Respondents Brief.pdf. Especially page 14.

 

[nimbus]

Anyone wondering how physicians can go broke, or anyone that doesn't believe how spectacularly bad physicians can be with money, should read this divorce brief: https://www.courts.wa.gov/content/petitions/90043-4 COA Respondents Brief.pdf. Especially page 14.

It’s hard to keep up with the Allens.

 

[sloh]

I was for the first year of Attending but beyond that no. That was secondary to me paying off my student loans in one year.
I have multiple friends who are hospitalist who are living paycheck to paycheck and work in my clinic PRN to make extra cash sometimes to pay some extra bills.

How many years into practice are they? Out of sight out of mind?

 

[deleted1153764]

Anyone wondering how physicians can go broke, or anyone that doesn't believe how spectacularly bad physicians can be with money, should read this divorce brief: https://www.courts.wa.gov/content/petitions/90043-4 COA Respondents Brief.pdf. Especially page 14.

This case is worse then it looks. He had a gold digger wife that wouldn't move to Alaska with him. He eventually cheated on her due to her never being around and she divorced him.

However, when they "split the assets", he seemed to get the properties that were financed which counted as "assets".

For instance, he bought a 4.3M "Borders" store that was totally financed (100% liability not asset) when he divorced (the money came from a friend and a bank).

So the 7 something million he got was mostly debt while she got all the real assets. So he basically got nothing in terms of assets. His "future" income was used to justify this because he would "be able to pay off all the debts" in the future.

"Ms. Wright's expert, Kevin Grambush, testified that ANA's net tangible assets were worth $1.105 million, and valued Dr. Wright's goodwill at $7.295 million. (RP 71)"

So they also valued his "goodwill" in terms of him working for another number of years as his "assets" and even his practice that he "could never sell" which is basically worthless but valued against him in the divorce.

Crazy stuff.

 

[thesauce]

“At considerable length, Dr. Wright expresses his resentment that he worked hard to support a family whom he perceived to be "afflicted with 'excessive consumption.'" He described himself as a "mule" "pulling the plow and the party wagon," while the family enjoyed vacations provided by wealthy friends.”

 

[abolt18]

“At considerable length, Dr. Wright expresses his resentment that he worked hard to support a family whom he perceived to be "afflicted with 'excessive consumption.'" He described himself as a "mule" "pulling the plow and the party wagon," while the family enjoyed vacations provided by wealthy friends.”

Homie needs to take accountability for his own poor management of his life and schedule.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

It's not that hard to do. I think a large percentage of doctors do this or something similar to it (sub 5% savings rate) for large chunks of their careers. How else do we get statistics like 11-12% of doctors in their 60s have a net worth < $500K and 25% are not millionaires?