Any regrets choosing Path?

[twentyfour]

Just wondering how you all are liking/not liking Path?

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[b&ierstiefel]

Just wondering how you all are liking/not liking Path?

Working hard and still enjoying path. Sure, like any other field or line of work, there are things I like to do and things I dislike (e.g., mashing for tiny ass lymph nodes in a 100 cm segment of resected pooptube). As I expected, clinical service work does not inspire me as much as basic science research but pathology was the best field for me.

 

[frogs]

I enjoy pathology very much! The experience is great fun and challenging!

On the otherhand, I am not impressed by the program. The feel is snootie and my colleagues are highly competitive, none of which was anticipated from the interview. There were changes in the curriculum, perks and faculty appointments.

Aside from that... things are peachy

 

[mcfaddens]

I enjoy pathology very much! The experience is great fun and challenging!

On the otherhand, I am not impressed by the program. The feel is snootie and my colleagues are highly competitive, none of which was anticipated from the interview. There were changes in the curriculum, perks and faculty appointments.

Aside from that... things are peachy

What specificaly do you not like about your program? What should someone be more aware about during interviews in your opinion?

 

[QuietSylph]

Just wondering how you all are liking/not liking Path?

I am very happy to have chosen pathology and feel certain that it was the right choice for me. My program (University of New Mexico) is well-rounded and offers diverse specimens/experiences without being malignant. It's a good fit and consistent with what I expected from the interview.

 

[yaah]

I enjoy pathology very much! The experience is great fun and challenging!

On the otherhand, I am not impressed by the program. The feel is snootie and my colleagues are highly competitive, none of which was anticipated from the interview. There were changes in the curriculum, perks and faculty appointments.

Aside from that... things are peachy

Sometimes that happens. It is hard to pick residents who are not snooty and competitive. After all, to get into med school these days you have to sell yourself out a bit. That is unfortunate about all the changes though - did you ask about these at your interview? I doubt you have much recourse though. Sometimes lots of changes mean lots of new opportunities as well.

 

[fedor]

After all, to get into med school these days you have to sell yourself out a bit.

I agree. I look at the question "What motivates you to become a doctor?" as what it is, an invitation to be lied to.

 

[deschutes]

I agree. I look at the question "What motivates you to become a doctor?" as what it is, an invitation to be lied to.

It is. I said quite frankly at my med school interview that I felt this was something that I was, while not yet knowing everything about the field, able to do with my worklife.

I was asked if I had any relatives diagnosed with cancer etc. who had inspired me to this, and I steadfastly denied all of it.

 

[yaah]

WTF why does everyone have to have an inspiration for wanting to be a doctor? I always said, "Well, I love science and medicine is a perfect balance between science and working with people." I was wrong, but that's what I thought at the time!

 

[stormjen]

I am still happy I chose Pathology. The thing about Path though is that it is such a broad field, there are a few areas within it that I could really do without. But they are things I have to deal with (hopefully) exclusively during residency and can (hopefully) leave behind when I go off to practice.

 

[cytoborg]

Loving it! Every day I am learning cool stuff, making an important contribution to patient care but without all the BS. I'd still prefer 40 hrs a week rather than the 60-70 I'm working now, but compared to pretty much any other field in medicine, I really can't complain.

 

[twentyfour]

Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate people being so open.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

If I went into work today, I would be just over 80 hours. But I'm taking the day off today so that's not gonna happen. But I think the fact that I get to sleep in my own bed every night is so key.

 

[frogs]

What specificaly do you not like about your program? What should someone be more aware about during interviews in your opinion?

The program has a lot of potential, but it seems to be more concerned with appearances for ACGME regualtion than working out the glitches of the learning experience. The recent changes in curriculum are not conducive to active learning, but is geared toward passive learning by doing a lot of, what feels like, scut work. Definitely talk to a first year resident, and not necessarily the one that they readily introduce you to as that person is likely to be their "golden resident" and may be misleading! Be aware of facial expressions and pauses when you ask pertinent questions like work hours, getting along with and support of faculty, how they like the residency, etc

Given the chance to do it again, I would have been more cognicent of how the interview day was presented. Even though I am AP/CP, I interviewed with mostly CP faculty who generally tend to be a little happier/outgoing than the AP faculty. So their description and knowledge of the AP side was quite glorified compared to what I have experienced first hand.

Also, at my interview, I should have recognized that the residents talked a lot about themselves and how great they are as med students, USMLE scores, as residents, etc. At the time, I thought it was a "getting to know you" becoming acquaintances sort of thing, but now that we are colleagues, the "I'm great and superior" attitude has yet to cease.

Of course, all of this is in hindsight for me, I'm not even sure how recognizing these things earlier would have changed things. But I hope it sure helps someone else!!

Good luck!

 

[mcfaddens]

The program has a lot of potential, but it seems to be more concerned with appearances for ACGME regualtion than working out the glitches of the learning experience. The recent changes in curriculum are not conducive to active learning, but is geared toward passive learning by doing a lot of, what feels like, scut work. Definitely talk to a first year resident, and not necessarily the one that they readily introduce you to as that person is likely to be their "golden resident" and may be misleading! Be aware of facial expressions and pauses when you ask pertinent questions like work hours, getting along with and support of faculty, how they like the residency, etc

Given the chance to do it again, I would have been more cognicent of how the interview day was presented. Even though I am AP/CP, I interviewed with mostly CP faculty who generally tend to be a little happier/outgoing than the AP faculty. So their description and knowledge of the AP side was quite glorified compared to what I have experienced first hand.

Also, at my interview, I should have recognized that the residents talked a lot about themselves and how great they are as med students, USMLE scores, as residents, etc. At the time, I thought it was a "getting to know you" becoming acquaintances sort of thing, but now that we are colleagues, the "I'm great and superior" attitude has yet to cease.

Of course, all of this is in hindsight for me, I'm not even sure how recognizing these things earlier would have changed things. But I hope it sure helps someone else!!

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely have my eyes a little more open now. I am sorry to hear that you are unhappy with your program, have you considered transferring? Well I hope it gets better take care

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Definitely talk to a first year resident, and not necessarily the one that they readily introduce you to as that person is likely to be their "golden resident" and may be misleading! Be aware of facial expressions and pauses when you ask pertinent questions like work hours, getting along with and support of faculty, how they like the residency, etc

This advice is huge. There were only a few programs where I had lunch (which was the main opportunity to meet the residents) with a first-year resident. Most lunches involved meeting upper level residents and fellows. I've said this before, if you can pull this off at the end of the interview day, ask to go to the residents room and directly talk to as many residents at once. This is where you will see the residents who are happy and are unhappy. Most unhappy residents will not be really open on it but will come across as reserved and not as enthusiastic in offering cheery comments.

Also, at my interview, I should have recognized that the residents talked a lot about themselves and how great they are as med students, USMLE scores, as residents, etc. At the time, I thought it was a "getting to know you" becoming acquaintances sort of thing, but now that we are colleagues, the "I'm great and superior" attitude has yet to cease.

Man, that sucks ass. Is this attitude pervasive amongst all the residents? Or just a particular class? One thing about the Match is that a program never knows who they're gonna get...and you don't know what kind of classmates you'll be working with. Your class may be totally cool and laid back or your class may suck ass and full of arrogant gunners with the "I'm the **** and everyone should suck my dick" attitude.

Of course, all of this is in hindsight for me, I'm not even sure how recognizing these things earlier would have changed things. But I hope it sure helps someone else!!

And that's the thing. You're not gonna pick up on many things during a one day interview visit (unless you're really a very observant sleuth). You kinda find out about many things when it's too late and you've already been in the program for a few weeks.

 

[yaah]

Yeah, I think at times people are afraid to ask tough questions at interviews. They think that people are going to look down on them or rank them lower because they asked about work hours and scut. Just be yourself. Ask questions that are important to you. If you match at a place where you performed well at your interview and they liked you because you pretended to be something you are not, you may be unhappy in residency.

 

[pathstudent]

No regrets.

But I am a little envious of the surgeons when I go to the OR to talk with them about a frozen or a complex specimen. The OR is an exciting place. I think we are missing out on some of the rewards of being on the frontlines. It has to be cool to take out someone's heart and put a new one in.

Secondly, it is a little frustrating that no one knows what pathologists do. My pediatrician/medicine/OB friends will ask "so, do you work in a lab all day" or "why would you be wearing scrubs".

 

[A.D.O.R.]

No regrets.

But I am a little envious of the surgeons when I go to the OR to talk with them about a frozen or a complex specimen. The OR is an exciting place. I think we are missing out on some of the rewards of being on the frontlines. It has to be cool to take out someone's heart and put a new one in.

Secondly, it is a little frustrating that no one knows what pathologists do. My pediatrician/medicine/OB friends will ask "so, do you work in a lab all day" or "why would you be wearing scrubs".

If you're an AP resident you can tell them you cut up dead bodies and body parts. Morbid but far from mundane. The only question that irks me is "Why do pathologists need pagers?" I usually tell them "It's not for path. Drug dealing ain't easy."

 

[deschutes]

This reminds me - are any of you at programs where clinical medicine residents do rotations in path?

When I was in med school (Calgary), we had a whole horde of "rotating residents". In my stint in the AP department I met residents from Gen Surg, neurosurg, Ob/Gyn, radiology, rad-onc and - shock horror - even some Medicine fellows (e.g. GI).

Sure cut down on a lot of stupid "Dead bodies all day?" remarks. Go dig for your own lymph nodes!

 

[DropkickMurphy]

The only question that irks me is "Why do pathologists need pagers?" I usually tell them "It's not for path. Drug dealing ain't easy."

 

[yaah]

This reminds me - are any of you at programs where clinical medicine residents do rotations in path?

When I was in med school (Calgary), we had a whole horde of "rotating residents". In my stint in the AP department I met residents from Gen Surg, neurosurg, Ob/Gyn, radiology, rad-onc and - shock horror - even some Medicine fellows (e.g. GI).

Sure cut down on a lot of stupid "Dead bodies all day?" remarks. Go dig for your own lymph nodes!

Sometimes they show up in the blood bank or on coag. And some of the ID residents will spend time in Micro. But it really isn't that intense. I know in med school the occasional medicine resident would do a path rotation as an elective. Here, we don't see any of them except when they descend in hordes to see a biopsy on something interesting like AFB or Wegeners.

 

[A.D.O.R.]

This reminds me - are any of you at programs where clinical medicine residents do rotations in path?

I know neurology residents are required to take a month of neuropathology but I have not seen or heard of other departments with this requirement. I know many medical students interested in surgery do a month-long path rotation here. I don't know if it's the new "thing" to have on your transcript for surgery programs or what but I don't think it gives them (or rotating medical students in general) a true sense of what pathologists do.

 

[Aubrey]

I know neurology residents are required to take a month of neuropathology but I have not seen or heard of other departments with this requirement. I know many medical students interested in surgery do a month-long path rotation here. I don't know if it's the new "thing" to have on your transcript for surgery programs or what but I don't think it gives them (or rotating medical students in general) a true sense of what pathologists do.

At UVA the neurosurgery residents rotate through neuropath.

 

[deschutes]

I don't know if it's the new "thing" to have on your transcript for surgery programs or what but I don't think it gives them (or rotating medical students in general) a true sense of what pathologists do.

Why do you say that?

 

[Mrbojangles]

I think surgeons would really benefit from a path rotation... or at least it will indirectly benefit us. They'll know not to open up specimens and understand which situations are appropriate to ask for a frozen consultation. And as mentioned before maybe they should be required to look for lymph nodes in a colectomy or mastectomy specimen at least once during their rotation.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

And as mentioned before maybe they should be required to look for lymph nodes in a colectomy or mastectomy specimen at least once during their rotation.

You know, if a surgeon really had a vendetta against a certain resident, they could schedule all their colectomies on a single day when that said resident would be receiving the specimens.

If surgeons had to go through a lymph node/fat mashing exercise on a hunk of ass, then they would know how much of a pain in the ass it really is...then they would be in the prime position to f*ck us in the ass.

Let's not let the secret out.

 

[mcfaddens]

Benefit my A$$, you know they would just sit there and nod their heads and go "Uh huh" at the scope and do a half a$$ grossing job because they dont care. They know we are not gonna rip them a new one because people in path are in general nice to those in other fields.

 

[Pingu]

If surgeons actually realized that pathology allows you to have a normal life while mutilating tissue they would all jump ship to path. Path is way too much fun to share with lame surgeons.

 

[A.D.O.R.]

Why do you say that?

As a post-sophomore fellow who sees/experiences the resident side of path and observes the daily activities of the rotating medical students, I can say that the glimpse they get during their month is inadequate. For one, they have scheduled "tutorial" sessions with attendings and spend a week grossing with the gross room supervisor and a week on autopsy where they are led through one autopsy by an attending or resident. Granted, I have only recently become autonomous but doing surg path for a month where you start at 9a or 10a and end at 7p, preview the next night, sign-out and then go back to the bucket and order stains for an entire month is completely different. Doing one autopsy report is cool but doing several in one month gives you a sense of the workload. Anyway, one month is just not enough to get a true sense of what pathologists do or how a program truly operates. I think you need to do at least two back-to-back months of surg (feel the burn baby) followed by one month of autopsy. Crazy and it'll never happen but that's how I feel.

By the way, I do want to say that, from what I have been told by visiting medical students, the path rotation at UCSF is far more hands on than it is at many other programs. No negative feelings about this particular program just some of my observations.

 

[deschutes]

I can see where you are coming from, and I am not disagreeing with you

The thing is, is there really a "true sense of pathology"? Pathology is vast - for instance, what a clinical pathologist does is so different from what an anatomical pathologist does on a day-to-day basis. I sometimes feel that 4 years is hardly enough to get a real sense of how a program operates!

I would argue that any exposure, is better than none at all.

Compared to a PSF, I didn't get to "do" as much on my pathology electives, but I learnt enough that I knew this was going to be a career versatile enough to occupy me quite happily for the rest of my work life.

Once in pathology we are in to learn the same things, it becomes a matter of time (and perhaps enthusiasm and dedication - some people never get the "true sense of pathology", no matter how much time they spend in it).

 

[A.D.O.R.]

The thing is, is there really a "true sense of pathology"?

I think pathology attendings have a "true sense of pathology." They know what the pathologist's lifestyle is like and they remember their residency training.

Pathology is vast - for instance, what a clinical pathologist does is so different from what an anatomical pathologist does on a day-to-day basis.

I think most folks do a pathology rotation (during fourth year) in AP. I don't know how the CP side deals with its residents or medical students who do an elective.

I sometimes feel that 4 years is hardly enough to get a real sense of how a program operates!

Ummm...I think this depends on how inquisitive and observant you are. I feel I have a decent sense of this program but then again I talk to everyone from the top down about how things operate.

I would argue that any exposure, is better than none at all.

I agree.

Compared to a PSF, I didn't get to "do" as much on my pathology electives, but I learnt enough that I knew this was going to be a career versatile enough to occupy me quite happily for the rest of my work life.

Great. I'm sure you're an asset to your program. I'm being serious. No sarcasm here.

Once in pathology we are in to learn the same things, it becomes a matter of time (and perhaps enthusiasm and dedication - some people never get the "true sense of pathology", no matter how much time they spend in it).[/

Once again, I agree.


I think my post was adressing an implicit statement that surgeons and would-be surgeons would have a better appreciation for pathologists (AP obviously) and their jobs if they did an elective in pathology. I was simply saying that more exposure is needed for any appreciable change in perception for this group. In addition, I was saying medical students who are interested in pathology really need more exposure. By the way, I also think the amount of time people spend on their core rotatations is not enough. Think about it, you spend eight weeks on a service and then decide this is what you will do for the rest of your career? Whoa. I'm not surprised a lot of people retrain.

 

[deschutes]

Well A.D.O.R., I think we're just saying the same thing different ways