Any people in my situation? Single woman, 20's, no kids, but wants them?

[MissIntrigued]

Alright, I would love to know f ANYONE is in a smiliar situation to myself?

I see people that were already married when they started medical school, or already married AND had kids, but I have as yet to meet someone who started med school around 29-30, which means you're not done with residency till your late 30's, and were single when they started the journey.

A big concern for me, is that yes, I would like a family, a husband, all that good stuff, but it scares me to think, will I be able to be a good mom and handle being pregnant while Im trying to work 80 hours a week as a resident?

Is this even possible? I guess people have done it before, but its so much easier when you already have a spouse to give you support.

I am by no means unattractive. I'm actually quite attractive, a good all around catch, intelligent and funny and easy to be with. A guy once told me that fact that I was both "hot and really smart" was intimidating for men. WTF?

Forgive my apparently gramatically horrific writing but I've been awake for almost two days straight and am going a little delirious.

Am 25 years old, 26 in a month , set to take the MCATS in the spring once i finish pre-reqs in december. My undergad GPA (due to a crappy freshman year GPA) was barely a 3.1

My post bacc science courses, thus car, average out to about a 3.5. Hopefully will not go less than that as I only have one more class to do (organic chem part 2).

I've managed to get A, A, A-, B+, B and a B- in my science courses post bacc thus far, and this is while working full time at a hospital all day from 6 in the morning, then going to school four hours straight, and coming home too exhausted to study. I'd say those are pretty good grades in bio, organic chem, physics and chemistry with an average of studying maybe one day prior to each exam I've ever had.

I consider myself a naturally intelligent person, but this whoe family lifestyle thing scares me.

Am I sacrificing everything for naught?

Reading back on this post, it doesn't even make sense but I'll post it anyway. Maybe I'll get some responses that make more sense than what I've written.

Christ i need to sleep....i shoudl go do that now before i fall asleep in my office like i did today. One of my patients came for a session with me, knocked on my door, i jerked my head up off the desk, said "come in!" and the patient walks in as i sit there smiling with a post-it stuck to my forehead.
Yaaaaaay.

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[teddybear]

You're worrying about too many things at once. Do whatever it is you really want to do. Take everything else a day at a time.

 

[ChairmanMao]

I understand your concern. I can imagine how difficult it must be to go through this process at your age and realize that you're probably not going to get done with training until you're in your mid-30s. It's always difficult to focus on one thing at the exclusion of another. That being said, try not to dwell on the negatives, the average age of medical school matriculants is around 24; if you apply next summer and get in the next year, you'll be 28 - only four years older than the average matriculant. That's well within the range of the typical medical student. Trust me when I say that you will meet many people in your age group while in medical school.

As for the fact that you see many people starting medical school when they're already married or engaged, I wouldn't let that get to you. I know many of my friends got married right out of college at age 22 and 23 and I have no idea how they can be mature enough to want to live together for the rest of their lives. I think that what you're most worried about is not being able to find the emotional support necessary to get through the next ten years by yourself (you want to have a supportive spouse who can help you deal with your life). I'm sure that things will get better once you start medical school. We all know that at some medical schools, half the graduating class become couples by the time they enter residency. I know some of my friends met his future spouse while in medical school and another one during residency. Anytime when you're in contact with a large group of people who are in the same situation, you will find people who like yourself, have similar worries and needs.

As for what your guy friend said, you really shouldn't take his words at face value. Generalizations are not a reflection of reality. Most of your friends are probably in their mid-20s and still stuck in the bachelor mindset. By the time you matriculate or graduate from medical school, you will find that you will be dealing with a much more mature and understanding group of people in your life. As for having children, you have a long time to plan that out. You can take maternity leaves while doing residency or go into a more accommadating specialty. Countless people have done so.

Finally, since you mentioned that you won't be applying for at least a year, why not start a serious relationship now? You live in NYC and have 2 to 3 years to live your life however you want to live. That's something that a lot of traditional applicants won't be able to do until after they complete their residency. Depending on how flexible your post-bac is and how many hours you have to work, it's definitely possible to start a relationship and get hitched before you start med school.

 

[Law2Doc]

Alright, I would love to know f ANYONE is in a smiliar situation to myself?

I see people that were already married when they started medical school, or already married AND had kids, but I have as yet to meet someone who started med school around 29-30, which means you're not done with residency till your late 30's, and were single when they started the journey.

A big concern for me, is that yes, I would like a family, a husband, all that good stuff, but it scares me to think, will I be able to be a good mom and handle being pregnant while Im trying to work 80 hours a week as a resident?

Is this even possible? I guess people have done it before, but its so much easier when you already have a spouse to give you support.

I am by no means unattractive. I'm actually quite attractive, a good all around catch, intelligent and funny and easy to be with. A guy once told me that fact that I was both "hot and really smart" was intimidating for men. WTF?

Forgive my apparently gramatically horrific writing but I've been awake for almost two days straight and am going a little delirious.

Am 25 years old, 26 in a month , set to take the MCATS in the spring once i finish pre-reqs in december. My undergad GPA (due to a crappy freshman year GPA) was barely a 3.1

My post bacc science courses, thus car, average out to about a 3.5. Hopefully will not go less than that as I only have one more class to do (organic chem part 2).

I've managed to get A, A, A-, B+, B and a B- in my science courses post bacc thus far, and this is while working full time at a hospital all day from 6 in the morning, then going to school four hours straight, and coming home too exhausted to study. I'd say those are pretty good grades in bio, organic chem, physics and chemistry with an average of studying maybe one day prior to each exam I've ever had.

I consider myself a naturally intelligent person, but this whoe family lifestyle thing scares me.

Am I sacrificing everything for naught?

Reading back on this post, it doesn't even make sense but I'll post it anyway. Maybe I'll get some responses that make more sense than what I've written.

Christ i need to sleep....i shoudl go do that now before i fall asleep in my office like i did today. One of my patients came for a session with me, knocked on my door, i jerked my head up off the desk, said "come in!" and the patient walks in as i sit there smiling with a post-it stuck to my forehead.
Yaaaaaay.

Check out some of the books by Perri Klass who, if I'm recalling correctly, writes about her experiences at Harvard Med and residency while pregnant and as mother of a newborn.

Having kids during med school will be more realistic if you have a spouse or family to help provide childcare.

As for being a "good catch", that isn't something you get to decide -- it's in the eye of the beholder. Gals who think guys are intimidated by them because they are smart are often victims of deflection -- you are trying to explain a negative situation with a positive spin. This is perhaps good technique for personal statements and interviews, but shouldn't extend to your social life. Few guys will be intimidated by smarts; This is even less so if you hang out with smart people. So I'd probably look for another explanation.

 

[Empi]

I think you need to calm down and take one day at a time.


Things have a funny way of working themselves out and I do believe there is no real random in this life.

Live your life fully, be the best you and you will become a "good catch," without even really trying.

 

[teddybear]

I think you need to calm down and take one day at a time.


Things have a funny way of working themselves out and I do believe there is no real random in this life.

Live your life fully, be the best you and you will become a "good catch," without even really trying.

Great advice!

 

[Lacheln]

I hear where you're coming from - I'm 30, broke up with my fiance last summer (who I'd been with for 5 years), and at first I was really anxious about what that meant for family life - will I have time to date in med school, etc etc...but I pretty much follow Empi's philosophy. Things work themselves out for the best, they really do. Relationships are one area where you have to put effort in, yes, but at the end of the day you can't force anything to happen.

Re: Chairman Mao's comment about "go meet someone, you have plenty of time..." uh, well, sometimes it takes a while to meet the right person. But I digress... So, even though med school throws some curveballs in there, I'm still sure I'll meet the right person, and we will make the family thing work. Relax, focus on the present, and you'll be fine.

As for the smart women thing - any guy that is intimidated isn't the right guy for you. There are plenty of guys out there who appreciate it, fo' sho'.

It's true there are plenty of guys who are intimidated by a smart woman too, though - when I meet a guy in a bar, somewhere where the attraction tends to be superficial, and the conversation winds its way around to what do you do, and where did you go to college...I get two responses at that point, probably 75% of the time.

1. Oh, so what, you're like a genius?
or
2. You don't seem like someone who went to [my undergrad].

Hmm. Thanks. Conversation time of death = now.

 

[Trismegistus4]

A big concern for me, is that yes, I would like a family, a husband, all that good stuff, but it scares me to think, will I be able to be a good mom and handle being pregnant while Im trying to work 80 hours a week as a resident?

Of course not.

If marriage and children are important to you, why do you want to become a doctor? Wouldn't it be better to be a housewife?

If you're having trouble finding a man, I'd say your chief problems are having professional aspirations and living in New York City. Move to the South or Midwest and start attending a conservative church. You'll be married in no time.

In fact, if you're willing to move to my area, I'll consider marrying you. We'd have to meet a few times first, of course.

 

[alpha62]

I hope all you single men out there with a good income are reading this thread.

If this ticking bio clock doesn't scare the daylights out of you, nothing will.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER !

 

[QofQuimica]

I hope all you single men out there with a good income are reading this thread.

If this ticking bio clock doesn't scare the daylights out of you, nothing will.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER !

This was my first thought too.

OP, I know you said you were just tired and delirious. But if I may offer you a little advice, chill out. Just go about your business, and don't try to force something to happen that ain't meant to be. If you approach men the way you approached your post, of course they will run like hell. I'm not even a guy, and that post scared the bejeebers out of me!

 

[sawood]

Hmmmm. I'll be almost 31 when I start med school this summer, no kids, no husband, and I'm okay with that. If somewhere down the road I get married, great. If not, great. Happiness and fulfillment can be through many different paths.

I'm happy right now, excited about med school, and love my boyfriend of three years. The funny thing is that he is someone I would never have dated had I been "looking" for an appropriate husband to father my children, but as it turns out is the most amazing man. Stop looking, just live your life. There are probably amazing opportunities being presented to you right now that you don't see because you are so worried and focused on the future and what you want it to look like. Life never turns out the way we plan, so stop planning.

 

[ChairmanMao]

I hear where you're coming from - I'm 30, broke up with my fiance last summer (who I'd been with for 5 years), and at first I was really anxious about what that meant for family life - will I have time to date in med school, etc etc...but I pretty much follow Empi's philosophy. Things work themselves out for the best, they really do. Relationships are one area where you have to put effort in, yes, but at the end of the day you can't force anything to happen.

Re: Chairman Mao's comment about "go meet someone, you have plenty of time..." uh, well, sometimes it takes a while to meet the right person. But I digress... So, even though med school throws some curveballs in there, I'm still sure I'll meet the right person, and we will make the family thing work. Relax, focus on the present, and you'll be fine.

As for the smart women thing - any guy that is intimidated isn't the right guy for you. There are plenty of guys out there who appreciate it, fo' sho'.

It's true there are plenty of guys who are intimidated by a smart woman too, though - when I meet a guy in a bar, somewhere where the attraction tends to be superficial, and the conversation winds its way around to what do you do, and where did you go to college...I get two responses at that point, probably 75% of the time.

1. Oh, so what, you're like a genius?
or
2. You don't seem like someone who went to [my undergrad].

Hmm. Thanks. Conversation time of death = now.

Yeah but the OP doesn't seem to realize that medical school's a great place to meet a future spouse - even better than undergrad or as a post-bac. You will be in a group of older, more mature individuals who are all going through the same experience as you and can probably better relate to your experiences. Besides that, everyone will be on equal footing, so it's less likely that a guy will avoid you because he feels intimidated or jealous of your intelligence.

 

[Law2Doc]

Yeah but the OP doesn't seem to realize that medical school's a great place to meet a future spouse - even better than undergrad or as a post-bac.

I'm guessing you haven't started med school yet. (both from your comment and the fact that you just joined and your status indicates "premed").
I'd say much better than half of all med students show up attached (married, engaged, LTR), and of the remainder some percentage won't date other med students, and some percentage will be single for a good reason, or have other qualities you aren't seeking out in a mate. If you haven't had an easy time dating in undergrad or postbac, don't think things are going to improve in med school. The pool of availables gets smaller, and your own attractiveness won't improve appreciably with time. I mean, fellow med students are going to be the least impressed with the fact that you are going to be a future doctor (so will they), so you don't even have that to rap about. And in med school you won't have much time to keep up with current events, pop culture, which makes keeping discussions going with non-med prospects a bit harder. And you will be broke. And smell like formalin. If that's not a recipe for being a hermit, I don't know what is.

 

[Sainttpk]

For all the single women out there living in the Seattle area, Im single and done with school haha

 

[alpha62]

This was my first thought too.

OP, I know you said you were just tired and delirious. But if I may offer you a little advice, chill out. Just go about your business, and don't try to force something to happen that ain't meant to be. If you approach men the way you approached your post, of course they will run like hell. I'm not even a guy, and that post scared the bejeebers out of me!

Sleep deprived or the product of a borderline personality with a sprinkle of Type II Bipolar ?

Up all night ? Racing, intrusive thought ? Unlimted ablity to do it all ? Sounds like my next supervising physician. This racket is full of these types. If you build it, they will come.

 

[ChairmanMao]

I'm guessing you haven't started med school yet. (both from your comment and the fact that you just joined and your status indicates "premed").
I'd say much better than half of all med students show up attached (married, engaged, LTR), and of the remainder some percentage won't date other med students, and some percentage will be single for a good reason, or have other qualities you aren't seeking out in a mate. If you haven't had an easy time dating in undergrad or postbac, don't think things are going to improve in med school. The pool of availables gets smaller, and your own attractiveness won't improve appreciably with time. I mean, fellow med students are going to be the least impressed with the fact that you are going to be a future doctor (so will they), so you don't even have that to rap about. And in med school you won't have much time to keep up with current events, pop culture, which makes keeping discussions going with non-med prospects a bit harder. And you will be broke. And smell like formalin. If that's not a recipe for being a hermit, I don't know what is.

What about the nursing students, the physical therapy students, the MPH students who you are likely to come into contact? I don't think you're going to be limited to just medical students. Besides, I was just saying that half-jokingly. Do you think people really go to medical school to find a spouse? Maybe, but I'm hoping that they do it because they want to practice medicine.

 

[student1799]

Never mind this "biological clock" crap anyway. I had my first kid at 33, and my sister just had her first at 46. (Fertility technology is a wonderful thing. BTW, have you ever considered reproductive endocrinology as a specialty? That's a growth market if ever I saw one.)

Live your life, go about your business, and you'll have your kids when you have them. No need to worry.

 

[NonTradMed]

Of course not.

If marriage and children are important to you, why do you want to become a doctor? Wouldn't it be better to be a housewife?

If you're having trouble finding a man, I'd say your chief problems are having professional aspirations and living in New York City. Move to the South or Midwest and start attending a conservative church. You'll be married in no time.

In fact, if you're willing to move to my area, I'll consider marrying you. We'd have to meet a few times first, of course.

Oh god, I'm living in one of the reddest states in the midwest right now and I can tell you that there are plenty of medical student women with professional aspirations AND they got their man. Why do people assume that being in the midwest means we're all stuck in the 1950's?! Some of the girls marry men who will make less than them, and expect the husband to do a substantial amount of housework/childcare, especially during residency. Yes, there are men like that who are also intelligent and not a slacker. My parents both work and my dad cooks most of the meals at our house. They are both biologists. My mom feels sorry for women who have lazy husbands who won't chip in to help with the housework.

We don't go to a 'conservative' church so maybe that's where the good mother=housewife mentality comes from. It certainly doesn't apply to my family, many of my friends, nor many of my parents' friends. All of whom live in the midwest.

To the OP, stop worrying about these things. I am in the exact same state as you. I started med school in my mid-20's and won't finish until 30. I am single and looking. I figure finding a guy as a financial meal ticket is too risky, so why bother putting my own financial security ahead of catching a husband? I am looking for emotional security here, and that is not something I would need to put my career aside for. For women who are looking for financial security through a guy, avoiding med school may be the best option. But for women who want to work, it makes no sense to give up a career to better focus on looking for a guy. We will find a guy when we find one, no matter where we go or what we do. But we won't be doctors unless we go to medical school.

As for residency, there will be issues with that if you want a family. It is easier for guys than girls because of the biological clock thing. But that means you need to make it clear to your future SO what residency is about. Just like it's fallacy for guys to assume that they can work 80 hrs/week and NOT worry about childcare because they will have stay at home wives, it's incorrect for girls to assume that they CAN'T work 80 hrs/week and have to go it alone with housework/childcare. In today's families, it's expected that fathers will participate in taking care of house and home, and it's expected that wives can contribute to the family income. If I work, I figure my husband will help with the chores.

 

[Law2Doc]

What about the nursing students, the physical therapy students, the MPH students who you are likely to come into contact? I don't think you're going to be limited to just medical students. Besides, I was just saying that half-jokingly. Do you think people really go to medical school to find a spouse? Maybe, but I'm hoping that they do it because they want to practice medicine.

You won't be interacting a whole lot with the nursing students or PT students as a med student, and basically will never ever come across MPH students (I don't think they even work in the hospital).
If you read the pre-allo board, you will see that a LOT of people are, in fact, misguidedly hoping to meet that special someone in med school.

 

[skee lo]

25/m, med student, want kids, hope to marry a hot young nurse after I finish residency, but will not marry a doctor so I'm afraid you are **** out of luck with me.

 

[alpha62]

25/m, med student, want kids, hope to marry a hot young nurse after I finish residency, but will not marry a doctor so I'm afraid you are **** out of luck with me.

My daughter just graduated from RN program. Her mamma is a looker, so is she. I've already warned her about quys like you.

Just like Jimmy Buffett sez, you got fins to the left and fins to the right and you're the only bait in town.

 

[Laker]

met my wife when she was a MSII and I was a first year law student at the same university. our love blossomed over many study sessions in the law library...and other "activities" to relieve stress.

to OP, if you are looking for guys...try studying at the local law school library or the MBA business library...I would avoid the engineering library, unless you want a nerdy type.

 

[darmalee]

You won't be interacting a whole lot with the nursing students or PT students as a med student, and basically will never ever come across MPH students (I don't think they even work in the hospital).
If you read the pre-allo board, you will see that a LOT of people are, in fact, misguidedly hoping to meet that special someone in med school.

Ok I'm just playing devil's advocate at the moment...not in med school yet, so no real opinion...BUT if what you're saying is true...that there are a LOT of people misguidedly hoping to meet that special someone in med school...doesn't that actually improve the chances? I mean, if there's so many of them out there. Haha. I just thought that was amusing and ironic...

 

[Excelsius]

When I asked about dating someone from your med school class, an SDN med student said that it's like sh!itting where you eat.

I find it very disappointing that the chances of meeting someone in med school are small. Maybe those who think so don't realize that maybe the small chances are only specific to their med school? I have never dated anyone my age. In fact my gf is much older and is a lawyer. Eventually I am going to have to move on due to the age difference, but it is certainly worrying that some say med school is not a good place to meet someone. I know that a LOT of law students couple up. Many marry as well or at least remain lifelong friends. If med school is not the place to meet someone mature and intelligent, which has been even more difficult in undergrad, then what is a good place?

Maybe it would help if a med school was located near a law school and other graduate school where students from various disciplines have the opportunity to interact, maybe live in the same area, etc. Are med schools like these?

There is always online dating, but I am strongly biased against it. Somehow it seems that the only ones online are the ones who are either unattracive (vast majority) or are not ambitious/intelligent. That type would rarely go online anyway, unless frustration forces them. I don't know what is the solution here.

As for intelligence being intimidating, you probably have not met the right types. For me that's not an intimidation, but an absolute prerequisite. That's why I don't have much success in finding what I need. Sure, I met a couple of intelligent gals in quantum physics, but man you can't imagine them being your gf! There is a beauty attrition rate that seems to be exponential in advanced physics courses.

If anyone has encountered solutions, write away.

 

[puchi]

OP I understand you completely. I try not to worry about it too much, I just want to get where I need to be career wise.

 

[Sunfire]

MissIntrigued, you could always give the PA profession more thought, it might give you what you're looking for...the ability to practice medicine along with less time of education and more flexibility. Just a thought...

I'm a non-trad student at 37 who switched my plans primarily for the fact that I don't want to be in my mid-40s when I graduate. I know plenty of people who do it, it's just not what I wanted. That's not to say that my grad education is going to be some walk in the park, nor am I going to be sitting on a merry-go-round eating bon-bons for the rest of my professional career, it's just the path that's going to work best for me.

No matter what you decide, good luck!

 

[ChairmanMao]

Ok I'm just playing devil's advocate at the moment...not in med school yet, so no real opinion...BUT if what you're saying is true...that there are a LOT of people misguidedly hoping to meet that special someone in med school...doesn't that actually improve the chances? I mean, if there's so many of them out there. Haha. I just thought that was amusing and ironic...

Yeah Law2Doc, how come that didn't figure into your brilliant deductive logic ? It doesn't matter if half of the class is already attached, what matters is that there are going to be students who are single and who are looking for a relationship (more so than when they were in undergrad). If you're open and interact with others on a regular basis (both in and out of class) - you are going to find that special someone. You have to remember that you don't have to restrict yourself to just your class, you can date upperclassmen and underclassmen (and residents and even post-bacs if you're really adventurous). That significantly increases the pool from which you can draw your suitors.

 

[Law2Doc]

doesn't that actually improve the chances? I mean, if there's so many of them out there. Haha. I just thought that was amusing and ironic...

Well, except that they constitute a lot of the people who didn't meet folks in undergrad, where it was much easier. You'll see what I'm talking about. A huge percentage of folks show up to med school attached. Of those that don't, there's a good percentage that you will have no interest in, even though they might be hoping to meet that special someone. The pool of singles in med school is basically selecting for folks that didn't get snapped up in college; sometimes there's a reason that a person is forever thinking, "well, when I get to college/med school/residency things will be different and I will have dates". There are certainly diamonds in the rough, but the competition for them is likely pretty fierce. Your odds within this path get worse, not better. Your odds outside the hospital probably continue to be decent, but you are going to have to get out there and look for them, work the bar scene, find non-health activities. If you go to med school expecting things to fall into your lap (pardon the pun), you are going to be waiting a very long time.

 

[Sainttpk]

Well, except that they constitute a lot of the people who didn't meet folks in undergrad, where it was much easier. You'll see what I'm talking about. A huge percentage of folks show up to med school attached. Of those that don't, there's a good percentage that you will have no interest in, even though they might be hoping to meet that special someone. The pool of singles in med school is basically selecting for folks that didn't get snapped up in college; sometimes there's a reason that a person is forever thinking, "well, when I get to college/med school/residency things will be different and I will have dates". There are certainly diamonds in the rough, but the competition for them is likely pretty fierce. Your odds within this path get worse, not better. Your odds outside the hospital probably continue to be decent, but you are going to have to get out there and look for them, work the bar scene, find non-health activities. If you go to med school expecting things to fall into your lap (pardon the pun), you are going to be waiting a very long time.

I actually agree with law2doc on this one. Being an undergrad is a much easier playing field when looking for dates. By the time people get into medical school belive it or not it does get harder. Mainly because of the time factor. I find that as people get older they get more pickier. Alot of very good looking women who want to get married are taken by their mid 20s. Of course that is up for debate, but I am willing to put myself out on a limb and say that.

If your looking for the right person, more then likely you are going to have to branch out into other areas besides medicine, especially if your picky when it comes to looks.

 

[ChairmanMao]

When I asked about dating someone from your med school class, an SDN med student said that it's like sh!itting where you eat.

Your friend wins the worst analogy of the year award

I find it very disappointing that the chances of meeting someone in med school are small. Maybe those who think so don't realize that maybe the small chances are only specific to their med school? I have never dated anyone my age. In fact my gf is much older and is a lawyer. Eventually I am going to have to move on due to the age difference, but it is certainly worrying that some say med school is not a good place to meet someone. I know that a LOT of law students couple up. Many marry as well or at least remain lifelong friends. If med school is not the place to meet someone mature and intelligent, which has been even more difficult in undergrad, then what is a good place?

This is good - I personally think medical students and residents should date more lawyers. Having a lawyer as a spouse helps you deal with the malpractice suit and makes it less likely that they will be suing us for malpractice in the near future.

There is always online dating, but I am strongly biased against it. Somehow it seems that the only ones online are the ones who are either unattracive (vast majority) or are not ambitious/intelligent. That type would rarely go online anyway, unless frustration forces them. I don't know what is the solution here.

I agree with this. Even though I've never tried online dating, some of the profiles on eHarmony and Yahoo personals scares me. Those that don't obviously used fake pictures or pictures of their attractive friends.

As for intelligence being intimidating, you probably have not met the right types. For me that's not an intimidation, but an absolute prerequisite. That's why I don't have much success in finding what I need. Sure, I met a couple of intelligent gals in quantum physics, but man you can't imagine them being your gf! There is a beauty attrition rate that seems to be exponential in advanced physics courses.

I agree with this also, most of the girls in nuclear physics course at my school looks like scrawny guys. That being said, the minimum prerequisite for me is a girl with a college degree. I'm probably going to have a hard time getting along with someone who didn't go to college or dropped out from high school.

If anyone has encountered solutions, write away.

I'm going to be working on a solution to this problem for the next 6 years. I'll let you know how it goes. Maybe we can co-author it together and get it published.

 

[alpha62]

See if you can get an elective rotation at a military health care facility.

Those females working there are mostly borderlines, were living on the margins of society before they went in. It's like a meat market happy hour that never stops, only with uniforms and guns.

Upside: they're toned, horny, and wouldn't know a boundry if they fell off one. They get great discounts on gov't sponsored, excise tax free ETOH. They all carry shot records, they wear dog tags, so the next morning you'll know who you just slept with.

downside: when the party ends, somebody has to go to jail, and they're usually seen as the victim.

 

[Lacheln]

I actually agree with law2doc on this one. Being an undergrad is a much easier playing field when looking for dates. By the time people get into medical school belive it or not it does get harder. Mainly because of the time factor. I find that as people get older they get more pickier. Alot of very good looking women who want to get married are taken by their mid 20s. Of course that is up for debate, but I am willing to put myself out on a limb and say that.

If your looking for the right person, more then likely you are going to have to branch out into other areas besides medicine, especially if your picky when it comes to looks.

I would agree as well - for one thing, pretty much all of my friends who have been through med school or are in med school say it was pretty rough, even if you had someone going in. I think another factor is the level of stress, and what it can do to a relationship. My own concerns are more along those lines, having been through it when I was working 50+ hours a week, taking classes, and volunteering. It's very hard for someone who is not pursuing something equally challenging to understand what your needs are and what you are going through...and not find your lack of time and energy annoying. And if they are going through something like that themselves there is a whole different set of challenges.

I don't agree that all the good ones are snapped up by med school, since people can be on different timelines. 30 actually seems to be a good age for dating in my experience. It seems the more educated you are the longer you wait to get married. There also seems to be a rash of divorces amongst the people who got married in their early 20s.

I wouldn't worry too much if you are a person with interests outside of academics though, way more opportunities to meet someone. That's true for life in general.

I find it interesting that the people knocking online dating haven't tried it. One of my friends from UMass med met her husband through match.com - they're both very attractive, smart, and have gone on to be an uber couple. She was 27 at the time, he was 31. I know plenty of other couples that have met through match. I tried it myself, but the problem was that at the time it was too time consuming, generally speaking the people I met in person were perfectly honest about themselves in their profiles. However, I'll grant you that the plural of anecdote isn't data.

 

[alpha62]

finish your psych rotation first. Learn all you can about neurotics, borderlines, fetishism, passive-agressive, codependent personalities.

Next, take what you've learned, do your gyn rotation. You meet plenty of whacked out crap being blamed on two little almond sized organs doing the best they can under the circumstances.

Put the two together and you will have encountered enough bitter, grudge carrying, perimenopausates and 30 somethings to see that it's a 50/50 crap shoot, so why bother with the fixer-upper in their late 30's - early 40s? This "cougar" craze is a myth and a freaking Ponzi scheme in a feeble attempt to liquidate some of the excess inventory in the pool right now.

Not to mention, you wait too long and you're going to get sucked into the single mother vortex and I can't tell you what kind of Kentucky-fried hell that is.

 

[MaryLennox]

i will be 27 when i start, if i get in on my first round of applications. i do want to have kids. i have have heard enough to believe that with enough support, it will be possible- if i pick the right specialty.

thats what worries me. i really want to go into surg but i am afraid surg + kids is either impossible, or at least would make my children/ spouse hate me. but then again, thats a long way away and maybe residencies will become more family-friendly in coming years. that would be nice.

this sounds so cliche that i am almost embarrassed to say it, but dont worry about being single and who you're gonna meet cause it will happen the way you least expect it. i was having a lot of the same thoughts as you not even a year ago (about being single in med school, etc) and now i am with someone who i never expected to ever agree to date- lol- and i am happier than i have ever been. i hope we can stay together through my med journey. he has been great so far.

i do agree with you though . . . this is a scary age to be thinking of going into medicine. but anything is possible. especially if you meet a guy who wants to be a stay at home dad (so don't date any med students!)

 

[PreMedPrincess]

I tell you, you men have it so easy. You guys can go in to med-school around 30 and be done by 34 with no worries of a future wife or family. Why? Because as a guy you can get with a 25-30 yr old with no worries. 35 yr old male doctor that is single is considered a catch. Whereas a 35 yr old female doctor is considered, well...is barely considered.

Men suck.

 

[ChairmanMao]

I would agree as well - for one thing, pretty much all of my friends who have been through med school or are in med school say it was pretty rough, even if you had someone going in. I think another factor is the level of stress, and what it can do to a relationship. My own concerns are more along those lines, having been through it when I was working 50+ hours a week, taking classes, and volunteering. It's very hard for someone who is not pursuing something equally challenging to understand what your needs are and what you are going through...and not find your lack of time and energy annoying. And if they are going through something like that themselves there is a whole different set of challenges.

I don't agree that all the good ones are snapped up by med school, since people can be on different timelines. 30 actually seems to be a good age for dating in my experience. It seems the more educated you are the longer you wait to get married. There also seems to be a rash of divorces amongst the people who got married in their early 20s.

Yeah, the thing is, I always think that those who get married in their early 20s are a bit too young. Once you get married, you have a lot less mobility in terms of where you want to go and the type of people you'll be able to meet (not to mention which medical school you want to go to and which residency program you end up in). Marriage should really be about settling down when you have a safe and stable lifestyle - that's pretty hard to do when there's a million other things going on in your life and when you're expected to work 80 hrs per week (hereto the high rate of divorce). As much as I sympathize with the OP's plight, I think it's much better to have a stable career nailed down and be ready to commit to a relationship than to try to rush out to find someone to be with by a certain timeline. I guess it's kind of like applying to medical school - apply when you're ready and when you can present yourself in the best possible light, anything less and you risk a long, protracted divorce or a loveless marriage.

I find it interesting that the people knocking online dating haven't tried it. One of my friends from UMass med met her husband through match.com - they're both very attractive, smart, and have gone on to be an uber couple. She was 27 at the time, he was 31. I know plenty of other couples that have met through match. I tried it myself, but the problem was that at the time it was too time consuming, generally speaking the people I met in person were perfectly honest about themselves in their profiles. However, I'll grant you that the plural of anecdote isn't data.

Half of what I say is pure sarcasm. I wouldn't consider online dating unless I was absolutely out of any other options. The only reason why I haven't done this is because I'm too cheap to pony up the $10 per month membership fee. That being said, the OP's situation might be different than mine. Depending on what type of people she meets in her post-bac program and her day to day life, her options might be more limited. I would still try to meet other through traditional means (friends and family members) since it's more likely to result in a better match and generally safer than meeting random strangers online.

 

[futureboy]

I tell you, you men have it so easy. You guys can go in to med-school around 30 and be done by 34 with no worries of a future wife or family. Why? Because as a guy you can get with a 25-30 yr old with no worries. 35 yr old male doctor that is single is considered a catch. Whereas a 35 yr old female doctor is considered, well...is barely considered.

Men suck.

I understand your frustration, but is it our fault that men can become parents at an older age?

 

[kami333]

i will be 27 when i start, if i get in on my first round of applications. i do want to have kids. i have have heard enough to believe that with enough support, it will be possible- if i pick the right specialty.

thats what worries me. i really want to go into surg but i am afraid surg + kids is either impossible, or at least would make my children/ spouse hate me. but then again, thats a long way away and maybe residencies will become more family-friendly in coming years. that would be nice.

this sounds so cliche that i am almost embarrassed to say it, but dont worry about being single and who you're gonna meet cause it will happen the way you least expect it. i was having a lot of the same thoughts as you not even a year ago (about being single in med school, etc) and now i am with someone who i never expected to ever agree to date- lol- and i am happier than i have ever been. i hope we can stay together through my med journey. he has been great so far.

i do agree with you though . . . this is a scary age to be thinking of going into medicine. but anything is possible. especially if you meet a guy who wants to be a stay at home dad (so don't date any med students!)

I know a surgeon who has 3 or 4 kids, and I think her husband is a doc too. I think she had 2 while in residency.

Her advice was have nannies, two of them.

Someone else said in another thread babies don't really care who is looking after them as long as they get their milk, it's once they get older that you need to be around more.

 

[Excelsius]

Well, except that they constitute a lot of the people who didn't meet folks in undergrad, where it was much easier. You'll see what I'm talking about. A huge percentage of folks show up to med school attached. Of those that don't, there's a good percentage that you will have no interest in, even though they might be hoping to meet that special someone. The pool of singles in med school is basically selecting for folks that didn't get snapped up in college; sometimes there's a reason that a person is forever thinking, "well, when I get to college/med school/residency things will be different and I will have dates". There are certainly diamonds in the rough, but the competition for them is likely pretty fierce. Your odds within this path get worse, not better. Your odds outside the hospital probably continue to be decent, but you are going to have to get out there and look for them, work the bar scene, find non-health activities. If you go to med school expecting things to fall into your lap (pardon the pun), you are going to be waiting a very long time.

One of the reasons for not getting snapped up in undergrad is that the UG crowd is far more immature than the grad crowd. The chances of a person who is very intelligent and mature are not great to find another one in the same, large, immature pool. In additional, many of us also feel that we don't want to waste too much time on that in UG. All of this sets the stage for grad school. There are many examples around, but for one, check out the Obamas' story. I actually think that UG is a positive filter that should theoretically filter out the people who were somehow too shallow and became married at such a young age. The rest of the people must have been more mature. Now sure, you can bring the point that some of these people have some problems that prevented them to find someone in college, but I don't think those numbers should be high. After all, UG is a pretty immature crowd and no matter how bad someone is, that someone can find someone else who is just as bad and pair up. So the ratio of quality vs no-quality matriculants to med school must be skewed towards the former. Let's also not forget the school factor. I suspect that med schools like the UCs (e.g., UCSD) will have larger pool of local attractive applicants than many other schools in the country. Those schools that accept applicants from everywhere without any particular demographic concentration will be true craps shoots. Have to keep these variables in mind when we discuss bf/gf experience in med school. And DOs probably will have the least opportunities because they are skewed towards non-trads who often can be settled before med school.

See if you can get an elective rotation at a military health care facility.

Those females working there are mostly borderlines, were living on the margins of society before they went in. It's like a meat market happy hour that never stops, only with uniforms and guns.

Upside: they're toned, horny, and wouldn't know a boundry if they fell off one. They get great discounts on gov't sponsored, excise tax free ETOH. They all carry shot records, they wear dog tags, so the next morning you'll know who you just slept with.

downside: when the party ends, somebody has to go to jail, and they're usually seen as the victim.

Maybe good for a temporary liaison, but that's it. The discussion here is for more "sophisticated" finds.

I tell you, you men have it so easy. You guys can go in to med-school around 30 and be done by 34 with no worries of a future wife or family. Why? Because as a guy you can get with a 25-30 yr old with no worries. 35 yr old male doctor that is single is considered a catch. Whereas a 35 yr old female doctor is considered, well...is barely considered.

Men suck.

Not so fast: evolutionarily it's the male that loses. Males must really compete to get anything, while as a female, you get to sit and choose which one you exactly want. I think there was a species of ungulates that females drove to extinction. They favored large, heavy horns in males so much that the weight of the horns cause the necks of the males to break. Don't remember too clearly, but you get the point. So negatives and positives all around. By the way, at least for me, 35 is more like the norm even though I have more than 10 years to reach that age myself. As fertility science advances, women in their thirties will probably be the best. It is just completely another level, as if a different species than the 20s crowd.

I just noticed that the OPs title is that she wants kids. OK, I think maybe part of the reason you haven't met someone is your reasoning. Look at it this way: you are basically looking for a baby, not a mate. Don't want to go through the whole Freudian psychology, but your approach has high probability resulting in a divorce and other pain, considering you get there. I would never get together with anyone who mainly wants to have kids. I have seen several couples that have divorced when their newborn was not even a few years old (the female had married in her early 30s and had been in a hurry). Alimony, bitterness, custody haunt through the rest of their lives. Not worth it. If you need a baby, visit a sperm bank (or finish medschool and marry a cab driver). You women are making a pretty bad mistake when your motivation for marrying someone is overshadowed by your desire to have a child. Sort of like when we're very hungry, we eat too much, before the damn brain stops us with the 20 minute delay.

 

[engineeredout]

I am by no means unattractive. I'm actually quite attractive, a good all around catch, intelligent and funny and easy to be with. A guy once told me that fact that I was both "hot and really smart" was intimidating for men. WTF?

How about the other side of the ball? When I meet girls and they ask me what I'm studying, I say engineering and math, and suddenly I see in their face the horror of realizing that I am a certified nerd who probably sits in front of a computer all day in dark tan pants and a pale green shirt modeling refinery equipment (which happens to be true at the moment but thats besides the point). Hot & smart seems to be elusive around my school, especially in the kinds of classes I take. Find me a hot girl in chemical engineering kinetics and I'll find you someone who probably has some kind of major problem.

I don't think too many girls have been intimidated by my hotness though.

to OP, if you are looking for guys...try studying at the local law school library or the MBA business library...I would avoid the engineering library, unless you want a nerdy type.

HEY!!! Is law school going to help you refine that oil? I DON'T THINK SO BITCH. And engineer doesn't always equal nerdy. It means that we worked our asses off in college. Does that make me a nerdy techno geek who would rather sit home on friday night playing world of warcraft? NO.
Admittidly nerdy engineers are pretty common, but there are certainly exceptions.




As for online dating, yeah I'd avoid that like the plauge. I worked with a guy who met this girl through online dating. I didn't find her particularly attractive but hey to each his own.

I found out that he was later arrested. Turns out she was actually mentally retarted. Apparently he did stuff with her that she couldn't legally consent to...





Okay I think this describes what that guy was saying perfectly:

**** link broken. Need an engineer to fix this.

Oh wait...


http://books.google.com/books?id=py1QS2kqkZoC&pg=PA198&lpg=PA198&dq=%22Is+it+so+hard+to+believe+that+a+hot,+intelligent%22+dilbert&source=web&ots=6HTs7D7cxC&sig=GhzJJlHXj7ZZvw6Ryq0a-VD7srw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result

Thats perfect.

 

[teddybear]

engineer doesn't always equal nerdy.

That's true. I can't stand people who stereotype.

 

[dragonfly99]

MissIntrigued
you are facing a question lots of women face
and almost all professional women face
I think that nobody should do medicine unless they are absolutely committed and definitely want to do it. Those who did medicine for the money or because of family pressures, etc. end up miserable. I know what I am talking about. I have finished residency and I have seen/known these people.

Medicine is a stable, secure job but not all doctors get rich. Just be aware of that. And you WILL have worse work hours that quite a few other jobs.

Having said that, if having a family is a high priority for you, there are specialties that will accommodate that. Pathology, dermatology, physical medicine/rehab, etc. Also lots of pediatrics residents I have known had kids, even during residency. Some fields like general surgery or orthopedics I think would be super difficult for a woman who wanted to have kids during residency...but there are people I know of who had a baby during surgical residency. You had damn well better have a good husband and have some in-laws in town though, if you want to do that.

You are not that old. If you really want to do medicine, then just go for it. If you are unsure then you need to think hard about what you are doing. Nurse practitioners and PA's do a lot of the same stuff and make similar money to a general pediatrician or family practitioner, especially one who doesn't take much hospital call. A person interested in primary care might do well for himself/herself by considering these fields vs. a pediatrics or family practice residency. There are other interesting careers for a smart person. Medicine is quite demanding in terms of emotional requirements, time requirements, etc. on top of needing to "get it done academically".

I think it's interesting that this thread degenerated into a discussion of just dating. It's interesting (but not particularly revealing) to find out what some of you 20-something guys think of us 30 year old women!
p.s. we're not all desperate to have a baby NOW and we're not all fixated on our biological clocks!
p.p.s. there are lots of guys who find us attractive, say, 32 yo guys who have jobs and their moms don't still do their laundry

 

[alpha62]

That's true. I can't stand people who stereotype.

"stereotype", what do you think evidenced based medicine is ?

Are you sure you all out there just aren't looking for a wife with a penis ?

 

[Law2Doc]

p.s. we're not all desperate to have a baby NOW and we're not all fixated on our biological clocks!

Of course not, but OP clearly is, and she set the tone of the discussion.

 

[Law2Doc]

So the ratio of quality vs no-quality matriculants to med school must be skewed towards the former.

Not so much. You have to realize that the things that med schools select for in a med student are very different than the things most individuals select for in a mate. An overachiever who loves to divide his "spare" time between volunteering in a soup kitchen, pulling late nighters in the library and running gels in the lab, may not be the most attentive dating partner.

There are absolutely diamonds in the rough, but the odds of two of them finding each other in med school just aren't as great as either in undergrad, or outside of med school, where there are more, unattached of each gender. A huge percentage of med students show up attached. Of those that aren't attached, some (of both sexes) aren't going to interest you. That leaves a very small number. By contrast there is a huge number of single people outside of the hospital walls, if you only had the time and put in the effort to meet them. So that is really your best bet, no matter how you slice it. Folks who are betting on meeting their mates in their med school class are barking up the wrong tree, most of the time.

 

[PreMedPrincess]

Not so much. You have to realize that the things that med schools select for in a med student are very different than the things most individuals select for in a mate. An overachiever who loves to divide his "spare" time between volunteering in a soup kitchen, pulling late nighters in the library and running gels in the lab, may not be the most attentive dating partner.

There are absolutely diamonds in the rough, but the odds of two of them finding each other in med school just aren't as great as either in undergrad, or outside of med school, where there are more, unattached of each gender. A huge percentage of med students show up attached. Of those that aren't attached, some (of both sexes) aren't going to interest you. That leaves a very small number. By contrast there is a huge number of single people outside of the hospital walls, if you only had the time and put in the effort to meet them. So that is really your best bet, no matter how you slice it. Folks who are betting on meeting their mates in their med school class are barking up the wrong tree, most of the time.

I think it is safe to say that people, in general, should not go in to med-school with any sort of expectations. Expectations of certain classes, expectations of specialties, and expectations of a potential mate can ruin med-school for you.

Honest answer is, nothing is COMPLETELY predictable. And while people like Law2Doc view things from a more pessemistic stand point ie., "The glass is half empty," I prefer the glass being "half full."

Law2Doc, I find your subjective posts to be very informative and tactfull. Your objective posts, however, tend to be negative and depressing. Im not submiting that you "sugar-coat" or lie, but that you view things from different perspectives. Because, guess what, some people WILL find a mate in med-school, and some people WILL go in to the specialty they originally wanted to. For you to suggest otherwise is a downright lie.

Finally, if you approach anything for the right reasons, the rest will fall in place.

 

[Law2Doc]

Because, guess what, some people WILL find a mate in med-school, and some people WILL go in to the specialty they originally wanted to. For you to suggest otherwise is a downright lie.

I never denied either of these things. If you look above, you will say that I agree there are some "diamonds in the rough" to be found in med school. You're just not the fishing in a stocked pond you might find elsewhere, and so it benefits you to look for your mate elsewhere. And in terms of specialty, I don't know what you are referring to. MOST med students will change their minds at least once in med school. What you think you like going in might not be what you like when you see it, and some things you think you won't like, you actually will. And you cannot deny that most people simply do not get into the more competitive specialties, so if you only wanted to be a dermatologist, ophthalmologist, or plastic surgeon and would hate anything else in medicine, I would suggest you not go into med school because statistically most people don't get one of those. Not sure what you see as a lie in this -- it's factually accurate and realistic. That you don't like the truth doesn't make the person telling it a liar.

 

[atomi]

Alright, I would love to know f ANYONE is in a smiliar situation to myself?

Not in a similar situation, but everybody here needs to chill out and realize that medical school is just something you do -- it's not your life. Not anymore than high school or college was -- it's just something you do. Some people make it their life and those people usually lack balance and do so because they don't have anything else in life. That's not healthy and that's not normal. If you want to attract a goodman, then you need to act like an attractive woman. This means being humble, reserved/shy, and proper (If your objective is to attract a jerk, let me know I can give you some different advice). High achieving women seem to often have difficulty with this. Let the man be the man and don't make a big deal that you will soon have a doctorate in medicine. It's obviously a big deal, but if shrug it off like it's nothing and focus your attention 100% on the guy, trust me he will go nuts over you. Nothing will scare a guy away faster than a woman who boasts about her achievements. Why? Because it will most likely intimidate him, and men don't want to be with women who intimidate them. If you are humble about your achievements on the other hand, the guy will be thinking to himself "wow, here's an incredibly bright girl who could be very successful on her own, but is choosing to spend her time with me instead, and she's actually down-to-earth! What did I do to deserve this chance??"

Sorry if this sounds sexist, but it's pretty much the truth from a guy's point of view.

Oh, and if you do have children, please take a leave from your career to properly raise them for their sake. Nothing irritates me more than people who send their kids to day-care so they can continue to enjoy their previous standard of living. Children need to be raised by their mother if they are going to have at least a minimal chance of turning out alright.

But my point is, don't worry about medical school. Unless you let it, it's not going to prevent you from being happy and starting a normal family life. It's just something you do.

 

[atomi]

Finally, if you approach anything for the right reasons, the rest will fall in place.

Thank you, this is what I was trying to say, but you said it a lot better than I did. Some people are cynical by nature and lead depressed, unfulfilled lives -- happy people are ignorant people in their minds. For the rest of us, don't let them get you down, everything will be ok.

 

[darmalee]

Not in a similar situation, but everybody here needs to chill out and realize that medical school is just something you do -- it's not your life. Not anymore than high school or college was -- it's just something you do. Some people make it their life and those people usually lack balance and do so because they don't have anything else in life. That's not healthy and that's not normal. If you want to attract a goodman, then you need to act like an attractive woman. This means being humble, reserved/shy, and proper (If your objective is to attract a jerk, let me know I can give you some different advice). High achieving women seem to often have difficulty with this. Let the man be the man and don't make a big deal that you will soon have a doctorate in medicine. It's obviously a big deal, but if shrug it off like it's nothing and focus your attention 100% on the guy, trust me he will go nuts over you. Nothing will scare a guy away faster than a woman who boasts about her achievements. Why? Because it will most likely intimidate him, and men don't want to be with women who intimidate them. If you are humble about your achievements on the other hand, the guy will be thinking to himself "wow, here's an incredibly bright girl who could be very successful on her own, but is choosing to spend her time with me instead, and she's actually down-to-earth! What did I do to deserve this chance??"

Sorry if this sounds sexist, but it's pretty much the truth from a guy's point of view.

Oh, and if you do have children, please take a leave from your career to properly raise them for their sake. Nothing irritates me more than people who send their kids to day-care so they can continue to enjoy their previous standard of living. Children need to be raised by their mother if they are going to have at least a minimal chance of turning out alright.

But my point is, don't worry about medical school. Unless you let it, it's not going to prevent you from being happy and starting a normal family life. It's just something you do.

So basically you're saying that in order to attract a decent men, we're supposed to not show pride in our accomplishments, and oh, that's right, when we have kids we should stop everything in order to stay at home and raise children? Give me a break. I'm not a crazy feminist by any means, but I definitely don't believe that it's a woman's devine responsibility to give up everything for husband and children. If I'm proud of what I'm accomplishing, then I'm going to show it, and if a man doesn't like that, well that's fine with me. He's clearly not the one for me. And if I do end up having children, I'm not taking an 18 year time out to "properly raise them." Studies have proven that children that spend time in day care or equivalent services actually grow up with better social skills. It's just societal prejudices that make it seem like an absent mother is ruining children. And if it is so important to have a parent stay home and raise the children, why the hell can't the father do it? I know this is somewhat off the original topic, but I couldn't help responding to this. MY advice to the OP...don't change who you are to try to attract a man. There's nothing worse than settling. Be open to opportunities, but do not make adjustments to who you are just because someone else tells you that there are more "attractive" characteristics you could exhibit. Once you do find someone you care about, then by all means compromise to make it work, but don't sell yourself short now.