Any online lecture showing whole process of analyzing abdomen or chest ct??

[Im radio]

I major internal medicine
I am working in army now so i don't have access to hospital's pacs program or severe cases. Soon i will go back to my hospital
I was always not very good at ct scans

1. I need online lectures not showing one cut view but showing whole ct analyzing process.

2. Plus do u guys know how to study via Dicom or pacs library? Important point is that they should show whole ct films, not one cut.

I don't need ****ty cancer cases for radiology board review but i need basic cases and anatomy
Thanks and sorry for my poor english

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[Cognovi]

I major internal medicine
I am working in army now so i don't have access to hospital's pacs program or severe cases. Soon i will go back to my hospital
I was always not very good at ct scans

1. I need online lectures not showing one cut view but showing whole ct analyzing process.

2. Plus do u guys know how to study via Dicom or pacs library? Important point is that they should show whole ct films, not one cut.

I don't need ****ty cancer cases for radiology board review but i need basic cases and anatomy
Thanks and sorry for my poor english

Have you tried radiopaedia.org

 

[2brads]

Go buy e-Anatomy.

 

[Pinocytosis]

Just to provide links to the abovementioned posts.

Radiopedia:
- normal chest CT: Normal CT chest | Radiology Case | Radiopaedia.org
- normal abdomen CT: Normal CT abdomen | Radiology Case | Radiopaedia.org
- main page for chest: Normal chest imaging examples | Radiology Reference Article | Radiopaedia.org
- main page for abdomen: Abdominal and pelvic anatomy | Radiology Reference Article | Radiopaedia.org
- pediatrics: Normal pediatric imaging examples | Radiology Reference Article | Radiopaedia.org
- labeled cases: Labeled imaging anatomy cases | Radiology Reference Article | Radiopaedia.org

E-anatomy:
- Main page: Anatomy, medical imaging and e-learning for healthcare professionals - IMAIOS
- Subscription page: https://www.imaios.com/en/account/subscription ($75/yr)

 

[Im radio]

Have you tried radiopaedia.org

I actuall tried. But case & quiz section was too broad(not basic) and i prefer lecture

Do u guys know any lecture or course?

 

[2brads]

You're asking for an online residency....

 

[Im radio]

You're asking for an online residency....

Yes kind of online residency. But EKG has so many good lectures. Even endoscopy has great lectures but i cannot find good abdominal CT lecture. Except for advanced radiologist, showing one cut and numerous cancers

 

[2brads]

Unfortunately, the first few months/years of residency are devoted to just figuring out what the heck “normal” looks like. Only then can you start to describe “abnormal”. That’s why we have suggested the above resources and that’s why you’re only finding lectures with a few representative images.

 

[Cognovi]

One of the Radiopaedia editors also has basic videos for abdominal CT: learnabdominal.com - How to read CT

 

[Im radio]

One of the Radiopaedia editors also has basic videos for abdominal CT: learnabdominal.com - How to read CT

Great, thanks

 

[Im radio]

Unfortunately, the first few months/years of residency are devoted to just figuring out what the heck “normal” looks like. Only then can you start to describe “abnormal”. That’s why we have suggested the above resources and that’s why you’re only finding lectures with a few representative images.

What's your point? I was asking for basic lectures which describe 'normal' anatomy and basic diseases. I believe not every lecture is for advanced users. And i appreciate those resources.

 

[Dave1980]

I don't think I've ever met an IM person who can actually read a CT. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Clean7795]

To my knowledge there aren't really any good lectures out there to learn CT from scratch.

The normal is learnt by looking at hundreds of cases. Basic pathology are things you can look up individually and reinforce through seeing the case in real life. If you're asking for a search pattern, just look at any synoptic report and go in the order they list their organs.

There really isn't much more to it than that except doing it hundreds, then thousands of times.

 

[Cognovi]

To my knowledge there aren't really any good lectures out there to learn CT from scratch.

The normal is learnt by looking at hundreds of cases. Basic pathology are things you can look up individually and reinforce through seeing the case in real life. If you're asking for a search pattern, just look at any synoptic report and go in the order they list their organs.

There really isn't much more to it than that except doing it hundreds, then thousands of times.

There is slightly more to it: doing it with feedback. Supervised learning is a lot different from unsupervised learning. What this person is really asking about is how to simulate supervised learning without a supervisor.

 

[Im radio]

I don't think I've ever met an IM person who can actually read a CT. I wouldn't worry about it.

Honest answer i ever heard

 

[Im radio]

There is slightly more to it: doing it with feedback. Supervised learning is a lot different from unsupervised learning. What this person is really asking about is how to simulate supervised learning without a supervisor.

Sure i agree. Supervision is very important. I found radiopaedia youtube channel which is very helpful. I accept every recommendation i reviewed learnabdomen CT.com. And I am not in hospital so i need more cases to review

 

[2brads]

What's your point? I was asking for basic lectures which describe 'normal' anatomy and basic diseases. I believe not every lecture is for advanced users. And i appreciate those resources.

My point is, if you want to learn radiology then go do a radiology residency. And yes, virtually every lecture you come across will be “advanced”.

 

[betamale]

I major internal medicine
I am working in army now so i don't have access to hospital's pacs program or severe cases. Soon i will go back to my hospital
I was always not very good at ct scans

1. I need online lectures not showing one cut view but showing whole ct analyzing process.

2. Plus do u guys know how to study via Dicom or pacs library? Important point is that they should show whole ct films, not one cut.

I don't need ****ty cancer cases for radiology board review but i need basic cases and anatomy
Thanks and sorry for my poor english

Best online resource:
University of Virginia tutorial
Univ of Virginia

ONLINE TUTORIAL

Best beginner book:
Amazon product

Good luck

 

[Im radio]

My point is, if you want to learn radiology then go do a radiology residency. And yes, virtually every lecture you come across will be “advanced”.

First, i found many basic lectures which is not 'advanced' and it helped me a lot. I am not willing to take another residency program. Not every physician needs to do a radiology residency to learn radiology. I respect radiologists but your reply is kind of arrogant. Grow up.

 

[Im radio]

Best online resource:
University of Virginia tutorial
Univ of Virginia

ONLINE TUTORIAL

Best beginner book:
Amazon product

Good luck

Thank you! i will try

 

[2brads]

I think that it’s the height of arrogance to come here and demand to learn a specialty by watching a few videos. How would you feel if I demanded to learn your specialty in a few hours? Would you ask the same of other specialties? Your implication that the basics of radiology can be learned in such a trivial manner is insulting to radiologists. Our specialty is learned over countless hours on call and in tandem with more experienced trainees and attendings. If the videos you seek existed, they would be standard issue to every first year resident. The fact that they are not readily available speaks volumes.

 

[Im radio]

I think that it’s the height of arrogance to come here and demand to learn a specialty by watching a few videos. How would you feel if I demanded to learn your specialty in a few hours? Would you ask the same of other specialties? Your implication that the basics of radiology can be learned in such a trivial manner is insulting to radiologists. Our specialty is learned over countless hours on call and in tandem with more experienced trainees and attendings. If the videos you seek existed, they would be standard issue to every first year resident. The fact that they are not readily available speaks volumes.

height of arrogance = Asking how to read & improve abdomen CT to radiologists/residents ?
duh
I just wanted to read my patient's image better.(not like radiologists, I am not that good and I know I can't reach that level)
And I was asking for online course because of my circumstances.
I found many good lectures and helped me a lot. I am not insulting you.
I think you have some problems. Cool down man.

 

[2brads]

We gave you good resources but you came back and said not basic enough and you denigrated cancer patients. We gave you more resources and still you say not good enough.

Would you go over to the neurosurgery forum and ask “I want to get good at neurosurgery. I don’t want ****ty degen spine cases for board review but I need basic cases and anatomy”? If it’s not ok to ask it over there I don’t understand why you think it’s ok to do the same to radiologists.

 

[2brads]

I don’t know why you’re making this personal. It’s unprofessional and unbecoming.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

No need for personal attacks. Keep the forum professional.

 

[betamale]

I think it's better to have two sets of eyes looking at the CTs. I have made a fair share of calls to my radiology colleagues about life threatening misses and they were always very appreciative of it.

Having EM, IM, FM, OB, Neuro, Ortho, Surgery learn to eyeball imaging studies may help you guys one of these days. Think about it.

 

[guytakingboards]

I think it's better to have two sets of eyes looking at the CTs. I have made a fair share of calls to my radiology colleagues about life threatening misses and they were always very appreciative of it.

Having EM, IM, FM, OB, Neuro, Ortho, Surgery learn to eyeball imaging studies may help you guys one of these days. Think about it.

While some have chosen to denigrate clinicians looking at their own imaging, I also have had times where the clinicians have saved my bacon and definitely appreciate someone saving me from a patient-harming miss.

That being said, the OP asking a group of radiologists how to learn radiology which is fundamentally different than how a clinician looks at and learns radiology.

Clinicians learn radiology by reading our reports and correlating the imaging to the clinical picture, whether at surgery or by lab values. Sometimes they'll come down and ask the radiologists to explain the imaging. They also typically focus in solely on their area of interest.

Radiologists learn by repetition and supervised teaching. It's unlikely the OP could just self-learn radiology like a radiologist. He could learn radiology like a clinician, but that doesn't seem to be what he's asking for.

 

[Im radio]

While some have chosen to denigrate clinicians looking at their own imaging, I also have had times where the clinicians have saved my bacon and definitely appreciate someone saving me from a patient-harming miss.

That being said, the OP asking a group of radiologists how to learn radiology which is fundamentally different than how a clinician looks at and learns radiology.

Clinicians learn radiology by reading our reports and correlating the imaging to the clinical picture, whether at surgery or by lab values. Sometimes they'll come down and ask the radiologists to explain the imaging. They also typically focus in solely on their area of interest.

Radiologists learn by repetition and supervised teaching. It's unlikely the OP could just self-learn radiology like a radiologist. He could learn radiology like a clinician, but that doesn't seem to be what he's asking for.

Nice point. I was not insulting any radiologist. I just needed to remind myself what I've learned during my training and catch simple images before asking our hospital's radiologist.
I was shocked that some guy up there said arrogance kind of thing. If some other clinician asked me about EKG, I would never replied like that. Sorry for my poor english and wording. And I am not trying to be a radiologist.
I respect your guys work and I really need more cases to look at.
I have no access to hospital's PACS program because I am serving my country now.
I looked at all the sites you've recommended and it was very helpful.

 

[Tiger100]

I think it's better to have two sets of eyes looking at the CTs. I have made a fair share of calls to my radiology colleagues about life threatening misses and they were always very appreciative of it.

Having EM, IM, FM, OB, Neuro, Ortho, Surgery learn to eyeball imaging studies may help you guys one of these days. Think about it.

fair share of "Life Threatening misses" ???

Unless you call a small pulmonary nodule a life-threatening condition, most radiologists rarely miss life-threatening conditions.

 

[betamale]

fair share of "Life Threatening misses" ???

Unless you call a small pulmonary nodule a life-threatening condition, most radiologists rarely miss life-threatening conditions.

You'd be surprised. Let's see (mix of US, CT, MR, XR stuff)

1. Perforated gastric ulcer - missed
2. Subacute temporal lobe hematoma - missed
3. Appendicitis - missed
4. Pneumomediastinum - missed
5. Pneumothorax - missed, was not a subtle one either
6. HSV encephalitis - missed
7. Cholecystitis - missed, happening more and more often, which is very annoying
8. Flail chest - missed, caught this as an intern, pt ended up getting inappropriate cardiac admission as a result - wonder why chest hurts
9. Perforated diverticulitis/pneumoperitoneum - missed
10. Other Hodge podge of undercalled pathology like colitis, Mets on bone scan...

Granted, some of them were resident reads

The funny thing is that the addendum tends to say that they called me...uhm...I called them... embarrassing

I do have some radiology residency training...

 

[Tiger100]

You'd be surprised. Let's see (mix of US, CT, MR, XR stuff)

1. Perforated gastric ulcer - missed
2. Subacute temporal lobe hematoma - missed
3. Appendicitis - missed
4. Pneumomediastinum - missed
5. Pneumothorax - missed, was not a subtle one either
6. HSV encephalitis - missed
7. Cholecystitis - missed, happening more and more often, which is very annoying
8. Flail chest - missed, caught this as an intern, pt ended up getting inappropriate cardiac admission as a result - wonder why chest hurts
9. Perforated diverticulitis/pneumoperitoneum - missed
10. Other Hodge podge of undercalled pathology like colitis, Mets on bone scan...

Granted, some of them were resident reads

The funny thing is that the addendum tends to say that they called me...uhm...I called them... embarrassing

I do have some radiology residency training...

Then your radiology department sucks. It is very uncommon for a radiology department to miss things that obvious.

If you are talking about prelim reads by residents, then the program should change its call schedule and have upper level residents cover call and not first years.

 

[DOFOSHO]

You'd be surprised. Let's see (mix of US, CT, MR, XR stuff)

1. Perforated gastric ulcer - missed
2. Subacute temporal lobe hematoma - missed
3. Appendicitis - missed
4. Pneumomediastinum - missed
5. Pneumothorax - missed, was not a subtle one either
6. HSV encephalitis - missed
7. Cholecystitis - missed, happening more and more often, which is very annoying
8. Flail chest - missed, caught this as an intern, pt ended up getting inappropriate cardiac admission as a result - wonder why chest hurts
9. Perforated diverticulitis/pneumoperitoneum - missed
10. Other Hodge podge of undercalled pathology like colitis, Mets on bone scan...

Granted, some of them were resident reads

The funny thing is that the addendum tends to say that they called me...uhm...I called them... embarrassing

I do have some radiology residency training...

1. was this a supine radiograph?
2. was this only seen in retrospect AFTER the brain MRI?
3. hedged on prelim? more obvious on follow up?
4. missed on crappy portable AP?
5. you're awarded a point. no one should miss this.
6. cant see this on head CT early, assuming you mean it was missed on MRI brain??
7. This is the reason HIDAs are a thing. also why there are sarcastic impressions when indication for non-con CT a/p is "cholecytitis?"
8. should have been watching his step.
9. bad miss
10. attending specific.

most of the "misses" are because the wrong test was ordered. crap question in, crap answer out. but yea, shouldn't miss pneumo anything.

 

[gulmohr]

 

[betamale]

Then your radiology department sucks. It is very uncommon for a radiology department to miss things that obvious.

If you are talking about prelim reads by residents, then the program should change its call schedule and have upper level residents cover call and not first years.

Couple of annoying misses again...had to point it...more addendum that says I was called and not the other way around

1. Subarachnoid
2. Kidney stone with ruptured ureter
3. Tibial plateau fracture with ruptured ACL, MCL

There are advantages to teaching non-radiologists some radiology

 

[Tiger100]

Couple of annoying misses again...had to point it...more addendum that says I was called and not the other way around

1. Subarachnoid
2. Kidney stone with ruptured ureter
3. Tibial plateau fracture with ruptured ACL, MCL

There are advantages to teaching non-radiologists some radiology

The solution to your problem is to change the radiology group in your hospital and not having non-rads reading images. If what you are describing is correct (which is extremely rare and unlikely), then the radiologists in your hospital are at the bottom 1% of quality.

And if you want to become a radiologist, then go and become a radiologist.

 

[DOFOSHO]

Couple of annoying misses again...had to point it...more addendum that says I was called and not the other way around

1. Subarachnoid
2. Kidney stone with ruptured ureter
3. Tibial plateau fracture with ruptured ACL, MCL

There are advantages to teaching non-radiologists some radiology

you're either making this up or these are findings on follow up imaging using an appropriate test. My guess is you ordered a portable single view knee radiograph which was called normal, followed with an MRI that showed fracture and tears.

 

[GadRads]

you're either making this up or these are findings on follow up imaging using an appropriate test. My guess is you ordered a portable single view knee radiograph which was called normal, followed with an MRI that showed fracture and tears.

This was my guess as well.

 

[betamale]

you're either making this up or these are findings on follow up imaging using an appropriate test. My guess is you ordered a portable single view knee radiograph which was called normal, followed with an MRI that showed fracture and tears.

Last week, a wedged shaped abnormality with small effusion on my patient's right lung seen on the CT abd was called "pneumonia or atelectasis". Um, it was actually a PE with infarct on a confirmatory CTPE that I ordered. This is why I look at ALL my studies.

I don't generally order another study if I agree with a radiologist's "normal" read.

I do order a follow up study to better characterize a pathology that I see that a radiologist read as "normal". 🙄

Not sure what your referring physicians usual workflow is.

 

[DOFOSHO]

Last week, a wedged shaped abnormality with small effusion on my patient's right lung seen on the CT abd was called "pneumonia or atelectasis". Um, it was actually a PE with infarct on a confirmatory CTPE that I ordered. This is why I look at ALL my studies.

I don't generally order another study if I agree with a radiologist's "normal" read.

I do order a follow up study to better characterize a pathology that I see that a radiologist read as "normal". 🙄

Not sure what your referring physicians usual workflow is.

you just proved my point lol. you ordered a non-specific (or wrong) study, followed by the correct study, and then say the radiologist "missed" the finding on the wrong study. glad you found the PE on the PE study, you're awarded a gold star.

 

[betamale]

Misses this week:

1. rt hip fracture missed on rt hip XR. confirmed on CT
2. L1 compression fracture and anterior superior end plate fracture on an L spine CT

ugh...called radiologist and reports amended.

 

[GadRads]

Misses this week:

1. rt hip fracture missed on rt hip XR. confirmed on CT
2. L1 compression fracture and anterior superior end plate fracture on an L spine CT

ugh...called radiologist and reports amended.

I don't get your point. Are you expecting radiologists to be perfect? If you see the volume of studies most radiologists read and the speed with which they are read, you would be amazed that our misses aren't more.

I can point out misses and errors by other physicians and surgeons since I see quite a bit of their mistakes on imaging.

If you are able to read and dictate a stack of 25-30 CTs of varying anatomic regions and of varying complexity in 4-5 hours, and with little or sometimes even misleading indications, while being responsible for every single pixel/anatomy, then you would be the peer of a radiologist.

 

[betamale]

the point is, it's to yours and our patients' benefit for radiologists to teach non-radiologists how to pick up pathology on imaging. no one's perfect but diagnostic errors really puts us and the patient in a bad predicament

 

[qwerty89]

Last week, a wedged shaped abnormality with small effusion on my patient's right lung seen on the CT abd was called "pneumonia or atelectasis". Um, it was actually a PE with infarct on a confirmatory CTPE that I ordered. This is why I look at ALL my studies.

I don't generally order another study if I agree with a radiologist's "normal" read.

I do order a follow up study to better characterize a pathology that I see that a radiologist read as "normal". 🙄

Not sure what your referring physicians usual workflow is.

You do realize that pneumonia and an infarct can look identical, especially when all you are seeing is the lung bases.

Something tells me the OP is the type of person to tell med students that they read all of their own imaging and are better than the radiologists with a smirk on their face.

 

[qwerty89]

I don't get your point. Are you expecting radiologists to be perfect? If you see the volume of studies most radiologists read and the speed with which they are read, you would be amazed that our misses aren't more.

I can point out misses and errors by other physicians and surgeons since I see quite a bit of their mistakes on imaging.

If you are able to read and dictate a stack of 25-30 CTs of varying anatomic regions and of varying complexity in 4-5 hours, and with little or sometimes even misleading indications, while being responsible for every single pixel/anatomy, then you would be the peer of a radiologist.

Nothing like reading an MR Brain for "s/p gamma knife" when in fact the scheduled gamma knife treatment did not occur...considering its the difference between saying expected post-treatment changes vs disease progression.

 

[Cognovi]

You'd be surprised. Let's see (mix of US, CT, MR, XR stuff)

1. Perforated gastric ulcer - missed
2. Subacute temporal lobe hematoma - missed
3. Appendicitis - missed
4. Pneumomediastinum - missed
5. Pneumothorax - missed, was not a subtle one either
6. HSV encephalitis - missed
7. Cholecystitis - missed, happening more and more often, which is very annoying
8. Flail chest - missed, caught this as an intern, pt ended up getting inappropriate cardiac admission as a result - wonder why chest hurts
9. Perforated diverticulitis/pneumoperitoneum - missed
10. Other Hodge podge of undercalled pathology like colitis, Mets on bone scan...

Granted, some of them were resident reads

The funny thing is that the addendum tends to say that they called me...uhm...I called them... embarrassing

I do have some radiology residency training...

How much radiology residency did you do?

 

[guytakingboards]

the point is, it's to yours and our patients' benefit for radiologists to teach non-radiologists how to pick up pathology on imaging. no one's perfect but diagnostic errors really puts us and the patient in a bad predicament

That's not the take home I'm getting from your posts. The take-home is that clinicians should do a few years of radiology and then switch into their clinical specialty. You were trained in image interpretation as a radiologist.

Our specialty could definitely look to the clinical fields and say "it's to yours and your patients' benefit for clinicians to put an accurate and useful history on the exam order. no one's perfect but diagnostic errors really puts us and the patient in a bad predicament".

 

[Tiger100]

DNFTT.

 

[yungspleen]

This whole thread is filled with toxicity