Any current D4s able/willing to post on starting salary in your area?

[839255]

I'm particularly interested to see how students in the Midwest (especially those in cities) are doing but would love input from others.

A little bit of scanning on job boards seems to indicate that areas I would have an interest in are paying pretty well (115-140k) for associates. I understand that definitive dental salaries are hard to come by but I would love any input on whether or not it's as doom and gloom as some say.

I'm really thinking about going down this path but I am not looking to set myself up for financial ruin either. My calculation for which schools are worth it is (dental salary - tax)*4 years >= (tuition +fees).

Essentially, my maximum tolerance for debt from dental school is 4 years of my time. My current estimation is dental salary 120k -->~85k after taxes. So four year tuition+fees would need to be less than $340,000 to make the decision financially worth it.

I've crafted a pretty detailed excel sheet of tuition at every school in the country and highlights the schools that seem like great deals (under 220k), good deals (220-320k), questionable deals (320k-400k) and horrible deals (400k+).

Is my 120k starting salary a safe assumption or am I being too optimistic. I would love to get some harder numbers from either very recent grads (under 5 years) and D4s.

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[Flemish]

I would appreciate some info on the Southeast as well, if OP doesn't mind me piggybacking his post. As well as how corporate jobs compare to associate positions in terms of salary/benefits.

 

[1070752]

Same.

 

[gangazi]

If you go to dental forum there is an exact same post

 

[DOC YANKEM]

Taxes are drastically different by state. I hope you look deeper into the state you plan to practice in. In addition, your calculations are highly dependent that you will be spending almost all of your salary, after taxes, towards your student loans. Are you planning to live with your parents for 4 years? Either you have a very supportive spouse/family or you are highly underestimating the broke life.

Edit: You will always find associate jobs and you will most likely be working at multiple dental practices, especially if you are a specialist. I would think about how much you plan to sacrifice as a mere associate before you stress out when you open your own practice. Slow and steady my friend. Monday thru Friday 9am- 5pm schedule WITH ample time to eat your meals. I've seen many dentists work so hard to a point, they frequently eat late or skip meals.

 

[schmoob]

I'm particularly interested to see how students in the Midwest (especially those in cities) are doing but would love input from others.

A little bit of scanning on job boards seems to indicate that areas I would have an interest in are paying pretty well (115-140k) for associates. I understand that definitive dental salaries are hard to come by but I would love any input on whether or not it's as doom and gloom as some say.

I'm really thinking about going down this path but I am not looking to set myself up for financial ruin either. My calculation for which schools are worth it is (dental salary - tax)*4 years >= (tuition +fees).

Essentially, my maximum tolerance for debt from dental school is 4 years of my time. My current estimation is dental salary 120k -->~85k after taxes. So four year tuition+fees would need to be less than $340,000 to make the decision financially worth it.

I've crafted a pretty detailed excel sheet of tuition at every school in the country and highlights the schools that seem like great deals (under 220k), good deals (220-320k), questionable deals (320k-400k) and horrible deals (400k+).

Is my 120k starting salary a safe assumption or am I being too optimistic. I would love to get some harder numbers from either very recent grads (under 5 years) and D4s.

It's good to see someone doing their research.
I am a little confused by your logic though. I don't see how you expect to pay off 340K of debt in 4 years. Interest will still accrue from the time you take out your loan until you pay it off, so 340K is high. You would also need to account for increases in cost as well.
Honestly, if you want to be completely free from dental school tuition debt in 4 years, theres really only 1 way....
Either way, you are way ahead of the game just based on your insight to look into it now.

 

[tony729]

I'm particularly interested to see how students in the Midwest (especially those in cities) are doing but would love input from others.

A little bit of scanning on job boards seems to indicate that areas I would have an interest in are paying pretty well (115-140k) for associates. I understand that definitive dental salaries are hard to come by but I would love any input on whether or not it's as doom and gloom as some say.

I'm really thinking about going down this path but I am not looking to set myself up for financial ruin either. My calculation for which schools are worth it is (dental salary - tax)*4 years >= (tuition +fees).

Essentially, my maximum tolerance for debt from dental school is 4 years of my time. My current estimation is dental salary 120k -->~85k after taxes. So four year tuition+fees would need to be less than $340,000 to make the decision financially worth it.

I've crafted a pretty detailed excel sheet of tuition at every school in the country and highlights the schools that seem like great deals (under 220k), good deals (220-320k), questionable deals (320k-400k) and horrible deals (400k+).

Is my 120k starting salary a safe assumption or am I being too optimistic. I would love to get some harder numbers from either very recent grads (under 5 years) and D4s.

OP if you don't mind I would like to see the excel school tuition you have created to get an idea.

 

[577455]

I work at a place which rotates D4s every few weeks. After speaking to them, $120k starting seems very reasonable. A few offers I've heard are $110k a year working 3 days a week, $160k per year working part time at two offices, $130k per year working the standard M-F 8-5pm. This is in the Mid-west.

 

[Medin2017]

I work at a place which rotates D4s every few weeks. After speaking to them, $120k starting seems very reasonable. A few offers I've heard are $110k a year working 3 days a week, $160k per year working part time at two offices, $130k per year working the standard M-F 8-5pm. This is in the Mid-west.

the 110 per 3 day is insane. That's 183k per year if you found a 2 day gig at a similar rate. For starting that would be freaking amazing

 

[321931]

I just filed my taxes
1st year 120k 5 days week
2cd year 160k 4 1/2 days week
3rd year unknown

All my friends are in the same boat ranging from 100 to 200. I don't know anyone making above the 250 mark unless they are owners.

 

[InformMe123]

are 3 day associate gigs easy to find?

 

[321931]

are 3 day associate gigs easy to find?

Good ones that pay well are extremely hard to find. You will most likely encounter 500-600 day for a part time worker which amounts to nothing.

 

[predental21250]

I just filed my taxes
1st year 120k 5 days week
2cd year 160k 4 1/2 days week
3rd year unknown

All my friends are in the same boat ranging from 100 to 200. I don't know anyone making above the 250 mark unless they are owners.

Did you start seeing many more patients between your 1st and 2nd year?

 

[321931]

Did you start seeing many more patients between your 1st and 2nd year?

Went through about 5 jobs, before finding a decent one. It's a jungle out there. Good luck. Dentists eat their young.

 

[321931]

The problem with the 3 day gig and the 2 day gig is that you will most likely:

1) be hired as a 1099 meanin you pay more taxes

2) pay for own healthcare and benefits since you aren't full time

3) the likelihood of a good practice where you can build your schedule and therefore produce and make money is very slim on 2-3 day work weeks.

Reasonable expectations are 120-180 depending on experience. 250k is unreasonable unless in a much needed area and with a few years of experience.

 

[predental21250]

Went through about 5 jobs, before finding a decent one. It's a jungle out there. Good luck. Dentists eat their young.

What made you leave each of those offices? What is it like working for another doctor? I am a current assistant heading to dental school - my only experience/insight has been with a single doctor working for himself in his office.

 

[321931]

What made you leave each of those offices? What is it like working for another doctor? I am a current assistant heading to dental school - my only experience/insight has been with a single doctor working for himself in his office.

To much to type out, and honestly you shouldn't worry about it until you have your degree. Everyone associates for 1-2 years then realizes its a waste of time and goes to open up their own shop.

 

[Medin2017]

To much to type out, and honestly you shouldn't worry about it until you have your degree. Everyone associates for 1-2 years then realizes its a waste of time and goes to open up their own shop.

rainee not to make this an AMA, but if u could go back to dental school, would you have specialized?

 

[321931]

rainee not to make this an AMA, but if u could go back to dental school, would you have specialized?

No.

1) GP can do everything. Endo, OS, Full Mouth Rehab, whatever you want. I used to think I liked Endo or OS but when you have 3 Molar RCT or a day full of Exts, you realize that variety is the spice of life. In addition, I do everything and enjoy it. Who wants to do a #15 molar RCT on a patient who can't recline with a hard medical history. Same with OS. Hand off the hard stuff to specialist and do the easy stuff.

2) Specializing costs $$$. Certain specialties means added loans. I graduated with 200k, why add 200k on top of it?

3) Specializing does not equate to making more money. Being a successful business owner is very different from being a successful clinician. Yes it's true that Endo and OS have perhaps lower overhead and less competition, but the bottom line is if you can run a successful practice as a GP you can make more than a Endo, OS, GP, Prostho. I've seen enough practices and I've seen enough numbers to see that.

 

[Medin2017]

No.

1) GP can do everything. Endo, OS, Full Mouth Rehab, whatever you want. I used to think I liked Endo or OS but when you have 3 Molar RCT or a day full of Exts, you realize that variety is the spice of life. In addition, I do everything and enjoy it. Who wants to do a #15 molar RCT on a patient who can't recline with a hard medical history. Same with OS. Hand off the hard stuff to specialist and do the easy stuff.

2) Specializing costs $$$. Certain specialties means added loans. I graduated with 200k, why add 200k on top of it?

3) Specializing does not equate to making more money. Being a successful business owner is very different from being a successful clinician. Yes it's true that Endo and OS have perhaps lower overhead and less competition, but the bottom line is if you can run a successful practice as a GP you can make more than a Endo, OS, GP, Prostho. I've seen enough practices and I've seen enough numbers to see that.

Yea I guess if you're an outlier type dentist with super business skills it is so, but a median dentist wouldn't fair as well. I wonder about the future of dentistry vs various specialties as well. Guess can only find out when I get there. We won't know who's a median dentist until they're out in the field unfortunately

 

[321931]

Yea I guess if you're an outlier type dentist with super business skills it is so, but a median dentist wouldn't fair as well. I wonder about the future of dentistry vs various specialties as well. Guess can only find out when I get there. We won't know who's a median dentist until they're out in the field unfortunately

My opinion is that with lower reimbursements, and more competition- things will be kept in house. What does this mean for specialists? Less referalls...stiffer competition...harder referals...you get the picture.

 

[Incis0r]

No.

1) GP can do everything. Endo, OS, Full Mouth Rehab, whatever you want. I used to think I liked Endo or OS but when you have 3 Molar RCT or a day full of Exts, you realize that variety is the spice of life. In addition, I do everything and enjoy it. Who wants to do a #15 molar RCT on a patient who can't recline with a hard medical history. Same with OS. Hand off the hard stuff to specialist and do the easy stuff.

2) Specializing costs $$$. Certain specialties means added loans. I graduated with 200k, why add 200k on top of it?

3) Specializing does not equate to making more money. Being a successful business owner is very different from being a successful clinician. Yes it's true that Endo and OS have perhaps lower overhead and less competition, but the bottom line is if you can run a successful practice as a GP you can make more than a Endo, OS, GP, Prostho. I've seen enough practices and I've seen enough numbers to see that.

Hey Renee thank you for being so open about your experience in dentistry and for sharing your journey with us. Really appreciate it!

 

[aggietxdent]

No.

1) GP can do everything. Endo, OS, Full Mouth Rehab, whatever you want. I used to think I liked Endo or OS but when you have 3 Molar RCT or a day full of Exts, you realize that variety is the spice of life. In addition, I do everything and enjoy it. Who wants to do a #15 molar RCT on a patient who can't recline with a hard medical history. Same with OS. Hand off the hard stuff to specialist and do the easy stuff.

2) Specializing costs $$$. Certain specialties means added loans. I graduated with 200k, why add 200k on top of it?

3) Specializing does not equate to making more money. Being a successful business owner is very different from being a successful clinician. Yes it's true that Endo and OS have perhaps lower overhead and less competition, but the bottom line is if you can run a successful practice as a GP you can make more than a Endo, OS, GP, Prostho. I've seen enough practices and I've seen enough numbers to see that.

What's your opinion on a one year AEGD/GPR?

 

[Medin2017]

My opinion is that with lower reimbursements, and more competition- things will be kept in house. What does this mean for specialists? Less referalls...stiffer competition...harder referals...you get the picture.

one thing i've read when it comes to keeping things inhouse is that specialists visit dental offices for certain procedures and receive a cut too. Man I wish things were more clearcut some gd say go general some say specialize, etc. From a financial view seems the only thing out there is that ADA thing but even then sample sizes aren't huge.

 

[aggietxdent]

I spoke to an endodontist and he said over half his business comes from failed endo that a GP performed. Either they missed a canal on the X-ray or didn't go all the way to the root or whatever. A lot of GPs don't have the fancy technology that the specialists do that help them better diagnose and treat specific problems. Sure, not all GPs send out their endo and some love doing endo and refer implants out, and some GPs love doing implants and refer out endo. I don't think specialists are going anywhere any time soon.

 

[x0jessmariex3]

one thing i've read when it comes to keeping things inhouse is that specialists visit dental offices for certain procedures and receive a cut too. Man I wish things were more clearcut some gd say go general some say specialize, etc. From a financial view seems the only thing out there is that ADA thing but even then sample sizes aren't huge.

Do what you would enjoy doing. Specializing gives you potential to earn more but usually it also has more opportunity cost. I personally rather do the variety of procedures of a GP, some fillings, root canals, extractions, dentures, cleanings, crowns, etc. Change it up. Even though GPs on average earn less.

 

[Medin2017]

Do what you would enjoy doing. Specializing gives you potential to earn more but usually it also has more opportunity cost. I personally rather do the variety of procedures of a GP, some fillings, root canals, extractions, dentures, cleanings, crowns, etc. Change it up. Even though GPs on average earn less.

true we'll find out what we like in d school

 

[AlecGaro]

If you go to dental forum there is an exact same post

This has nothing to do with this post but your logo is amazing.