Any chance at SGU?

[PossibleDOC?]

Uh did you retake the MCAT and then get in (to DO schools)?

And yes I have friends at SGU with a 19 MCAT, I honestly feel they take anyone. People with super low GPAS are put into a -post bacc program which lasts a semester

Yea I retook the MCAT but the whole point is the poster I quoted said that SGU wouldn't take a student with a 19 I have 2 friends going there in the fall with 18s as a straight admit......I was just responding that it's really not overly hard to get into SGU the problem is getting through and what not

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[kingkapoor]

Yea I retook the MCAT but the whole point is the poster I quoted said that SGU wouldn't take a student with a 19 I have 2 friends going there in the fall with 18s as a straight admit......I was just responding that it's really not overly hard to get into SGU the problem is getting through and what not

Agreed, I wasnt countering you, I know many myself.
It is a business model school.
Theres a few salty SGU people on here, I believe they are actually school reps pretending to be students, but can't be sure.

 

[PossibleDOC?]

Agreed, I wasnt countering you, I know many myself.
It is a business model school.
Theres a few salty SGU people on here, I believe they are actually school reps pretending to be students, but can't be sure.

Oh ok my bad! I wasn't sure....I never thought of the school reps thing thats an interesting take on it

 

[laricb]

Oh ok my bad! I wasn't sure....I never thought of the school reps thing thats an interesting take on it

#1 Provider of doctors into first-year US residencies for the last six years combined. More than 860 US residencies in 2016...and counting*
*According to published information as of June 2016

 

[el_duderino]

#1 Provider of doctors into first-year US residencies for the last six years combined. More than 860 US residencies in 2016...and counting*
*According to published information as of June 2016

Not a surprise that they put more graduates into residency than any American school, given that they accept 5 to 10 times as many students per year as any American school. 50% of them can fail to match and they still win overall.

Let's see them publish how many students matriculate per year and compare that with how many graduates they match per year. Strangely those numbers are hard to come by.

 

[laricb]

Not a surprise that they put more graduates into residency than any American school, given that they accept 5 to 10 times as many students per year as any American school. 50% of them can fail to match and they still win overall.

Let's see them publish how many students matriculate per year and compare that with how many graduates they match per year. Strangely those numbers are hard to come by.

I know when something positive is posted its hogwash but I am suppose to believe you know people that were accepted with 18 mcats,, BULL****

 

[IslandStyle808]

I know when something positive is posted its hogwash but I am suppose to believe you know people that were accepted with 18 mcats,, BULL****

Want to confirm something here. What are the class sizes when they start out?

Right now the site has it at 5,384 (normal MD) as a grand total. So if I divide it by 4 for the amount of years and 2 for the amount of semesters, I would get around 600+ students per semester (this would be assuming even distribution). However, this would mean the number is higher than 600.

http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/medical-students-enrollment.html

 

[Mikkus]

My class had 740 ish not including people decelling in, or the keith B taylor kids. The January class had around 450-500 from what I was told.

 

[IslandStyle808]

My class had 740 ish not including people decelling in, or the keith B taylor kids. The January class had around 450-500 from what I was told.

So the class size for the fall would be around 800 now based on the numbers. Really surprised to see such a jump in the number when compared to 10 years back (I think the fall classes 400-500 at that time).

 

[PossibleDOC?]

I know when something positive is posted its hogwash but I am suppose to believe you know people that were accepted with 18 mcats,, BULL****

I know of two people with no special stories, iffy sGPAs and 490 MCAT (18 on old scale) both heading to SGU this summer.....not bull

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Ran into an acquaintance today. Went to one of the other big three. Had above 240 on Step 1. Just graduated. Asked if they matched? Said they are applying this october... which means no.. they didn't match..... OR... taking an extra year to spruce up their residency app which is still just as deadly.. especially for an IMG.

Could be wrong.. but would any IMGs who know what they are talking about care to explain some possibilities? Person in question was misguided and went to "save time" and is one hell of a bright person but... still.

Sucks and I feel for them.

 

[the argus]

Ran into an acquaintance today. Went to one of the other big three. Had above 240 on Step 1. Just graduated. Asked if they matched? Said they are applying this october... which means no.. they didn't match..... OR... taking an extra year to spruce up their residency app which is still just as deadly.. especially for an IMG.

Could be wrong.. but would any IMGs who know what they are talking about care to explain some possibilities? Person in question was misguided and went to "save time" and is one hell of a bright person but... still.

Sucks and I feel for them.

>2,800 US-IMGs matched through the NRMP alone this year, and I guarantee you the vast majority of them had step 1 scores <240.

What happened to your friend? Who knows.

-maybe they are lying about their step 1 score
-maybe they applied to a competitive specialty without a back-up
-maybe they overestimated their competitiveness and didn't apply to enough programs
-maybe they're arrogant and their LORs sucked
-maybe they're arrogant and they didn't interview well

These kinds of posts are worthless. The facts are what they are.

1. Between 6,700-7,200 IMGs placed into ACGME residencies yearly between 2006 and 2015. The numbers aren't out for 2016 yet, but based on AMG matriculation numbers, they will be consistent. There hasn't been any crunch on the number of IMGs getting positions.

2. Matched US-IMGs have lower USMLE scores on average in each specialty than matched USMDs. The most recent charting outcomes documents clearly show this. Mean step 1 scores increase ~1 pt per year, so you can look at the documents and do the math. The vast majority of US-IMGs are matching with step 1 scores well below 240.


Now to get back on topic. Yes, you have a chance at SGU. Doesn't matter what your scores/grades are, you have a chance. Caribbean schools don't operate like US schools. They will let you try and prove yourself, and they will also not think twice about failing you if you can't keep up.

The best way to figure out if you have a chance is, shockingly, to apply and see if they accept you!

 

[Skip Intro]

2. Matched US-IMGs have lower USMLE scores on average in each specialty than matched USMDs. The most recent charting outcomes documents clearly show this. Mean step 1 scores increase ~1 pt per year, so you can look at the documents and do the math. The vast majority of US-IMGs are matching with step 1 scores well below 240.

This is likely due to the fact a majority US-IMGs end-up in less desirable and less competitive primary care programs that don't demand high board scores to be considered.

-Skip

 

[el_duderino]

740 + decel + 500 = 1300ish?
860/1300 = 66%

 

[Mikkus]

740+decel+500+104 from KBT

 

[the argus]

This is likely due to the fact a majority US-IMGs end-up in less desirable and less competitive primary care programs that don't demand high board scores to be considered.

-Skip

Yes that's absolutely true. But it doesn't change the fact that the people that post here that US-IMGs must "crush the steps" to match, or that say "couldn't even match with a 240" like above, are just spreading rumors that have no basis in reality whatsoever.

To be competitive with USMDs at a specific program, yes a US-IMG likely must outscore the USMDs. But overall, within each specialty matched US-IMGs have lower board scores than matched USMDs.

 

[Mikkus]

I personally know 2 people who did not match with step 1's around 240's, and in both cases it was becasue of poor ERAS planning. One only applied psych, and one geographically and numerically limited himself. I know many who matched with failures and lower scores, but they applied to FM/IM broadly and went on 15+ interviews

 

[el_duderino]

So about 60% of SGU matriculants go on to match. I wonder what percentage of students who make it to the match actually do so.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Yeah I believe they tried matching into psych.

Probably had a shot if they spent their money on IM or FM programs in the boonies.

It is what it is.

 

[the argus]

So about 60% of SGU matriculants go on to match. I wonder what percentage of students who make it to the match actually do so.

For Ross in my year (matched 2015), that number was 70% not 60%.

Over the last few years, the big 3 Caribbean schools have had first time placement rates (i.e first time applicants to residency, including NRMP and prematches) of 80-90%.

Ross specifically puts this on their website, I would assume SGU is similar,
"99% of 2014-2015 RUSM graduates who passed their United States Medical Licensing Examinations® (USMLE) on the first attempt attained a residency by April 2016... 91% of RUSM 2014-2015 graduates attained residency placements by July 1, 2016. (Residency attainment calculated after single or multiple USMLE exam attempts or residency placement attempts.)"

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

So correct me if I'm wrong...why is that Caribbean folks have to apply AFTER their 4th year (after graduation) and then wait to start residency a YEAR later? When most folks that went to US medical schools apply for residency the beginning of their 4th year?

 

[Skip Intro]

So correct me if I'm wrong...

You are wrong. It works the same as U.S. medical seniors.

-Skip

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

You are wrong. It works the same as U.S. medical seniors.

-Skip

Ahh I see. Why is my acquaintance in question applying after graduation (he's already graduated)... which means this upcoming fall? Why do you think that is? Maybe step 3 issues? other paperwork issues?

I take it that this gap year will not look too favorable on their application will it?

 

[laricb]

For Ross in my year (matched 2015), that number was 70% not 60%.

Over the last few years, the big 3 Caribbean schools have had first time placement rates (i.e first time applicants to residency, including NRMP and prematches) of 80-90%.

Ross specifically puts this on their website, I would assume SGU is similar,
"99% of 2014-2015 RUSM graduates who passed their United States Medical Licensing Examinations® (USMLE) on the first attempt attained a residency by April 2016... 91% of RUSM 2014-2015 graduates attained residency placements by July 1, 2016. (Residency attainment calculated after single or multiple USMLE exam attempts or residency placement attempts.)"

SGU states 100% within 2 yrs

 

[IslandStyle808]

Ahh I see. Why is my acquaintance in question applying after graduation (he's already graduated)... which means this upcoming fall? Why do you think that is? Maybe step 3 issues? other paperwork issues?

I take it that this gap year will not look too favorable on their application will it?

This gap year is not a good thing what so ever. It means something went wrong with your friends application cycle. Most U.S. students would even delay graduation (i.e. take a leave of absences) rather than graduate and have nothing lined up afterward (ex. internship or research fellowship). This is not a good move on your friend's part.

It cannot be Step 3 issues since that is taken during one's intern year. There are tons of things it could be including the things mentioned by the argus above. It is not simply because your friend graduated from the caribbean (unless this is some ultra competitive field), it takes more than this to not match.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

This gap year is not a good thing what so ever. It means something went wrong with your friends application cycle. Most U.S. students would even delay graduation (i.e. take a leave of absences) rather than graduate and have nothing lined up afterward (ex. internship or research fellowship). This is not a good move on your friend's part.

It cannot be Step 3 issues since that is taken during one's intern year. There are tons of things it could be including the things mentioned by the argus above. It is not simply because your friend graduated from the caribbean (unless this is some ultra competitive field), it takes more than this to not match.

That's exactly what I have been thinking.... and my friend had an amazing STEP score as well.. I'm talking 250+.

Probably only applied to specific locations rather than broadly. I wish them the best but it's sad to see. I was perplexed as to why he isn't in residency yet.

 

[the argus]

That's exactly what I have been thinking.... and my friend had an amazing STEP score as well.. I'm talking 250+.

Probably only applied to specific locations rather than broadly. I wish them the best but it's sad to see. I was perplexed as to why he isn't in residency yet.

First it was an "acquaintance" who "had above 240 on Step 1" who either "didn't match" or was "taking an extra year to spruce up their residency."

Now it's a "friend" who "had an amazing STEP score as well.. I'm talking 250+" who did apparently apply and not match but "probably only applied to specific locations rather than broadly."

If this person actually exists, and you are close enough with them to know their step 1 score, why don't you just ask them all these questions instead of asking a bunch of random people on an anonymous website who couldn't possibly know the answers.

 

[laricb]

First it was an "acquaintance" who "had above 240 on Step 1" who either "didn't match" or was "taking an extra year to spruce up their residency."

Now it's a "friend" who "had an amazing STEP score as well.. I'm talking 250+" who did apparently apply and not match but "probably only applied to specific locations rather than broadly."

If this person actually exists, and you are close enough with them to know their step 1 score, why don't you just ask them all these questions instead of asking a bunch of random people on an anonymous website who couldn't possibly know the answers.

Because he is a TROLLLLLLL

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

First it was an "acquaintance" who "had above 240 on Step 1" who either "didn't match" or was "taking an extra year to spruce up their residency."

Now it's a "friend" who "had an amazing STEP score as well.. I'm talking 250+" who did apparently apply and not match but "probably only applied to specific locations rather than broadly."

If this person actually exists, and you are close enough with them to know their step 1 score, why don't you just ask them all these questions instead of asking a bunch of random people on an anonymous website who couldn't possibly know the answers.

haha somebody's gettin' a little riled up. chillax homie.

and... isn't 250 ABOVE a 240?

I figured you would know since you are the carib dude who happened to match. Seems like I caught you on a bad day though.

I'm asking because I wanted to know what options does an IMG have at that point? don't most of y'all apply during beginning of 4th year like US applicants? Just looking for possible reasons why he isn't moving on into his next portion of his career.

If anything, if it helps anybody reading this who is considering the Caribbean, TO NOT DO IT!
Do NOT be my "friend/acquaintance" that scored really well on the USMLE and is now a sitting duck.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

SGU states 100% within 2 yrs

LOL so you basically enter residency after 6 years? lol Might as well have just taken a gap year and gone into a US DO program or something and end up in something else than IM, FM, or surgery pre-lims.

or better yet... NOT HAVE GONE TO THE CARIB IN THE FIRST PLACE!

have you guys SEEN the big 3 matchlists? It's like this:

Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Surgery - prelim
Internal medicine
Surgery-prelim
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Surgery pre-lim



psych.


And this is like with 600 students who have been applying after a few times.

 

[Skip Intro]

If anything, if it helps anybody reading this who is considering the Caribbean, TO NOT DO IT!
Do NOT be my "friend/acquaintance" that scored really well on the USMLE and is now a sitting duck.

Anecdotes don't help anyone make decisions. They're like ghost stories. Or, urban legends. They mean nothing.

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

have you guys SEEN the big 3 matchlists?

I copied SGU's 2015 Match list into an Excel table and rapidly (less than 2 minutes) produced this report:

Specialty - Number (Percent)
Anesthesiology - 16 (1.9%)
Child Neurology (N) - 2 (0.2%)
Diagnostic Radiology - 5 (0.6%)
Emergency Medicine - 37 (4.3%)
Family Medicine - 148 (17.3%)
General Practice - 4 (0.5%)
Internal Medicine - 359 (42.0%)
Internal Medicine/Anesthesiology - 1 (0.1%)
Internal Medicine/Neurology - 1 (0.1%)
Internal Medicine/Pediatrics - 6 (0.7%)
Internal Medicine/Psychiatry -1 (0.1%)
Internship - 2 (0.2%)
Neurology - 9 (1.1%)
Obstetrics & Gynecology - 27 (3.2%)
Orthopaedic Surgery - 3 (0.4%)
Pathology - 10 (1.2%)
Pediatrics - 87 (10.2%)
Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation - 1 (0.1%)
Psychiatry - 69 (8.1%)
Surgery - 58 (6.8%)
Transitional Year - 8 (0.9%)

Grand Total - 854 (100%)

(I bolded the top eight, which collectively makes up 93.8% of the specialties their graduates placed in.)

https://postgrad.sgu.edu/ResidencyAppointmentDirectory.aspx?year=2015

-Skip

 

[laricb]

LOL so you basically enter residency after 6 years? lol Might as well have just taken a gap year and gone into a US DO program or something and end up in something else than IM, FM, or surgery pre-lims.

or better yet... NOT HAVE GONE TO THE CARIB IN THE FIRST PLACE!

have you guys SEEN the big 3 matchlists? It's like this:

Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Surgery - prelim
Internal medicine
Surgery-prelim
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Surgery pre-lim



psych.


And this is like with 600 students who have been applying after a few times.

 

[laricb]

LOL so you basically enter residency after 6 years? lol Might as well have just taken a gap year and gone into a US DO program or something and end up in something else than IM, FM, or surgery pre-lims.

or better yet... NOT HAVE GONE TO THE CARIB IN THE FIRST PLACE!

have you guys SEEN the big 3 matchlists? It's like this:

Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Internal medicine
Surgery - prelim
Internal medicine
Surgery-prelim
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Family medicine
Surgery pre-lim



psych.


And this is like with 600 students who have been applying after a few times.

Maybe you should give up detective work

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Ur right.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I copied SGU's 2015 Match list into an Excel table and rapidly (less than 2 minutes) produced this report:

Specialty - Number (Percent)
Anesthesiology - 16 (1.9%)
Child Neurology (N) - 2 (0.2%)
Diagnostic Radiology - 5 (0.6%)
Emergency Medicine - 37 (4.3%)
Family Medicine - 148 (17.3%)
General Practice - 4 (0.5%)
Internal Medicine - 359 (42.0%)
Internal Medicine/Anesthesiology - 1 (0.1%)
Internal Medicine/Neurology - 1 (0.1%)
Internal Medicine/Pediatrics - 6 (0.7%)
Internal Medicine/Psychiatry -1 (0.1%)
Internship - 2 (0.2%)
Neurology - 9 (1.1%)
Obstetrics & Gynecology - 27 (3.2%)
Orthopaedic Surgery - 3 (0.4%)
Pathology - 10 (1.2%)
Pediatrics - 87 (10.2%)
Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation - 1 (0.1%)
Psychiatry - 69 (8.1%)
Surgery - 58 (6.8%)
Transitional Year - 8 (0.9%)

Grand Total - 854 (100%)

(I bolded the top eight, which collectively makes up 93.8% of the specialties their graduates placed in.)

https://postgrad.sgu.edu/ResidencyAppointmentDirectory.aspx?year=2015

-Skip

There are more matches than this, there is also the PGY-2 matches (ortho, rad onc, neurosurgery matches are on here). I really don't know who organized the list on the website but seriously those PGY-2 matches are not all categorical.

 

[PossibleDOC?]

I copied SGU's 2015 Match list into an Excel table and rapidly (less than 2 minutes) produced this report:

Specialty - Number (Percent)
Anesthesiology - 16 (1.9%)
Child Neurology (N) - 2 (0.2%)
Diagnostic Radiology - 5 (0.6%)
Emergency Medicine - 37 (4.3%)
Family Medicine - 148 (17.3%)
General Practice - 4 (0.5%)
Internal Medicine - 359 (42.0%)
Internal Medicine/Anesthesiology - 1 (0.1%)
Internal Medicine/Neurology - 1 (0.1%)
Internal Medicine/Pediatrics - 6 (0.7%)
Internal Medicine/Psychiatry -1 (0.1%)
Internship - 2 (0.2%)
Neurology - 9 (1.1%)
Obstetrics & Gynecology - 27 (3.2%)
Orthopaedic Surgery - 3 (0.4%)
Pathology - 10 (1.2%)
Pediatrics - 87 (10.2%)
Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation - 1 (0.1%)
Psychiatry - 69 (8.1%)
Surgery - 58 (6.8%)
Transitional Year - 8 (0.9%)

Grand Total - 854 (100%)

(I bolded the top eight, which collectively makes up 93.8% of the specialties their graduates placed in.)

https://postgrad.sgu.edu/ResidencyAppointmentDirectory.aspx?year=2015

-Skip

You know whats scary is that caribbean schools can be so risky that who knows how many became victims of poor grades or bad step scores who weren't part of this 854 person match. Just food for thought, they put so many students into residency but imagine the number that don't make it if this is the "small" cohort that make it through................

 

[Skip Intro]

... but imagine the number that don't make it if this is the "small" cohort that make it through................

What evidence do you have that this is a "'small' cohort that make it through"? That is 854 students placed in one year.

Are you suggesting that there was a significant amount of others who didn't? If so, make your case beyond innuendo. Please.

-Skip

 

[raizen91]

The 854 definitely represents the vast majority of the students that are left in the program...the majority of students who fail out do so after term 1...I would say at least 90% if not more match who apply.

 

[el_duderino]

What evidence do you have that this is a "'small' cohort that make it through"? That is 854 students placed in one year.

Are you suggesting that there was a significant amount of others who didn't? If so, make your case beyond innuendo. Please.

-Skip

Well there are the 1300+ students starting each year.

 

[Skip Intro]

Well there are the 1300+ students starting each year.

How did you arrive at that number?

When I was at Ross, there were three classes that started per year: fall, spring, summer.

The fall class was, by far, the most popular and most full. If I recall correctly (this was 15 years ago), there were about 560 students that started in my class. The spring and summer classes (starting in January and May, respectively) enrolled far fewer students. If I remember correctly, the class that was one semester "ahead" of us (i.e., started that May) had about 165 students.

At any given time, there were about 850 students on the island. There was also a not-insignificant number who landed on the island, stayed for a week or two, took whatever portion of their refund they could get, and went home. Those were the "rapid evaporators" who, for whatever reason, just couldn't hack it there.

I've heard all manner of speculation about the disparity between number of matriculants vs. number of graduates. While I wouldn't exactly call the schools forthright in releasing this information, I equally surmise that there is a lot of exaggeration that goes on from the enrollee side, too. Many students drop out and do not fail out, as well. We had Gross Anatomy in 2nd semester when I was there, and I distinctly remember a kid who did well during 1st semester (was there with his family) who said, "this isn't for me" after one week in Gross. He dropped out.

I'm not suggesting that there aren't people who start with the best of intentions who don't make it to the end. What I am saying is that the numbers - from both sides - are frequently exaggerated. When I graduated, there were about 460 graduates. It was probably 65-70% of my starting class who made it to graduation on time. That's just a ballpark. That might seem low to some of you. But, it certainly isn't 40%.

Do I have a way to corroborate this? No. That's up to Ross to be more forthcoming.

-Skip

 

[Mikkus]

How did you arrive at that number?

When I was at Ross, there were three classes that started per year: fall, spring, summer.

The fall class was, by far, the most popular and most full. If I recall correctly (this was 15 years ago), there were about 560 students that started in my class. The spring and summer classes (starting in January and May, respectively) enrolled far fewer students. If I remember correctly, the class that was one semester "ahead" of us (i.e., started that May) had about 165 students.

At any given time, there were about 850 students on the island. There was also a not-insignificant number who landed on the island, stayed for a week or two, took whatever portion of their refund they could get, and went home. Those were the "rapid evaporators" who, for whatever reason, just couldn't hack it there.

I've heard all manner of speculation about the disparity between number of matriculants vs. number of graduates. While I wouldn't exactly call the schools forthright in releasing this information, I equally surmise that there is a lot of exaggeration that goes on from the enrollee side, too. Many students drop out and do not fail out, as well. We had Gross Anatomy in 2nd semester when I was there, and I distinctly remember a kid who did well during 1st semester (was there with his family) who said, "this isn't for me" after one week in Gross. He dropped out.

I'm not suggesting that there aren't people who start with the best of intentions who don't make it to the end. What I am saying is that the numbers - from both sides - are frequently exaggerated. When I graduated, there were about 460 graduates. It was probably 65-70% of my starting class who made it to graduation on time. That's just a ballpark. That might seem low to some of you. But, it certainly isn't 40%.

Do I have a way to corroborate this? No. That's up to Ross to be more forthcoming.

-Skip

SGU has 800+ that start in fall term. 500 That start in January. Add those up and you get 1300. The schools have also become much more stringent about failing out vs decelling vs dropping, I would think this has changed since you were there 15 years ago.

 

[238460]

Well, do you and/or family members have a check book? Willing to take out a lot of loans?
If so, then the answer to your question is an emphatic yes.

With your solid GPA for a school like SGU, and a 19 on the MCAT, SGU will take you straight in, and at worst put you in their Medical Education Readiness Program (MERP, what Ross calls it, but SGU has something similar) first.

you couldn't have said it better...if ur family has a check book...then you are OK!

 

[Skip Intro]

SGU has 800+ that start in fall term. 500 That start in January. Add those up and you get 1300. The schools have also become much more stringent about failing out vs decelling vs dropping, I would think this has changed since you were there 15 years ago.

(Well, I actually went to Ross, not SGU. I can't speak to anyone's stringency or lack thereof, but it was pretty stringent when I went to Ross and a lot still dropped/failed. But, that's the well-known and "dirty little secret" of Caribbean medical education... I'm just splitting hairs with you and others about the magnitude of that "dirty little secret".)

This is all I found: http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/medical-students-enrollment.html

According to their site, that's 5,497 enrolled in the MD program as of March 2016. It also doesn't specify whether they are Canadian, British, Caribbean, etc. (but, presumably, the majority are U.S. students enrolled as U.S. IMGs).

And that's across all years of training. They also list - to date - 13,216 unique MD graduates (with over 850/year for the past 6 years).

That's far from a "small cohort" that "make it through". And that's the point: anecdotes and hyperbole serve no one.

-Skip

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

You really trust SGU's numbers? They are trying to SELL their program. That's like expecting a car dealership's sticker price to be the price you walk out of the door with.

Too much haggle room and made up numbers they pulled out of their ass.

 

[Skip Intro]

You really trust SGU's numbers? They are trying to SELL their program. That's like expecting a car dealership's sticker price to be the price you walk out of the door with.

Too much haggle room and made up numbers they pulled out of their ass.

Well, okay then. That's your response.

I guess we're done here, Detective.

-Skip

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

i didn't mean it like that skip. I actually admire you bud. I apologize.

 

[Mikkus]

(Well, I actually went to Ross, not SGU. I can't speak to anyone's stringency or lack thereof, but it was pretty stringent when I went to Ross and a lot still dropped/failed. But, that's the well-known and "dirty little secret" of Caribbean medical education... I'm just splitting hairs with you and others about the magnitude of that "dirty little secret".)

This is all I found: http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/medical-students-enrollment.html

According to their site, that's 5,497 enrolled in the MD program as of March 2016. It also doesn't specify whether they are Canadian, British, Caribbean, etc. (but, presumably, the majority are U.S. students enrolled as U.S. IMGs).

And that's across all years of training. They also list - to date - 13,216 unique MD graduates (with over 850/year for the past 6 years).

That's far from a "small cohort" that "make it through". And that's the point: anecdotes and hyperbole serve no one.

-Skip

The 5817 students may be published in march, but that does not take into account those from the August and January classes who fail or decel. They can also change what they publish depending on their goal. For instance, if they are using that number to show how many are enrolled total vs how many match, they can choose to leave out those who were entered in the Keith B Taylor program, or those who failed a step and are currently on a loa to study. They can skew the statistics any way they want to make themselves look better in the eyes of potential students.

But, for arguments sake, lets take that 5817, knowing it already disallows for dropouts and has its flaws.
5,497/4=1374.25 students per year. As you said you like hard facts....
1374 students enter AND continue a year. 850ish matched this year, according to SGU's match page. There is a vast discrepancy there. Where did the other 343 go?

 

[Skip Intro]

They can skew the statistics any way they want to make themselves look better in the eyes of potential students.

Or, it came make them look worse depending on your perspective. It cuts both ways. Using your example below...

1374 students enter AND continue a year. 850ish matched this year, according to SGU's match page. There is a vast discrepancy there. Where did the other 343 go?

You do have a point here. But, no one has ever argued that there isn't attrition. There is a lot of debate as to the magnitude of that attrition. Many people (on this forum and elsewhere) will try to convince you that 60% of matriculants fail out. While a lot of this failure, I'd imagine, is "front loaded" in the program (i.e., that there tends to be more failure earlier on in the four years), that simply isn't meted out by what the school is publishing. It also, as you point out, doesn't account for decels, "5-year plan" students, etc.

Nonetheless, the school is supported by FFEL loans and the NY state department of education. If there was collusion or lying, you'd think someone would get to the bottom of it... unless one not-so-secretly harbors a conspiracy theorist mentality, that is.

-Skip

 

[raizen91]

The 5817 students may be published in march, but that does not take into account those from the August and January classes who fail or decel. They can also change what they publish depending on their goal. For instance, if they are using that number to show how many are enrolled total vs how many match, they can choose to leave out those who were entered in the Keith B Taylor program, or those who failed a step and are currently on a loa to study. They can skew the statistics any way they want to make themselves look better in the eyes of potential students.

But, for arguments sake, lets take that 5817, knowing it already disallows for dropouts and has its flaws.
5,497/4=1374.25 students per year. As you said you like hard facts....
1374 students enter AND continue a year. 850ish matched this year, according to SGU's match page. There is a vast discrepancy there. Where did the other 343 go?

To put it simply the vast majority of that "343" are the students who shouldn't be there in the first place...they are gone by the end of term 1 for the most part. But after that the vast majority of the students end up matching.