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Anesthesiology vs OBGYN vs ? Lifestyle/Salary/etc...
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Both of these will allow you to live the upper-middle-class lifestyle.
But I thought anesthesiologists were going to see a significant reduction in pay due to obamacare? I saw somewhere that quoted 60% and if the median salary is around 300,000 that would be 120000.... not enough to pay off loans, have a house, and raise kids and still have that lifestyle
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Where was that quoted and what could that possibly be based on? Medicare rates?
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1. You mean someone, somewhere, told you that the sky would fall because of Obamacare??? Truly, I'm shocked. If anything changes significantly because of that watered-down status-quo-preserving subsidy for the insurance companies, I'll eat my shoe. With mustard.
2. Good money is somewhat in the eye of the beholder, but I have little sympathy for anyone making $120K/yr and claiming that their lifestyle isn't good enough. Sure, you might have to tone it down, for a while, up front, to pay loans. You might not get to move into your McMansion right out of residency. I weep for you. If you manage your money well, and prioritize debt reduction, the upper-middle-class lifestyle will be yours, whether you're an anesthesiologist or an ob/gyn.
3. Now, we can debate what constitutes upper-middle-class; that should be fun.
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This made me laugh. Good one, Glorfindel.
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Both fields are great if you enjoy interacting with patients, being in the OR, and doing procedures. On balance, though, I think they're very different fields.
Lifestyle: Hard to generalize on this one because there is a huge range of lifestyles in anesthesiology and Ob/Gyn. For example, in anesthesia there are plenty of "mommy track" positions that are M-F 9-4ish with no overnight call and no weekends. The pay, of course, is less than more traditional positions in anesthesiology. On the other hand, I know anesthesiologists in private practice who work 80-100 hours/week--and, not surprisingly, they make over $500K per year. There are many OBs in private practice with awful hours, but you can choose REI and have an amazing lifestyle. The bottom line is that the lifestyle in these fields will depend on YOUR priorities and YOUR decisions regarding practice setting, fellowship, etc.
Salary: Again, difficult to generalize but I think anesthesiologists generally earn more than Ob/Gyn docs. REI and Gyn/Onc would likely be exceptions to that rule. The median total compensation (base salary, bonus, and benefits) for anesthesiologists is around $420,000. For OB/Gyn, this number is closer to $350,000. I would advise you to not put too much stock in salary differences when you make your decision, primarily because nobody knows what's going to happen with Obamacare in terms of compensation for physicians. We may all get screwed equally. Some specialties may be more hosed than others. Nobody knows what the effects will be.
Regardless of what happens with Obamacare, it's safe to say that physicians will always enjoy a comfortable lifestyle--we'll always earn enough money to afford a nice house (not necessarily a mansion, but at least a middle to upper middle class house in a safe neighborhood), put food on the table, save enough money for retirement, and get our kids through college.
What the magic number for these creature comforts will be in the aftermath of Obamacare, who knows. But rest assured, physicians will always do well relative to the vast majority of Americans.
My advice: do your rotations, spend some time with anesthesiologists and Ob/Gyn docs in private practice. Choose the field that you think you will genuinely enjoy.
Lifestyle: Hard to generalize on this one because there is a huge range of lifestyles in anesthesiology and Ob/Gyn. For example, in anesthesia there are plenty of "mommy track" positions that are M-F 9-4ish with no overnight call and no weekends. The pay, of course, is less than more traditional positions in anesthesiology. On the other hand, I know anesthesiologists in private practice who work 80-100 hours/week--and, not surprisingly, they make over $500K per year. There are many OBs in private practice with awful hours, but you can choose REI and have an amazing lifestyle. The bottom line is that the lifestyle in these fields will depend on YOUR priorities and YOUR decisions regarding practice setting, fellowship, etc.
Salary: Again, difficult to generalize but I think anesthesiologists generally earn more than Ob/Gyn docs. REI and Gyn/Onc would likely be exceptions to that rule. The median total compensation (base salary, bonus, and benefits) for anesthesiologists is around $420,000. For OB/Gyn, this number is closer to $350,000. I would advise you to not put too much stock in salary differences when you make your decision, primarily because nobody knows what's going to happen with Obamacare in terms of compensation for physicians. We may all get screwed equally. Some specialties may be more hosed than others. Nobody knows what the effects will be.
Regardless of what happens with Obamacare, it's safe to say that physicians will always enjoy a comfortable lifestyle--we'll always earn enough money to afford a nice house (not necessarily a mansion, but at least a middle to upper middle class house in a safe neighborhood), put food on the table, save enough money for retirement, and get our kids through college.
What the magic number for these creature comforts will be in the aftermath of Obamacare, who knows. But rest assured, physicians will always do well relative to the vast majority of Americans.
My advice: do your rotations, spend some time with anesthesiologists and Ob/Gyn docs in private practice. Choose the field that you think you will genuinely enjoy.
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It really comes down to one question: do you want to love getting up everyday and going to work OR do you want to hate yourself and everyone around you?
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EtherBunny gave you some great advice already.
For what it's worth, I actually started out in OB/gyn and switched into anesthesiology during residency. I'm absolutely glad I made the switch, although I did second guess myself for the first couple of years after the switch. I love both fields for different reasons, but ultimately I decided that it was easier for me to be a great anesthesiologist and still have the family life that I wanted, than to be a great OB/gyn and have the family life that I wanted. Anesthesiology is largely shift work and you don't have your "own" patients the way you do with OB/gyn.
Lifestyle: In anesthesiology, you can kind of work as little or as much as you want, as long as you find the right group to fit your needs. There are still a lot of "mommy track" jobs out there where you can work 30-40 hours/week, no call, no weekends, no holidays. But, keep in mind, these jobs generally pay less - the tradeoff for flexibility is less income, so don't expect the $300K + salaries that you mentioned in an earlier post, if you want to work limited hours. For "mommy track" hours, you're probably looking more in the range of maybe $180-250K/year. If you want to make more than that, you need to plan on working more - how much more depends on how much you want to work. But definitely call/weekends/holidays would be on the table. Additionally, you don't have to do a fellowship to achieve this sort of "lifestyle" - the above is applicable to general anesthesiology. If anything, doing a fellowship in peds or CT would probably guarantee that you would be working more. As for OB, the days can certainly be unpredictable - busy clinics, surgeries may go over, emergency cases added on, etc. Some places do employ a hospitalist model, but my experience has been that OB hospitalists have not taken off as was predicted several years ago. All of my friends who stayed in OB/gyn have families, and they make it work, but I think all of them would acknowledge that it's challenging at times, but honestly, it's challenging for all of us. I do think the unpredictability of your days can make it more frustrating though. There are some subspecialties of OB/gyn that have the reputation of being more lifestyle-friendly - certainly REI, sometimes MFM, and gyn only (ie, easier to do quickly if you did a urogyn or minimally invasive surgery fellowship). However, I'd caution you from deciding on OB/gyn based on going into a lifestyle-friendly fellowship unless you absolutely love that field already. Residency is 4 long years - you may change your mind about fellowship vs. need to work and make money several times, plus those fellowships are very competitive and what will you do if you don't get it?? My feeling is go into the field that you would be comfortable in, even if you are just a generalist in that field.
Income: No one has a crystal ball. Everyone in medicine is worried about how the Affordable Care Act will affect them - even primary care providers, because they are worried that it might result in an influx in even more midlevel providers. My feeling about anesthesiology is that the mean may start dipping closer to the mommy track salary ranges, simply because of the growth of Anesthesia Managed Care (AMC) companies - if that's the case, the huge salaries of mega partners in small to mid-sized groups (ie, greater than $600K) may be a thing of the past. But, you will still make a good income as an anesthesiologist. As for OB/gyns, ask around in your area. I know about 6 years ago, the starting salary in my urban location was $160-200 for OB/gyns, depending on exact location. I think those ranges are still pretty accurate. Obviously if you work a ton in private practice, you will make a lot more. I know one OB in private practice here who was making up to $800K/year, but she was literally at the hospital every night - delivered her own patients, had a large OB and gyn volume, was much beloved by her patients, etc. Either way, you will be fine.
If you are really worried about paying off loans, the best advice anyone will give you is to live like a resident for 4-5 years after residency - no new car, no new house, no crazy vacations or jewelry, etc. It's harder than it sounds because a lot of people feel like they "deserve" nice things after a grueling residency, so it's hard to delay gratification for another 4 years. But, if you can stay in an apartment for another few years and continue to drive your old car, you will get your loans paid off quicker than you think. Even with having children.
As for wanting to balance work and children - I'm not gonna lie - it's hard, no matter what field you choose. There is no magic answer to this problem. More than likely, you will feel like you are shortchanging some aspect of your life. People who go part-time in medicine or choose mommy track positions, often feel like they are limiting their professional potential, and you don't get viewed the same as your non-part-time, non-mommy track colleagues, for better or for worse. You may miss out on promotions, opportunities for advancement or alternate work trajectories. On the other hand, a lot of women don't want to contemplate giving up on family and kids just to advance their career anymore. It's not impossible to balance, but I think you have to recognize that no matter what you choose, you may have some level of dissatisfaction in one area or another of your life.
Good luck with your decision.
For what it's worth, I actually started out in OB/gyn and switched into anesthesiology during residency. I'm absolutely glad I made the switch, although I did second guess myself for the first couple of years after the switch. I love both fields for different reasons, but ultimately I decided that it was easier for me to be a great anesthesiologist and still have the family life that I wanted, than to be a great OB/gyn and have the family life that I wanted. Anesthesiology is largely shift work and you don't have your "own" patients the way you do with OB/gyn.
Lifestyle: In anesthesiology, you can kind of work as little or as much as you want, as long as you find the right group to fit your needs. There are still a lot of "mommy track" jobs out there where you can work 30-40 hours/week, no call, no weekends, no holidays. But, keep in mind, these jobs generally pay less - the tradeoff for flexibility is less income, so don't expect the $300K + salaries that you mentioned in an earlier post, if you want to work limited hours. For "mommy track" hours, you're probably looking more in the range of maybe $180-250K/year. If you want to make more than that, you need to plan on working more - how much more depends on how much you want to work. But definitely call/weekends/holidays would be on the table. Additionally, you don't have to do a fellowship to achieve this sort of "lifestyle" - the above is applicable to general anesthesiology. If anything, doing a fellowship in peds or CT would probably guarantee that you would be working more. As for OB, the days can certainly be unpredictable - busy clinics, surgeries may go over, emergency cases added on, etc. Some places do employ a hospitalist model, but my experience has been that OB hospitalists have not taken off as was predicted several years ago. All of my friends who stayed in OB/gyn have families, and they make it work, but I think all of them would acknowledge that it's challenging at times, but honestly, it's challenging for all of us. I do think the unpredictability of your days can make it more frustrating though. There are some subspecialties of OB/gyn that have the reputation of being more lifestyle-friendly - certainly REI, sometimes MFM, and gyn only (ie, easier to do quickly if you did a urogyn or minimally invasive surgery fellowship). However, I'd caution you from deciding on OB/gyn based on going into a lifestyle-friendly fellowship unless you absolutely love that field already. Residency is 4 long years - you may change your mind about fellowship vs. need to work and make money several times, plus those fellowships are very competitive and what will you do if you don't get it?? My feeling is go into the field that you would be comfortable in, even if you are just a generalist in that field.
Income: No one has a crystal ball. Everyone in medicine is worried about how the Affordable Care Act will affect them - even primary care providers, because they are worried that it might result in an influx in even more midlevel providers. My feeling about anesthesiology is that the mean may start dipping closer to the mommy track salary ranges, simply because of the growth of Anesthesia Managed Care (AMC) companies - if that's the case, the huge salaries of mega partners in small to mid-sized groups (ie, greater than $600K) may be a thing of the past. But, you will still make a good income as an anesthesiologist. As for OB/gyns, ask around in your area. I know about 6 years ago, the starting salary in my urban location was $160-200 for OB/gyns, depending on exact location. I think those ranges are still pretty accurate. Obviously if you work a ton in private practice, you will make a lot more. I know one OB in private practice here who was making up to $800K/year, but she was literally at the hospital every night - delivered her own patients, had a large OB and gyn volume, was much beloved by her patients, etc. Either way, you will be fine.
If you are really worried about paying off loans, the best advice anyone will give you is to live like a resident for 4-5 years after residency - no new car, no new house, no crazy vacations or jewelry, etc. It's harder than it sounds because a lot of people feel like they "deserve" nice things after a grueling residency, so it's hard to delay gratification for another 4 years. But, if you can stay in an apartment for another few years and continue to drive your old car, you will get your loans paid off quicker than you think. Even with having children.
As for wanting to balance work and children - I'm not gonna lie - it's hard, no matter what field you choose. There is no magic answer to this problem. More than likely, you will feel like you are shortchanging some aspect of your life. People who go part-time in medicine or choose mommy track positions, often feel like they are limiting their professional potential, and you don't get viewed the same as your non-part-time, non-mommy track colleagues, for better or for worse. You may miss out on promotions, opportunities for advancement or alternate work trajectories. On the other hand, a lot of women don't want to contemplate giving up on family and kids just to advance their career anymore. It's not impossible to balance, but I think you have to recognize that no matter what you choose, you may have some level of dissatisfaction in one area or another of your life.
Good luck with your decision.
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Well played, sir.
At least from my experience with OB/GYNers. Especially during residency.
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the difference is getting into ob/gyn fellowships is really really tough. there's like 40 spots for REI gyn/onc and are all at very nice places, and it's additional few years !
with anesthesia you dont have to go into fellowship
Hi everyone! Can anyone comment on ob gyn lifestyle after residency? I feel like those years are going to be rough, but I don't plan on having kids until afterward residency
When I finish ideally I want to join a practice where I would have flexible hours (honestly that's the breaking point for me.) is that possible? I like this field a lot but for me lifestyle and family comes first and I want to make sure I choose something that would allow me to fulfill my duties.
When I finish ideally I want to join a practice where I would have flexible hours (honestly that's the breaking point for me.) is that possible? I like this field a lot but for me lifestyle and family comes first and I want to make sure I choose something that would allow me to fulfill my duties.
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MFM offers a great lifestyle...everything else in OB, not so much. In general, the further you stay from the OR, the better the lifestyle. You should post this question in the OB forum. You will get much better responses than in the Anesthesiology forum.
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This is the anesthesia forum, so I will offer that the lifestyle of the obstetrician involves annoying anesthesiologists at length at odd hours of the night
Beyond that, I would recommend checking in the OBGYN forum.
Beyond that, I would recommend checking in the OBGYN forum.
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I think you will be happy with OB if you want flexible hours. What other job lets you work at all hours of the day and night? I mean, you can work at 8am and you can work at 3am. All in the same glorious day. And what other job can you have that allows people to scream at you at the top of their lungs while they push a miniature person out of their woohoo. That sounds awesome.
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Im guessing too low?
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Yes, total package, full time, partner in private practice: average is higher.
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Yea I would expect it is higher in PP if partner and taking call, but I understand that those jobs are less and less available. Sad.
D
deleted171991
Way too high. Feel lucky if you get 350 as an employee, with tons of call. More like 300-. Just look on gaswork.
Partnership? Yeah, sure, after we sell the practice to an AMC. In the meanwhile, take the much smaller salary for 3 years of "partnership track". As in the highway is a NASCAR track.
After 3 years, guess what? You didn't make partner, so you either continue eating ****, or you can find another job of the same caliber. That's the future for you, not 420k. The latter is not even the past; for recent grads, it's downright ancient history.
Partnership? Yeah, sure, after we sell the practice to an AMC. In the meanwhile, take the much smaller salary for 3 years of "partnership track". As in the highway is a NASCAR track.
After 3 years, guess what? You didn't make partner, so you either continue eating ****, or you can find another job of the same caliber. That's the future for you, not 420k. The latter is not even the past; for recent grads, it's downright ancient history.
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I believe you, and it's depressing. Would a fellowship or living in BFE be any better? Are there any slivers of hope in your field?Way too high. Feel lucky if you get 350 as an employee, with tons of call. More like 300-. Just look on gaswork.
Partnership? Yeah, sure, after we sell the practice to an AMC. In the meanwhile, take the much smaller salary for 3 years of "partnership track". As in the highway is a NASCAR track.
After 3 years, guess what? You didn't make partner, so you either continue eating ****, or you can find another job of the same caliber. That's the future for you, not 420k. The latter is not even the past; for recent grads, it's downright ancient history.
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But you're applying?
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yea i am. i stopped trying to predict the future and just go w/ what i like. if i end up hating it in residency, which i hope doesn't happen, i'll just switch to another residency.
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Not exactly.Way too high. Feel lucky if you get 350 as an employee, with tons of call. More like 300-. Just look on gaswork.
Partnership? Yeah, sure, after we sell the practice to an AMC. In the meanwhile, take the much smaller salary for 3 years of "partnership track". As in the highway is a NASCAR track.
After 3 years, guess what? You didn't make partner, so you either continue eating ****, or you can find another job of the same caliber. That's the future for you, not 420k. The latter is not even the past; for recent grads, it's downright ancient history.
I will not go into my deal other than to say that I am employed and I am not displeased at all. There is always room for negotiation.
D
deleted171991
How long is your partnership track?
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agreed. Being an employee with a good solid contract and reimbursement can be better than being a partner in a group that isn't on a solid footing. It just depends on the details.
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He gave total compensation, not salary. A salary of 300k correlates roughly to 375k total comp, while a 350k position correlates to roughly 437.5k total comp.Way too high. Feel lucky if you get 350 as an employee, with tons of call. More like 300-. Just look on gaswork.
Partnership? Yeah, sure, after we sell the practice to an AMC. In the meanwhile, take the much smaller salary for 3 years of "partnership track". As in the highway is a NASCAR track.
After 3 years, guess what? You didn't make partner, so you either continue eating ****, or you can find another job of the same caliber. That's the future for you, not 420k. The latter is not even the past; for recent grads, it's downright ancient history.
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I'm curious what you guys are calling total compensation.
I assume that means salary + the value of all benefits paid by the employer (retirement match, annuity, malpractice/health/life/disability ins, bonus, call/incentive comp, expense acct, other perks, etc.)
The benefits can add up to a lot of added value.
I assume that means salary + the value of all benefits paid by the employer (retirement match, annuity, malpractice/health/life/disability ins, bonus, call/incentive comp, expense acct, other perks, etc.)
The benefits can add up to a lot of added value.
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Yup Ildesterio. That is what is meant.
Madjack is on the money.
Madjack is on the money.
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Don't forget to add the employer's share of your Social security and Medicare tax which will be about $12-14k for most employed anesthesiologists.
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Are those extra incentives typically included in an employed anesthesiologists contract?
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http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/...e&isshowcompanyfct=false&isshowaboutyou=false
I don't really like sites like these because I'm skeptical of how accurate they are, but is this a reasonable reflection of how anesthesiologists are compensated?
I don't really like sites like these because I'm skeptical of how accurate they are, but is this a reasonable reflection of how anesthesiologists are compensated?
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Some or all will be. A good employed position offers a lot of benefits, a bad one will have the bare minimum. (Retirement contributions, health plan, and claims made malpractice [vs occurrence])
Both my academic jobs have had all of the above. They say mine are worth over $80k. I think it is actually more based on my estimates and I get a 80-160k tuition benefit per child. Even spread over 20-30 years, that's not insignificant if you have 2 or more kids. Though I do have to pay tax on that benefit when paid.
Both my academic jobs have had all of the above. They say mine are worth over $80k. I think it is actually more based on my estimates and I get a 80-160k tuition benefit per child. Even spread over 20-30 years, that's not insignificant if you have 2 or more kids. Though I do have to pay tax on that benefit when paid.
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I don't know what the "time off" calculation means on that site.
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Yea I noticed that too, seems like quite a perk.
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It might be the value of your "paid" time off. So it lists lower base salary and adds this back at the end.
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Seems about right.
