Anatomy Question

[Aberfly]

Does your school use dissection or prosections to teach anatomy? I am really curious about this. I know some schools have a hybrid system (like LECOM) where you dissect some and view some prosections.
Do people at schools like KCOM (that have a full year of anatomy and do nothing but dissection) feel like they have to do too much work? Do people at prosection schools feel like they are getting ripped off for thier education dollar?
I would really be interested if you listed your school and their policy on anatomy, as well as your thoughts about it.

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[Claymore]

At CCOM, you dissect the entire body, with no detail spared! There are additional prosections of various body parts which you can look at if you screw up your own, or if you are unable to reveal some sort of detail. I personally felt like this was the best situation since you do all the work yourself, but if you are unable to find some obscure ligament or something you can usually look at the professor-dissected prosections which are more complete.


MS-1
Midwestern University-CCOM

 

[Smileyfree]

The anatomy course at NYCOM is run the same way as CCOM. I agree with Claymore that it is the best way to learn anatomy! I loved it, but thank god it's over!

NYCOM
Class of 2006

 

[DrMom]

A full year of dissection would have done me in!

At OSU we had no prosection. We had 2 pairs per body per side. Basically, you & your partner dissected half of one side. Kept us from having to spend long hours in there every week.

 

[smashley]

I go to school w/ DrMom, so we had the same setup.

I really wish that our anatomy course used prosections. I hated my time spent dissecting (mostly the smell) and I felt like I learned so much more by studying the different bodies after they were dissected than by cutting away layers and layers of fat in order to get to the assigned structures.

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by smashley
I go to school w/ DrMom, so we had the same setup.

not only that, but we shared the same side of the same body.


I would have given anything for some prosections!

 

[Vince]

With regards to WesternU/COMP Anatomy...first off....I have to give a plug...Anatomy is one of the best courses/departments at COMP.

You do all the dissections at COMP with groups of either 4 or in a few cases 5 people per cadaver. But fighting over who is doing the dissecting is NOT an issue.

There ARE some prosections, like the pelvis, some joints, etc. But these are for further educational purposes. To show where the structures are perhaps before you dissect out the structures on your own cadaver. More often, the prosections are tagged for the lab exams....if the anatomy professors can't find a good specimen for an important structure, they will use the prosections because the relationships/structures are better seen.

Sometimes, when dissecting certain joints, i.e. knee, ankle, hip...certain tables will be assigned a specific joint....this just saves time....you can just check out other cadavers....if you want to spend the extra time and dissect it out yourself, its not a problem.....(as long as the whole class doesn't do it - which doesn't happen)

 

[T.A.M]

At UHS, we alternate. One half of the class dissects, then the other half looks at the work later. Next session, the prosection group dissects, and the other looks at the work. The only pure prosection was for some of the more delicate structures of the larynx and pharynx. That's probably just as well, since the unskilled hands of MS1s would probably reduce those fragile structures to sausage meat.

 

[Artois]

At AZCOM, they kind of have a rotating schedule. Six people per body, but only four are there on any given day. We did all of the dissections, but weren't necessarily assigned a side. If someone felt the overwhelming desire to dissect somethign they usually did. I usually ended up doing some of the more disturbing stuff, but it was good way to learn it. The faculty had several prosected specimens for the students to look at as well.

 

[PACtoDOC]

I must admit that I failed to adequately take advantage of the state of the art anatomy lab that we have here at TCOM. We are required to do the entire body dissection, but we divided it up among our 5 tank partners. At the head of each tank is a Mac computer attached on a wall swivel, and every Netter image, real image, and the dissector are loaded on the system. We just follow it word for word and it is very easy. Most people let whoever was assigned that week do the dissecting while the rest of us learned from Netter. You can learn anatomy quite easily without doing th dissection, but all our exams were on cadvers. So, unless you are one of those giften individuals with awesome spatial orientation (if you excelled in Organic!!), then you need to also learn on the cadaver before the exam.

 

[djs002]

At UNE there are 4 students to a cadaver and you do a complete dissection. Usually 2 students to a side. There are no hard and fast rules about who does what, you work it out with your group. The lab is separated into 4 "pods" and each pod has an Anatomy/OMM fellow assigned to help out the students, in addition to the faculty. The fellows rotate pods during the different sections. The fellows also do one full prosection. There are also some cross sections and prosections that are preserved and used year to year. Students are assigned a bone box for detailed study of the skeleton. During head and neck, each student gets their own skull to tote around with them for Hamlet impressions and skull learning. Finally, there are "live anatomy" sections of the course where you palpate the living anatomy of your fellow students and get quizzed. Practical exams include the usual tags, cross sections, x-rays, mri's, and occasionally a comparative anatomy tag on some part of a non-human critter.

Dave, MSI

 

[Doc Oc]

I've taken gross anatomy courses both ways, and I enjoyed and learned more from the full dissection courses. I had the prosection courses first. There were about 50 bodies (this was at MSUCOM's anatomy lab), and some were over 10 years old. Over the years, parts get broken off, and we did alot of "imagining" where things should/would be, instead of seeing how things looked intact. I still enjoyed it, but had no idea what I was missing out on until I did I dissection course. At MSU, there is a 400 level anatomy prosection course that undergrads who have had the other 2 anatomy courses (one lecture, one lab) can take. These prosections are used to teach the medical students. I took this course after taking the undergrad lecture and lab, and teaching the lab, so it was my 4th anatomy course - and I learned more in it than I did in the others combined. There's something to be said about seeing everything unfold. I had a better appreciation of fascia, peritoneum, and vessels after dissecting them myself. A couple years later, I started med school at UNECOM and one of my main reasons for choosing that school was their anatomy course - and I was not disappointed. I turned down MSUCOM in part because I knew how their anatomy course was. I wanted to be able to dissect without having it be an extra course.


That's just my personal opinion, but in all honesty, I can't say that my clinical use of my full dissection courses is going to be any different than those who learn from prosections. Alot of anatomy board questions ask things like "Which nerve is in danger of being injured in a mid-humerus fracture?", and you can answer that without even having had a lab. You can read X-rays without having had the detail and completeness in a full dissection lab course. Whether or not you can strip skin off and locate a structure in 2 minutes flat, or whether you just know about where it is and how it will be affected, in either case you'll know enough to do the right thing for your patient.


So for those who, like myself, are anatomy freaks and are interested in attending UNECOM, there are a few other reasons why anatomy at UNECOM is so great:

10) The nicknames people get that stick, like "Slash", "Hack", "Alpha Dissector", and "Anatomy Queen".
9) Each class designs their own anatomy t-shirt
8) The bon-fire at the end of anatomy where anything goes (except shoes )
7) The tradition of people jumping in the river at the bon-fire.
6) The infamous "we made it through the first exam" parties
5) Hank
4) SOSA Anatomy reviews put on by the 2nd years to help you prepare for each lab exam
3) Opportunities to dissect for the anatomy profs when the course is over if you find yourself screaming, "WHY DID IT HAVE TO END?! NOOOOO!??"
2) You can help teach the physician's assistant, nurse anesthetist, EMT, massage therapy, and other courses that come through our lab.
1) Flashing the other pods and streaking through the lab every Thursday at 11:11 am. (Okay, I made that one up! Come to UNECOM and create your own #1)

 

[rbassdo]

KCOM is a full dissection program. We have no prosected cadavers. Four to a body. Some people do more actual dissecting than others. They allow us to work very independently. Lab is open 24 hrs/day. In lab probably about 6 hours per week - on average (not counting studying and cadavers during off times, for quizzes, practicals, etc.) Staff is unbelievably helpful - but only when asked to be. At the end of the year, the class has a "funeral ceremony" of sorts. That way, the souls of those who donated their bodies can be properly honored. All the parts, fat, fascia, etc. of each body are kept together so that there can be individual cremations done at the end of the year. The ashed are returned to the families at their request. I think that's a pretty complete summary. Hope it helps.

 

[The Sgt]

"KCOM is a full dissection program. We have no prosected cadavers. Four to a body."
Ryan, how quickly you forget. There are two prosected cadavers (done by the anatomy fellows) for students to check out if they have any questions. And the cadaver at table 25 is basically as good as a prosected one, since the four students there are pros. Don't sell the best anatomy program in osteopathy short

Love your signature (although it's "curb" instead of sidewalk)
-I.L.

 

[Dr JPH]

Anatomy at PCOM is 12 weeks, full dissection.

There are several plastinated specimens of various body regions that we get to use as well.

There is often one cadaver where certain areas are dissected by the profs in order to better display some of the more delicate areas.

ie: Orthopedic surgeon did the shoulder and knee for us then we went back to our tables to see.

The proctors are both anatomists as well as clinicians, no fellows.

Oh yeah...and the annual competition to see which table can best dissect the inner ear (go Table 2!).

Best part about the lab...all 260 students in there at one time. Great social time. Pretty impressive sight.

 

[rbassdo]

Originally posted by The Sgt
"KCOM is a full dissection program. We have no prosected cadavers. Four to a body."
Ryan, how quickly you forget. There are two prosected cadavers (done by the anatomy fellows) for students to check out if they have any questions. And the cadaver at table 25 is basically as good as a prosected one, since the four students there are pros. Don't sell the best anatomy program in osteopathy short

Love your signature (although it's "curb" instead of sidewalk)
-I.L.

The Sgt,

I suppose you could consider the fellow's body as being pro-sected. They don't necessarily do a better job than us and they do the dissection one day ahead of us. I think there's an argument both ways. Whatever.

Early translations of the memoirs of Dr. R. Madsen DO do indeed reflect the use of the word "curb" in many of his tales. Later translations substituted the word "sidewalk" in keeping with modern english garb. The Sgt's timely reminder of the importance of literal translations caused me to ponder this issue to a very deep degree. After a sleepless night, I have decided to change "sidewalk" back to "curb" in order to reflect the eloquence of Dr. R. Madsen DO. Thank you Sgt.

I need to clarify that along with the fellows, the anatomy staff is in lab as well. It's nice having fellows - who are better able to sympathize with us students.

 

[cookypuss3]

I am JEALOUS JEALOUS of that lucky duck with the Mac computer at every table with Netter fired up and ready to go!!! Yeah we had Netter all right... four years old, torn up, stained with greasy gross stuff, and smelly...

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by cookypuss3
Yeah we had Netter all right... four years old, torn up, stained with greasy gross stuff, and smelly...

That's what we had, too.