- Joined
- Feb 24, 2013
- Messages
- 20
- Reaction score
- 33
Okay so as I put off studying for my final, I thought I would write my first post lol I get a few messages a month from current students where I did my SMP, and from other pre-meds about whether they should do a masters or an SMP. Nothing crazy just my thoughts and rants on these programs that many pre-meds don't consider because of how they're marketed. Don't just think debt is debt, the reality of it is that a lot of you will throw away 50k on a master's degree with no real world applications because of how some schools are selling you a dream. Last I checked a masters in biomedical sciences has no applications besides teaching, there's no lab benchwork that's done at most programs, and them adding on an EMT certification or a Princeton MCAT Review course is a joke.
CONS: EXPENSIVE AND WELL SOME LIE
Here's a quick rant about their marketing and the reality.
First of, Yes! most if not all SMPs want you to finish the program so they have your full grades, MCAT, and whatever else you did during that year to pump up ECs, before an interview. This of course always depends on what your undergraduate GPA, and your entry class in your SMP. If you have a trimester program, you could technically interview in November/December/January which for myself and current classmates of mine seems to be the case at various programs. Most if not all programs that have an attached master's/SMP will have one month for current or former students. I emphasize the former because as I've said in different threads, and has been echoed by other medical students, most won't interview right after their SMP because they still have weak areas. A lot of the interviews that are granted are to those former students that added more onto their app. Most who interview right after or even during already came in with a strong undergrad GPA >3.7, challenging major, high MCAT (>510), and ECs on deck. That's what will get you an interview at your program while being an SMP student early in the cycle. BUT WHY DO AN SMP IF YOU HAVE THAT?
You'll realize that there are many people that come from many walks of life that choose to be in medicine. Some of your classmates will already have a decent MCAT score, GPA, ECs, etc. etc. and there are many reasons why they would do an SMP. Think about this, average age of a medical student is 25.5 years old. So there are a lot of things that can influence those decisions after 3-4 years post undergrad. They could’ve been in a situation where their undergraduate transcripts are older than five years and they want to show medical schools that those study habits/abilities to understand a curriculum are still there, there are classmates that I have currently that were engineers, lawyers, I have two Ivy League MBAs in my cohort who were bankers before this, I have a classmate that was an NP for 19 years before their acceptance into medical school who did an SMP to prove they were committed. I worked in healthcare private equity before doing my SMP and already had an MCAT score from the stone ages. A lot of "second career" people will do an SMP so they can show success in an advanced science curriculum, passion, and updated grades. Point is there are of different students that will be in your class paying a ridiculous fee, so don't think that everyone is there to improve, some people are there to showcase and those are typically the students that the school hopes their marketing reaches.
Speaking of that, is your SMP like many out there marketing a "Guaranteed" interview for the medical school that they're attached to? An SMP showing off their % interviewed should mean as much to you as them interviewing their class of 2004 graduate that's a neurosurgeon and partner at their practice "how difficult it was to match". It isn't applicable to you or the money that you're about to drop. They have a business model dedicated to it, typically only 8-15 SMP students are admitted per medical school cycle (based on my school, Georgetown, Duke, and Tulane where my classmates went). There's around 150-300 of you that are going matriculate in an SMP cycle, whether it is trimester or semester admissions. Let's do some quick math, say 250 SMP students are accepted a year for the past 5 years. Assume 1250 at 100% graduating rate (which you will find out is not a thing since after the first exam around 5ish or so people go part time because they failed it, and then some more after the second exam, and then around 3-4 fail out of 1st semester not joking, ask about attrition rates if you dare. A program can have a 40% attrition rate before Federal funding investigates it, and until it hits 45% they can still be funded.) So 1250 SMP graduates and a generous average of 15 students matriculated per cycle gives you 6% chance of admission into the school based on the data for the last five years. If you look at a school like mine who had similar graduating numbers but more SMP students it's less than 4%. Also again, getting an interview doesn't matter if you're just there filling in the minimum check so that they can claim "Guaranteed". I say this and write all of this because you're thinking that you're going to push yourself harder than before for this, and those numbers don't apply to you. That's awesome and you should think that way, but the real figures should be presented to you as well. Not the Instagram post and Youtube Ads that get filled out constantly right before a phone calls from "admission advisors" that were corporate recruiters at a temp agency three months ago.
Going off of that, I shouldn't have to say this but Yes, you should interview elsewhere (idk why you wouldn't but I've heard stories about showing "loyalty" like that matters to a medical school), yes you should write letters of interest to other programs, and yes you should know that other programs can see this/will find out. Everyone does it, but schools get butt hurt about this, about cancelling interviews, and about already paying deposits and still interviewing elsewhere. It's the game that's played in the world today and what matters is that you get into the best school for your future, not what your master's program thinks of you.
PROS: MAKES YOU COMPETITIVE & MIRRORS MEDICAL SCHOOL
There’s the reality that a lot of people don’t like to talk about, to gain admission into medical school today means that you have to be a very competitive applicant and often that means going beyond honors in undergraduate education and a decent MCAT. There's also the reality that if you have an interest in competitive specialties (Derm,Optho,ENT,Plastics,Ortho,Cardio) that around 95% of those slots are going to M.D. applicants based on the 2021 Match, and if you look at people that go on to fellow in those specialties it looks pretty much 99% M.D. plus they're coming from competitive residency programs. Is it because D.O.s are less? NO NOT AT ALL. But because a lot of allopathic schools are tied to big universities or hospital systems with research money, clinical trails, pharma companies/device companies setting up opinion leadership in those areas etc. and competitive specialties and even competitive programs in primary care want research and exposure to these things. So then the same thing happens when you apply to fellowship. So because of that you'll find strong undergraduate applicants getting a master's or going to an SMP that's tied to a specific school they wish to be at because they realize that medical school isn't the finish line, it's the start of the marathon.
Most of your professors just read off slides, that happened in undergrad, it'll happen at your SMP, and that doesn't change in medical school either so getting used to it makes life easier. Most of us don't even go to class in medical school, the commute is a waste. Some of us dont even watch the lectures. We're grown adults that can read on our own, why have a zombie read outlaid to me. The important take away though, is learning how to learn. Learning how to do active recall, spaced repetition, etc during your SMP will help you during of medical school. I just don't think you should be paying an unreasonable amount for study habits that you could learn from forums or Youtube.
Seeing the material already and playing with 3rd party resources before medical school is also going to make medical school easier for you because you already know what works for you so you could consider that a pro. Especially if your SMP has you sitting in on first year students coursework, you will have seen the material and been tested on it once before basically repeating the year if you get in, and most of us use 3rd party resources so you get the hang of first year experience before starting your true first year.
Getting to know your professors and being active in the medical school community is a pro, they're mostly great people.
I didn't end up going to where I did my SMP, but I got accepted to a great program in my home state. My total cost was only 35K for my master's since I only had to worry about tuition. We could debate on if it made a difference or not because I paid my deposit to my current school during my first semester of my SMP. I still have contact with some of the professors there because of research we're working on and the relationships that we built. I came into medical school already having complained about all the BS, and already having proper study skills for the material because of the SMP. The same can happen to you, but the question you should ask is if you're being marketed a false sense of being a physician one day and going to drop 70K to play medical school hunger games for a master's degree.
CONS: EXPENSIVE AND WELL SOME LIE
Here's a quick rant about their marketing and the reality.
First of, Yes! most if not all SMPs want you to finish the program so they have your full grades, MCAT, and whatever else you did during that year to pump up ECs, before an interview. This of course always depends on what your undergraduate GPA, and your entry class in your SMP. If you have a trimester program, you could technically interview in November/December/January which for myself and current classmates of mine seems to be the case at various programs. Most if not all programs that have an attached master's/SMP will have one month for current or former students. I emphasize the former because as I've said in different threads, and has been echoed by other medical students, most won't interview right after their SMP because they still have weak areas. A lot of the interviews that are granted are to those former students that added more onto their app. Most who interview right after or even during already came in with a strong undergrad GPA >3.7, challenging major, high MCAT (>510), and ECs on deck. That's what will get you an interview at your program while being an SMP student early in the cycle. BUT WHY DO AN SMP IF YOU HAVE THAT?
You'll realize that there are many people that come from many walks of life that choose to be in medicine. Some of your classmates will already have a decent MCAT score, GPA, ECs, etc. etc. and there are many reasons why they would do an SMP. Think about this, average age of a medical student is 25.5 years old. So there are a lot of things that can influence those decisions after 3-4 years post undergrad. They could’ve been in a situation where their undergraduate transcripts are older than five years and they want to show medical schools that those study habits/abilities to understand a curriculum are still there, there are classmates that I have currently that were engineers, lawyers, I have two Ivy League MBAs in my cohort who were bankers before this, I have a classmate that was an NP for 19 years before their acceptance into medical school who did an SMP to prove they were committed. I worked in healthcare private equity before doing my SMP and already had an MCAT score from the stone ages. A lot of "second career" people will do an SMP so they can show success in an advanced science curriculum, passion, and updated grades. Point is there are of different students that will be in your class paying a ridiculous fee, so don't think that everyone is there to improve, some people are there to showcase and those are typically the students that the school hopes their marketing reaches.
Speaking of that, is your SMP like many out there marketing a "Guaranteed" interview for the medical school that they're attached to? An SMP showing off their % interviewed should mean as much to you as them interviewing their class of 2004 graduate that's a neurosurgeon and partner at their practice "how difficult it was to match". It isn't applicable to you or the money that you're about to drop. They have a business model dedicated to it, typically only 8-15 SMP students are admitted per medical school cycle (based on my school, Georgetown, Duke, and Tulane where my classmates went). There's around 150-300 of you that are going matriculate in an SMP cycle, whether it is trimester or semester admissions. Let's do some quick math, say 250 SMP students are accepted a year for the past 5 years. Assume 1250 at 100% graduating rate (which you will find out is not a thing since after the first exam around 5ish or so people go part time because they failed it, and then some more after the second exam, and then around 3-4 fail out of 1st semester not joking, ask about attrition rates if you dare. A program can have a 40% attrition rate before Federal funding investigates it, and until it hits 45% they can still be funded.) So 1250 SMP graduates and a generous average of 15 students matriculated per cycle gives you 6% chance of admission into the school based on the data for the last five years. If you look at a school like mine who had similar graduating numbers but more SMP students it's less than 4%. Also again, getting an interview doesn't matter if you're just there filling in the minimum check so that they can claim "Guaranteed". I say this and write all of this because you're thinking that you're going to push yourself harder than before for this, and those numbers don't apply to you. That's awesome and you should think that way, but the real figures should be presented to you as well. Not the Instagram post and Youtube Ads that get filled out constantly right before a phone calls from "admission advisors" that were corporate recruiters at a temp agency three months ago.
Going off of that, I shouldn't have to say this but Yes, you should interview elsewhere (idk why you wouldn't but I've heard stories about showing "loyalty" like that matters to a medical school), yes you should write letters of interest to other programs, and yes you should know that other programs can see this/will find out. Everyone does it, but schools get butt hurt about this, about cancelling interviews, and about already paying deposits and still interviewing elsewhere. It's the game that's played in the world today and what matters is that you get into the best school for your future, not what your master's program thinks of you.
PROS: MAKES YOU COMPETITIVE & MIRRORS MEDICAL SCHOOL
There’s the reality that a lot of people don’t like to talk about, to gain admission into medical school today means that you have to be a very competitive applicant and often that means going beyond honors in undergraduate education and a decent MCAT. There's also the reality that if you have an interest in competitive specialties (Derm,Optho,ENT,Plastics,Ortho,Cardio) that around 95% of those slots are going to M.D. applicants based on the 2021 Match, and if you look at people that go on to fellow in those specialties it looks pretty much 99% M.D. plus they're coming from competitive residency programs. Is it because D.O.s are less? NO NOT AT ALL. But because a lot of allopathic schools are tied to big universities or hospital systems with research money, clinical trails, pharma companies/device companies setting up opinion leadership in those areas etc. and competitive specialties and even competitive programs in primary care want research and exposure to these things. So then the same thing happens when you apply to fellowship. So because of that you'll find strong undergraduate applicants getting a master's or going to an SMP that's tied to a specific school they wish to be at because they realize that medical school isn't the finish line, it's the start of the marathon.
Most of your professors just read off slides, that happened in undergrad, it'll happen at your SMP, and that doesn't change in medical school either so getting used to it makes life easier. Most of us don't even go to class in medical school, the commute is a waste. Some of us dont even watch the lectures. We're grown adults that can read on our own, why have a zombie read outlaid to me. The important take away though, is learning how to learn. Learning how to do active recall, spaced repetition, etc during your SMP will help you during of medical school. I just don't think you should be paying an unreasonable amount for study habits that you could learn from forums or Youtube.
Seeing the material already and playing with 3rd party resources before medical school is also going to make medical school easier for you because you already know what works for you so you could consider that a pro. Especially if your SMP has you sitting in on first year students coursework, you will have seen the material and been tested on it once before basically repeating the year if you get in, and most of us use 3rd party resources so you get the hang of first year experience before starting your true first year.
Getting to know your professors and being active in the medical school community is a pro, they're mostly great people.
I didn't end up going to where I did my SMP, but I got accepted to a great program in my home state. My total cost was only 35K for my master's since I only had to worry about tuition. We could debate on if it made a difference or not because I paid my deposit to my current school during my first semester of my SMP. I still have contact with some of the professors there because of research we're working on and the relationships that we built. I came into medical school already having complained about all the BS, and already having proper study skills for the material because of the SMP. The same can happen to you, but the question you should ask is if you're being marketed a false sense of being a physician one day and going to drop 70K to play medical school hunger games for a master's degree.
Last edited:
