American Medical Graduate Doing Residency in Canada

[ForeverandEver]

Does anyone have insight into the process and difficulty level of what it would be like for an American medical graduate (and American citizen) to obtain a residency in Canada? I know you have to be a citizen or permanent resident of Canada, but other than that, is it even feasible to obtain a residency?

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[Groove]

Does anyone have insight into the process and difficulty level of what it would be like for an American medical graduate (and American citizen) to obtain a residency in Canada? I know you have to be a citizen or permanent resident of Canada, but other than that, is it even feasible to obtain a residency?

Never heard of it. Planning to defect? Fight your way over the border with a hockey stick? If you could ever pull it off, better plan on staying there for good as I can't imagine how difficult it would be to come back and practice. Also, 2/3 providers are primary care, so if you're interested in a specialty, I would imagine those are immensely more competitive. Pure conjecture on my part, no personal experience.

Out of personal curiosity...why do you want to do this?

 

[Giemsa]

Does anyone have insight into the process and difficulty level of what it would be like for an American medical graduate (and American citizen) to obtain a residency in Canada?

If you were a Canadian citizen / permanent resident and had trained at a US allopathic school, you'd be eligible to match through first-round CaRMS along side all the other Canadian med school grads (e.g. you're not an IMG). If you didn't have Canadian electives for your application, that might be a disadvantage, but there's always a handful of Canadians studying in the US who apply to CaRMS and they generally do well. (In 2011, 22 out of 34 applicants matched in the first round).

http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2011R1_MatchResults/38_Summary of Match Results_en.pdf

As a rule, do residency where you want to practice.

 

[ForeverandEver]

To fulfill your personal curiosity...........LOVE.

 

[mlw03]

Out of personal curiosity...why do you want to do this?

Posters on here almost daily complain about the state of the US healthcare system. I would agree with them, and for someone not wanting to cross the Atlantic, Canada seems like a good option.

 

[Groove]

Posters on here almost daily complain about the state of the US healthcare system. I would agree with them, and for someone not wanting to cross the Atlantic, Canada seems like a good option.

Please don't get me started on socialized healthcare. It's far from any sort of panacea, regardless of our own problems. Forgive me for not being more sympathetic, knowing that my tax dollars go towards medicare, go towards GME funding, go towards paying for your training and salary as a U.S. trained resident...only so you can run to another country after completion without any sense of obligation or gratitude. If socialized healthcare is what you want, then you should have sought your citizenship and training in another country more to your liking. Ironic that our healthcare system isn't a good enough environment for you to practice in, but you don't mind being trained here and having your government and U.S. citizens pay for it, feeling no obligation to return anything for the benefits that you receive. Your residency spot would be better served by someone else who feels more of an obligation to this country and intends on practicing here.

 

[mlw03]

Your patriotism would make sarah palin proud. By similar logic, anyone who goes to a state med school should practice only in that state. Those are not the rules. There are also parallels to a recent op-Ed about women in medicine practicing part time, and the discussions it started. And how about the fmgs America imports? Do you have the stones to say to the face of a Nigerian doctor what you just said to me, how they showed no gratitude to their countrymen by leaving for a better opportunity in the us or uk? If so, you are a person of principle and I commend your devout sense of country. If not, get off your pedestal and accept that we are all "free agents" with the right to make whatever choice we deem best for ourselves and our families.

Please don't get me started on socialized healthcare. It's far from any sort of panacea, regardless of our own problems. Forgive me for not being more sympathetic, knowing that my tax dollars go towards medicare, go towards GME funding, go towards paying for your training and salary as a U.S. trained resident...only so you can run to another country after completion without any sense of obligation or gratitude. If socialized healthcare is what you want, then you should have sought your citizenship and training in another country more to your liking. Ironic that our healthcare system isn't a good enough environment for you to practice in, but you don't mind being trained here and having your government and U.S. citizens pay for it, feeling no obligation to return anything for the benefits that you receive. Your residency spot would be better served by someone else who feels more of an obligation to this country and intends on practicing here.

 

[Groove]

Your patriotism would make sarah palin proud. By similar logic, anyone who goes to a state med school should practice only in that state. Those are not the rules. There are also parallels to a recent op-Ed about women in medicine practicing part time, and the discussions it started. And how about the fmgs America imports? Do you have the stones to say to the face of a Nigerian doctor what you just said to me, how they showed no gratitude to their countrymen by leaving for a better opportunity in the us or uk? If so, you are a person of principle and I commend your devout sense of country. If not, get off your pedestal and accept that we are all "free agents" with the right to make whatever choice we deem best for ourselves and our families.

Patriotism should make any American proud, and I could give a damn about Sarah Palin. Yes, I would have no problem stating to anyone, regardless of origin... that if their medical education and training were provided in part by the government and people of your nation, then you are obligate to provide a portion of your services in serving your nation and the people and/or patients that helped elevate you to the position that you so freely enjoy within society. I'm not implying free service, but certainly an element of mild altruism shouldn't be too unpalatable...to anyone for that matter. No, this isn't a perfect nation, nor a perfect society, but having traveled and lived outside the borders of this great nation, I can tell you that you are spoiled beyond belief in the life and freedoms that you enjoy on a daily basis. The government, as faulted as it may be, that pays for your training along with my tax dollars shouldn't be spent on someone who takes what is given to them and gives to others that they deem more worthy, all for the selfish sense of entitlement justified by a perceived notion that your services would be better spent in another country, enjoying a "superior" health care system and standard of living.

Are you even a citizen of this country? Yes, I have a devout sense of country and I'm joining the Army Reserves next year so that I can give back, as a residency trained physician, to the people that help protect this country, some of what has been given to me. No, that's not something that everyone should feel obligated to do, but it's my own personal way of "giving back". As indebted as we are, and mis-guided some of our foreign policy might be, I'm still proud to be an American.

Best of luck in your Candadian endeavors.

 

[mlw03]

I'm not interested in a back and forth. Your points are valid, but I respectfully disagree with the conclusions about physician obligations to their country of training. I am looking for the best overall situation for my family, and if that happens to be in a country other than the US, I am ok with that. And if it's in the states that'll be fine too.

Yes, I am a US citizen, but not one with the beliefs about American superiority in most facets of life that you seem to hold. America is a great nation, as are a handful of others in my view. I imagine we can agree that our right to discuss this freely is one of the good things about America.

 

[sia_simba]

1. My Tax money funds this country and its my way of giving back. That's me being a patriot.

2. Canada want their students to return because they are in need of physicians. most of their student wants to study here in the US (the IMGs)

3. Grass is always greener on the other side.
(i.e. US has its health care problem, so does Canada)

4. If you graduate from the US, do the residency here. It is NOT as easy as you think to get a Canadian residency.

 

[Groove]

The fundamental problem is that there is not only a shortage of physicians in Canada, but a shortage of physicians in the U.S. which is why we've had the fed involved in U.S. med school enrollment. There are multiple federal incentives in place and in the works to help improve the supply of primary care and even specialists to underserved areas of the U.S. Our tax dollars help fund these programs and incentives as well as help fund the physicians being trained here that will hopefully stay and practice. Perhaps the increase in U.S. enrollment will drive down the percentage of FMG's that intend on leaving the country once they finish their training, who knows. Perhaps it will only leave IMG U.S. citizens or foreign graduates that have a much higher chance of continuing to practice int he U.S. upon completion of training. Regardless, nobody likes throwing their money away with nothing to show for it. We could rant about welfare or social security depletion or any multitude of similar programs/situations where we feel the govt is mis appropriating tax dollars, but I have a hard time just shrugging my shoulders in situations like this where a U.S. born citizen takes advantage of medical training within the U.S. healthcare system, absorbs federal money that my tax dollars contributed to during that training and then turns around and states that the healthcare system is too unbearable to practice within and changes citizenship to practice in another country with nothing payed back.

As for patriotism, we all have our ways of being patriots and I commend them all.

mlw03...just out of curiosity after glancing at your avatar... is that a french wine?

 

[mlw03]

I have no idea. It's not been changed in years. I am not a primary care doc, and jobs in my subspecialty are not abundant. Only a few hundred in the us. Gotta go where the jobs are.

 

[Giemsa]

Best of luck in your Candadian endeavors.

This is the beach 10 minutes from my house.

Canada . . . nice place to visit, better place to stay.

 

[MeowMix]

This is the beach 10 minutes from my house.

for goodness' sake do not encourage more people to move to PEI. Let them stay in Phoenix or wherever.

OP, it is difficult but not impossible to get a residency slot in Canada. When I last looked, there were 1.01 residency slots for every Canadian med school graduate. FM residency there is only 2 years vs 3 in the US; EM is 4; OB is 5; there are several other differences. If you really want to practice there, I would very strongly consider residency there. But I do not know how you are going to overcome the citizenship/resident issue.

 

[tussy]

Definitely apply, especially if you want to work here. However, it is very competitive, especially if you want certain specialties. Also, there are issues if you apply to both the Canadian and US matches. I believe it depends on which match happens first, but once you match to one country you are pulled out of the match for the second. THis isn't a problem if your first choice country does the match first, however, if it's your second choice country that does the match first it is a real gamble. The rules may have changed since i did medical school however, so you might want to ask both matches about the rules.

@Giemsa - beach is lovely for 2 months of the year, however, I did a rotation in PEI in January and it was the most miserable desolate place in the world! Lovely people though. I'm your neighbour in NB.

 

[clifftacopter]

I would highly recommend doing your residency training in the US and then applying for a provincial medical license in Canada. Believe it or not, it's actually a lot easier to work as a US-trained physician in most provinces in Canada than it is for a US medical graduate to train in Canada.

If I recall correctly, most of the provinces have special pathways for American trained doctors to get licensed in Canada without any additional examinations or hurdles (with a few specialty exceptions due to differences in residency length, like anesthesia). Don't settle for the scraps that nobody wanted in the second wave of the CaRMS match, especially if it means sacrificing specialty options.

Subsequently, if you REALLY want to get out ASAP, I believe McGill actually reserves a few residency slots each year exclusively for American citizens (I think in about five different specialties). If you go this route, you actually would place McGill alongside other US residency programs in the US match (NRMP), not the CaRMS. At the end of the training, you would be licensed and board-certified to practice in the US. This would be a good way to see if Canada is everything you dreamed it would be without having to give up the option for US licensing in case you want to go back home.

EDIT: A lot of my information is stuff I've seen elsewhere on SDN and other websites, so you may want to fact check me. I'm also an American medical student who has been interested in working/living in Canada after training.

 

[mlw03]

I'm in the process of dealing with this. US citizen, US med school, residency, and fellowship, taking a position in Canada next year (Alberta). I was told by my future employer that I would not need to retake any exams (ie, my having passed the USMLE will be recognized as will my US board certification). I'm early in the process of applying for the provincial medical license, and so far that all seems to be true. I will add that French language proficiency was not required in Alberta (but would guess it'd be different in Quebec).

 

[clifftacopter]

Awesome. What made you decide to head to Canada, out of curiosity? I've only recently started thinking about it in earnest for myself.

 

[mlw03]

Awesome. What made you decide to head to Canada, out of curiosity? I've only recently started thinking about it in earnest for myself.

Was not specifically trying. Good job opportunity presented itself, and I liked the city. Used same criteria to decide as I would have for anywhere else. Canada did not factor into the equation.

 

[Giemsa]

@Giemsa - beach is lovely for 2 months of the year, however, I did a rotation in PEI in January and it was the most miserable desolate place in the world! Lovely people though. I'm your neighbour in NB.

The OP is speaking of Alberta, so I guess I should have posted this instead . . . .

 

[mlw03]

The OP is speaking of Alberta, so I guess I should have posted this instead . . . .

Is that Banff, Jasper, or other?

 

[Giemsa]

Is that Banff, Jasper, or other?

Moraine Lake, near Lake Louise. (It's about an hour away from Banff.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moraine_Lake

 

[mlw03]

nice. looks beautiful. will add to the list of weekend trips to make after getting up there.

 

[mlw03]

this article puts numbers behind a point i was making in my argument to Groove. the US (along with other wealthy Western nations including Canada) benefits greatly from the influx of foreign-trained docs. As long as the US is willing to accept these foreign-trained docs coming in for better economic opportunities than they'd have back in their country of training, then I don't think there is a moral leg to stand on when a US-trained doc chooses to practice in a foreign country for the same reason, or any reason of their choosing for that matter: http://news.yahoo.com/doctor-brain-drain-costs-africa-2-billion-000805573.html