Other All gather here.. Need your Precious advise..

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So what someone like me can do?

  • Work in non medical careers as I don't like doing research or master/ ph degree careers

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  • Any other suggestions.?

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Gypsy04

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I am IMG who finished a residnecy of Obgyn in my home country I have moved to the state because I got married to husband who have been living here for a quite while. I have average scores and 2 failure attempt in step2. One in step3. Passed finally all USMLE exams. I have 4 publications three of them are here in the state. I have volunteered for long period ( 19 months), in one of the universities and two openings of PGY-2 happened while I was there and they ddint consider me also. I felt I was so insulted so I lift that program specially that they hired Mexican guy who knows nothing in Obgyn just because he finished FM residnecy here in the state. I asked faculty from my country who worked here in the USA university in Obgyn field but couldn't do anything to push on my app. And since I am not a girl friend and will not be - of any faculty so no one want to offer help or even directions or advises! I asked myself why Americans are so cruel human being...!! I asked if I can sponsored my Sally through my university their in,y home country and the agree to do that but no agreement about this too. .! ,

Next, I have been applying since 2011, no single interview was sent to me. I also applied to IM, FM with no such hope ,,,

I am tied here by a child and husband.. I don't know what to do guys please tell me if you were of me what you gonna do...

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I'm not sure why you're insulted that a program didn't consider you for a PGY-2 position in Ob-Gyn since you aren't eligible for one.

The American Board of OB-Gyn requires 48 months of training in an ACGME program; advanced placement for foreign training is not offered. The "Mexican guy" completed a US FM residency which would include some rotations acceptable to the ABOG which is why he would be a preferable candidate. It does you no good to blame others for your failures or to assume that you need to be in a romantic relationship with a US medical faculty to get a position (which is ludicrous).

I suspect that your application is being hindered by the number of years since your medical school graduation (many programs have a limit of 3-5 years), and your multiple USMLE failures.
 
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Winged scapula,, I came here to take an advice and to being attacked by your tone. Even though I appreciate your reply. But, because you are not in our shoes there is always other doors that you might not aware of because simply you have not been in this considtion before.

I will explain to you what the board executive have told me about eligibility to apply to PGY-2 position ... We as IMGS who finished residency back in our home we have right to apply for waiver in some speciality like pediatric is one year waiver to be as equivalent to 3 yrs of pediatrics .. This is very simple application for the IMGS with previous residency can apply to it and then being eligible to get accepted in PGY-2. So the same here in OBGYN. We are eligible to apply to only 6 months waiver then spend 6 months in program as extra 5 PGY-1 until we finish 6 months then fit into PGY-2 empty spot. But they tied the waiver by program director have to apply for someone like me to get it.. So I hope you get what I am saying.

Regarding the Mexican guy, I love him he is so nice and I wish him all the best of luck. But remember when you hire someon the program director headache our head by being more qualified ..so when someon is loaded with knowledge in his field that more eligibile to the position and if I am fair I would have make this waiver for him to get him to serve the university with his knowledge... Unfortunately that's not the case.
 
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It is true that a foreign residency can count toward a waiver of part or all of intern year. I witnessed it myself with a foreign grad who did only the second half of intern year and then started the next year as a PGY-2. That being said, I get the impression that it is extremely rare and that your multiple failures and time since graduation are working against you. You may want to seek out a mentor outside of your current program where you volunteer and get some more advice.
 
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Winged scapula,, I came here to take an advice and to being attacked by your tone. Even though I appreciate your reply. But, because you are not in our shoes there is always other doors that you might not aware of because simply you have not been in this considtion before.

I will explain to you what the board executive have told me about eligibility to apply to PGY-2 position ... We as IMGS who finished residency back in our home we have right to apply for waiver in some speciality like pediatric is one year waiver to be as equivalent to 3 yrs of pediatrics .. This is very simple application for the IMGS with previous residency can apply to it and then being eligible to get accepted in PGY-2. So the same here in OBGYN. We are eligible to apply to only 6 months waiver then spend 6 months in program as extra 5 PGY-1 until we finish 6 months then fit into PGY-2 empty spot. But they tied the waiver by program director have to apply for someone like me to get it.. So I hope you get what I am saying.

Perhaps I understand even less than Winged Scapula because I attended medical school in the US and just went directly into residency after graduating. However, from what you have added [which contradicts what WS posted so I'm not sure if you're even correct on this, but let's presume for the sake of discussion that you are] it sounds like when the PGY2 spot became available you still would have needed to do six months of PGY1 and petition for six months of advanced standing credit. I would think most program directors would be wary to take you because they would have to wait a minimum of six months until you could actually fill their open spot and that would only be if your petition is granted. Perhaps petitions are always granted in OB-Gyn but I know in the two specialties I am boarded in petitions are often denied even among people who have done all of their training in the US (but in a different specialty) if they are unable to demonstrate how they have met the requirements.


Regarding the Mexican guy, I love him he is so nice and I wish him all the best of luck. But remember when you hire someon the program director headache our head by being more qualified ..so when someon is loaded with knowledge in his field that more eligibile to the position and if I am fair I would have make this waiver for him to get him to serve the university with his knowledge... Unfortunately that's not the case.

Honestly the program director in question may just not have been able to wait six months to fill the spot. Or maybe they presume that your waiver won't go through easily based on their experiences with past applications and they just don't want to go through the hassle for something that is unlikely to be successful. Or perhaps WS is correct and the program director knows that the only way you will be eligible for a PGY2 spot is if you first successfully complete 12 months of PGY1 in a US Ob-Gyn program.

If we presume that the logistical issues didn't disqualify you then let's consider that, in my experience, program directors will choose the candidates they feel are most qualified. For some reason, they felt that another candidate was more qualified than you. Maybe if they are familiar with the FM residency this guy completed they may view the OB and Gyn training they received as part of their FM residency as superior to your training in your home country. Their view may be based on anecdotal evidence (perhaps they took a resident from your country or your medical school in the past and they regretted it) or it may just be that they are wary of FMGs in general. I can understand how that feels unfair but the reality is that we all have our biases and perspectives and sometimes life just isn't fair.

As far as what you should do:
-Personally, I never recommend people abandon spouses or kids unless they have no other options. Perhaps you are at that point but I think if you are this is such a personal decision that it needs to come from a discussion with your husband not random posters on SDN.
-You can certainly consider non medical careers. Is there something else that interests you? Somewhat congruent to this perhaps you can also consider non physician careers in medicine.
-As far as options for making it work as a physician. Have you applied to the match for 2015? This is where others can probably advise you better because I think WS's point about being more than 3 years out of school and practice being an issue is probably valid but I don't know how much of an issue it is or how it could be overcome.
 
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Gotta say, RM is giving some fantastic advice. Connected to that, maybe you can consider a prelim position so that you look more attractive to Ob/Gyn PDs?
 
Chicago2012, my residency ends in 2010. In 2011 I start applying to ERAS. No single interview was provided to me any interviews also I was volunteering since 2011. So being out of 5 yrs cut off is not my mistake it is the system that causing this delay.. And I have nothing to do with. Kindly would you tell me what RM means. I appreciate your advice.
 
Also I was applying in preliminary positions every year I was considering these positions also, and I mentioned in my personal statement this but nothing was helpful.
 
RM is just short for RuralMedicine, the username of the person who gave some great advice above. I think you need someone to help you with your personal statement, especially if it is similar to how you are writing here. No offense, but I think program directors would be unlikely to extend an interview to someone without it being written in a proper grammatical style/syntax. Its not your fault, you were not born here. I get that. Also, you say that the fact of your length since graduation isn't your fault but that doesn't make it not be a factor. You also may want to apply to a larger amount of programs/ less appealing programs in order to improve your chances (that applies to both your Ob/Gyn apps and your prelim apps). Also, if that doesn't work, consider other options or network with some Program Directors to try to get help with the process. I get your frustration, but the fact of the matter is that your application doesn't seem to be strong with multiple failures and the length of time since graduation.
 
I have been always the top of my colleagues in medical schools, and my parents both are doctors. As I said before, being 3 yrs out of practice is not my problem it is the system who keep my application off of any invitations. Cpnsidering any non- medical career is not an option. Considering non practicing jobs is not me. I will be volunteering until I get what I need from the system that hurt my career.

I talked with my husband, who considering to divorce me because I don't wanna move on and forget my career. I need to ask you rural medicine, if you think the 3 yrs out of practice is the reason for why the PD is not considering me, so why he did not offer any IVs before I get out of 5 yrs cut off when PGY-2 was available and I was already volunteering and the position were their for over than 5 months without filling. I am very hard working and they keep watching me strugle and when I went and ask him If i can fill PGY-2 he said we don't hire IMGS in our program!!! So God help me I need prayers and I need to see nice people that's what I need believe me.
 
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My ObGyn residency was not easy and dealing with faculty in university residency was the tuff life that may ever may happen to you. So I am not gonna blind my eyes on these days and nights. We were delivery over than 30 NVD per day and over 8 CS daily imagine they want to destroy my career after all of this experience ... , God Help me.
 
I honestly think you need to find a mentor outside of your program. Sounds like they're taking advantage of you. Heed the advice we've given instead of just saying its not your fault. That will get you nowhere.
 
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4 yrs residency in university program
master degree back in my home country
Research project (thesis), collect cases and study their blood samples and their placental tissue for 2 yrs in my life.
Volunteering for year and 9 months in OBGYN. Attending High risk clinics, doing researches. Attending all the didactic lectures
Three publication in the state. Two chapter books and one review article. All published.

... You advise to forget all this..

Only it can happens if I shoot my head.

That's all
 
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I still believe as much evils we are meeting in our rout, their is still angles who have a lot of nice things do to others and helping them. I am sure God will send me one day, that Mr kind, and fair who will make it for me. I am praying for that to happen
 
No, you are not paying attention and I'm thinking this has been an issue. If that is how you are with the program you are volunteering then maybe you need to adjust your attitude. I'm done giving you advice.
 
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Chicago, my ERAS and Personal statement were written by one American faculty in neurology. I worked on my application properly because I know English is not my first language. But the mistakes above is just because I am writing so quickly without reviewing my text back. Sorry about that.
 
Chicago, I got your advise.. Yes I moved on. I stopped attending in this program. I applied officially to other program who have one of the faculty talked on my behalf and will sponsor my volunteering and observing with him. I don't get why you saying my attitude ! What is did to deserve you saying this?
 
I have two options I found to fix my career history: I need your advise in choosing between them

First, I foud university in Chicago agrees to give me rotating internship ( hands on ) for year. I will pay for them a lot of money to do that.

2nd, is European university recently opened in the state, has offered me to take laste two years ( clinical part) as medical student ( transfere) then they will give me medical diploma ( MD) that will fix the year of graduation that I have ? So I will be graduate of 2016.

Which one you think based on your experience is better option for me.


Your recommendation and advise is really helping me.. That's for doing that for us.
 
2 nd option is more expensive, and remember my failure attempts is still there.
 
I have a few more questions so maybe I can understand your situation better.

What country is your original degree from? Do you have a MD or a MBBS?
What is your native language? What language was your medical education taught in?
When you say you were volunteering do you mean that you have been doing observerships? Do you mean something else?
 
My country of origin is Egypt, our universities are top universities in the middle east. My degree is MBBS. I Also has MSc degree ( master degree in Obgyn from Egypt). My thesis research work was on preterm labour. My medical transcript shows my dedication all through my medical collage ( 6 yrs + internship) my grades ranging between As and Bs. my Comulative GPA is 3.87 out of 4. English language was our language in studying and giving our exams for whole 7 yrs or medical collage + 4 yrs of residnecy our lectures and discussion with staff all was runing in English. I have document prove this from my Universiy. I ranked the third among my graduation degree, and the 5th among Master degree. My volunteer was manly observing in the high risk clinic and ANC clinic, only ANC was allowed to take history from the patient myself for few cases and assist in research with chairman and chief of infertility department.
 
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I have been always the top of my colleagues in medical schools, and my parents both are doctors. As I said before, being 3 yrs out of practice is not my problem it is the system who keep my application off of any invitations. Cpnsidering any non- medical career is not an option. Considering non practicing jobs is not me. I will be volunteering until I get what I need from the system that hurt my career.

I talked with my husband, who considering to divorce me because I don't wanna move on and forget my career. I need to ask you rural medicine, if you think the 3 yrs out of practice is the reason for why the PD is not considering me, so why he did not offer any IVs before I get out of 5 yrs cut off when PGY-2 was available and I was already volunteering and the position were their for over than 5 months without filling. I am very hard working and they keep watching me strugle and when I went and ask him If i can fill PGY-2 he said we don't hire IMGS in our program!!! So God help me I need prayers and I need to see nice people that's what I need believe me.

Ok, first of all, you need to understand that it is not anyone else's job to provide you with a residency spot. I'm not trying to be unkind, I just think that you really don't grasp this and until you do I think you're going to have a very difficult time pulling yourself together enough to put together as competitive an application as you can, conduct yourself well in a face to face interview, and ultimately make it through internship if you manage to match somewhere.

As for why you weren't offered any interviews I would guess it was because none of the programs you applied to felt you were a competitive enough applicant for them to extend an invite. I think most residency programs probably interview somewhere around 8-10 people for every spot that they have. More favorable programs (or perhaps just programs who believe they are more favorable) may interview a few less because they believe that their candidates are more likely to rank them at the top of their match list. Programs who have had problems with filling in the past may interview a few more than ten per spot. I'm a few years out of residency so perhaps this has changed but we offered 16 spots in the match, interviewed 150 candidates for those spots, and usually didn't extend interviews to another 350 plus or so. No one had anything against those 350 candidates they just didn't make the cut for whatever reason because other applicants appeared more favorable at least on paper (whether that was because they had better step1/2 scores, whether their clinical grades were better, whether their recommendations or personal statement or research just screamed yeah you've got to at least give them a chance to a program director or whatever). Given match results for us and match percentages based on NMRP data that was published at the time I would imagine that a lot of the candidates we didn't interview were granted interviews by other programs (perhaps even programs they liked on paper more than ours---wouldn't that be a win-win?), matched at those programs and probably went on to be competent physicians.

So I guess a big question for you to ask yourself is if you really applied to every possible program? If you did and you've been passed over for even an interview through three cycles then, unless you have some way to make your application stronger, I would imagine you will be passed over completely for a fourth cycle as well. If you only applied in a narrow geographic area or only to competitive university programs then perhaps just widening your net will get you into a pool where you can be competitive and if you have your heart set on medicine then I think this would be a reasonable approach.

I have two options I found to fix my career history: I need your advise in choosing between them

First, I foud university in Chicago agrees to give me rotating internship ( hands on ) for year. I will pay for them a lot of money to do that.

2nd, is European university recently opened in the state, has offered me to take laste two years ( clinical part) as medical student ( transfere) then they will give me medical diploma ( MD) that will fix the year of graduation that I have ? So I will be graduate of 2016.

Which one you think based on your experience is better option for me.


Your recommendation and advise is really helping me.. That's for doing that for us.

-If the program in Chicago would give you credit for PGY1 then perhaps this would be a good option. I would worry that this may be a dead ended PGY1 and I was under the impression that most states will not license IMGs without completing at least 3 years of PGY so it may not gain you anything. At the same time it could give you a better idea of what US residency training is like, could help you build connections (maybe you would have a good letter from one of the attending there, or maybe as an added bonus he has a pal who is an OB-Gyn PD somewhere who knows).
-I'm a little confused about your second option. Is this a LCME accredited school in the US? If that is the case then this could really help because suddenly you would be an AMG. It sounds a little bit too easy so I admit I'm a bit scam wary but if things are really on the up this could be a great opportunity for you. Having the opportunity to do your clinical rotations will definitely get you used to functioning within the US health care system (which truly is a lot different than many other nations---I'm not saying it is better I'm just saying it is very different), you can identify and correct any knowledge gaps you have and you should have a slew of options for letters and really taking a legitimate shot at 2017 (I'm presuming if you really need to do 2 years you wouldn't be able to get done in 2016 if you started at this point.)
 
Thanks very much to take time advising me this professional advise. I just want to tell you that every year I was applying to all USA Obgyn residency spots excluding the higly competetive ones like Mayo, JHK, ..etc
Even the probated programs, no single IVs.

Regarding my second option, the university itself is European ( international) I will still be in IMG category after two years. The good thing about it, the clinical rotations all through two years will be in American hospital that's has residency spots. This will give me recent graduate (2016) and will show that I ahve good US CLinical experience instead the first option that will give me only US clinical experience. 2nd option is more expensive that I could afford so I will take loan for that. What do you think is good option for me. In both options I will take the same rotations in the same hospital with residency spot first option for one year with rotating internship certificate, 2nd option is two year with diploma certificate but still I am IMGs.


Third option is to go osteopathic medicine all over again, 4 yrs, fix score, fix year of graduation, will be AMG. But I will pay 200K. Other two options is not more than 40k. What do you think is better option,
 
Perhaps I understand even less than Winged Scapula because I attended medical school in the US and just went directly into residency after graduating. However, from what you have added [which contradicts what WS posted so I'm not sure if you're even correct on this, but let's presume for the sake of discussion that you are] it sounds like when the PGY2 spot became available you still would have needed to do six months of PGY1 and petition for six months of advanced standing credit.

This is my understanding. The ACOG does not routinely offer advanced standing but rather it must be applied for and positions must be available. Some boards only allow the waiver to be offered after entry into the residency program (i.e., the American Board of Surgery will not grant advanced standing to a foreign trained physician until AFTER they are in a US residency program as a PGY-1 and then an application is submitted).
 
Exactly. The person I saw that took the waiver was working as a Minimally Invasive Fellow for six months when they moved him into a PGY-1 position for the second half of the year (this is not typical).
 
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Do you have an idea how I can know about the non-ACGME accredited fellowship program because It is also need connections, it's not easy as I thought it will be. I have callied the fellowship programs to ask every co- ordinator about non accredited fellowship and some of them either don't know what that mean? Or they know but they don't have ?
I called one of urogynecology fellowship director and she told apply and we will address your request, as she has non accredited fellowship .. She did not even bother her self to send me rejections after I paid 250$ for her application!!
 
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