Advice needed desperately! Any help much appreciated.

[dumbledore719]

Hi! I'm looking for some advice. I've asked a lot of people I'm familiar with and haven't really gotten any clear picture from that, so I figure this is as good a shot as any. Any help is really, really appreciated and thank you for even clicking this and seeing if you can help!

I'm 23, going on 24 and graduated UCLA in 2013 with a BS in Psychobiology. I finished my degree in 3 years due to some personal/financial issues. I left with a 3.468 overall GPA and a 3.28 science GPA. A lot of my science GPA issues have to do with the fact that I really was unable to take any upper-div science classes in what could have been my 4th year. I was a D1 athlete and this didn't really help my sleep schedule... not an excuse, but just thought this might add to a clearer understanding.

I applied in 2013 with that GPA and a 28 on my MCAT (I know... a bit bold....). I retook the new MCAT in late 2015 and got a 514, with really great scores - except for psychology. Not sure how that happened but ended up getting 55th percentile on that, with bio, verbal, and physical sciences all above 93rd percentile.

I currently work in clinical research full time and have joint-authored 4 publications (5th pending) and co-authored a clinical textbook chapter. Prior to accepting a full time job, I shadowed an MD over 500 hours. I've got a lot of community service hours both health-related and non-health related and have a strong interest in global health and public health so do a lot of volunteer work in that arena. I think I'm a pretty well-rounded person in terms of interests and can articulate it pretty well (so feel like I would be OK in the interview process).

With that in mind - like everyone else here, I really want to get into medical school and plan to apply this round (2017 matriculation) as I will already be 25 if I matriculated. I'm really worried my GPA is too low and would prefer not to take a post-bacc or do an SMP because of $$ and time deferred (another year?!)...

So my main question here is: Is it worth applying for the 2nd time given these requisites and my low-ish GPA? I was planning to apply this year, but as I look through schools and the GPA numbers pop up, I'm pretty discouraged.

Also, just FYI: CA resident, not disadvantaged background.

Really big thank you if you have any advice!!

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[Eccesignum]

That sGPA is going to really hurt you. Have you considered doing grade replacement and applying DO?

 

[dumbledore719]

That sGPA is going to really hurt you. Have you considered doing grade replacement and applying DO?

I have considered DO school, but really would like to apply MD if at all possible.
I had not considered grade replacement, and honestly not sure if it's applicable since I didn't get quite low enough grades to qualify for that? If I'm completely mistaken on the process - please feel free to correct me.

Also, thanks so much @Eccesignum for taking the time to respond.

 

[Eccesignum]

I have considered DO school, but really would like to apply MD if at all possible.
I had not considered grade replacement, and honestly not sure if it's applicable since I didn't get quite low enough grades to qualify for that? If I'm completely mistaken on the process - please feel free to correct me.

Also, thanks so much @Eccesignum for taking the time to respond.

There's no criteria for grade replacement. If you retake a course (must be the same number of credits in the retake) and score higher the second time, DO schools will only consider the second grade (MD schools on the other hand will average the two grades).

As you can see, this is potentially a fantastic thing for many people who start with low cumulative and/or science GPAs.

 

[Dullhead]

There's no criteria for grade replacement.

I think what (s)he means is that CA public schools being so impacted, they have stringent retake policies. UCLA only allows repeats of grades C- or lower. My community college only allows retakes for grades D or lower. Cs may not retake. If (s)he retakes at a private university, no saying if the course descriptions will match.

Edit: These policies ensure that classes are available to those who have never enrolled in that class prior and not have them postpone graduation due to impacted classes. It's a big problem in CA, especially for science classes.

From UCLA's FAQ on repeats (College of Letters and Science)

Can I repeat a course that I received a grade of C or better?
No. If you received a C or better or a Pass the first time you took a course, a notation of "Unapproved Repeat" will show on your transcript and you will not receive units or grade points.

 

[BluMist]

TIL

so... one more reason to move to Texas?

I think what (s)he means is that CA public schools being so impacted, every school has a stringent retake policy. UCLA only allows repeats of grades C- or lower. My community college only allows retakes for grades D or lower. Cs may not retake. If (s)he retakes at a private university, no saying if the course descriptions will match.

Edit: These policies ensure that classes are available to those who have never enrolled in that class prior and not have them postpone graduation due to impacted classes. It's a big problem in CA.

From UCLA's FAQ on repeats (College of Letters and Science)

Can I repeat a course that I received a grade of C or better?
No. If you received a C or better or a Pass the first time you took a course, a notation of "Unapproved Repeat" will show on your transcript and you will not receive units or grade points.

 

[Dullhead]

TIL

so... one more reason to move to Texas?

Absolutely. Doo eet.

 

[dumbledore719]

TIL

so... one more reason to move to Texas?

I think what (s)he means is that CA public schools being so impacted, they have stringent retake policies. UCLA only allows repeats of grades C- or lower. My community college only allows retakes for grades D or lower. Cs may not retake. If (s)he retakes at a private university, no saying if the course descriptions will match.

Edit: These policies ensure that classes are available to those who have never enrolled in that class prior and not have them postpone graduation due to impacted classes. It's a big problem in CA, especially for science classes.

From UCLA's FAQ on repeats (College of Letters and Science)

Can I repeat a course that I received a grade of C or better?
No. If you received a C or better or a Pass the first time you took a course, a notation of "Unapproved Repeat" will show on your transcript and you will not receive units or grade points.

Yes- that was my main problem. Didn't receive a low enough grade for this to apply :/

 

[dumbledore719]

TIL

so... one more reason to move to Texas?

Born and raised in Texas! But..... CA residency now bleh...

 

[CyrilFiggis]

@dumbledore719 some quick thoughts and comment:

1) Have you considered a Masters Program? If you are working in a clinical research, odds are there should be an affiliated school involved? You can probably still make it for next year or Spring admin.

2) don't worry about your MCAT. The score is strong enough. There are three ranges of scores, unacceptable, within range, and "well **** let's take a look at this stud".

3) I'm matriculating this fall and will be 30. I'm married and have a kid on the way. Don't be concerned about "already being 25". I'm not saying this to be agist, but I started my transition when I was 25 and took my time to do it right and now I'm going to be a doctor. If that's your goal, don't rush it because you think you're getting old.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Hi! I'm looking for some advice. I've asked a lot of people I'm familiar with and haven't really gotten any clear picture from that, so I figure this is as good a shot as any. Any help is really, really appreciated and thank you for even clicking this and seeing if you can help!

I'm 23, going on 24 and graduated UCLA in 2013 with a BS in Psychobiology. I finished my degree in 3 years due to some personal/financial issues. I left with a 3.468 overall GPA and a 3.28 science GPA. A lot of my science GPA issues have to do with the fact that I really was unable to take any upper-div science classes in what could have been my 4th year. I was a D1 athlete and this didn't really help my sleep schedule... not an excuse, but just thought this might add to a clearer understanding.

I applied in 2013 with that GPA and a 28 on my MCAT (I know... a bit bold....). I retook the new MCAT in late 2015 and got a 514, with really great scores - except for psychology. Not sure how that happened but ended up getting 55th percentile on that, with bio, verbal, and physical sciences all above 93rd percentile.

I currently work in clinical research full time and have joint-authored 4 publications (5th pending) and co-authored a clinical textbook chapter. Prior to accepting a full time job, I shadowed an MD over 500 hours. I've got a lot of community service hours both health-related and non-health related and have a strong interest in global health and public health so do a lot of volunteer work in that arena. I think I'm a pretty well-rounded person in terms of interests and can articulate it pretty well (so feel like I would be OK in the interview process).

With that in mind - like everyone else here, I really want to get into medical school and plan to apply this round (2017 matriculation) as I will already be 25 if I matriculated. I'm really worried my GPA is too low and would prefer not to take a post-bacc or do an SMP because of $$ and time deferred (another year?!)...

So my main question here is: Is it worth applying for the 2nd time given these requisites and my low-ish GPA? I was planning to apply this year, but as I look through schools and the GPA numbers pop up, I'm pretty discouraged.

Also, just FYI: CA resident, not disadvantaged background.

Really big thank you if you have any advice!!

You need to make the best application you can. If that takes an extra year, so be it. 25 is not too old to start medical school by any means. At my school, the average age on matriculation was 26. While you may not want to go DO, that may be what you're looking at. These other ECs and publications can certainly help and your MCAT is great, but the sGPA is still low. Consider additional science classes to raise that GPA if you don't want grade replacement and be ready to consider DO if the next round of MD applications don't find you success.

 

[DrMidlife]

Hi! I'm looking for some advice. I've asked a lot of people I'm familiar with and haven't really gotten any clear picture from that, so I figure this is as good a shot as any. Any help is really, really appreciated and thank you for even clicking this and seeing if you can help!

I'm 23, going on 24 and graduated UCLA in 2013 with a BS in Psychobiology. I finished my degree in 3 years due to some personal/financial issues. I left with a 3.468 overall GPA and a 3.28 science GPA. A lot of my science GPA issues have to do with the fact that I really was unable to take any upper-div science classes in what could have been my 4th year. I was a D1 athlete and this didn't really help my sleep schedule... not an excuse, but just thought this might add to a clearer understanding.

I applied in 2013 with that GPA and a 28 on my MCAT (I know... a bit bold....). I retook the new MCAT in late 2015 and got a 514, with really great scores - except for psychology. Not sure how that happened but ended up getting 55th percentile on that, with bio, verbal, and physical sciences all above 93rd percentile.

I currently work in clinical research full time and have joint-authored 4 publications (5th pending) and co-authored a clinical textbook chapter. Prior to accepting a full time job, I shadowed an MD over 500 hours. I've got a lot of community service hours both health-related and non-health related and have a strong interest in global health and public health so do a lot of volunteer work in that arena. I think I'm a pretty well-rounded person in terms of interests and can articulate it pretty well (so feel like I would be OK in the interview process).

With that in mind - like everyone else here, I really want to get into medical school and plan to apply this round (2017 matriculation) as I will already be 25 if I matriculated. I'm really worried my GPA is too low and would prefer not to take a post-bacc or do an SMP because of $$ and time deferred (another year?!)...

So my main question here is: Is it worth applying for the 2nd time given these requisites and my low-ish GPA? I was planning to apply this year, but as I look through schools and the GPA numbers pop up, I'm pretty discouraged.

Also, just FYI: CA resident, not disadvantaged background.

Really big thank you if you have any advice!!

Only answering this because you're the first person in years to use "desperately" correctly in a cry-for-help thread title. Usually people are looking for desperate help and I'm not desperate, so...

I suggest that worrying about your age is an overreaction to whatever pressures made you finish college in 3 years. Whoever is telling you to run the amortization on lost income if you take (gasp) another year before starting med school, frankly that person needs to go outside and breathe some fresh air and unclench some sphincters. You've been extremely productive since college, and those years count. You are not yet in great shape to apply to med school, and taking more time to prepare to apply will directly affect your chances of (a) getting into a school you'll like and (b) staying in California.

If getting into a UC is the big fat goal here, which it should be, then the classic recovery move is to do one of the 2 year SMPs, such as Boston or Tufts, and apply MD after successfully completing the first year. See the postbac forum down under interdisciplinary to find your fellow thousand Californians who are figuring this out right now. Apps are open and you should get on it if you like this idea. There are several configurations of SMPs but as you do research focus on whether opinions are coming from Californians or not, and whether they're coming from unwashed mouthy low GPA premeds or from people who actually succeeded (rare). I'm only suggesting that you target the two year SMPs in order to have a slightly more predictable premed schedule, vs. doing Loyola/Gtown/Cincy/etc and having to move cross country up to 3 times before starting med school. You are a perfect SMP candidate, because your GPAs aren't too damned low and your MCAT is nice and high, and a killer year in classes with med students would really sell me on you as a legitimate fighter of a candidate vs. cookie cutters who came in squeaky clean and well-parented.

If an SMP is off the table, and DO is also off the table, then you have to choose between either saving money or saving time. You don't get both. If saving money is more important, then you have to be your own adult supervision and let go of the calendar. One method is to get an on-campus job that gives you tuition and registration help, and take 2-3 classes per term in a DIY postbac. As a med school app reviewer, this is a more difficult narrative to digest, but it can work.

If starting med school 18 months from now is your big fat goal, then apply DO and be done with it.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Addendum: while most suggestions are pushing you to take more time, it's a priority to protect your MCAT score, which "expires" in 3 years. Exactly what that means is subject to interpretation, but I suggest applying no later than June 2018.

 

[dumbledore719]

@dumbledore719 some quick thoughts and comment:

1) Have you considered a Masters Program? If you are working in a clinical research, odds are there should be an affiliated school involved? You can probably still make it for next year or Spring admin.

2) don't worry about your MCAT. The score is strong enough. There are three ranges of scores, unacceptable, within range, and "well **** let's take a look at this stud".

3) I'm matriculating this fall and will be 30. I'm married and have a kid on the way. Don't be concerned about "already being 25". I'm not saying this to be agist, but I started my transition when I was 25 and took my time to do it right and now I'm going to be a doctor. If that's your goal, don't rush it because you think you're getting old.

I had considered it - no affiliated school with a Masters program (there is a PhD program), but not a deep consideration.
Sounded ageist on my end - my bad. It is my goal and I'm trying not to rush it! It's a work in progress for me.
Thanks for responding, these are great considerations and best of luck to you!! Congrats on matriculating.

 

[dumbledore719]

You need to make the best application you can. If that takes an extra year, so be it. 25 is not too old to start medical school by any means. At my school, the average age on matriculation was 26. While you may not want to go DO, that may be what you're looking at. These other ECs and publications can certainly help and your MCAT is great, but the sGPA is still low. Consider additional science classes to raise that GPA if you don't want grade replacement and be ready to consider DO if the next round of MD applications don't find you success.

Definitely - I agree. I think I needed this type of forum from those that don't know me to lay it out like that for me. I'm looking into extension classes at UCLA and Berkeley. Thanks for the response.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Definitely - I agree. I think I needed this type of forum from those that don't know me to lay it out like that for me. I'm looking into extension classes at UCLA and Berkeley. Thanks for the response.

@DrMidlife made a great point about the SMP programs. I would seriously consider those as well. However if you do a SMP program and perform poorly, that will likely sink your application... so do well!

 

[dumbledore719]

Only answering this because you're the first person in years to use "desperately" correctly in a cry-for-help thread title. Usually people are looking for desperate help and I'm not desperate, so...

I suggest that worrying about your age is an overreaction to whatever pressures made you finish college in 3 years. Whoever is telling you to run the amortization on lost income if you take (gasp) another year before starting med school, frankly that person needs to go outside and breathe some fresh air and unclench some sphincters. You've been extremely productive since college, and those years count. You are not yet in great shape to apply to med school, and taking more time to prepare to apply will directly affect your chances of (a) getting into a school you'll like and (b) staying in California.

If getting into a UC is the big fat goal here, which it should be, then the classic recovery move is to do one of the 2 year SMPs, such as Boston or Tufts, and apply MD after successfully completing the first year. See the postbac forum down under interdisciplinary to find your fellow thousand Californians who are figuring this out right now. Apps are open and you should get on it if you like this idea. There are several configurations of SMPs but as you do research focus on whether opinions are coming from Californians or not, and whether they're coming from unwashed mouthy low GPA premeds or from people who actually succeeded (rare). I'm only suggesting that you target the two year SMPs in order to have a slightly more predictable premed schedule, vs. doing Loyola/Gtown/Cincy/etc and having to move cross country up to 3 times before starting med school. You are a perfect SMP candidate, because your GPAs aren't too damned low and your MCAT is nice and high, and a killer year in classes with med students would really sell me on you as a legitimate fighter of a candidate vs. cookie cutters who came in squeaky clean and well-parented.

If an SMP is off the table, and DO is also off the table, then you have to choose between either saving money or saving time. You don't get both. If saving money is more important, then you have to be your own adult supervision and let go of the calendar. One method is to get an on-campus job that gives you tuition and registration help, and take 2-3 classes per term in a DIY postbac. As a med school app reviewer, this is a more difficult narrative to digest, but it can work.

If starting med school 18 months from now is your big fat goal, then apply DO and be done with it.

Best of luck to you.

Desperate might have been a stretch, but I'm definitely at some sort of crossroads. And hey, I got you to come by !
Sphincters unclenched - and I hear you on this one. If I really could have done things differently it would have been to bite the bullet and pay for one more year at school, but unfortunately I can't. Side-note: Not opposed to going out of state.

Thanks for advice. Definitely giving me a lot to think about and both are really helpful answers.

 

[Eccesignum]

I think what (s)he means is that CA public schools being so impacted, they have stringent retake policies. UCLA only allows repeats of grades C- or lower. My community college only allows retakes for grades D or lower. Cs may not retake. If (s)he retakes at a private university, no saying if the course descriptions will match.

Edit: These policies ensure that classes are available to those who have never enrolled in that class prior and not have them postpone graduation due to impacted classes. It's a big problem in CA, especially for science classes.

TIL

TIL x 2, thanks for the info.

 

[dumbledore719]

Hi everyone! Not sure if anyone at all can even see this thread - but just thought I would share for anyone who stumbled in because they may have had a similar experience: I got into a US MD school for this application cycle (although not in CA). I didn't apply DO or to SMP programs. Just wanted to be encouraging to anyone who may have been in the same boat. Good luck everyone