Advice going forward

[AM1234567]

Hi,
This is my first post on this website as you all seem to have varying ideas for the chances of a prospecting MD or DO student, so I am just going to lay it out all on the line. I know this site is a little cutthroat but please don't spare any feelings, I need a realistic idea of what to do going forward as my pre-med advisor isn't worth the toilet paper I wipe my ass with. I know the whole "help me low gpa" is super cliche but without much guidance, the path is much harder to conquer.

I got into a decent to good private school (around rank 50) with an SAT of 2000+, and I am currently midway through my sophomore year. As of now, here is my transcript.

2.99 GPA Math Science about 2.8 or 2.9

Major: Statistics with minor In Chem

Semester 1
English B+
Stat 1 A
Sociology B-
Persian A
Bio D+

Semester 2
Stat 2 A
Persian B+
Calc 1 A-
Bio C
Psychology C

Semester 3
Chem 1 B+
Bio Psych B
Physics C+
Medical scribe course B (about 50 clinical hours at the school hospital was included, great class)

Semester 4 TBA

Physics 2
Chem 2
Calc 2
Regression Statistics
Communication

Summer 1

Worked at the neighborhood Pharmacy
Shadowed a Resident at a medstar hospital in Maryland for 2 days

School Involvement
Club Soccer 2 years
Fraternity 2 years (Rush Chair)
Statistics Tutor
Medical Fraternity (likely to rush this week)

I plan on taking orgo 1 in the summer and orgo 2 next fall, as well as definitely retaking bio 1 and 2 in my junior year. I am also volunteering at a hospital in costa rica this spring break for a week.

My opinion:

As a freshman, I spent a lot of time getting wasted instead of opening my bio textbook. I had a great time, which I really wanted to do like most freshman, but my GPA clearly did not. I really wish I had a mulligan that year, but unlike most of the kids I spend time with, who are typically in the business school, I really don't and did not have the luxury of screwing around my freshman year. I took 3 full years of biology in high school ( honors bio, then Molecular Bio, then AP Bio), but somehow decided I could float by in college bio. In college its just a whole different ball game.

My strengths: good grades in chemistry and Stat/Calc courses. I am taking chem 2 now and expect to get an A or A-. Did solid in the english course.

Weaknesses: The 2 bio grades are killing both gpas at this point. Intro psych I took with the worst possible professor, so I took bio psych to show I know more than a C level in psych. Considering retaking intro as well at some point and get an A, with a much easier professor.

It looks like in all honesty, that even getting a B or higher in both orgos, and retaking bio 1 and 2 and getting a B+ or higher, which I believe I will do, I will likely have to take a post bacc program to get into a US MD school.
Even with a solid 30+ MCAT It still seems unlikely. My hardest courses are ahead of me, so even with a good solid gpa ~3.5 from here on out, it would stick me hovering around the 3.2-3.3 mark by admission time. And again, this GPA could be all hypothetical. I have never been a grade motivated person, especially in courses I did not find interesting. I don't know what lies ahead.

I am approaching a very critical year ahead of me, with both orgos, a chem, retake of bio, and an MCAT to go. However, I feel like the gpa is going to keep me out of the dance. I am rather confident I can do well on the MCAT. The statistics on average MCAT scores for math/stat majors, as well as my test taking ability, favors me to do well and get a solid 30+ score.

What I am asking you all is, What do I do going forward. My goal for this semester was to jut focus on my gpa (I have been on a lot of credits every semester), but I need a bigger picture, a larger goal. I have yet to look for mcat prep, as well as major research, volunteer, or clinical opportunities. My gpa has dug me a hole, and I need to make up for it in other areas, which I really have not done. I am involved socially and athletically but thats really all Ive got going for me.

Any advice would be appreciated, I am open to applying to DO or Carribean-American residency schools, but I would prefer and US MD program.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[AM1234567]

See above

 

[DrMikeP]

Advice:

1. Write shorter explanations, so someone doesn't give up reading and trying to figure out what you are asking?

2. Don't do Caribbean.

 

[HotandCold]

First, I understand it takes a lot to put yourself out there and I can appreciate that you've come here for advice. So I'll try my best to address you concerns.

Even with a solid 30+ MCAT It still seems unlikely. My hardest courses are ahead of me, so even with a good solid gpa ~3.5 from here on out, it would stick me hovering around the 3.2-3.3 mark by admission time. And again, this GPA could be all hypothetical. I have never been a grade motivated person, especially in courses I did not find interesting.

So, just looking at your grades you've got a lot of work ahead of you, and it looks like you understand that. But you might want to do some soul searching. Don't think ahead too far - up there, it says "I have never been a grade motivated person, especially in courses I did not find interesting." - that's a problem. Undergrad studies are effectively as difficult as quizzes in the back of teen-geared magazines compared to medical school. Medicine is an excruciatingly academic field. Where your confidence of getting a 30 on the MCAT comes from (which isn't even a grade anymore, I think), I've got no clue. That's something you need to prove to yourself - you're not taking an SAT, and this isn't highschool anymore. Ask yourself if YOU are academic. Ask yourself why you want to be a physician- and if it's worth it. The way your transcript looks, unless you preform some sort of a miracle (and I'm sure many have) most US MD schools aren't going to bat an eyelash at you - or even offer a post bac. You haven't shown an upward trend yet- if this is something you want to do, I sincerely hope you do. It's not only your bio grades killing you - even throw away courses (no offense to anyone) like intro to sociology, you've got a B- in. And getting an A in statistics is promising - but that's not exactly what'll carry you through the MCAT. Or life. You need to totally revamp everything.

You seem like you've got a fair handle on extracurriculars. I wouldn't do anymore. I'd probably even stop, till I got academically stable. You shouldn't do research unless your grades go up. No ones cares how much you liked pipetting when you're a C/D student.

Intro psych I took with the worst possible professor, so I took bio psych to show I know more than a C level in psych.

Never blame the professor. This would be easier to believe if you didn't get a C in bio too. I know some professors are harder than others - but to be honest, when you're in medical school, they're always "bad" by undergrad standards. Just step up to it, take the blame, and do better next time.

am open to applying to DO or Carribean-American residency schools, but I would prefer and US MD program.

No offense- it's not really pertinent what you prefer. DO schools generally replace your courses (this should still be happening) and there are some schools that do take lower-tier applicants. That's a viable option if you bump those science grades up. DOs are doing very well - I'm in my last year of med school, and doing the NRMP match, and I've interviewed at plenty of prestigious places for residency.

At this point, going to the Caribbean is a pretty terrible idea for anyone. Unless you don't mind being jobless.

This is going to take longer than you expect - especially with all the courses you want to retake. And I sincerely doubt that you'll be taking the MCAT anytime soon. That's just a bit of anecdotal insight I have from seeing people in situations like yours - but you could very well prove me wrong.

Good luck : )

 

[Meeehai]

Those grades are not gonna cut it. I would find an opportunity to retake the bio and physics to improve those grades to As. Your old grades will still show up alongside your retakes, but at least you can make a case that college was a learning experience for you and you got your act together as you got older. Other than that the only thing you can do is learn why you're getting poor grades and improve your performance in class. There are a lot of people that get wasted in undergrad and get As in their hardest classes - I think something is wrong with the way you study or the time you put into studying.

Try your best and what happens... happens. I think a lot of undergrads make the mistake of not exploring other career options and putting all their eggs in one basket. You have a good shot at medical school if you get your GPA to 3.3+ by application time and ensure the other parts of your app are strong. Good luck.

 

[Dr. Death]

First off it seems like you are a mature and honest person. So here's my advice. If you want to go to med school you need to make some sacrifices. You know what you waste time on better than I do. So you need to better manage your time. Set aside a few hours a week for a volunteer project. Make a goal to get into a research lab this summer and make plans on how to do so. Shadow physicians on during the summer or winter breaks until you get about 40 - 50 hours and then stop. Don't worry about the MCAT just yet. Just get some meaningful experiences and learn how to get A's for now.

 

[SnakeDoc9497]

Those grades are not gonna cut it. I would find an opportunity to retake the bio and physics to improve those grades to As. Your old grades will still show up alongside your retakes, but at least you can make a case that college was a learning experience for you and you got your act together as you got older. Other than that the only thing you can do is learn why you're getting poor grades and improve your performance in class. There are a lot of people that get wasted in undergrad and get As in their hardest classes - I think something is wrong with the way you study or the time you put into studying.

Try your best and what happens... happens. I think a lot of undergrads make the mistake of not exploring other career options and putting all their eggs in one basket. You have a good shot at medical school if you get your GPA to 3.3+ by application time and ensure the other parts of your app are strong. Good luck.

OP, @Meeehai said it best. There is no reason to write off being a doc just yet. You certainly have time to repair those mistakes and show everyone (most importantly, yourself) that you can be and are better than that. you just have to work at it. Talk with your professors and find out what is wrong. Like Meeehai suggested, it seems to be the way you study for sciences specifically, because your non-science grades seem to be decent.

I am a firm believer in the idea that if someone wants to be a physician bad enough, there is a seat in some medical school class somewhere for them. You must know, however, that with those stats you won't be graduating in 4 years and be entering med school. I just don't see how that could happen. Take fewer credit hours if you need to (within reason) and take some time to get more involved in shadowing, volunteering, and research. You might need an extra year to catch up, but this game is played at each man's pace. There is no ideal pace.

Seek out the help you need to start improving science exam scores. Those are what matter the absolute most. And MCAT isn't so much about knowing everything before you start studying as it is about putting in enough time studying AND practicing tests, so don't worry about memorizing everything as you go along. MCAT prep materials do perhaps the best possible job at making sure you know what you need to.

I wish you the best of luck, friend. You certainly seem to have the drive to be a physician, but you got caught up in something that honestly happens to the best of us. Keep your head up

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Find out why you struggled in Bio. Retake them. You still are early in your schooling so aim for A's the rest of the way. DO schools do grade replacement. If you perform well the rest of the way 3.7+ and get a 512+ in the MCAT you might have a shot at MD programs. But saying things is easy, doing is harder (using a @Goro ism) Goodluck

 

[OrdinaryDO]

My advice, I will keep it short and sweet:

1. Don't even think about research. You don't NEED it and you aren't ready to devote that sort or time into something that doesn't carry weight, aside from having published papers.

2. Refocus yourself and get serious with school. There is an AMAZING story on SDN that a user logged with respect to his/her own journey from 'rags to riches' per say with respect to going from very poor academics to very impressive academics and several acceptances from allopathic schools (and yes, he/she was much worse off than you are as of NOW).

3. Don't ever mistake the statistics for favoring you just because you have a lot in common with those who score well. I promise you if you take the MCAT with that attitude your score will humble you in a quickness.

4. Learn to be a better student. People tend to think a class is "hard" or a professor is "bad," but in reality it is often the student's fault more times then not when they start falling behind and doing poorly in class. You have to learn to become a better student - treat it like a job and plan time to study, re-write notes, go over the chapter before class, review for tests in a timely manner...undergrad is easy, you can almost get by with memorizing everything the day before the test..medical school is where the rubber hits the road, so it's better to learn how to deal with it now before it's really too late.

 

[mathnerd88]

My advice, I will keep it short and sweet:

1. Don't even think about research. You don't NEED it and you aren't ready to devote that sort or time into something that doesn't carry weight, aside from having published papers.

2. Refocus yourself and get serious with school. There is an AMAZING story on SDN that a user logged with respect to his/her own journey from 'rags to riches' per say with respect to going from very poor academics to very impressive academics and several acceptances from allopathic schools (and yes, he/she was much worse off than you are as of NOW).

3. Don't ever mistake the statistics for favoring you just because you have a lot in common with those who score well. I promise you if you take the MCAT with that attitude your score will humble you in a quickness.

4. Learn to be a better student. People tend to think a class is "hard" or a professor is "bad," but in reality it is often the student's fault more times then not when they start falling behind and doing poorly in class. You have to learn to become a better student - treat it like a job and plan time to study, re-write notes, go over the chapter before class, review for tests in a timely manner...undergrad is easy, you can almost get by with memorizing everything the day before the test..medical school is where the rubber hits the road, so it's better to learn how to deal with it now before it's really too late.

Completely agree with this. OP, don't think that the MCAT is easy. It isn't. The MCAT has been revamped to become more difficult, and is now going to be more BIO based and less Math/Stat based. If you're struggling with bio, you're going to struggle with the MCAT.

 

[JustAPhD]

I got into a decent to good private school (around rank 50) with an SAT of 2000+

I took 3 full years of biology in high school ( honors bio, then Molecular Bio, then AP Bio), but somehow decided I could float by in college bio. In college its just a whole different ball game.

To me it sounds like you haven't figured out how to study yet. You relied on what worked in HS as many do and it proved to be not enough for college level classes. Happens to many young undergrads, but most tend to fix it after a semester. You haven't done yourself any favors that's for sure, but you're not screwed. Focus on your studying habits, talk to the tutors available and see how they study. Perhaps go to learning services if you need help formulating a studying plan.

You said you're rushing another frat possibly this week. Perhaps you're doing too much outside the classroom?

 

[Dandine]

While statistically math/stat people may do better, that doesn't mean anything in the big picture--your success the MCAT depends on how well you can understand the material and the structure of the exam itself. EDIT: Agree with poster above; it's too early to say for certain with the newer exam.

As for advice: you can only work to do better from here on out. It sounds like nothing, but if you are committed to doing better, you will find a way to do better. That means figuring out what works for you, which will likely involve what many of the other posters above have said with time management and improving study habits. You seem to have thought yourself through so it's a matter of putting those things into action.

As for motivation, what I can say for now is be open. I don't know what your own personal motivators are, but think about why you're interested in medicine. Your reasons will likely change and grow as you expose yourself to different activities. Focus on your classes for now and take things as they come.

Best of luck to you!

 

[WedgeDawg]

I merged these two threads because they are the same

 

[AM1234567]

Thank you all for your thought out responses. A few take-aways:

1. Get the GPA up. This semester I have to show my worth and go for a 4.0. It is possible with a 4.0 to have a 3.17 gpa by the end of this year.
2. The MCAT is no cakewalk ( I know, believe me) I will get princeton review or kaplan prep and study every day from the summer till the day of testing. I don't plan on taking the MCAT if my practice scores are not in a competitive range.
3. Don't think about the extras yet. The GPA takes precedence and should be at a 3.3 by application time to give myself a shot.
4. DO schools look at primarily the retake grades. This gives me hope that with a retake of biology with solid grades gives me a semi-new slate.

My plan now is to take this semester by the horns, then retake bio my junior year and prepare for the MCAT. I hope in a semester or twos time I can write a much different post on this forum about what lies ahead.

If there's anything else you think I should know or adjust, that would be appreciated as well.

 

[AM1234567]

Advice:

1. Write shorter explanations, so someone doesn't give up reading and trying to figure out what you are asking?

2. Don't do Caribbean.

I don't see why people think the Caribbean schools with US residencies is not a viable option. Im fairly sure there is a huge shortage of primary care doctors in the USA

 

[AM1234567]

First, I understand it takes a lot to put yourself out there and I can appreciate that you've come here for advice. So I'll try my best to address you concerns.

At this point, going to the Caribbean is a pretty terrible idea for anyone. Unless you don't mind being jobless.

Good luck : )

Thanks for the feedback, again, about Caribbean schools with US residencies, why would there not be available positions in less competitive residencies? A shortage in primary care doctors should be working in those students advantage

 

[DrMikeP]

I don't see why people think the Caribbean schools with US residencies is not a viable option. Im fairly sure there is a huge shortage of primary care doctors in the USA

The problem is getting that US residency. The slots available are aren't growing as the same rate as students and many Caribbean schools charge huge fees and kick large numbers of students out after the first year, so they can claim great placement rates (some of which are bought). With the merger it's going to be even more competitive. My hospital site has never ever taken a Caribbean student and never will, even though we will hire docs that are IMG's. Right or wrong, being a Caribbean medical student puts you at the bottom of the list, so why would one want to risk it.

p.s. Nice short to the point question! Having that skill is invaluable in a medical setting.

 

[efle]

Carib is especially expensive, has a massive dropout rate, and has a large number of grads fail to match

 

[GrapesofRath]

Thanks for the feedback, again, about Caribbean schools with US residencies, why would there not be available positions in less competitive residencies? A shortage in primary care doctors should be working in those students advantage

Historically only about 30-40% of people who enter the Caribbean will a) graduate without getting kicked out b) land a residency. This number will only go down significantly with the upcoming merger and as more IMGs get shut out and as general competition will increase. There is no justification for going to the Caribbean in this current era at all; already long odds are going to become much worse for Caribbean IMGs.

The few who make it in the Caribbean were often the types of candidates who could have gotten into DO programs or got into DO programs and foolishly turned them down. In other words, they had at least reasonable academic capabilities, they just made incredibly foolish decisions. If you cant get into a DO program after grade replacement and what not, that is a pretty good sign you just probably arent academically capable of handling medical school and in many ways its a blessing in disguise as it clearly tells you time for Plan B. The Caribbean is not the answer if you cant get into a DO program.

What you need to do is to take lighter courseloads until you figure out how to get A's in science courses. Taking Physics, Ochem AND Calc in the same semester with your current GPA is just a recipe for disaster. You need to develop better study habbits, learn what it takes to succeed and see yourself have success and use that as a guideline for how to perform in school. The only way you are going to do that is to break down your courseload. Take 1 of those 3 science courses next semester. Do all in your power to get an A. Once you feel like you are confident getting an A in one science class at a time, boost the courseload up to 2. Then eventually go up to 3.

You cant skip steps in the process of GPA repair. Dont keep making the same mistakes. Learn from them, and change your approach starting by adjusting your courseload to build up your study techniques and habbits.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

The only other advice I can give right now is to read up on the current events related to medical students and available residencies with respect to the merger finalizing in 2020. If, after reading the topic thoroughly, you still believe you want to go to a Caribbean school, then at least you can't say you weren't informed.