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[definitely_chondria]

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[Lucca]

1. Don't put stuff from high school on the app unless it's a published paper

2. A gap year is not necessary with your experience but taking a gap year might still be a good idea if there is something you want to get done before applying or if you don't feel ready in general.

3. Research doesn't need to be related to desired PhD.

 

[jesie]

@Fencer what do you think about research from high school? I know the rule is usually to leave out high school stuff but I'm curious if this is an exception. Just the research, though. Definitely leave out the high school volunteering.

Your research content is unimportant, but it will help that it was more medically oriented.

If rank/prestige is important to you, I would take a gap year. Most/many of the people you will meet on the interview trail have taken at least one. When I interviewed at UCSF, almost all the other interviewees were finishing up master's degrees this year. Take that for what you will and evaluate this in the context of your values. Because, frankly, your application looks better than mine did (MCAT pending) and I ended up very happy with how the cycle went, but the extra experience would help you separate from the very top applicants.

I am going in straight out of undergrad (just applied this cycle, so take my advice with a grain of salt) and I think there is something to be said for not extending an already long training path.

3. You don't necessarily need letters from every PI. I only had 3 research letters, having worked in 5 labs during undergrad, and I was fine, even at places that "require letters from all research mentors" (Emory).

5. Start your MDPhD statement and research statement early. Make sure you can answer the question of why MDPhD instead of md or PhD. I don't mean just for your interviews, but most importantly for yourself. Make sure you're doing this for the right reasons before you hit submit.

 

[Fencer]

You can't change your past, parents, SOS, ethnicity, etc. If the HS research was what key you into a career as a clinician-scientist, express that in your application. Clearly, it would not have the same weight as an undergraduate or postbac experience. You don't need to defend the experience, just describe it. It will not hurt you...

Describe your passion for science, everything else will align well. You don't seem to need a post-bac year.

 

[Microbug]

You can't change your past, parents, SOS, ethnicity, etc. If the HS research was what key you into a career as a clinician-scientist, express that in your application. Clearly, it would not have the same weight as an undergraduate or postbac experience. You don't need to defend the experience, just describe it. It will not hurt you...

Describe your passion for science, everything else will align well. You don't seem to need a post-bac year.

For me personally, I'm in the same lab since high school so it would be an exception because of the continuation.

 

[definitely_chondria]

Thanks for all of your feedback everyone!

If rank/prestige is important to you, I would take a gap year.

Does rank of a program correlate with its quality? A well-structured program (experienced administration, a strong support system for students, curriculum integrating clinical and research years, support for students going back to clinic, etc.) is more important to me than the numerical rank.

the admissions director from Columbia said that it doesn't hurt to put HS research on since it shows early interest; however, the AD from Sinai said that HS research basically depends on who your parents know, so she doesn't really care.

The research I did in high school was actually a program for underrepresented minorities in science. The place where I did this research is actually now one of my top choice programs. In this case, the HS research should help my app, shouldn't it?

If the HS research was what key you into a career as a clinician-scientist, express that in your application. Clearly, it would not have the same weight as an undergraduate or postbac experience. You don't need to defend the experience, just describe it.

Is it advisable that I have letters of recommendation from my high school PIs (even though I already have 3 from undergrad classes and research)? Getting letters from my high school PIs won't be a problem, but that was four years ago so I'm uncertain of the weight that will hold in the admissions process.

Lastly, how "bad" is it if I DON'T get a letter of recommendation from an undergrad lab that I participated in?

 

[Fencer]

Undergrad classes LORs are useless. Research advisors are critical.

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Undergrad classes LORs are useless. Research advisors are critical.

Sorry to derail, but can they significantly hurt an application? I've been reaching out to professors and most have basically been AWOL with regards to responding, while the one science prof that gave me one (after I scrambled a bit) pretty explicitly told me that I didn't rank the highest in the class and some outside factors have made me a little wary. Should I wait it out and get it from someone else? I do have 2 LoRs from PIs for independent research courses that gave me credit; 1, I've only been with for a term but am going to be there for the rest of my time in UG and the other I was there for 1.5ish years.

@ OP, I think you should put them down but I don't think you need LoRs from HS PIs unless the work went into the undergrad years (mine continued to the summer before undergrad). I don't think it would hurt you, at worst, they'd probably be indifferent.

 

[jesie]

You don't have to point out that you were doing it in high school. The dates will reflect that but if it's ongoing then I bet it gets glossed over anyways. Nobody is going to discredit the whole thing just because the starting date is in 2012.

Within fully-funded MDPhD programs and MSTPs (as far as I have been able to tell based on interview experience), there is relatively little fluctuation in training quality except for the variables of personal fit and what research areas some schools specialise in. (ie: some schools may or may not be better overall, but there are some that are certainly better for neuroscience). The things that ARE related to numerical rank are perceived quality from outsiders and how impressed less informed people are when you say where you're going. Don't make life choices off that. If a school has $500,000 to offer you to train as an MDPhD, it's cause they know how to train you well. Programs don't casually stumble into huge funding. They get it in response to proving themselves so it's hard to go wrong unless you're picking places that are a bad fit.

It'll help you to stop thinking about them as your high schools PIs if you did undergrad research with them. That'll clarify the questions you still have. Get any meaningful letters you can, don't freak out about the rest.

 

[Fencer]

LORs from undergrad course professors are almost useless. You got a grade already for the course in the transcript. Research mentor letters are more important...

On the other side of the coin, a bad letter from an undergrad course professor might hurt, but a bad letter from a research mentor will hurt badly.

 

[definitely_chondria]

If a school has $500,000 to offer you to train as an MDPhD, it's cause they know how to train you well. Programs don't casually stumble into huge funding. They get it in response to proving themselves so it's hard to go wrong unless you're picking places that are a bad fit.

This is a super helpful perspective, thanks!!

LORs from undergrad course professors are almost useless. You got a grade already for the course in the transcript. Research mentor letters are more important...

On the other side of the coin, a bad letter from an undergrad course professor might hurt, but a bad letter from a research mentor will hurt badly.

On that note... I don't think I'll get a really strong letter out of one of my PIs (I was only there 1 summer and we didn't interact much since he was traveling most of the time). Will it hurt worse if I don't submit a letter from him at all?

 

[Fencer]

If the PI wasn't there during the summer that you were, get the person who supervise you to write the letter and ask that person to provide it to the PI. Most often, they will recognize their absence, and quote portions of that letter.

We expect letters from research PI for experiences longer than 8-10 weeks.

 

[Microbug]

If the PI wasn't there during the summer that you were, get the person who supervise you to write the letter and ask that person to provide it to the PI. Most often, they will recognize their absence, and quote portions of that letter.

We expect letters from research PI for experiences longer than 8-10 weeks.

If you do a summer program every summer and applied as a junior, is it a red flag sign if I don't have a letter from freshmen summer PI.

 

[Fencer]

Some programs might ask you why you didn't include a letter, some will let it flyby if it was your first research experience.