Advanced dental hygiene practitioner

[RDH325]

Actually, not oppressed at all but excited about my profession. You should go and work with some of the dentists who are practicing dentistry. They are the ones who seem oppressed and stressed out. I am excited about the future of dentistry! I love working with patients and am good at it! I hope you will be the same when you start practicing. I am sorry that my comments are speaking to your inner psyche.....maybe you have some guilt about your extreme negativity or insecurity in what you already do.

RDH325, I hope this doesn't sound mean but I find your responses contradict your argument. Listen to your tone. It is extremely condescending. I am assuming you feel oppressed and want to take it out on someone...please do it somewhere else.

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[aphistis]

we have to refer the patients we see to a dentist on a yearly basis or more if there are problems that need to be taking care off immediately.

This is predicated on the questionable assumption that you'll be able to reliably identify those problems in the first place. Have fun scaling that combined perio-endo (in case you're lost, "endo" is short for "endodontics", part of the 90% of dentistry hygienists receive zero clinically useful training for) lesion weekly for twelve months, trying to figure out why it isn't resolving. I'll be one of the dentists in line ready to testify when the patient comes after you, after finally getting a proper diagnosis from a real dentist with the training and education to recognize what's going on.

 

[ptrianon]

Just to bring you down from your cloud...my undergraduate degree included Chem I & II for science majors, Bio I & II for science majors, Organic I & II, Physics I & II, and Calculus, as well as Anatomy & Physiology I & II, and Microbiology...so I now exactly what it is to sit through coursework that requires intense studying. For those of you entering dental school with no prior dental experience...I now for a fact that I would excel in dental school...I am definately smart enough to get through it and for those of you who are book smart, let me have you face the facts...."GETTING A'S IS NOT ENOUGH." You can do great in your book work, but if your personality is not great...good luck establishing a practice. I left the last practice I was working in because the dentist had such an arrogance about him, I couldn't stand to look at him. The funny thing is patients had great issues trusting him because of his personality. He would leave the room and they would look to me "the individual inferior to you dentists" to reasure them that what the dentist was saying was actually needed. I find it interesting that patients actually had more trust in me as a dental hygienist than they did the dentist who went to school for "8 years."

If any of you want to finance my education and help me raise my children, I would be happy to challenge you in dental school. I am completing my master degree because I love learning and it is a continous process, of course except for those of you who already think you are "God."

So you feel like you don't have to assume the same financial risk as everyone else? There is a lot more to being a dentist than just your proclaimed and untested ability to handle the academic rigors of dental school. If you don't have the gall to take the same financial and personal risks as everyone else in dental school than you should not be practicing dentistry. Many people in my class quit their jobs with kids and moved across the country to go to dental school. In fact there are two practicing hygienists in my class whom I have profound respect for. To say that ADHP's are the same stuff as dentists is lying to patients.

 

[malenurse72]

The crna residency is just bull sh**. I can't tell you how many bull sh** crna's I see every day who just sit and hold a bag. But the program is just too much work to become a crna, and I am a hygienist as well. Not too say the hygienist job isn't bull sh** either, but at least now I can be a dentist. And I agree with the guy earlier who said dentists who think they are God. It is the dentists who are the bad guys in this profession. They are lucky to have us hygienists perform practically slave labor for them. Well guess what ***hole dentists... now we can be dentists too....

 

[ldsmbhc]

Actually, not oppressed at all but excited about my profession. You should go and work with some of the dentists who are practicing dentistry. They are the ones who seem oppressed and stressed out. I am excited about the future of dentistry! I love working with patients and am good at it! I hope you will be the same when you start practicing. I am sorry that my comments are speaking to your inner psyche.....maybe you have some guilt about your extreme negativity or insecurity in what you already do.

Your facade of confidence doesn't mask the insecurities that are so evident in your comments.

 

[zxc1234]

The crna residency is just bull sh**. I can't tell you how many bull sh** crna's I see every day who just sit and hold a bag. But the program is just too much work to become a crna, and I am a hygienist as well. Not too say the hygienist job isn't bull sh** either, but at least now I can be a dentist. And I agree with the guy earlier who said dentists who think they are God. It is the dentists who are the bad guys in this profession. They are lucky to have us hygienists perform practically slave labor for them. Well guess what ***hole dentists... now we can be dentists too....

You don't think ADHP programs will require a lot of work? I don't understand your comment. You said dental hygiene is hard work also. Why not apply to a CRNA program and get paid twice the salary of a hygienist? If all a CRNA does is "hold a bag" (which is not true of course), why not go into the profession? All a hygienist does is hold a instrument. All I can say is good luck with your future lawsuits.

 

[zxc1234]

I feel that the only ones who have a chip on their shoulders are the dentist and dental students who are posting deamining comments about dental hygienists. I feel that dental school is being glorified a bit too much here. Let's face the reality of the schooling...the first four years of undergraduate are the same any other science major student would have to complete. The biology courses, chemistry courses, physics courses, organic chem courses.....as a registered hygienist, I have done those. O.K. so what does a dentist have over me, well two additional years of school. Remember during your first two years of dental school you are taking the same courses that dental hygienist had to take, dental anatomy, dental radiology, dental materials, histology, pharmacology, perio, etc. etc. During your last two years you concentrate on the restorative aspect of dentisry. Do you not think that if this law were to pass, there wouldn't be a requirement for further education in restorative dentistry for the hygienist? Remember, we will have to go to school for another two years to even practice in this capacity. I just wish you would all see that it is all about patients. The only ones mentioning money here are the dentist...suprise..suprise. If you are excellent denstists and have gained the trust of your patients then there is no need to worry, for those of you who have such insecurities, I wonder about your relationship with your patients.

I have to call bs on that. Everyone in college have to take a chemistry, biology, or physic course. It is part of of the pre-req courses we have to take to GRADUATE with a degree in anything. These are introductory courses. You don't have to take o-chem unless you are a biology or a chemistry major. Who are you fooling? No one.

 

[makushin]

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[gryffindor]

Most of the individuals who this new level of hygienists will be able to treat are on government insurance programs or hmo's. I am sorry but I have tempted at offices that take HMO's and it is a disgrace that offices schedule them for 30 minute appointments, but this is how the dentist needs to schedule in order to run his practice and make money. Unfortanately for these patients, they don't receive the thorough service they deserve. I have stopped taking temporary jobs at these practices because I feel the offices require me to take shortcuts that I feel are unethical. I grew up on welfare myself, so I know what these individuals go through on a daily basis. If there were more options for them, it would be huge!

If private practices accepting these HMOs are scheduling these patients every 30 minutes to attempt to turn a profit... then who is going to be paying you when you spend 1.5 hours on these same patients giving them "thorough service" yet generating no profit?

 

[rdhdds1]

You don't think ADHP programs will require a lot of work? I don't understand your comment. You said dental hygiene is hard work also. Why not apply to a CRNA program and get paid twice the salary of a hygienist? If all a CRNA does is "hold a bag" (which is not true of course), why not go into the profession? All a hygienist does is hold a instrument. All I can say is good luck with your future lawsuits.

In order to apply and be accepted into a CRNA program one has to have a BS in nursing first. There is no bridge from hygiene to CRNA.

 

[rdhdds1]

Actually there was nursing/DH biochem and ochem at my school. They were combined into one 3 credit course that was numbered something like 2xx. I had several of them tell me about taking OC or biochem and they didn't understand that they were taking different courses then me. I never bothered to correct them.

I took 2 semesters of anatomy and physiology with the nursing and DH students in undegrad, so I know the score. Sure they took physics, chemistry, o-chem, biochem, biology. They didn't take a single one of those courses with the science majors though. I've seen the material they learned-- very watered down.

I hate to say it, but most the DH students I took A&P with would have a real struggle in dental school. I saw how hard they had to work and the class curve. I'm sure a few of them would make it through though. But to compare the curriculum is just laughable.

I agree that some of the courses that are pre-reqs for a DH program can be watered down, however, when I received my AAS some years ago I can say that at my junior college there was no option for the "watered down" version. Now I am not saying that there are none offered at other insitiutions but mine was not one of them.

I took A&P I/II, micro, and CHM151 all for science majors (not the "health professions" major) with pre-med/pre-dental students who were just starting out and the majority of the students were going onto med/dent school.

When I finished my BS in DH and then completed my pre-reqs for dental school I took the same o-chems, gen chems, physics as everyone else that was pre-dental/pre-med.

Maybe and just maybe those that were in your class that were pre-DH were jsut doing the bare minimun to see their way through to the next round.

 

[makushin]

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[KOM]

Maybe and just maybe those that were in your class that were pre-DH were jsut doing the bare minimun to see their way through to the next round.

Sounds like the whole philosophy behind the ADHP.

 

[rdhdds1]

Hmmm, no, they were standard nursing and DH students. I actually had a roommate that was attending nursing school at another institution that had the same situation too. I remember her complaining about how hard organic chemistry was, and I kept my mouth shut. I don't think it's common for nursing and DH students to take the full science curriculum with the science majors. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just the way it is. I'm sure a lot of you guys are sharp, but it is silly to compare the curriculum.

Agreed that nursing/DH students (or those looking into those programs) are not and will never be required to take the full boat as "science majors". Granted in my example I did take them with science majors (at least the class was labeled "for science majors"). I am in now way comparing curriculum. Nursing/DH programs ar focused on just that. The science courses that we take (I have an AAS in nursing as well) are geared towards the profession and "science" behind it.

Sounds like the whole philosophy behind the ADHP.

Completely different. The ADHP is gonna happen. That is undebateable at this point. More states will eventually jump on the band wagon, that too is undebateable.

I believe you are referencing the thought that the ADHP/OHP is doing the "bare minimum" in order to practice restorative dentistry? I do not believe that is the case.

The proposed curriculum (which I will post in a minute) is very similar to some (not all) of the calsses as dental students.

I do however see your point.

Here is some information for those that want more information ont the ADHP.

I have tried to locate the proposed curriculum and I am unable to. I shall make a few phone calls and get back to you on that.

 

[rdhdds1]

Stats show that cleaning and exams take up 76% of all dental services and are estimated to grow even higher in the future. Plus, the fake dentists are not limited only to these procedures.
Taurus had made a good point. We should learn from the NP case and not hire nor take any referrals from the cleaning clinics of these midlevels if that nonsense bill goes through.

Why do those of you who refer to the ADHP/OHP as "fake dentists"? Is it not he same to classify NP/PA's as fake medical doctors?

Not to accept referrals is a personal choice. I get that. However, there are states out there that allow DH to open their own clinic with little to no oversight from a dentist. In this instance they are allowed to do everything with the exception that a dentist does not have to be rpesent. I am sure there are exceptions like the administration of anesthetics/N2O2. The DH is required to REFER to a practicing dentist in order to hve exams/restorative work.

The way that I understand the law that was passed in MN is that the ADHP/OHP will have to sign a collaborative agreement in order to open an office. This is all and wonderful since the dentist will undoubtedly take on more responsibility as well.

If there is so much disdain for the ADHP/OHP then how about those that oppose it (even though the bill passed and it is well on its way to becoming a reality) do not sign the agreement?

 

[capisce?]

Look people the type of patients who will go see expanded function hygienists are not the type of patient you want in your practice. They are going to be people that only go when in pain and for the most part those are miserable patients to deal with.

 

[capisce?]

Agreed that nursing/DH students (or those looking into those programs) are not and will never be required to take the full boat as "science majors". Granted in my example I did take them with science majors (at least the class was labeled "for science majors"). I am in now way comparing curriculum. Nursing/DH programs ar focused on just that. The science courses that we take (I have an AAS in nursing as well) are geared towards the profession and "science" behind it.




Completely different. The ADHP is gonna happen. That is undebateable at this point. More states will eventually jump on the band wagon, that too is undebateable.

I believe you are referencing the thought that the ADHP/OHP is doing the "bare minimum" in order to practice restorative dentistry? I do not believe that is the case.

The proposed curriculum (which I will post in a minute) is very similar to some (not all) of the calsses as dental students.

I do however see your point.

Here is some information for those that want more information ont the ADHP.

I have tried to locate the proposed curriculum and I am unable to. I shall make a few phone calls and get back to you on that.

The competencies sound nice but how do you determine the difference between what a simple vs complicated extraction is if you haven't had enough experience taking teeth out. I'll tell you when. When you've snapped root tips off 2mm away from the IAN and you pawn it off on a dentist because you couldn't handle it. I can't tell you how many extractions I've done that appeared 'simple' from the outset but turned into extremely difficult cases. You will not be doing patients a service by providing substandard care, which is what you will be doing.

Another example...performing repairs on partials. It's not as as easy as "i'll smooth that rough spot". You need a thorough understanding of occlusion, forces of mastication, facial profile, etc etc etc. This takes years to master in private practice let alone 4 years of dental school.

You can kid yourself and think that these competencies make things kosher but it's going to be putting a lot of patients through unnecessary risks.

Just another reason to specialize pre-dents and dents. These type of changes will not touch specialists and I think it's crazy not to consider it.

 

[Aceofspades]

Look people the type of patients who will go see expanded function hygienists are not the type of patient you want in your practice. They are going to be people that only go when in pain and for the most part those are miserable patients to deal with.

I'm sorry but I think you are dead wrong here. The NP's are living proof of white coat approval. Patients see a white coat and letters after a person's name and they are sold. Ask your non-dentist friends what the degree of a dentist is. Did they say DDS/DMD or "I have no idea"? I bet it was the latter.

Heck, many people think Dentists clean teeth! Others like their hygienist much more than their dentists. The only consolation we have is that ADH's don't have Dr. before their name, but just give that time.

 

[KOM]

Just another reason to specialize pre-dents and dents. These type of changes will not touch specialists and I think it's crazy not to consider it.

Yes it will. Once ADHP's start performing more restorative procedures that were more common to a general dental practice, you can be absolutely certain that general dentists will start tackling more specialized procedures that they may have used to refer out.

 

[red88m]

I haven't read this thread in months and everyone's still saying the same stuff. It's just one long redundant argument that is, at times, unprofessional. Disappointing.

 

[aphistis]

Why do those of you who refer to the ADHP/OHP as "fake dentists"?

Shooting from the hip, I'd guess it's because ADHP/OHP's aren't dentists, and those of us who are dislike having our profession's reputation compromised by undertrained mid-levels fraudulently claiming to be us.

Is it not he same to classify NP/PA's as fake medical doctors?

Yes, it's exactly the same. Guess what? NP's and PA's aren't "real medical doctors". If they were, they'd be called physicians--you know, similar to how if ADHP/OHP's were "real dental doctors", they'd be called dentists.

 

[capisce?]

Yes it will. Once ADHP's start performing more restorative procedures that were more common to a general dental practice, you can be absolutely certain that general dentists will start tackling more specialized procedures that they may have used to refer out.

I don't think it's going to be a factor for my career. Maybe my childrens should they go into dentistry. But who knows it's just guesswork you could be right as well. Let's hope not for our sake.

It's times like these that make me happy to be a resident in a conservative state. My state is one of the last that would adopt this. Thankfully I'm not in Cali!

 

[KOM]

Thankfully I'm not in Cali!

So true. How'd you like Obama's pick for health secretary?

 

[rdhdds1]

Look people the type of patients who will go see expanded function hygienists are not the type of patient you want in your practice. They are going to be people that only go when in pain and for the most part those are miserable patients to deal with.

Sometimes, yes. And sometimes, no.

 

[rdhdds1]

The competencies sound nice but how do you determine the difference between what a simple vs complicated extraction is if you haven't had enough experience taking teeth out. I'll tell you when. When you've snapped root tips off 2mm away from the IAN and you pawn it off on a dentist because you couldn't handle it. I can't tell you how many extractions I've done that appeared 'simple' from the outset but turned into extremely difficult cases. You will not be doing patients a service by providing substandard care, which is what you will be doing.

Another example...performing repairs on partials. It's not as as easy as "i'll smooth that rough spot". You need a thorough understanding of occlusion, forces of mastication, facial profile, etc etc etc. This takes years to master in private practice let alone 4 years of dental school.

You can kid yourself and think that these competencies make things kosher but it's going to be putting a lot of patients through unnecessary risks.

Just another reason to specialize pre-dents and dents. These type of changes will not touch specialists and I think it's crazy not to consider it.

The italics: that is what the schooling will be for. Duh?
The bold: dentists who provide substandard care (and there are alot out there) are doing the patients a diservice as well.

I agree with what you stated about it appearing "simple" and then turning out not to be. But why would an ADHP/OHP refer to you when they should refer to OS?

Repairing partials: Uh, if you look at the competencies and the scope of practice the ADHP/OHP would not be doing that anyway.

 

[rdhdds1]

Yes it will. Once ADHP's start performing more restorative procedures that were more common to a general dental practice, you can be absolutely certain that general dentists will start tackling more specialized procedures that they may have used to refer out.

I don't believe so but only time will tell. I feel that the ADHP/OHP will help expand the role of the general dentists. By taking the simple mundain procedures (eg occlusal fills) off of their schedule the dentist can maximize time and profits by paying the ADHP/OHP less than him/herself and spend more time doing more advanced restorative procedures (eg crown, bridge?

 

[rdhdds1]

Shooting from the hip, I'd guess it's because ADHP/OHP's aren't dentists, and those of us who are dislike having our profession's reputation compromised by undertrained mid-levels fraudulently claiming to be us.


Yes, it's exactly the same. Guess what? NP's and PA's aren't "real medical doctors". If they were, they'd be called physicians--you know, similar to how if ADHP/OHP's were "real dental doctors", they'd be called dentists.

Exaclty. But no one is stating or even hinting at the idea that ADHP/OHP's would be compromising the reputation fo the profession. To say such is ludacris. The only ones that are hinting or talking to that effect are the ones opposing it or pissed because it passed.

Your second point furthers the idea that NP/PA's went through the same BS that DH's are going through now. IT wasn't until NP/PA's proved themselves and solidified their abilites in the eyes of society that they were welcomed with open arms.

 

[rdhdds1]

I don't think it's going to be a factor for my career. Maybe my childrens should they go into dentistry. But who knows it's just guesswork you could be right as well. Let's hope not for our sake.

It's times like these that make me happy to be a resident in a conservative state. My state is one of the last that would adopt this. Thankfully I'm not in Cali!

Brace yourself. 5-10 years it will be there.

 

[LudwigsMangina]

All of your replies seem to predicate on the fact that you seem to think the routine procedures that a deneral DDS does on a daily basis are simple. Want to know why? It is because we have ADEQUATE TRAINING that allows us to perform them in a safe and effective manner. I've seen one of my attendings harvest a free flap and reanastimose vessels 2mm in diameter in his sleep. Must be easy then...........right?

Anybody can take out a tooth. However, when it is YOU that is reviewing a medical history on somebody and YOU are responsible for interpreting what all of those fancy medical terms mean its a whole different story What about when you see a patient that has history of multiple myeloma, a 3 hear hx of Zometa use, T2DM, and smokes 2 packs a day, that "simple" extraction all of the sudden becomes the contrary.

Do you know what zometa is? Do you know the ramifications of performing a "simple" extraction on a medically compromised patient? Do you know how to manage a patient's blood sugars BEFORE and AFTER they are in your office? What about coumadin, lovenox, plavix, aspirin? Do you know what they are? Do you know if/how/when/why to either continue their use, d/c them, or modify them prior to taking out that "simple" tooth? Do you even know what an INR is? Do you even know what a platelet is? What about a rheumatoid arthritic taking prednisone for the past 10 years. Know anything about adrenal cortical atrophy and prophylaxis? What about a previous cancer patient that received therapeutic levels of XRT 15 years ago. Now they "just" need a periodontally involved bicuspid removed? What should you do? (Insert deer in the headlights look here.)

The scariest part about all of this is you know not that you know not. You will be woefully uneducated to the point of being wreckless. Somebody is going to get hurt and you will be left twirling your hair chomping on your gum and having no idea what the hell just happened.

 

[LudwigsMangina]

Brace yourself. 5-10 years it will be there.

Brace yourself. In 5-10 years you'll still be saying this.

 

[LuckyMiner]

 

[rdhdds1]

All of your replies seem to predicate on the fact that you seem to think the routine procedures that a deneral DDS does on a daily basis are simple. Want to know why? It is because we have ADEQUATE TRAINING that allows us to perform them in a safe and effective manner. I've seen one of my attendings harvest a free flap and reanastimose vessels 2mm in diameter in his sleep. Must be easy then...........right?

Anybody can take out a tooth. However, when it is YOU that is reviewing a medical history on somebody and YOU are responsible for interpreting what all of those fancy medical terms mean its a whole different story What about when you see a patient that has history of multiple myeloma, a 3 hear hx of Zometa use, T2DM, and smokes 2 packs a day, that "simple" extraction all of the sudden becomes the contrary.

Do you know what zometa is? Do you know the ramifications of performing a "simple" extraction on a medically compromised patient? Do you know how to manage a patient's blood sugars BEFORE and AFTER they are in your office? What about coumadin, lovenox, plavix, aspirin? Do you know what they are? Do you know if/how/when/why to either continue their use, d/c them, or modify them prior to taking out that "simple" tooth? Do you even know what an INR is? Do you even know what a platelet is? What about a rheumatoid arthritic taking prednisone for the past 10 years. Know anything about adrenal cortical atrophy and prophylaxis? What about a previous cancer patient that received therapeutic levels of XRT 15 years ago. Now they "just" need a periodontally involved bicuspid removed? What should you do? (Insert deer in the headlights look here.)

The scariest part about all of this is you know not that you know not. You will be woefully uneducated to the point of being wreckless. Somebody is going to get hurt and you will be left twirling your hair chomping on your gum and having no idea what the hell just happened.

Roid rage. Calm down with the lecturing. Before being a DH I was a nurse for a number of years so to say I am uneducated in the medical aspect of patients is fruitless and to quote you "you know not what you know not".

Do not judge a book by its cover. To think that becasue a DH is a DH limits your ability to think and accept that fact that some of us have far more advanced training than most DH's out there; so stifle the sinicism.

No one ever said that the ADHP/OHP would receive anything less than adequate training. You sit there on your high horse preaching only because you are a resident. You have gone through DS and now are looking down from your perch with the disdain for an evolutionary change that society and the underserved desperately need.

About the graft. Who in their right mind ever said or even hinted that an ADHP/OHP would perform such tasks? s far as the other "do you know what this and that is" Blah, blah blah. Why do you think they call it school? And by the way I do.

But I digress. You are the supreme god. You are the one and only that can make decisions for the healthcare of this country. And now you are upset because the teacher never asked your opinion about the new midlevel practitioner.

As far as twirling my hair and chomping my gum. Again this goes to show how stereotypical and superficial you truly are. I do not chew gum and I have no hair (by choice)......................I am a 34 year old man jerkoff!

 

[aphistis]

Who in their right mind ever said or even hinted that an ADHP/OHP would perform such tasks?

No one in their right mind would ever say or even hint that a dental hygienist should perform any tasks except dental hygiene.

 

[LudwigsMangina]

......................I am a 34 year old man jerkoff!

What scrubs are on today's wardrobe winnie the pooh or little mermaid?

 

[rdhdds1]

What scrubs are on today's wardrobe winnie the pooh or little mermaid?

First let me start off by saying that I received and infraction due to the heated and obvious unprofessional remarks that I made in my previous post.

For those of you who took it in kind thank you and for those of you who did not then I am apologetic for the upheavel that it must have caused.

As for your current statement. Why do you want to know what I am wearing? Interesting turn this has taken.

 

[rdhdds1]

No one in their right mind would ever say or even hint that a dental hygienist should perform any tasks except dental hygiene.

Correction. The bill that passed and all of the proposed curriculum for the ADHP/OHP allows basic restorative and therapeutic procedures as well as precription priviledges, legal diagnosing and the like.

What the poster was staing is about grafting. That is not and will never be in the scope of practice for the ADHP/OHP nor should it ever be.

 

[aphistis]

Correction. The bill that passed and all of the proposed curriculum for the ADHP/OHP allows basic restorative and therapeutic procedures as well as precription priviledges, legal diagnosing and the like.

What the poster was staing is about grafting. That is not and will never be in the scope of practice for the ADHP/OHP nor should it ever be.

The only people you have on board with the ADHP are yourselves and half a state legislature's worth of sycophantic politicians. As I said previously, no one in their right mind would endorse this. The only diagnostic & therapeutic privileges that should be granted to dental hygienists are those for dental hygiene.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

The only diagnostic & therapeutic privileges that should be granted to dental hygienists are those for dental hygiene.

exactly.

 

[ptrianon]

Roid rage. Calm down with the lecturing. Before being a DH I was a nurse for a number of years so to say I am uneducated in the medical aspect of patients is fruitless and to quote you "you know not what you know not".

Do not judge a book by its cover. To think that becasue a DH is a DH limits your ability to think and accept that fact that some of us have far more advanced training than most DH's out there; so stifle the sinicism.

No one ever said that the ADHP/OHP would receive anything less than adequate training. You sit there on your high horse preaching only because you are a resident. You have gone through DS and now are looking down from your perch with the disdain for an evolutionary change that society and the underserved desperately need.

About the graft. Who in their right mind ever said or even hinted that an ADHP/OHP would perform such tasks? s far as the other "do you know what this and that is" Blah, blah blah. Why do you think they call it school? And by the way I do.

But I digress. You are the supreme god. You are the one and only that can make decisions for the healthcare of this country. And now you are upset because the teacher never asked your opinion about the new midlevel practitioner.

As far as twirling my hair and chomping my gum. Again this goes to show how stereotypical and superficial you truly are. I do not chew gum and I have no hair (by choice)......................I am a 34 year old man jerkoff!

If you are as qualified as you claim to be why not go to dental school?

 

[EnamelTuft]

Correction. The bill that passed and all of the proposed curriculum for the ADHP/OHP allows basic restorative and therapeutic procedures as well as precription priviledges, legal diagnosing and the like.

What the poster was staing is about grafting. That is not and will never be in the scope of practice for the ADHP/OHP nor should it ever be.

Sounds like your a dentist with all of those priviledges. And you suppose your going to stop it there, of course grafting is something that will be on your to do list in the near future, so are implants, endo, etc. You say your main objective is to help out the underserved, well if you haven't heard, these people need more than just simple extractions and fillings. If anything, you guys should be treated the wealthy people, they're the ones who have simple cavities, if any. The underserved people are generally the ones who need complex treatments due to the amount of decay they have. What's next on your agenda, "government we need to be allowed to do endo, partials, complete dentures, etc. because most are patients are in need of those tx's and the greedy dentist won't help." Didn't the NP's say that their agenda was to stay in underserved areas, where are they now? In are very back yard is where they're at.

Let me put it this way. Would it be smart to train "half" firemans? Fireman's that only controll small fires. Come on, fires can burn quick, so can a simple filling turning into a complex filling. What's going to happen when all those simple fillings start to become more than you can handle? If you say that your going to refer them out to real dentist, how's that possible because you keep stating that read dentist don't do jack for the underseved. You've got to be a fool, if you believe that ADHP's will stop it at simple ext's and fillings. Those are just the initial phase of their objective. In the end, this is a turf war issue because ADHP's are encroaching on our expertise and trying to state that they're qualified. You say that two years (30 some odd credits) is enough, heck, one of my semesters was 24 credits. The only way two years of training would be adequate is if you don't sleep at all and train 16 hours a day. Either your taking a short cut into the profession, or we as dentist are over trained. There's no grey area about that. And don't give me that crap about not taking our boards and licensing exams (minus fixed and removable prosths).

 

[rdhdds1]

The only people you have on board with the ADHP are yourselves and half a state legislature's worth of sycophantic politicians. As I said previously, no one in their right mind would endorse this. The only diagnostic & therapeutic privileges that should be granted to dental hygienists are those for dental hygiene.

I agree that the majority of those supporting the bill and the creation of a mid-level practitioner are DH's as well as some politicians that can see the bigger picture.

The DH's are only allowed to do what is allowed by dentists. We are not self governing like nurses so therefore if any development has to be approved by dentists and in this case there were those in the ADA that approved as well as the MN state board.

I personally support the creation of a mid-level and I am gald to see that it passed. The ADHA has been trying diligently to successfully approach this and there are many more states that will follow.

As a supporter I am happy. As a DH I am concerned. I want to ensure that the educational modalities that are being established are going to address the much heated and often debated standard of care.

So as I have stated in previous posts; I am for and against it. I am truly on the fence.

 

[rdhdds1]

Sounds like your a dentist with all of those priviledges. And you suppose your going to stop it there, of course grafting is something that will be on your to do list in the near future, so are implants, endo, etc. You say your main objective is to help out the underserved, well if you haven't heard, these people need more than just simple extractions and fillings. If anything, you guys should be treated the wealthy people, they're the ones who have simple cavities, if any. The underserved people are generally the ones who need complex treatments due to the amount of decay they have. What's next on your agenda, "government we need to be allowed to do endo, partials, complete dentures, etc. because most are patients are in need of those tx's and the greedy dentist won't help." Didn't the NP's say that their agenda was to stay in underserved areas, where are they now? In are very back yard is where they're at.

Let me put it this way. Would it be smart to train "half" firemans? Fireman's that only controll small fires. Come on, fires can burn quick, so can a simple filling turning into a complex filling. What's going to happen when all those simple fillings start to become more than you can handle? If you say that your going to refer them out to real dentist, how's that possible because you keep stating that read dentist don't do jack for the underseved. You've got to be a fool, if you believe that ADHP's will stop it at simple ext's and fillings. Those are just the initial phase of their objective. In the end, this is a turf war issue because ADHP's are encroaching on our expertise and trying to state that they're qualified. You say that two years (30 some odd credits) is enough, heck, one of my semesters was 24 credits. The only way two years of training would be adequate is if you don't sleep at all and train 16 hours a day. Either your taking a short cut into the profession, or we as dentist are over trained. There's no grey area about that. And don't give me that crap about not taking our boards and licensing exams (minus fixed and removable prosths).

Sounds like: sounds like we will have some of the ability of dentists. I agree. Some being the operative word.

Underserved: the bill in MN was amended to only allow DH's that go on and become ADHP/OHP to practice in the underserved/rural/under represented areas. BUt I do see and appreciate your point about he NP's creaping into back yards. I believe it is to early to tell at this time if that will happen. Alot of speculation is going on about that (mainly from dentists) and it is to early to say.

Half Firemans: they are called volunteer firemans and they are very successful at doing the job of someone who went throught he academy.

Inital phase: I ahve no idea if it is or not. I am not the one sitting in an office thinking of ways to expand the mid-level. I do not agree if it goes beyond the currently proposed scope of practice.

This is a turf war: that it is. It has always been that way between dentists and hygiensits. I am not sure why. I guess we could as Esther Wilkens. I could speculate but without facts I would digress from doing that at this time.

Credits: never said that two years or 30 credit was enough. What I said sometiem ago was that if that is what the legislation has passed and the competencies are covering it and the individual can pass the borads then that shold be acceptable.

I personally feel that the curriculum is longer than that. The competencies might show that but honestly taht is only 1 year and not 2. So look for it to be closer to 60-70. Is that enough? I do not know as I am the one not making those decisions and for anyone else to state the opposite is speculative at best.

 

[rdhdds1]

If you are as qualified as you claim to be why not go to dental school?

I am currently applying and shall see what happens.

 

[mx41]

Hi

I've read the last ten pages of this thread but I have a few lingering questions
1) According to http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/adanewsarticle.asp?articleid=2935
The MDA and ADA stated they will continue to oppose this bill as long as it includes unsupervised surgical procedures.

"Rest assured that all is not lost and there are a number of activities being undertaken that cannot be reported on at this time," added Dr. Feldman.

More updates will be given to members as the Minnesota situation evolves.
So has Minnesota approved the bill that allows ADHPs or is it still under talks?

2) . I don't see how ADHPs will help treat the underserved, if there is no mention in the bill that they can only work in rural areas. How would there be a way to make sure that ADHPs are treating MA patients and in poor areas?
The solution (I believe, and some other people have said this already): Increase medicaid reimbursement so more dentists can accept MA patients and create government incentives for dentists working in rural areas (similar to HSCP scholarship for navy dentistry, etc)

 

[rdhdds1]

Hi

I've read the last ten pages of this thread but I have a few lingering questions
1) According to http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/adanewsarticle.asp?articleid=2935
The MDA and ADA stated they will continue to oppose this bill as long as it includes unsupervised surgical procedures.

"Rest assured that all is not lost and there are a number of activities being undertaken that cannot be reported on at this time," added Dr. Feldman.

More updates will be given to members as the Minnesota situation evolves.
So has Minnesota approved the bill that allows ADHPs or is it still under talks?

2) . I don't see how ADHPs will help treat the underserved, if there is no mention in the bill that they can only work in rural areas. How would there be a way to make sure that ADHPs are treating MA patients and in poor areas?
The solution (I believe, and some other people have said this already): Increase medicaid reimbursement so more dentists can accept MA patients and create government incentives for dentists working in rural areas (similar to HSCP scholarship for navy dentistry, etc)

Thanks for the post.

The bill that was originally proposed did not limit the area in which ADHP/OHP could practice. It was not until the moaning and groaning started from the dentists and those attempting to become dentists that the bill was amended to change the name from Advandced Dental Hygiene Practitioner (ADHP) to Oral Health Practitioner (OHP) and to limit the area of practice to rural areas.

The bill has passed and the proposed curriculum is being finalized as we type these posts. Below are some websites that may lend a more explanative role.

http://mndha.com/Legislative.html
http://www.changemakers.net/en-us/node/1188
https://www.adha.org/news/04212008-adhp-mn.htm
http://www.mndha.com/PDFS%20and%20Docs/Q%20&%20A%20on%20the%20ADHP%20MN%20facts%20&%20ADHP%20Fact%20Sheet.doc
http://www.adha.org/downloads/June_2007_ADHP_Competencies.pdf (pg 19 starts the comparison and if you scroll down i think around 35 or so the competencies and breakdown of them start)

 

[KOM]

It was not until the moaning and groaning started from the dentists and those attempting to become dentists that the bill was amended to change the name from Advandced Dental Hygiene Practitioner (ADHP) to Oral Health Practitioner (OHP) and to limit the area of practice to rural areas.

CAREFUL! The only moaning and groaning at those hearings was coming from the "hy-genitals" getting hard ons by the possibility of receiving a dental salary while putting forth half the sacrifice and investment.

If they truly cared about access to care they wouldn't have cried so much when those restrictions were set up. That's why I couldn't stand the arguments coming from them...they founded the whole premise of the ADHP/OHP on access to care and then when they were told to practice in areas where this need was greatest they were up in arms.

I was in some of those hearings and I assure you the only rational voices being heard were those of the dentists. But the hygienists wouldnt know that because they weren't smart enough to get into dental school in the first place. Period.

 

[aphistis]

CAREFUL! The only moaning and groaning at those hearings was coming from the "hy-genitals" getting hard ons by the possibility of receiving a dental salary while putting forth half the sacrifice and investment.

If they truly cared about access to care they wouldn't have cried so much when those restrictions were set up. That's why I couldn't stand the arguments coming from them...they founded the whole premise of the ADHP/OHP on access to care and then when they were told to practice in areas where this need was greatest they were up in arms.

I was in some of those hearings and I assure you the only rational voices being heard were those of the dentists. But the hygienists wouldnt know that because they weren't smart enough to get into dental school in the first place. Period.

Seriously, is this necessary? Does this help anything?

In case anyone needs the clarification: no.

 

[rdhdds1]

CAREFUL! The only moaning and groaning at those hearings was coming from the "hy-genitals" getting hard ons by the possibility of receiving a dental salary while putting forth half the sacrifice and investment.

If they truly cared about access to care they wouldn't have cried so much when those restrictions were set up. That's why I couldn't stand the arguments coming from them...they founded the whole premise of the ADHP/OHP on access to care and then when they were told to practice in areas where this need was greatest they were up in arms.

I was in some of those hearings and I assure you the only rational voices being heard were those of the dentists. But the hygienists wouldnt know that because they weren't smart enough to get into dental school in the first place. Period.

First bold: I respectfully disagree. There have been previous posts by dental students that say comeshing to the effect of "contacting your representative and do not allow this to happen". So it was not just the dentsits but the dental students as well. As for the salary. I doubt very seriously if an ADHP/OHP will ever see the financial reward/compensation that a DDS/DMD will. That's like saying a NP will make as much as an MD/DO. Sure they will get a substancial increase but never will they make the same.

Second bold: I appreciate you having first hand insight into the meetings. I only wish I could have been there myself. I do agree that if DH's were only concerned about providing care to the rural/underserved areas then the restricions should not matter. However, as I have previously posted the turf war that has raged between DH's and dentists has been long standing with no equataible end in sight.

Third bold: I believe you are categorizing DH's. This is unjust. To think that we are any less intelligent is stereotypically wrong. I do admit that there have been instances in some of the offices that I have worked when I have to ask myself if this person truly graduated or was pushed along. The same goes for dental school. There are posts out there dealing with students crying over tests scores in order to benefit themselves by pulling the sexy/poor little ol' me syndrome. Does that not belittle the dental profession and those attending dental school?

The fact that there are those in school and practicing that some would question the intellectual prowess of is understandable. However, this should only be done on a case by case basis and not stereotypically generalized.

 

[rdhdds1]

Seriously, is this necessary? Does this help anything?

In case anyone needs the clarification: no.

You are the MOD so you make the call. Infraction with the hole hard on/sexual reference comment. Possibly. But I think we are having a touche to touche discussion.

 

[mx41]

Thanks for the post.

The bill that was originally proposed did not limit the area in which ADHP/OHP could practice. It was not until the moaning and groaning started from the dentists and those attempting to become dentists that the bill was amended to change the name from Advandced Dental Hygiene Practitioner (ADHP) to Oral Health Practitioner (OHP) and to limit the area of practice to rural areas.

The bill has passed and the proposed curriculum is being finalized as we type these posts. Below are some websites that may lend a more explanative role.

http://mndha.com/Legislative.html
http://www.changemakers.net/en-us/node/1188
https://www.adha.org/news/04212008-adhp-mn.htm
http://www.mndha.com/PDFS%20and%20Docs/Q%20&%20A%20on%20the%20ADHP%20MN%20facts%20&%20ADHP%20Fact%20Sheet.doc
http://www.adha.org/downloads/June_2007_ADHP_Competencies.pdf (pg 19 starts the comparison and if you scroll down i think around 35 or so the competencies and breakdown of them start)

Thanks for that

Also
I believe that ADHPs have to be under the supervision of dentists. Why are there people here saying that eventually ADHPs will lobby to break free from dentists.. how will that affect Dentists since they can only work in rural/underserved areas and only few dentists work there?