Accepted to two private schools, need advice!!

[AllAboutSmiles7]

So I have been accepted to Western U and Roseman and am really torn now that the excitement has worn off and the price tag shock has really kicked in. I'm working on applying to a 3-year HPSP (missed the 4-year deadline) and hopefully the NHSC as well.

Being that there are no guarantees to receive these scholarships, I'm kind of freaking out on what to do.
Is this kind of debt really okay and possible to pay off while still living a nice lifestyle? Any recent private school grads have input on this?
I feel as though if I don't get a scholarship (which I won't even know until after school starts), that this kind of debt would just really make my life more difficult instead of enhancing it and allowing me to help others.

I have nearly no savings, still about 20k in undergrad loans, no family help, and no significant other so it's really all on me at this point. Which is totally fine, but is it feasible?

Sorry to go on and on, but this has been on my mind for awhile and if anyone has any advice that would be wonderful.

Thank you!

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[Elysian12]

What is the price difference (including COL)?
Where is your current state of residency/where do you want to practice?
Where did you get a better vibe?
Do you see yourself in Utah or Socal?

Both are relatively new
Both are on the block curriculum
WesternU is grades
Roseman is Pass/Fail

I don't have any personal opinions about Roseman because I never interviewed there. I however am accepted into Western. One thing all the students rave about is the faculty and how caring and supportive they are to the students which I think is great. The curriculum includes an Invisalign certification. Class of 2018 had 100% pass for NBDE part 1. I think 11/12 matched their first speciality choice this past year. I heard from students recently they are slowly stopping the classes with DO students and will be more specific to dentistry. You have to wear professional attire everyday which kinda stinks but youd get used to it. Honestly the biggest turn off for me is the location. Pomona is really sketch/ghetto. Thats why students live in Chino Hills, Rancho Cucamonga, etc.

 

[Likkriue]

You will live like an average joe for about 15-20 years.

 

[super frank]

If you want a nicer lifestyle, I would work hard and try to shoot for a specialty (one that pays you as a resident). Truthfully, even schools that are 300k would still make it difficult for GP's.

 

[AllAboutSmiles7]

What is the price difference (including COL)?

With the dental school cost estimator posted on that "insanely expensive schools thread"
It looks like if tuition stays around $73,400, fees at $17,090, and living costs at about $675/month, the granddd total for Roseman would be about $457,171 (with 6% interest)
But I'm hoping those fees would be different for D2-D4, no super clear numbers were given. Doing a google search gives much lower numbers than my financial sheet from interview day.

Doing this for Western U with tuition at $68,975, fees at about $6,400, and living expenses at about $1,200/month, the granddd total would be about $416,272 (with 6% interest)

So WesternU appears to be the clear winner financially, but I'm not totally sure those calculations are accurate.

Where is your current state of residency/where do you want to practice?
I live in WA now and will eventually end up back here with my family. However, I would be willing to live somewhere else for a few years that paid better to help with my student loans, etc. Possibly in the South, but who knows.

Where did you get a better vibe?
Cool vibes from both schools! Both had very kind, cool, laid back students who seemed to really enjoy where they were at. Utah students definitely had the upper hand on a more "chill" vibe with the added focus on having more free time. But I felt I didnt get enough time at WesternU to really get a solid feel for it.

Do you see yourself in Utah or Socal?
I could honestly see myself in either location, which makes me so torn!
Both would offer a different culture and environment that I would enjoy in different ways. But who is to say if the sunshine almost every day would outweigh a little more free time as a student...lol Plenty of other differences too. But coming from Seattle, sunshine can be a pretty big deal. lol


One thing all the students rave about is the faculty and how caring and supportive they are to the students which I think is great. The curriculum includes an Invisalign certification. Class of 2018 had 100% pass for NBDE part 1. I think 11/12 matched their first speciality choice this past year. I heard from students recently they are slowly stopping the classes with DO students and will be more specific to dentistry. You have to wear professional attire everyday which kinda stinks but youd get used to it. Honestly the biggest turn off for me is the location. Pomona is really sketch/ghetto. Thats why students live in Chino Hills, Rancho Cucamonga, etc.

I do remember that being a big highlight from interview day, is how supportive and great the faculty are. Having Invisalign certification is also pretty awesome and that board passing rate is amazing! Everything you mentioned is a positive in my eyes as well. (agreed with the professional attire and location though, bit of a turn off for me as well).
What do you think the students quality of life was there/stress level? I think that is a large factor for me and if students are able to attain good grades (A's and B's) without feeling an immense amount of stress and feeling a complete lack of free time. I know it is all in the work you put in, but it would be nice to know that the general consensus was that it was pretty achievable.

Do you think $1200 a month is liveable for the Chino Hills/Claremont areas? As you can see with my above calculations to see which school would turn out to be a bit less of a burden, with that number, WesternU seems to be the winner (even though another thread says otherwise)

 

[AllAboutSmiles7]

You will live like an average joe for about 15-20 years.

What is an "average joe" lifestyle to you?
I feel that even working as a waitress I lived a decently happy lifestyle off of not much at all.
Most important to me is being able to travel a bit. I'm not as concerned with having a big fancy house, the newest most expensive car, or a boat, etc. Sure those things would be nice, but not necessities. I'd rather gain experiences out of life than material things, and I still think even with this kind of debt, I can still make that work with this career path. I don't think our generation of dentists will really know for sure until we're out there though unfortunately.
Although this debt does terrify me a bit, not being super knowledgeable on finances, I have been working towards this career since I was a kid. And to back away now, I think I might regret it. Who knows though.

 

[AllAboutSmiles7]

If you want a nicer lifestyle, I would work hard and try to shoot for a specialty (one that pays you as a resident). Truthfully, even schools that are 300k would still make it difficult for GP's.

I've always been a bit interested in orthodontics, but what other specialties would you recommend? And what do you mean by one that would pay me as a resident?

 

[Likkriue]

What is an "average joe" lifestyle to you?
I feel that even working as a waitress I lived a decently happy lifestyle off of not much at all.
Most important to me is being able to travel a bit. I'm not as concerned with having a big fancy house, the newest most expensive car, or a boat, etc. Sure those things would be nice, but not necessities. I'd rather gain experiences out of life than material things, and I still think even with this kind of debt, I can still make that work with this career path. I don't think our generation of dentists will really know for sure until we're out there though unfortunately.
Although this debt does terrify me a bit, not being super knowledgeable on finances, I have been working towards this career since I was a kid. And to back away now, I think I might regret it. Who knows though.

After loan repayments and taxes you will have maybe 45k left over if you did 15-20 years repayment. So it's like working a normal job Aka average joe. I'm not saying it's bad, I think it's completely fine. You would probably end up
Doing IBR/PAYE for the loan forgiveness though.

 

[allantois]

What is an "average joe" lifestyle to you?
I feel that even working as a waitress I lived a decently happy lifestyle off of not much at all.
Most important to me is being able to travel a bit. I'm not as concerned with having a big fancy house, the newest most expensive car, or a boat, etc. Sure those things would be nice, but not necessities. I'd rather gain experiences out of life than material things, and I still think even with this kind of debt, I can still make that work with this career path. I don't think our generation of dentists will really know for sure until we're out there though unfortunately.
Although this debt does terrify me a bit, not being super knowledgeable on finances, I have been working towards this career since I was a kid. And to back away now, I think I might regret it. Who knows though.

I think you have good reasons and reasonable expectations for pursuing this career.

 

[AllAboutSmiles7]

I think you have good reasons and reasonable expectations for pursuing this career.

Thank you, I hope that I (and everyone else pursuing dentistry still) is able to just enjoy their work and live happily! Whatever that may mean for each individual.
The debt discussions on here make it a little discouraging, but I'm hoping with a good financial advisor, we'll all be able to overcome it and live well

 

[AllAboutSmiles7]

After loan repayments and taxes you will have maybe 45k left over if you did 15-20 years repayment. So it's like working a normal job Aka average joe. I'm not saying it's bad, I think it's completely fine. You would probably end up
Doing IBR/PAYE for the loan forgiveness though.

Yeah, 45k sounds about right for an average lifestyle. But I think maybe with doing IBR/PAYE or another program of that sort and making investments, we'll all be okay in the long run and be living a decent lifestyle! And hopefully enjoying our careers more than the other options we may have considered as alternatives.

 

[Elysian12]

One thing I left out from above is the 100% board passing for the NBDE part 1 was first attempt. Not 100% sure on this but a 3rd year told me they might start implementing lasers into the curriculum and that in the future the dean will allow any alumni from the school to come back to Western and take continuing education courses for free (that's what I heard but I am not sure if it is true). I believe you also almost always have a partner in clinic which in my opinion makes the learning process less stressful.

Western has 7 week rotations during 4th year in community health centers around southern California LA area. Not sure what it is like at Roseman.

Here is a thread of a 1st year student answering a lot of questions about WesternU: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/westernu-d1-ama.1243613/#post-18730891

When I did my cost calculations I cut their ~$1600/month living expenses down to $1200 as well so it is definitely reasonable and you can probably find cheaper if you live in a house with other roommates from the class. I think your cost calculations for WesternU is reasonably accurate. Since WesternU is cheaper and you are worried about money, that might be something to consider. And southern Cali will be a sunny change for you.

If you want to specialize you will have to work harder and will have less time. That will be wherever you go. If you end up wanting to be a general dentist you will not have to work as hard (relative to wanting to specialize). I would imagine Roseman might beat WesternU on less stress because it is Pass/Fail +Block curriculum where as WesternU is Grades + Block system , but that is just my guess. I don't know what Pass/Fail would be like as I have never really experienced it. I do remember Roseman representatives saying "Pass" is around 90%. What I hear all the time from current students: if you want free time youll make free time. Be a good time manager and youll be able to have it.

Another thing to consider is WesternU offers the WREB which can be used for 40 something states (not sure if Washington is one of them). What does Roseman offer? If it is something that cannot be used to practice in Washington, that might be something to think about.

 

[AllAboutSmiles7]

One thing I left out from above is the 100% board passing for the NBDE part 1 was first attempt. Not 100% sure on this but a 3rd year told me they might start implementing lasers into the curriculum and that in the future the dean will allow any alumni from the school to come back to Western and take continuing education courses for free (that's what I heard but I am not sure if it is true). I believe you also almost always have a partner in clinic which in my opinion makes the learning process less stressful.

Western has 7 week rotations during 4th year in community health centers around southern California LA area. Not sure what it is like at Roseman.

Here is a thread of a 1st year student answering a lot of questions about WesternU: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/westernu-d1-ama.1243613/#post-18730891

When I did my cost calculations I cut their ~$1600/month living expenses down to $1200 as well so it is definitely reasonable and you can probably find cheaper if you live in a house with other roommates from the class. I think your cost calculations for WesternU is reasonably accurate. Since WesternU is cheaper and you are worried about money, that might be something to consider. And southern Cali will be a sunny change for you.

If you want to specialize you will have to work harder and will have less time. That will be wherever you go. If you end up wanting to be a general dentist you will not have to work as hard (relative to wanting to specialize). I would imagine Roseman might beat WesternU on less stress because it is Pass/Fail +Block curriculum where as WesternU is Grades + Block system , but that is just my guess. I don't know what Pass/Fail would be like as I have never really experienced it. I do remember Roseman representatives saying "Pass" is around 90%. What I hear all the time from current students: if you want free time youll make free time. Be a good time manager and youll be able to have it.

Another thing to consider is WesternU offers the WREB which can be used for 40 something states (not sure if Washington is one of them). What does Roseman offer? If it is something that cannot be used to practice in Washington, that might be something to think about.

Yeah, I was interested and impressed by those aspects of the program as well!
I might have to ask some more questions in that forum that come up!

I was actually thinking about taking the CDCA which covers more states, California being added this year! (Or at least by the time we graduate, they're working on getting all states covered). I'll have to see if Western offers it as well.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I've always been a bit interested in orthodontics, but what other specialties would you recommend? And what do you mean by one that would pay me as a resident?

Many residencies charge tuition. You want ortho? Let's say you go to Roseman for dental school. Probably going to owe close to $500,000. Then you go on to Roseman's ortho program. It charges $80,000 a year for three years, not including living expenses. When all is said and done, you may have more than $800,000 in student loans. It's not a pretty picture.

Big Hoss

 

[Elysian12]

Many residencies charge tuition. You want ortho? Let's say you go to Roseman for dental school. Probably going to owe close to $500,000. Then you go on to Roseman's ortho program. It charges $80,000 a year for three years, not including living expenses. When all is said and done, you may have more than $800,000 in student loans. It's not a pretty picture.

Big Hoss

I would invest $800,000 to make ~300k/year for the rest of my life

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I would invest $800,000 to make ~300k/year for the rest of my life

Even if you made that much, which is far from a guarantee, let's take at least a quarter of that for taxes. Now, your student loan payment is going to run you around $70,000 annually for the next twenty years of your life. Oh, you forgot about disability insurance, CE, and all the other joys you'll get to pay for just to practice your trade. Like I said, it's not a pretty picture.

Big Hoss

 

[Manic324]

Even if you made that much, which is far from a guarantee, let's take at least a quarter of that for taxes. Now, your student loan payment is going to run you around $70,000 annually for the next twenty years of your life. Oh, you forgot about disability insurance, CE, and all the other joys you'll get to pay for just to practice your trade. Like I said, it's not a pretty picture.

Big Hoss

I don't see why people keep pretending PAYE and REPAYE are not good options for the absurdly high dental school debt. Who actually pays 70k/year ??? That's insanity, basically giving up any chance of a decent lifestyle for 10-15 years after graduating. PAYE/REPAYE are clearly the only choice for us to not be miserable. Just pay 10-15% of your income (which leaves you with a pretty decent amount left to live/ invest/ etc) and hopefully after 25 years of practice you can deal with a tax bomb.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

hopefully after 25 years of practice you can deal with a tax bomb.

Have fun with that.

Big Hoss

 

[Redtwogreen]

I graduated with almost $500k of dental school debt and I'm paying it off on my own. I'd guess that the majority of my classmates are choosing income based repayment (REPAYE). I'm signed up for REPAYE but am making huge payments on it until I can refinance and get a better interest rate. I am on track to pay it off within 5-7 years, but I've only been out of school since June so we'll see what the future brings. For me, I'd rather make big student loan payments and live frugally for a few years so that I an actually enjoy my money instead of paying more than $2000 per month under one of the income based repayment plans plus having to save for the huge tax hit at the end.

It's good that you are considering this before you start school-- I know a lot of us in my class just kind of assumed things would work out. To answer your question, yes its feasible. It's obviously a lot more nerve racking when you don't have a job yet/aren't making a dentist's income. Feel free to DM me with any specific questions, and if you are interested you can check out how I'm paying off my debt here --SHOULD I CHOOSE AN INCOME BASED REPAYMENT PLAN OR PAY OFF MY STUDENT LOANS QUICKLY? – Red Two Green