Academic probation and competitive specialties?

[Pillows]

Currently an MS2 (low-tier MD), and I was recently put on academic probation because I have to remediate due to failure to pass my exams. I am interested in gen surg/surgical subspecialties (keeping my interests broad still). I know that it's definitely not ideal to have a remediation, much less after I have already gone through 1 year of med school. My question is that since this will show up on my MSPE, will this automatically shut me off surgical subspecialties? Or can I still redeem myself by attempting to do well in my clinical rotations and Step 2? Thank you!

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[Lexdiamondz]

Currently an MS2 (low-tier MD), and I was recently put on academic probation because I have to remediate due to failure to pass my exams. I am interested in gen surg/surgical subspecialties (keeping my interests broad still). I know that it's definitely not ideal to have a remediation, much less after I have already gone through 1 year of med school. My question is that since this will show up on my MSPE, will this automatically shut me off surgical subspecialties? Or can I still redeem myself by attempting to do well in my clinical rotations and Step 2? Thank you!

Honestly, it probably will. Being put on probation is a red flag - especially if you're pursuing a field where you're expected to perform well on in-service exams while working 80h/weekly.

 

[Pillows]

Honestly, it probably will. Being put on probation is a red flag - especially if you're pursuing a field where you're expected to perform well on in-service exams while working 80h/weekly.

Thank you for your honesty. Definitely sucks but I know I brought it on myself. I'm sure I can find something else that I like.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I agree unfortunately. In addition to being a big red flag by itself, this presumably drops you into the 3rd or 4th quartile of your class, which is also very important for these specialties.

Gen surg is still on the table, but you've really got to step up your game going forward. It is not a walk in the park specialty to apply to either.

 

[Pillows]

I agree unfortunately. In addition to being a big red flag by itself, this presumably drops you into the 3rd or 4th quartile of your class, which is also very important for these specialties.

Gen surg is still on the table, but you've really got to step up your game going forward. It is not a walk in the park specialty to apply to either.

That makes sense. It probably makes sense for me to start looking at other options too just in case. Would anesthesiology or radiology/IR be off the table as well?

 

[GoSpursGo]

That makes sense. It probably makes sense for me to start looking at other options too just in case. Would anesthesiology or radiology/IR be off the table as well?

IR is very competitive so that is off. Radiology may be, though the competitiveness of the specialty waxes and wanes.

Anesthesia I think is possible, though again you should try to make sure you keep your record spotless going forward.

 

[Pillows]

IR is very competitive so that is off. Radiology may be, though the competitiveness of the specialty waxes and wanes.

Anesthesia I think is possible, though again you should try to make sure you keep your record spotless going forward.

I will definitely shape up moving forward. Thank you for the advice!

 

[operaman]

Currently an MS2 (low-tier MD), and I was recently put on academic probation because I have to remediate due to failure to pass my exams. I am interested in gen surg/surgical subspecialties (keeping my interests broad still). I know that it's definitely not ideal to have a remediation, much less after I have already gone through 1 year of med school. My question is that since this will show up on my MSPE, will this automatically shut me off surgical subspecialties? Or can I still redeem myself by attempting to do well in my clinical rotations and Step 2? Thank you!

Yeah it’s a big red flag and the class rank drop and lack of AOA would hurt too.

Could this be overcome with an otherwise stellar performance? Maybe. Is someone who fails class exams and clearly has poor foundational knowledge likely to do well on shelves and steps? Not really. And can they do well while also putting in the time for research? Even tougher.

The wise move would be to focus on Gen surg and focus your efforts in that direction. Not only are you more likely to match assuming you do well going forward, but trying to pivot from a surgical sub to Gen surg last minute is not easy. Programs are understandably wary of the Ortho-bound student who discovers their love for the abdomen at the end of MS3.

 

[Pillows]

Yeah it’s a big red flag and the class rank drop and lack of AOA would hurt too.

Could this be overcome with an otherwise stellar performance? Maybe. Is someone who fails class exams and clearly has poor foundational knowledge likely to do well on shelves and steps? Not really. And can they do well while also putting in the time for research? Even tougher.

The wise move would be to focus on Gen surg and focus your efforts in that direction. Not only are you more likely to match assuming you do well going forward, but trying to pivot from a surgical sub to Gen surg last minute is not easy. Programs are understandably wary of the Ortho-bound student who discovers their love for the abdomen at the end of MS3.

I understand your point about me likely struggling with research on top of regular curriculum--is a research year something that I should consider?

 

[operaman]

I understand your point about me likely struggling with research on top of regular curriculum--is a research year something that I should consider?

Worth considering but will depend heavily on your specialty choice. If you’re already competitive for Gen surg or whatever you ultimately do, probably not worth the time. If you honor everything, ace your shelves and step 2, and your mentors are telling you that you’ve got a shot at a subspecialty you’re interested in, then maybe worth considering. You will still have the major red flag to overcome so there’s no guarantee of matching even with a research year.

 

[Pillows]

Worth considering but will depend heavily on your specialty choice. If you’re already competitive for Gen surg or whatever you ultimately do, probably not worth the time. If you honor everything, ace your shelves and step 2, and your mentors are telling you that you’ve got a shot at a subspecialty you’re interested in, then maybe worth considering. You will still have the major red flag to overcome so there’s no guarantee of matching even with a research year.

Makes sense. Thank you for the insight!

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

probably can still do FM, psych, neuro, pathology, radiation oncology, IM given the combo of low tier and academic probation

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Your focus at the moment needs to be on passing these exams. Don't get distracted by worrying about specialty choice right now.

Good clinical performance and a strong S2 score might help mitigate the situation. But none of that is going to matter if you don't address this issue head on.

 

[Pillows]

Your focus at the moment needs to be on passing these exams. Don't get distracted by worrying about specialty choice right now.

Good clinical performance and a strong S2 score might help mitigate the situation. But none of that is going to matter if you don't address this issue head on.

You're right, I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself. Thank you for the insight!

 

[filmfan10]

I just wanted to share my experience.

I had 2 friends that were put on academic probation in medical schools. They both had to repeat a year of medical school. However, they both still matched into Ophthalmology. They did a lot of research in between their years. One of them even went to do Ophthalmology at USC, which is a Top 10 program.

So is it possible to match into a competitive specialty? Yes. Will it be difficult? Yes. Is it doable? Yes.

I think your best option is to do as much research as possible. Try to network with faculty mentors. If you can do well from here on out, you have a chance. Also, getting strong recommendation letters will help.

I hope this helps.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I just wanted to share my experience.

I had 2 friends that were put on academic probation in medical schools. They both had to repeat a year of medical school. However, they both still matched into Ophthalmology. They did a lot of research in between their years. One of them even went to do Ophthalmology at USC, which is a Top 10 program.

So is it possible to match into a competitive specialty? Yes. Will it be difficult? Yes. Is it doable? Yes.

I think your best option is to do as much research as possible. Try to network with faculty mentors. If you can do well from here on out, you have a chance. Also, getting strong recommendation letters will help.

I hope this helps.

What tier of school though

 

[filmfan10]

Our school was a Mid-Tier school
We were ranked #43 last year in USNWR rankings.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I just wanted to share my experience.

I had 2 friends that were put on academic probation in medical schools. They both had to repeat a year of medical school. However, they both still matched into Ophthalmology. They did a lot of research in between their years. One of them even went to do Ophthalmology at USC, which is a Top 10 program.

So is it possible to match into a competitive specialty? Yes. Will it be difficult? Yes. Is it doable? Yes.

I think your best option is to do as much research as possible. Try to network with faculty mentors. If you can do well from here on out, you have a chance. Also, getting strong recommendation letters will help.

I hope this helps.

Great stories. If I may ask, does the school keep an internal class rank that is shared in the MSPE?

I will say, Ophtho is a bit of an odd specialty. They have their own application system, and while it is clearly "competitive" my general sense is that they also place a great deal of importance on demonstrated commitment to the field, connections, letters, etc. If I'm reading the rankings correctly, there was a three-way tie for 43rd last year, and one of those three institutions has been ranked 1st in ophthalmology for 19 years running... so if you are from that institution, that is a unique scenario where the connections afforded at your specific school for that specific specialty probably does not apply to the OP.

 

[Anonymous2399]

I am in a similar situation as you. Except I took a LOA for Step 1 (passed on first time). I feel like sdn might be over exaggerating. Optho might be stretch. But I would say IM, EM, FM, psych, peds, meds-peds, pysch, neuro, child neuro, path, radiology onc, and maybe PMR are still in play. Surgery might not be a viable option any more. Or at least I stopped thinking I was competitive for surgery lol . If you want someone to talk to about this just shoot me a message.

Also I have no idea why one poster above didn’t at least include peds, med-peds, and EM. Those aren’t hyper competitive specialities. And I know 2 people who failed Step 1 who matched child neurology (they were residencies that usually take IMGs and DOs but still)

 

[GoSpursGo]

I am in a similar situation as you. Except I took a LOA for Step 1 (passed on first time). I feel like sdn might be over exaggerating. Optho might be stretch. But I would say IM, EM, FM, psych, peds, meds-peds, pysch, neuro, child neuro, path, radiology onc, and maybe PMR are still in play. Surgery might not be a viable option any more. Or at least I stopped thinking I was competitive for surgery lol . If you want someone to talk to about this just shoot me a message.

Also I have no idea why one poster above didn’t at least include peds, med-peds, and EM. Those aren’t hyper competitive specialities. And I know 2 people who failed Step 1 who matched child neurology (they were residencies that usually take IMGs and DOs but still)

Well the OP specifically asked about surgical subspecialties, which is why our answers have focused on that. Nobody said that the specialties that you listed were off the table. I don't think that @voxveritatisetlucis 's list was intended to be exhaustive.

 

[Anonymous2399]

Well the OP specifically asked about surgical subspecialties, which is why our answers have focused on that. Nobody said that the specialties that you listed were off the table. I don't think that @voxveritatisetlucis 's list was intended to be exhaustive.

Ya sorry I guess I took the list to seriously. I was just trying to list options to make the thread seem less doom and gloom. There are a lot of cool specialties outside of surgical specialties that offer good lifestyles.

 

[filmfan10]

Great stories. If I may ask, does the school keep an internal class rank that is shared in the MSPE?

I will say, Ophtho is a bit of an odd specialty. They have their own application system, and while it is clearly "competitive" my general sense is that they also place a great deal of importance on demonstrated commitment to the field, connections, letters, etc. If I'm reading the rankings correctly, there was a three-way tie for 43rd last year, and one of those three institutions has been ranked 1st in ophthalmology for 19 years running... so if you are from that institution, that is a unique scenario where the connections afforded at your specific school for that specific specialty probably does not apply to the OP.

Yes. We did attend that particular school. And they do have a very renowned ophthalmology residency.

We were told that we were divided into quartiles

 

[filmfan10]

Currently an MS2 (low-tier MD), and I was recently put on academic probation because I have to remediate due to failure to pass my exams. I am interested in gen surg/surgical subspecialties (keeping my interests broad still). I know that it's definitely not ideal to have a remediation, much less after I have already gone through 1 year of med school. My question is that since this will show up on my MSPE, will this automatically shut me off surgical subspecialties? Or can I still redeem myself by attempting to do well in my clinical rotations and Step 2? Thank you!

OP, I know this is anecdotal.

I had another medical school friend that had to repeat a year. He still ended up matching to Anesthesiology. He did a Pain fellowship afterwards. And that is a competitive fellowship.

So it can be done if you do well on clinical rotations

 

[Pillows]

OP, I know this is anecdotal.

I had another medical school friend that had to repeat a year. He still ended up matching to Anesthesiology. He did a Pain fellowship afterwards. And that is a competitive fellowship.

So it can be done if you do well on clinical rotations

Thank you for your encouraging words

 

[Pillows]

Not to mention that you don’t magically go from probation to scoring a 270 on step 2

I don't think there's any need to keep reiterating that I'm not the best med student out there. I have accepted, and agreed with the feedback/advice given to me. I am working with academic support at my school to help me address my shortcomings first, and worry about specialties later.

 

[texasvandy]

Can someone apply successfully to residency while being on academic probation with a note that says they need to complete more sub i rotations as remediation?

 

[operaman]

Can someone apply successfully to residency while being on academic probation with a note that says they need to complete more sub i rotations as remediation?

What field?

Definitely doesn’t look good. Would suck to match someone who then failed to graduate. I can imagine most programs being very wary. Best bet would be your home program if you’re well liked since they would know you better and maybe understand if there were extenuating circumstances.

 

[gyngyn]

Can someone apply successfully to residency while being on academic probation with a note that says they need to complete more sub i rotations as remediation?

For the most part, no.

 

[texasvandy]

What field?

Definitely doesn’t look good. Would suck to match someone who then failed to graduate. I can imagine most programs being very wary. Best bet would be your home program if you’re well liked since they would know you better and maybe understand if there were extenuating circumstances.

Which fields wont make a difference? Surgery, IM, psychiatry neurology under consideration.

 

[operaman]

Oh it’s makes a difference in all fields. It was more of a no chance versus snowballs chance in hades kind of thing.

Truth is your best bet is to defer applying for a year. Maybe a bottom basement IM or neuro program might give you a shot, but everyone else is going to see this not only as a huge red flag, but as a sign you may not graduate and they’d be short a resident come July. Nobody wants to take that risk if they can help it.

Alternatively, you could look for positions outside the match later in the year once you’re off probation. Pickings are slim but you might get lucky.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If you're on probation and the fix is more SubI's, you've got more problems than worrying about matching. You're in the process of failing out of medical school if you don't address your issues. Much also depends on the issues for which this decision has been made.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Make sure you graduate… then take what you can get. Aim low and hope for the best.

Even in the lucrative field like pediatrics, academic probation is pretty much a “do not rank”.