Academic Medicine

[begoood95]

Hey everyone,

There are threads about academic medicine, though most seem old (or limited), so I'd like to get a new perspective on a couple questions I have.

1. What would be an average day in the life of physician in academic medicine? Obviously, this is going to vary, but what avenues might s/he explore on a day to day basis, or over their lifetime as a physician?
2. I don't want to be an MD/PhD -- because I want to see more patients on average -- but I do love research, even basic science research. Would academic medicine allow me to find some balance between the two? i.e., Would I have a level of autonomy that would allow me to choose my own balance of research and clinic?
3. In addition to being a physician (serving patients, and etc.) I would like to be on the forefront of the development of and leadership in healthcare. In other words, I wouldn't mind taking an administrative role, one in which decisions impact patients on a wider scope. Would academic medicine facilitate this?
4. Am I mistaken to assume that, in general, most academic physicians work in the hospital setting?
5. More into the future of my career, I wouldn't mind becoming a professor, or teaching clinical skills in my specialty. Would academic medicine also open up such avenues?

I used to think I wanted an MD/PhD, because I really love the research I'm doing as an undergraduate, though the more I thought about it the more I realized I couldn't go without the patient contact -- at least not to the extent that MD/PhD physicians primarily focused on research do. What I'm thinking is academic medicine might suit me the most, and want some clarity on this before I start this application cycle. Thanks for your help!

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[1forrest1]

following because academic med is my goal- also do you need to go to a top school to get into academic medicine


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[begoood95]

following because academic med is my goal- also do you need to go to a top school to get into academic medicine


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We need knawledge!

Also, as is usually the answer to "top" vs. "not-top" programs, I wouldn't think you need acceptance into a top program to go into academic medicine -- but I'm sure it helps in some respects, like higher-up or "privileged" administrative roles at well-known institutions. Of course, your work speaks for itself, but top-programs, I imagine, facilitate the achievement of "better" work with their access to resources/people.

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[LizzyM]

Physicians in academic medicine have a role in teaching, research and patient care in some combination.

Teaching can mean a variety of things. Some are paid but most are not. It can mean having students with you one half day every other week to learn clinical skills and to see patients with you. It can mean being a small group leader for PBL or other team based learning. It can mean advising and supervising a medical student who is doing a little research study which might be as simple as a survey of other students or of physicians. It can mean mentoring dozens of students over several years in exchange for a portion of your salary. It can mean giving two or three lectures every year on your area of expertise as part of an class for medical students, for residents, for fellows or even for other attending physicians (Grand Rounds, for example, may be attended by everyone at every level of training from M3 up through retired faculty). It can mean being a course director and setting up the syllabus and inviting the lecturers for the course and selecting the questions for the final exam (questions are often provided by the guest lecturers). Teaching can mean having students, residents and or fellows with you as you make rounds and hear their reports of the patients and discuss the results of tests and the management of the patients conditions. This teaching can take place in an outpatient or inpatient setting and can mean being available for phone calls overnight. It may also involve supervising or standing by as trainees perform procedures which could include overnight duty. Typically, an attending physician has periods of time when they are "on service" supervising trainees and times when they are not and the teaching demands are far less.

Patient care is pretty self-explanatory. It can take place in an ambulatory (outpatient) or inpatient setting. It can include the care of patients in a nursing home or other residential setting. It can including being "on call" or not. Hospitalists limit their care to patients in the hospital although some also see patients in a clinic setting for pre-op clearance but don't have any ongoing responsibility for their care. Patient care pays well and so academic physicians are under tremendous pressure to take a heavy patient care load.

Research requires time off from your clinical duties. That means getting salary support in the form of grants or contracts to conduct research. In some cases, it might not be much money but it doesn't take much time and can be done while you are seeing patients. Most of what I see is research sponsored by pharmaceutical companies, or by the federal government or by collaborative groups of researchers who work together to develop a protocol (oncology has a bunch of these collaborative groups who write protocols to test drugs in different types of cancer). As a physician caring for patients with disease X, you may have an interest in testing new drugs for that disease and you may be the local PI in a research study that is testing a specific new drug, or a combination of drugs, in patients. There are other physicians interested in more basic questions such as the interaction of genes and environment which may, for example, explain more or less severe manifestations of disease X. These docs may be enrolling patients as subjects in a research study, collecting tissue samples, and running samples in the lab and/or supervising underlings who do the hands on work. These docs might work hand in hand with PhDs -- the doc makes the diagnosis, characterizes the disease, and collects the samples, and the PhD and team do the bench research.

Finally, there are administrative tasks that physicians can take on in helping to run a medical school. There are division chiefs who handle a subset of the physicians in a department, department chairs, Associate and Assistant Deans by the carload, and then the Dean. The responsibilities at that level include developing policies, hiring faculty, budgets (together with administrative personnel), space issues (offices, clinical space, lab space), fund raising, research grants and productivity, clinical affiliations and business agreements with hospitals and clinics, etc.

Look to see where the current Deans and Department chairs of schools you are interested in went to medical school. I used to joke that most of the people who went into academic medicine either went to inexpensive (public) medical schools or they married money.

 

[begoood95]

Physicians in academic medicine have a role in teaching, research and patient care in some combination.

Teaching can mean a variety of things. Some are paid but most are not. It can mean having students with you one half day every other week to learn clinical skills and to see patients with you. It can mean being a small group leader for PBL or other team based learning. It can mean advising and supervising a medical student who is doing a little research study which might be as simple as a survey of other students or of physicians. It can mean mentoring dozens of students over several years in exchange for a portion of your salary. It can mean giving two or three lectures every year on your area of expertise as part of an class for medical students, for residents, for fellows or even for other attending physicians (Grand Rounds, for example, may be attended by everyone at every level of training from M3 up through retired faculty). It can mean being a course director and setting up the syllabus and inviting the lecturers for the course and selecting the questions for the final exam (questions are often provided by the guest lecturers). Teaching can mean having students, residents and or fellows with you as you make rounds and hear their reports of the patients and discuss the results of tests and the management of the patients conditions. This teaching can take place in an outpatient or inpatient setting and can mean being available for phone calls overnight. It may also involve supervising or standing by as trainees perform procedures which could include overnight duty. Typically, an attending physician has periods of time when they are "on service" supervising trainees and times when they are not and the teaching demands are far less.

Patient care is pretty self-explanatory. It can take place in an ambulatory (outpatient) or inpatient setting. It can include the care of patients in a nursing home or other residential setting. It can including being "on call" or not. Hospitalists limit their care to patients in the hospital although some also see patients in a clinic setting for pre-op clearance but don't have any ongoing responsibility for their care. Patient care pays well and so academic physicians are under tremendous pressure to take a heavy patient care load.

Research requires time off from your clinical duties. That means getting salary support in the form of grants or contracts to conduct research. In some cases, it might not be much money but it doesn't take much time and can be done while you are seeing patients. Most of what I see is research sponsored by pharmaceutical companies, or by the federal government or by collaborative groups of researchers who work together to develop a protocol (oncology has a bunch of these collaborative groups who write protocols to test drugs in different types of cancer). As a physician caring for patients with disease X, you may have an interest in testing new drugs for that disease and you may be the local PI in a research study that is testing a specific new drug, or a combination of drugs, in patients. There are other physicians interested in more basic questions such as the interaction of genes and environment which may, for example, explain more or less severe manifestations of disease X. These docs may be enrolling patients as subjects in a research study, collecting tissue samples, and running samples in the lab and/or supervising underlings who do the hands on work. These docs might work hand in hand with PhDs -- the doc makes the diagnosis, characterizes the disease, and collects the samples, and the PhD and team do the bench research.

Finally, there are administrative tasks that physicians can take on in helping to run a medical school. There are division chiefs who handle a subset of the physicians in a department, department chairs, Associate and Assistant Deans by the carload, and then the Dean. The responsibilities at that level include developing policies, hiring faculty, budgets (together with administrative personnel), space issues (offices, clinical space, lab space), fund raising, research grants and productivity, clinical affiliations and business agreements with hospitals and clinics, etc.

Look to see where the current Deans and Department chairs of schools you are interested in went to medical school. I used to joke that most of the people who went into academic medicine either went to inexpensive (public) medical schools or they married money.

Holy thread killer. That answered virtually all my questions and more! You even read my mind, throwing in some observations about research in oncology (a field I'm attracted to as of now). Thank you!

A blend of any of the avenues you mentioned was exactly what I had in mind. Do academic physicians generally enjoy a relative amount of autonomy, such that their balance of research/teaching/clinic is up to them? It would primarily depend on the mission of the school, right?

Also... I guess I'll have to marry someone who's wealthy, since I'm looking at mostly out-of-state, private institutions

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[LizzyM]

Most clinicians are going to be encouraged to get paid to see patients, to lecture or supervise trainees as a "good citizen" of the university, and to pursue grants or contracts if wishing to do more than a modicum of research. Your grantsmanship and your ability to attract research contracts will dictate how much research you get to do. The time that isn't filled by research needs to be filled with patient care unless you get one the rare gigs supervising a large number of students. (e.g. a clerkship director may get some salary support and some free time in the schedule to supervise and evaluate M3 students as they rotate through that clerkship).

 

[Goro]

Don't forget committee work...there's always a damn committee that needs you. IRB, promotion, Student Conduct, IACUC, Awards and scholarships, Admissions...it never ends. LizzyM knows.

Most clinicians are going to be encouraged to get paid to see patients, to lecture or supervise trainees as a "good citizen" of the university, and to pursue grants or contracts if wishing to do more than a modicum of research. Your grantsmanship and your ability to attract research contracts will dictate how much research you get to do. The time that isn't filled by research needs to be filled with patient care unless you get one the rare gigs supervising a large number of students. (e.g. a clerkship director may get some salary support and some free time in the schedule to supervise and evaluate M3 students as they rotate through that clerkship).

 

[1forrest1]

Does this mean going to an expensive private school may make going into academic med difficult due to loans?


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[LizzyM]

Don't forget committee work...there's always a damn committee that needs you. IRB, promotion, Student Conduct, IACUC, Awards and scholarships, Admissions...it never ends. LizzyM knows.

How could I forget! That's more "good citizenship" meaning you do it in addition to your regular duties for no pay. There are some situations where the administration will provide salary support ("buy your time") so that you actually have paid time for that service but that is a rare situation.

 

[Pusheen]

following because academic med is my goal- also do you need to go to a top school to get into academic medicine


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@LizzyM could you touch on this? The bigger question, is academic medicine competitive to get into and should that influence our school selection?

 

[LizzyM]

Does this mean going to an expensive private school may make going into academic med difficult due to loans?


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Yes, which is why you go to an expensive private school or do a residency somewhere where you are likely to meet and marry a rich spouse.

At some schools, pedigree matters but I've been surprised sometimes at people who have climbed the ladder having come out of a medical school far below our own but often having matched well for residency.

 

[Doctor.Zoidberg]

Is there any path on which one can teach in some format and see patients, but not feel pressured to do research?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Is there any path on which one can teach in some format and see patients, but not feel pressured to do research?

Yes, but how you get there varies by institution and specialty

 

[Pusheen]

Is there any path on which one can teach in some format and see patients, but not feel pressured to do research?

Lol, that would be too perfect

 

[LizzyM]

Is there any path on which one can teach in some format and see patients, but not feel pressured to do research?

Absolutely. You are going to need a little bit of a portfolio of research productivity in fellowship training to land a medical school appointment but these days patient care pays better than research and with research grants being more difficult to get than a winning lottery ticket, the schools aren't putting a lot of pressure on clinicians to do research if they'd rather do patient care.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Also academic medicine is such a broad umbrella term that encompasses so many practice styles. Here are some of the possible things that academic medicine entails:

• Working with residents
• Working with medical students clinically
• Teaching medical students didactically
• Doing basic research
• Doing clinical research
• Giving lectures sometimes
• Not working with either medical students or residents
• Feeding patients to other people who are doing clinical research
• Doing public health / business / law / insert other academic endeavor here work, research, or teaching

You're not doing all of these

 

[begoood95]

Most clinicians are going to be encouraged to get paid to see patients, to lecture or supervise trainees as a "good citizen" of the university, and to pursue grants or contracts if wishing to do more than a modicum of research. Your grantsmanship and your ability to attract research contracts will dictate how much research you get to do.....

Don't forget committee work...there's always a damn committee that needs you. IRB, promotion, Student Conduct, IACUC, Awards and scholarships, Admissions...it never ends. LizzyM knows.

How could I forget! That's more "good citizenship" meaning you do it in addition to your regular duties for no pay. There are some situations where the administration will provide salary support ("buy your time") so that you actually have paid time for that service but that is a rare situation.

So it seems like a person going into academic medicine -- like all physicians -- really shouldn't care too much about their compensation. While I'm sure you're not going to be poor, academic medicine seems to be less lucrative (in terms of money) than being a physician who practices full-time, but better than an MD/PhD. I guess one has to genuinely find value in and be fulfilled by the type of "good citizenry" work @Goro and @LizzyM describe. To me, from your comments, it seems like a balance is possible, but just needs dedication and the right program. That's good to know.

Yes, which is why you go to an expensive private school or do a residency somewhere where you are likely to meet and marry a rich spouse.

At some schools, pedigree matters but I've been surprised sometimes at people who have climbed the ladder having come out of a medical school far below our own but often having matched well for residency.

This is the first time I've seen any of you the adcomms say conclusively that going to a "top" program is, in a sense, imperative to someone's aspirations. Interesting!

@WedgeDawg your list is what I expected. Would any of you recommend at least mentioning academic medicine in some part of the application? I know Stanford explicitly asks in their secondary (rather, gives you some choices, of which academic medicine is one), but if they don't, would doing so be beneficial?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Mention it if you want but it's not really going to carry much impact because who the hell knows whether or not premeds know what they want before they're even in med school. It's not really going to help or hurt your application in most cases.

 

[begoood95]

Mention it if you want but it's not really going to carry much impact because who the hell knows whether or not premeds know what they want before they're even in med school. It's not really going to help or hurt your application in most cases.

I figured. I guess the only "helpful" impact that it could have is showing some sort of resolve... but unexperienced resolve doesn't really mean anything, so like you said, I doubt much would come of it, good or bad. On a side note, it'd be interesting to conduct a study that traces students' desires to go into certain fields over time, i.e. in the undergraduate years through MS4/residency. I wonder how strong prior opinions actually correlate (or don't) with actual specialization...

 

[Goro]

To follow up on my wise young colleague, most pre-meds have no idea what academic medicine really entails, only that they like the term. It's one of those starry eye inducers, like "clinical research".

Mention it if you want but it's not really going to carry much impact because who the hell knows whether or not premeds know what they want before they're even in med school. It's not really going to help or hurt your application in most cases.

 

[Shirafune]

I figured. I guess the only "helpful" impact that it could have is showing some sort of resolve... but unexperienced resolve doesn't really mean anything, so like you said, I doubt much would come of it, good or bad. On a side note, it'd be interesting to conduct a study that traces students' desires to go into certain fields over time, i.e. in the undergraduate years through MS4/residency. I wonder how strong prior opinions actually correlate (or don't) with actual specialization...

https://acd.od.nih.gov/reports/psw_report_acd_06042014.pdf

If you or anybody else is interested in NIH funding trends for physician scientists, the physician scientist workforce report is a good resource to at least skim through. It's pretty grim, and anybody that's participated in academia knows how hard getting funding is. See Figure 3.21: only 14% of first-time NIH grant MD applicants got awarded in 2012. 28.7% of experienced MDs got funded that same year. So for every grant awarded to a first-timer, roughly 9 other applications were denied. Imagine the competition when there has already been a significant amount of selection by that level.

Many other interesting graphs to look at as well.

 

[1forrest1]

is there any hope for it improving? you would think with all the public health threats from drug resistance to emerging infectious diseases that research funding would be a priority.


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[Lucca]

is there any hope for it improving? you would think with all the public health threats from drug resistance to emerging infectious diseases that research funding would be a priority.


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Who knows? You would think lots of priorities would be very different than they are....

I like to think that one of the few benefits of a very long training pathway is that it is just long enough to have no idea what the other side is going to be like. If the government actually implements that MD/PhD only K-like grant and increases the Loan Repayment Program's funding while extending it to include clinical researchers as well basic scientists then things might look up. As long as RVUs are king, translational and basic science costs keep rising, and funding stays lean though, we're probably just paddling upstream.

 

[LizzyM]

So it seems like a person going into academic medicine -- like all physicians -- really shouldn't care too much about their compensation. While I'm sure you're not going to be poor, academic medicine seems to be less lucrative (in terms of money) than being a physician who practices full-time, but better than an MD/PhD. I guess one has to genuinely find value in and be fulfilled by the type of "good citizenry" work @Goro and @LizzyM describe. To me, from your comments, it seems like a balance is possible, but just needs dedication and the right program. That's good to know.



This is the first time I've seen any of you the adcomms say conclusively that going to a "top" program is, in a sense, imperative to someone's aspirations. Interesting!

@WedgeDawg your list is what I expected. Would any of you recommend at least mentioning academic medicine in some part of the application? I know Stanford explicitly asks in their secondary (rather, gives you some choices, of which academic medicine is one), but if they don't, would doing so be beneficial?

What I was trying to say is that if you go to an expensive program, you should plan to marry money (go to a school or a residency where you are likely to meet someone with money) if you want a career in academic medicine. Of course, I'm kidding (mostly) but the fact is if you go to a "top program" that leaves you in debt, it will be difficult to choose a career such as academic medicine, that is not as lucrative as private practice.

 

[Shirafune]

is there any hope for it improving? you would think with all the public health threats from drug resistance to emerging infectious diseases that research funding would be a priority.


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For antibiotics (and other antimicrobials), resistance can develop quickly. It takes a ton of money to develop a drug, so the drug must target a disease with a large patient population and be efficacious for long enough. There's no financial incentive for pharmaceutical companies (more so for the NIH since there's less funding) to develop a new antibiotic which may quickly become ineffective.

In Better, Atul Gawande talks about how to improve care with the technology we already have (i.e. the method and execution of care). IMO, figuring out how to minimize the spread of antibiotic resistance within a hospital will be more cost effective for research dollars than the drug development pipeline. If a patient develops an infection resistant to many antibiotics, how do we minimize transmission of that strain through hospital protocols and provider interaction? Increase vigilance? Employ more precautionary measures? Isolate patients to a specific ward within the hospital? Something to think about.

 

[1forrest1]

Great reference I'll be sure to read it! Any other suggestions for books to read? I'm serious as a premed undergrad I know alot less than I would like to know, and I've been trying to read about current events/the state of healthcare


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[mimelim]

What I was trying to say is that if you go to an expensive program, you should plan to marry money (go to a school or a residency where you are likely to meet someone with money) if you want a career in academic medicine. Of course, I'm kidding (mostly) but the fact is if you go to a "top program" that leaves you in debt, it will be difficult to choose a career such as academic medicine, that is not as lucrative as private practice.

I disagree, I don't think that it is a difficult choice to make. I honestly think that the vast majority of people who, "want to go into academic medicine", have no idea what it entails and more importantly have no idea what private practice is like. The majority of medical students spent their undergrad, medical school and residency at major academic centers. That is 11-15 years of primarily being exposed to academic medicine where the vast majority of role models and mentors are academics. While the money in private practice is better, I really think that the real driver is the lack of real interest in pursuing academics. Few who end up in medical school enjoy research, teaching or administrative responsibilities. Thus, it isn't what they are actually looking for when it comes to hunt for jobs in their late 20s and 30s. PSFL also exists, which certainly does not cut the gap with private practice, does make things fairly palatable.

 

[Shirafune]

I disagree, I don't think that it is a difficult choice to make. I honestly think that the vast majority of people who, "want to go into academic medicine", have no idea what it entails and more importantly have no idea what private practice is like. The majority of medical students spent their undergrad, medical school and residency at major academic centers. That is 11-15 years of primarily being exposed to academic medicine where the vast majority of role models and mentors are academics. While the money in private practice is better, I really think that the real driver is the lack of real interest in pursuing academics. Few who end up in medical school enjoy research, teaching or administrative responsibilities. Thus, it isn't what they are actually looking for when it comes to hunt for jobs in their late 20s and 30s. PSFL also exists, which certainly does not cut the gap with private practice, does make things fairly palatable.

Is there any difference in motivation comparing medical specialties like IM or Peds and procedure-driven specialties which tend to be more competitive? Does a smaller fraction of IM or Peds grads enter academics due to financial constraints? Perhaps high paying specialties like ortho or derm include the more research inclined simply due to selection earlier in the education pipeline? Does the relative amount of academic positions vary significantly between specialties? Just curious on your take on some of these aspects.

Also, what would you consider significant exposure prior to medical school to warrant a realistic impression of academic medicine? Is it even possible?

Great reference I'll be sure to read it! Any other suggestions for books to read? I'm serious as a premed undergrad I know alot less than I would like to know, and I've been trying to read about current events/the state of healthcare


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Atul Gawande books are always a great place to start. He dissects medicine into approachable themes, many of which are common problems in the contemporary healthcare system.

I personally enjoyed Being Mortal by Atul Gawande a lot. It focuses on empowering patients through shared decision-making to ensure medicine provides at the philosophical core of returning quality of life.

 

[mimelim]

Is there any difference in motivation comparing medical specialties like IM or Peds and procedure-driven specialties which tend to be more competitive? Does a smaller fraction of IM or Peds grads enter academics due to financial constraints? Perhaps high paying specialties like ortho or derm include the more research inclined simply due to selection earlier in the education pipeline? Does the relative amount of academic positions vary significantly between specialties? Just curious on your take on some of these aspects.

Also, what would you consider significant exposure prior to medical school to warrant a realistic impression of academic medicine? Is it even possible?

I don't think there is a huge difference between the specialties because the variables are independent. The attraction of academics is largely unrelated to individual specialties. I am unaware of any direct data to support that people in higher paying specialties are more likely to go into academics. In my limited first hand experience, it is the opposite. It is hard to find ortho/derm faculty because private practice is so lucrative and the 'types' of people that go into them are no as academically inclined or are more financially oriented in the first place (why they went into the specialty). The relative number of academic positions varies based on what academic facilities can support. For example, in order to support 1 vascular surgeon, you need a ton (think ~20-30) of cardiologists. Thus, you will tend to have less of certain specialties, just like in private practice.

Regarding exposure, I misspoke in my previous post. I think that most people have plenty of exposure to academic medicine. They just don't know what the other options are until later in their training. They are likely unaware of the administrative, committee, grant writing etc. time spent by academics, but overall, I think that the average student has pretty decent exposure.

 

[HuskyMD Emeritus]

Short answer is you can do all of the above. Time, finances, scope of responsibilities, your life outside of medicine will factor into what you become involved with.

Medical schools have volunteer clinical faculty who round with the housestaff and attend in the clinics. I was clinical assistant professor at one of the local medical schools for a number of years but my own practice got too busy plus I took on administrative responsibilities. Which leads to the next topic. If you are in a large group or hospital, there are committees you can be involved with and before you know it, you may be drafted into more substantial responsibilities. I was “drafted” and have been the chief of pulmonary for the past 14-15 years, with several years also doubling as the ICU director. While medical centers and groups vary, I will tell you your practice, on call duties and patient panel remain the same, meaning you will have a lot more work to do with much less time. I spent many hours after the last patient dealing with administrative stuff (without extra pay). The medical center where I work does have a residency program, so I am involving with teaching as an attending both in the ICU and in my clinic, and also have given lectures. All these take time, but teaching is fun, and is satisfying to know I am helping develop the next generation of doctors (who may one day be my doctor).

 

[maplecookie]

Hello,

Sorry to pull up an old thread but I had a few questions about the research component of academic medicine.

Is it possible to do research without your own grant? Considering how hard it is to get a grant, is it possible just to research as a collaborator in an academic institution? Also, by doing so would that be part of “research requirements” if that is part of your contract with the institution or would that be considered “on your own time”/unpaid time

 

[Lucca]

Hello,

Sorry to pull up an old thread but I had a few questions about the research component of academic medicine.

Is it possible to do research without your own grant? Considering how hard it is to get a grant, is it possible just to research as a collaborator in an academic institution? Also, by doing so would that be part of “research requirements” if that is part of your contract with the institution or would that be considered “on your own time”/unpaid time

I’ve had colleagues with MDs who collaborate with the lab on their own time. Usually to get prelim data and publications to apply for their own grant. Many clinicians in science do 80/20 by which I mean they do 100% clinical and 30% research on their own time. Clinical research is always easier to do on your own time than basic science which requires consumables, potentially staff, and access to equipment and facilities, not to mention time to do experiments.

You buy the institution’s time with grant money. Maybe you can find a job where they give you protected time and space as a startup without your own grant but maybe someone will just hand you a million dollars if you bump into them on the street. There are detailed discussions on grants, research effort, and physician scientist career trajectories (MD, PhD to MD, and MD/PHD) on the Physician Scientist forum. That is probably a more appropriate board for a technical question such as this.

 

[maplecookie]

I’ve had colleagues with MDs who collaborate with the lab on their own time. Usually to get prelim data and publications to apply for their own grant. Many clinicians in science do 80/20 by which I mean they do 100% clinical and 30% research on their own time. Clinical research is always easier to do on your own time than basic science which requires consumables, potentially staff, and access to equipment and facilities, not to mention time to do experiments.

You buy the institution’s time with grant money. Maybe you can find a job where they give you protected time and space as a startup without your own grant but maybe someone will just hand you a million dollars if you bump into them on the street. There are detailed discussions on grants, research effort, and physician scientist career trajectories (MD, PhD to MD, and MD/PHD) on the Physician Scientist forum. That is probably a more appropriate board for a technical question such as this.

Got it, thank you for your answer!