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ArrogantSurgeon

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I've always wondered what this exam consists of. Some people have told me it can be heavy on basic science (e.g. USMLE Step I suff) while others have told me it is more specific toward the clinical practice of surgery, which makes a lot more sense since why would they test again on the basic science you've already covered and passed in the USMLE I?

If anybody has actually taken or knows about this exam, could you share your experience with it and what was covered. Thanks.
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The ABS exams (written & oral) are almost exclusively clinical related although the oral one can veer off any # of directions depending upon the examiner. The ABSITE in-training exam you take yearly during residency contains a fair # of basic-science related to those on the USMLE exams
 
Yeah, we got the typical first day speech, about reading Schwartz or Sabaston cover to cover starting day one of internship. Seriously whats the best approach to studying for the ABSITE in January?
 
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Are there any question and answer books for the ABSITE? Along the lines of the Pretest books for USMLE???
 
Reading Schwart/Sabistan are not productive ways of studying for the ABSITE in my opinion. There's just too much filler in those kind of textbooks. Cameron's "Current Surgical Therapy" is a much more focused text which is easier reading. Ironically, the Advanced Surgical Recall book that you get as a student is excellent for reviewing many of the areas covered (cytokines, transplant immunology, endocrine tumors, nutrition, oncogenes, hand) on the test that you don't use clinically very often. THIS IS A GREAT RESOURCE & THE BEST WAY TO IMPROVE YOUR SCORE WHEN REVIEWED SHORTLY BEFORE THE TEST. I also think you should scan thru as many of the journals you get for free (contemporary surgery, surgical times,etc...) & read the summaries of up to date tx. of common problems that are often included in those journals. Michigan state prints a review each year based on the ?'s given the year before- it's ok but pricey & its real value is mostly getting an idea of the areas that they retest frequently which you wouldn't expect (ie. endocrine tumor clusters like MEN-I) to be so heavily weighted.
 
thank you- I was about to ask the same question myself. I have been going to the bookstore and library when I have some downtime and can't yet decide which text I want to buy (I'm dragging my heels before forking out a couple hundred dollars.)
 
The raw score is probably less important than the percentile - 80th percentile among your class level is a good goal. For plastics, you don't have to do a dedicated year of research but you do have to complete *some* sort of project so it's just easier for people to take the time off. Good luck!
 
I know there are some programs that require an ABSITE score above the 20th percentile every year, but then I've heard there are some programs that require a score equal to or greater than the 50th percentile or they'll put you on probation the first time you don't achieve this and then not renew your contract if you don't get this score the next time around.

Anybody know which programs these are? Are there any programs that require an ABSITE score higher than the 50th percentile? Also, are there any programs that will advance you to the next year regardless of your ABSITE score??
 
Seems like these days most programs don't admit to holding strict standards, but many do have them, they just dont' talk about it.

Usually, if you're otherwise a good resident, programs will give you a break, but if they don't like your performance in general, ABSITE score can be used as a reason to fire you.
 
I thought programs weren't supposed to use your ABSITE scores to determine progression through the years (not that they don't but it wasn't designed for that and the RRC doesn't "condone" doing so).

Anyway, if we had to have 50% (or frankly even 20%) across the board, we'd have no residents!
 
This actually very funny. There are alot of PDs who like reference a study that correlate absite and probability of pass the boards. They always claim that if you always get over 40%-tile on the absite. your chance of pass the boards is almost 100% and those below that is about ~40%. Using this "fact", they like the residents to be over 50%-tile.

Most places have this unwritten rule (sometime it is written in black and white). However, most do not enforce it.
It is very difficult to fire a resident because of absite score, but they can alway hold you back (I have seen that many times).
 
The ABS says specifically that the ABSITE is not to be used to determine whether a resident should either be held back in their residency, or fired. However, I do know specifically of individuals at one program (two people) that were fired for being under the 50th percentile two years in a row on the ABSITE (my program isn't one of them). Those two residents were then hired at other programs in the same city, which goes to show that certainly not everyone puts a lot of stock in the results of a test. Our program assigns residents to "individual study programs" if they do poorly on a consistent basis.

Timely topic, since the test is tomorrow (1/31). Fortunately the last time I have to take it...then I just have that really easy written board exam to look forward to.

pete
:smuggrin:
 
MUSC requires above 20% to advance
 
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Hey SDNers....this question is for all the surgical interns (prelim or categorical) out there. I just matched into ENT and my program happens to require 18 months of a surgery intern year. I'm wondering whether or not surgery interns that are prelim for other residencies such as ENT, Urology, Neurosurg, etc. are required to take the ABSITE in their intern year or at all? Anyways, I'm definitely enjoying the last half of 4th year. I've been pretty stoked since match day, but am coming to realize that I'm in for quite a bit of pain come July!
 
Congratulations on the match- now go out and celebrate!

Depends on the program whether or not you have to take the absite (as a designated or non-designated prelim.) Where I went to medical school, they did, but at my current program, they do not.
 
Depends on the program I guess (which suprises me because I thought everyone took it, even those designated Prelims),

At any rate, here all Prelims and Categoricals take it, even those in the lab, and by report, the various subspecialty departments ask that the Prelims don't "blow it off", ie, they expect them to do well.
 
Hi there,
Every surgery intern was expected to take the ABSITE though one intern who is going into Optho got a special "bye" from his department chairman. Even the guys going into Radiology took the ABSITE but most didn't really care about their score.

njbmd:D
 
Dear friends.

Is ABSITE score is important to find further residency. For example after preliminary year to find PGY2 or categorical spot? IF yes, is it more important than STEPs scores or not.

Also does ABSITE scores have any role for Fellowship spots?
thanks
 
Fellowships see your absite scores... most of them also want your USMLE scores but that is usually just to see that you passed (i think).
 
Does anyone know where I can purchase a copy of the ABSITE Killer?
 
I've also looked for this book online and haven't been able to find a copy for sale. :(
 
Any opinions from those who've taken the ABSITE re: the usefullness of the Michigan State ABSITE Review?
 
Haven't used that one. But I wanted to jump in and get this absite thread going some more.

How much is everyone studying, both throughout the year and this month?

What books are the favorite ones? (maybe a little too late for this year, but a good time to talk about it so we can think of what to get next year)

Please add to this discussion, since I know this little exam is on most of our minds a for the next couple weeks.
 
Rush Review: Hard to read through. Very dense. It's good if you can retain it and have a few spare months of time to to actually finish it.

Mich State Review: Fair. It has some good points, but only touches on a few points per subject. A very quick read if you can get over the amount of paper/page space they waste and the 15 typos they have per paragraph. They may be surgeons, but writers they are not. It's called "spell check"; use it.

The Absite Review: Just came out this year. Can buy it through amazon. I am quite impressed. It touches on basically everything that can be tested on for Absite purposes and you can read it in less than a week.

Absite Killer: Best "high yield", "read during 2 call nights" text there is. Out of print, hard to find. Pretty much everything this says will show up on the Absite in one form or another. I don't have copies of it so don't ask me for one.

Pass The Absite (Q&A): Uh. read it. it's .. eh. You can read it in a few hours. Not sure if I retained anything from it.
 
Since we're already talking about the ABSITE...

I've heard some old-school programs used to boot out residents who didn't do well on the ABSITE (i.e. their contract was not renewed if they got below 50%). This seems a bit harsh and I'm wondering if these programs still exist or if this is just another surgical urban legend (like the urban legend about that one general surgery resident who wasn't jaded and had plenty of time for his family and friends)?
 
ABSITE score requirements vary among surgery programs. Mine placed residents on "probation" if they scored below the 30th percentile and expected the residents to show significant improvement the following year.

The exam is somewhat repetitive each year, and that's where many of these ABSITE guides get their info. There are more than a few questions that repeat every year. I usually tried to write down as many questions as possible right after the test, so that I would have a bank of topics that I used for the next several years. By the seventh time I took the ABSITE, studying for the test was quite painless. Once you get used to the ABSITE, the most important thing is to get some good sleep the night before the test.
 
Hi there,
The questions on ABSITE are repetitive. "Absite Review" by Steven Fiser touches on the repeats well. It's a quick read and will get you into the loop.
njbmd :)
 
does anyone have the part 2 of absite killer? I like the killer but i heard there is a part two. Is anyone reading the sesap for absite?or is that too much.
 
Kimberli Cox said:
Hope everyone did well (or at least finished).

Same old gastrointestinal physiology/pathology questions, Endocrine stuff and dang it if they don't ask that Respiratory Quotient every year!!! At least its a freebie. :D
Click to expand...

all i gotta say is "procidentia"... lol.
 
Celiac Plexus said:
all i gotta say is "procidentia"... lol.
Click to expand...

Yeah...one of our 2nd year's (in a combined program with a Surgical sub-specialty) saw me afterwards and asked me what "procidentia" was. She should count her lucky stars she hasn't (and probably never will) seen it. :laugh:
 
And what was with where is the SA node ? And then the anesthesia like Questions made me want to rather pass ureteric stones. I mean how many malignant hyperthermias have we seen. I havent seen even one.
Did you guys finish before the given time?
And HOw did you guys revert the protamine induces Hypotension? Calcium was the closest.
 
Denial said:
And what was with where is the SA node ? And then the anesthesia like Questions made me want to rather pass ureteric stones. I mean how many malignant hyperthermias have we seen. I havent seen even one.
Did you guys finish before the given time?
And HOw did you guys revert the protamine induces Hypotension? Calcium was the closest.
Click to expand...


I didn't have the question about the treatment of protamine induced hypotension (mine was what was the most common SE of protamine), but Ca should work (although I don't know what your other choices were).

Continue to expect those "anesthesia like" questions - you will have them every year.

I finished early, but generally I know if I don't know and can't figure out the answer and simply move on to the next question.
 
Kimberli Cox said:
I didn't have the question about the treatment of protamine induced hypotension (mine was what was the most common SE of protamine), but Ca should work (although I don't know what your other choices were).

Continue to expect those "anesthesia like" questions - you will have them every year.

I finished early, but generally I know if I don't know and can't figure out the answer and simply move on to the next question.
Click to expand...
I did finsh like 45 mins before but i went back and correted a few things!
 
I'm wondering how much ABSITE scores factor in for surgical fellowship applications?

How would you rank ABSITE scores among:
-program where you did your GS residency
-PD's letter
-letters of recommendation from surgical faculty at your program
-research/publications
 
Hi!

I was offered a pre-lim position in surgery, and I have a few questions, please. If I want to do a year of pre-lim in surgery and want to go for categorical year PGY-1 or 2, don't I also want to have my ABSITE scores in my application to improve my chances? When are the results of the ABSITE exam usually released? I hope it's not after the match, or is it??

I hope to hear some answers, and thank you!
 
It sounds like you are a 4th yr med student who would like to possibly enter the match next year in hopes of obtaining a categorical position. You want your ABSITE scores so that you can be a more attractive candidate. Is this correct?

Well, the ABSITE is administered the last Saturday of January. Results come back around March 15. Deadlines for ERAS applications are around December 15 with final interview dates in early February. So if you use ERAS you cannot put your intern year ABSITE scores on it. But that's OK.

After your scores return, check out APDS.org, click on position open, and then send your CV with ABSITE scores to programs with open positions.

http://apds.org/residency_positions_open.htm
 
Best review for ABSITE is SESAP - Surgical Education and Self Assessment Program, published by the American College of Surgeons. Consice, up to the minute, and easy to get through, in question/answer format.

I always hit top quartile on ABSITEs and also got top 5th percent on actual board examination after graduation, basically using SESAP as my primary study source. Rush review is also excellent, but overdue for an update.

Good luck.
 
SESAP = great review. Used it as primary resource for both written and oral boards, passed both on first shot easily. Not quite as relevant for the ABSITE, as there tends to be more basic science than is covered in the actual board exams.

The book I used the most for the ABSITE, which worked very well for me, was the purple review book from University of Pennsylvania (I think it is called "Surgical Basic Science" or something like that). Excellent reviews, especially for some of the more esoteric topics (ortho, gyne, etc) that show up on the ABSITE (my chief year ABSITE had like 15 gyne questions, and lo and behold, gyne also showed up on my oral boards!).

best of luck
 
Is there any way to get SESAP other than ordering it from the ACS and spending $250? What other good question books are out there? Anyone ever used General Surgery ABSITE and Board Review by Matt Blecha and Andrew Brown?

I already have The ABSITE review, but would like to get a good question book (because that's how I make sure that I really know stuff).
 
Hey Guys,
Just in case you didn't get the little letter sent out by the ABSITE folks:

PGY 1 & PGY2 Exam version is skewed more toward basic science.

PGY 3, PGY4 and PGY5 Exam version is skewed more toward clinical science.

No more do we all take the same exam so tailor your studying accordingly.

njbmd :)
 
How much time per week do you think you average studying/reading/preparing for ABSITE?
 
MMH Doc said:
It sounds like you are a 4th yr med student who would like to possibly enter the match next year in hopes of obtaining a categorical position. You want your ABSITE scores so that you can be a more attractive candidate. Is this correct?

Well, the ABSITE is administered the last Saturday of January. Results come back around March 15. Deadlines for ERAS applications are around December 15 with final interview dates in early February. So if you use ERAS you cannot put your intern year ABSITE scores on it. But that's OK.

After your scores return, check out APDS.org, click on position open, and then send your CV with ABSITE scores to programs with open positions.

http://apds.org/residency_positions_open.htm
Click to expand...
Do Absite results take 6 weeks to come in or is it sooner?
For some reason, I thought it was end of February?
 
This year I saw a major improvement in my score despite being in the lab and having bascially no clinical teaching or experience for a year and a half. So I'm giving credit to my books which I would like to recommend. These books can be studied in short periods of time and are just more manageable that a hard bound text given our schedules.

The Absite Review, by Stephen Fiser. This guy must have published his study notes when he was at UVA, but they are very comprehensive. It's in outline format, so you may not understand the answers, but they're pretty much all there. This book might serve as a backbone for your studying. If you could memorize it, you'd really be well-off.

The Surgical Review, Alturi et al. This book is SO easy to read, its almost like a med student surgery text. But the details are there if you look closely. I think this complements Fiser's book nicely and really improves your retention of the facts through understanding and perspective.

SESAP 12:
With the new senior level absite ,I think these questions intended for recertifying surgeons is becoming more relevant. yeah it's expensive but you can split the cost with your friends and pass it around. You can install it on your PC or MaC laptop and bust out a few questions on a call night- even a few minutes is well spent.

Michigan questions:
I think these help you psychologically more than by increasing your fund of knowledge. Maybe a couple of questions I saw this year were close to the michican questions, but I don't know if it improved my score a whole lot.
 
You can find the absite Killer in PDA form on absitekiller.com.

As for the michigan review. I thought it was excellent. But that was before the test was changed....

Hope this helps

tkidner said:
Does anyone know where I can purchase a copy of the ABSITE Killer?
Click to expand...
 
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