Absite 2008

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Guys what percentile is considered to be ok, good, very good? What numbers do people look at when you apply to more less competitive fellowship?
Thanks.
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CTS said:
Guys what percentile is considered to be ok, good, very good? What numbers do people look at when you apply to more less competitive fellowship?
Thanks.
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Well, 50th percentile is considered average.......

Anything less than 30th percentile is considered a red flag that you could bomb the big test.......

I would say that 80th or better is very good....

...I like to follow up my smart-@ss remarks with actual input.....
 
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CTS said:
Guys what percentile is considered to be ok, good, very good? What numbers do people look at when you apply to more less competitive fellowship?
Thanks.
Click to expand...


Is this the purpose of the ABSITE? I was curious what it was actually used for but declined to ask my chief resident since he was in the middle of being shamed for finishing with a single digit percentage score. (Or, as far as I could tell, that was the number I could garner from eavesdropping while we were prepping and draping the patient ;))
 
It was a steep curve. My percentile went from 78th last year to 55th this year.

My personal goal is to never score below 70% raw score, but to obviously score as good as I possibly can.

I'll still take it, knowing that it was going to be scored against 2-3rd years I knew it would drop. My percent correct went down to 75 (about 3 or 4 points lower than last year) as well though so it could have been worse.

In the end I only missed one of the swan questions LOL. I knew I had winged it pretty good on those, but just didn't remember the exact ranges of normals for the indices like I did the raw numbers and had to quasi convert them.

It was a tough test I thought.

And yes Intern year is the easiest year to rock the test.

No complaints from me though, if I wanted to score higher I should have studied more.

I'm just glad to get the last basic science flooded test over and be able to start with the clinical one (though I do realize that it is likely much more difficult).
 
looking back over the ones you got wrong, do you ever wonder how you got certain q wrong? Im like how did i misss that?????

wish i could discuss some here but i know wingedscapula might get mad at me :(

there were some q that no one at my progrma could figure out the right answer, and it truns out i missed one of those and im dying to kknow what the answer was!!!

only missed one swan question

Im wondering, what overall score for a program would you consider a decent score, like the residents are smart there??
 
opr8n said:
wish i could discuss some here but i know wingedscapula might get mad at me :(
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You can discuss ABSITE questions all you want and I won't get mad.

What WILL happen is that ABS will subpeona SDN for your real name, email address and IP and will take legal action against you.

My earlier warnings to not discuss questions have nothing to do with ME or SDN (except that SDN has to pay legal counsel to represent us) but rather to protect users who do not realize that this is a REALITY.
 
Winged Scapula said:
You can discuss ABSITE questions all you want and I won't get mad.

What WILL happen is that ABS will subpeona SDN for your real name, email address and IP and will take legal action against you.

My earlier warnings to not discuss questions have nothing to do with ME or SDN (except that SDN has to pay legal counsel to represent us) but rather to protect users who do not realize that this is a REALITY.
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i realize this, i was just trying to be cute, but was taken way more seriously than i expected, yikes :eek:
 
what about questions which had more than 1 correct answer on the junior absite for example on pleura and burn creams (I think I am not being specific enough and thus avoiding the risk of falling into subpoena territory)
 
SocialistMD said:
Your curve reflects your year. Either you were an intern last year and you are now being graded against other PGY-2s as well as lab residents (who have more time to study and also have one-three years more experience), or other people in the country at your level improved more than you did this year.

That said, I jumped quite a bit percentage wise this year while only answering correctly a very few number of questions more than last year. I am in the lab this year, so I am being graded against true PGY-2s as well, but I still can't quite put my finger on why the curve is so different this year.
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Also in the lab. Found it wierd that my % correct went down 2% and my % rank went up 2%.
 
i am a pgy3. after asking around and prying for scores, I found out that the raw score I got intern year (two years ago) would have been terrible percentile wise this year. obviously there are problems comparing two different tests. Was this years junior exam easier? possibly. I have no idea since i didn't take it. Another possibility is the increasing competitiveness of getting into a general surgery residency. At my program, the applicants are more and more decorated with higher USMLE scores/class ranks.

nonetheless, at my program, a large one (8 categoricals), the ones who did the best were the prelims who have had many years of post grad/clinical experience. To me, its like kids in little league playing against foreigners who are really 17 and shaving already.

At my program, absite scores are weighed heavily. I think my program directors concern is to secure a high QE/CE pass rate. I understand that there is a need to standardize the product of a surgical residency. However, I dont think that those people that do well on the absite are necessarily the best residents.

One day when i become a program director, I would use absite scores as almost a pass/fail type system. If you scored below 30 percentile, that would be a flag. I would not favor a resident just because he/she scored 99 percentile. I've seen too many kids at my program duck clinical work to study.

My last unrelated point is that the Fizer Absite Review book is absolute money to study for the test. SESAP questions are good too but it felt mostly like a radiology board exam. Cameron proved to be very helpful as well if you read on a consistent basis.
 
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pamchenko said:
One day when i become a program director, I would use absite scores as almost a pass/fail type system. If you scored below 30 percentile, that would be a flag.
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That is how it is at our program. We have a "breakfast club" for residents scoring under a certain percentage (I think it is 30); they are pulled off service and have lectures once a week all summer as a review and to make sure they are keeping up with their reading.
 
pamchenko said:
i am a pgy3. after asking around and prying for scores, I found out that the raw score I got intern year (two years ago) would have been terrible percentile wise this year. obviously there are problems comparing two different tests. Was this years junior exam easier? possibly. I have no idea since i didn't take it. Another possibility is the increasing competitiveness of getting into a general surgery residency. At my program, the applicants are more and more decorated with higher USMLE scores/class ranks.

nonetheless, at my program, a large one (8 categoricals), the ones who did the best were the prelims who have had many years of post grad/clinical experience. To me, its like kids in little league playing against foreigners who are really 17 and shaving already.

At my program, absite scores are weighed heavily. I think my program directors concern is to secure a high QE/CE pass rate. I understand that there is a need to standardize the product of a surgical residency. However, I dont think that those people that do well on the absite are necessarily the best residents.

One day when i become a program director, I would use absite scores as almost a pass/fail type system. If you scored below 30 percentile, that would be a flag. I would not favor a resident just because he/she scored 99 percentile. I've seen too many kids at my program duck clinical work to study.

My last unrelated point is that the Fizer Absite Review book is absolute money to study for the test. SESAP questions are good too but it felt mostly like a radiology board exam. Cameron proved to be very helpful as well if you read on a consistent basis.
Click to expand...

Well aren't the absite scores important for fellowships? Especially the competitive ones? So it's really moot discussing whether your program director cares how you do or not. It's the fellowship programs that you are trying to impress with your scores. And I understand there are a lot of other factors that are taken into consideration in getting into fellowships. But having said that, a set of mediocre absite scores during your residency isn't exactly going to help.....right??
 
For the senior exam (stuck in PGY4 land), I got a great score and used Fiser (cover to cover) and all the SESAP questions on the CD, with occasional chapters from the Rush review in stuff that is either skimpy or not included. This seemed to be maximum benefit for minimum time. Will definitely use the same plan next year...
 
TXSurgResident said:
For the senior exam (stuck in PGY4 land), I got a great score and used Fiser (cover to cover) and all the SESAP questions on the CD, with occasional chapters from the Rush review in stuff that is either skimpy or not included. This seemed to be maximum benefit for minimum time. Will definitely use the same plan next year...
Click to expand...

I imagine that the curriculum is prettys solid where you are training since you guys have a 100% board pass rate with a large ## of residents taking the test every year (100% less impressive when it's 2/2 vs. 50/50).
 
Lost my login from a previous ID, so first post here....

I did significantly better this year on the ABSITE (PGY-5). The average percentile for the residents in my class was around the 75%ile. I think Fiser is key as well as a good question book(s). Read something everyday, even if it is 10 minutes of questions right before bed.

At my program, they made a push this past year to help prepare the residents for the test with weekly lectures, with mixed results. The cheif's didn't have an ABSITE review and we did the best of the 5 PGY levels. The averages for the other classes went down, despite conferences, but some remarkably high scores were posted by some individuals...with some low ones as well. I have always been a firm believer in educational lectures/protected time in a residency program to prepare residents for boards, but after seeing the results at our program this year, I'm not so sure that lectures are the best way.

I'd be all ears for people who would like to share how their program prepares/guides the residents for the ABSITE. If you don't get higher than 40%ile at my program, you could face academic probation, as is the case with many people here.
 
PGY 4:
SESAP 13; Fiser; Dean Review
got 99 % - WTF:laugh:
 
My program has a weekly conference that covers a different topic each time.

I don't think that there has ever been any data to link these type of conferences with any kind of scoring pattern. My own personal view is that they have little effect on residents' absite scores.

The one (and only) factor that I believe is important for good absite performance is independent study. Residents who study regularly on their own do well, and the ones who depend solely on the weekly conference do not.
 
Celiac Plexus said:
The one (and only) factor that I believe is important for good absite performance is independent study. Residents who study regularly on their own do well, and the ones who depend solely on the weekly conference do not.
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Totally Agree:thumbup: (although the year I bombed, I fell asleep for an hour during the exam post call... oops)

Most people this year 'round here who didn't do as well as they wanted to said to me felt like they didn't study enough.
 
my prep included:
APDS lectures (all of them), Fiser (10 times), Fiser questions (once), skimmed sabiston
my score went up 22%
with 12% more q correct (ie 30 questions)

next year i plan on adding sesap13 and some q review book


Does anyone have any suggestions on a really good Q review book????
(i dont think fiser is a good q review book personally)
 
my program has no specific absite review sadly
we have weekly conference though it is not directed at basic science or absite specifically
we are required to doa powerpoint every month on an aspect of an organ system and present it to a group of 6 residents
the 3/4/5 residents have to do selected reading in GS and do the associated questions
And there arent alot of teaching rounds due to the high volume of private surgeons community based who dont have time for teaching
 
I think Fiser is absolutely money. My program has a weekly absite review that I never attend b/c I'm just not an auditory lecture person. Instead, I would read Fiser during that time, actually for about 2 months before the ABSITE, I read Fiser about 1-1.5 hours a day and got thru it almost 2 times. I didn't attend lectures and ended up with a 67%. I could only imagine what the score would be if I had read fiser 4 or 5 times cover to cover.
 
In my experience of taking the test 5 times...

some program and fellowship directors indeed use the info in ways that the test may not have been intended for- promotions, etc..

if you get a bad score that will not help you get a competitive fellowship

fiser is a waste of money and isn't even fit for toilet paper.

they ask the same questions every year, sometimes even word for word.

if you study to be a surgeon and not for the sake of a test, you will do fine.
 
TXSurgResident said:
Totally Agree:thumbup: (although the year I bombed, I fell asleep for an hour during the exam post call... oops)
Click to expand...

Which makes me wonder...I have heard of programs in which no resident is on call the night before, attendings take call (or perhaps hired guns...as I cannot imagine the attendings staying in house).

How do other programs handle it (mine, of course, had residents take call...although one year I lucked out and my attending at the VA told me to transfer my pages to his pager)?
 
Was on call and drove 45 minutes from another hospital to the university that morning.
 
my program requires the residents to be on call the n ight before and one unlucky resident gets to cross cover the the oncall residentthe day of the exam for 5 hours

and yes, that was me last year, and then i was on call the next day as well

svcks, buts its surgery so im not complaining, bring it on!
 
At my program we take call as usual the night before (our PD insists that there is a study proving no difference in performance between those on call and those who aren't) and during the test fellows (on services with fellows) and attendings take their own call.
 
been a while since i've posted, but the ABSITE is a fun topic.

first off, where is the statistical package run each year (curve breakdown, etc)? i always enjoy seeing just how steep the curve is, makes you wonder why certain questions are included, etc.

secondly, not sure about any study saying those on call the night before the test doing no different than those who are well rested. yes, we're surgical residents and used to thinking on 2 minutes of sleep in 48 hours, but to think someone up all night doing trauma will score the same compared to the same resident sleeping 8 hours and eating a nice breakfast doesn't compute with me. our program let's all residents off call the night before, handing it to off-service interns and staff. i know i appreciate this since the night before is an opportunity to ready about 250 questions before bed

next, study materials. certainly depends on one's study style but since certain topics are always covered, i believe the following are mandatory:
absite killer - print/save for next year
fiser - i used the first edition but the 2nd looks nice, need to get a cheap copy
fiser question book

Other options of course include cameron or other textbook (must read all year long, not starting 2 months prior to the exam); michigan review (very hit or miss unless you have multiple years worth to look back on; sesap (i study best with questions and they prepare me for sitting 4hours answering multiple guess); any # of recent 'review' books, just find one that fits your style (i.e. paragraph, bullet point, etc)

how much time? as already said in this thread, studying to be a surgeon should be enough. if you read throughout the year you should do better than average. cramming is more difficult, but certainly can be done.

lastly, what is the point of the absite? much like the mcat, step 1/2/3, this exam is supposed to be used as a pass/fail measure. if you score >30% you are significantly more likely to pass the WRITTEN boards. you could still suck up the orals. does doing well on the absite translate into being a 'good' surgeon, hell no. we know this; faculty know this; PDs know this. however, every program needs some way to 'arbitrarily' compare residents/applicants for fellowship/etc and this is how we do it in surgery.

if you did well, congrats. if not, who gives a ****. to the ACS, where's the statistical package?!
 
fishmonger69 said:
been a while since i've posted, but the ABSITE is a fun topic.

if you did well, congrats. if not, who gives a ****. to the ACS, where's the statistical package?!
Click to expand...

Heh, this is true. I don't beleive scores were ever inquired in the process of the minimally invasive fellowship application, and I don't think they're included as a part of the surg onc application, either.

Granted who doesn't like to get a good score? Though as long as you don't scrape the bottom part of the bell curve, one would think you'll ultimately pass the writtens.

Our program has still not received our scores- is this true for anyone else out there? I doubt there is any reason behind it but find it weird.
 
My program is a small one that typically has one intern on call along with one night float resident covering everything in the hospital, with a third or fourth year on call from home as backup in case something goes to the OR. On the night before the ABSITE, we have the trauma PA acting as the night float along with one of the rotating interns. The attending acts as backup, but he stays in house so the PA has someone to turn to in case something bad comes in. Luckily that time of the year tends to be slower so it works out.
 
ajlmd said:
Heh, this is true. I don't beleive scores were ever inquired in the process of the minimally invasive fellowship application, and I don't think they're included as a part of the surg onc application, either.
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Check the SSO application link
http://www.surgonc.org/uploadedFiles/Training_Programs/SSOFellowshipApplication1-23-08.pdf

They ask for ABSITE scores on page 3.
 
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