A question for current RCSI students...

[porkchop]

Hi everyone, I have one question -- since RCSI is a private institution, are students required to offer 'donations' or some sort of hidden payment not accounted for in the fees? I don't know about RCSI but I know of some private educational institutions that have such things going on...thanks!

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[medgirl20]

I've never heard of it happening. I'm Irish though and don't pay fees so I'm not sure about fee payers

 

[Jammer]

Hi everyone, I have one question -- since RCSI is a private institution, are students required to offer 'donations' or some sort of hidden payment not accounted for in the fees? I don't know about RCSI but I know of some private educational institutions that have such things going on...thanks!

Hidden payments???

There's no need for hidden payments with tuition at 35,000 Euros per year and rising!

 

[porkchop]

Jammer> exactly!! But with private schools, you can't be too sure.

 

[aussiedoc]

theres nothing hidden about 35,000euros a year. However fees do go up about 6percent a year? or there is a clause to allow for this at least.

 

[Southpawz]

Last time I checked, the clause allowed for tuition hikes of up to 10% per year. Although I think it has been around 5-6% the last couple of years.

 

[garybass]

No, porkchop, there is no bribe involved. The fees (astronomical as they are), are "all-inclusive".

Good luck with your applications

 

[porkchop]

Thanks everyone! Well, my friend at UCD kept blasting RCSI saying that "everyone" knows that its reputation is worse than UCC (UCC isn't bad, anyway!!!), that it's full of rich Arab kids that couldn't enter anywhere else and that people do pay bribes to pass! Did piss me off a bit and sounded a bit incredulous but I decided to ask around anyway. It can't be that bad! Could some people just stop blasting other schools, lol?? Btw, thanks for answering my questions!

 

[alincoln]

Thanks everyone! Well, my friend at UCD kept blasting RCSI saying that "everyone" knows that its reputation is worse than UCC (UCC isn't bad, anyway!!!), that it's full of rich Arab kids that couldn't enter anywhere else and that people do pay bribes to pass! Did piss me off a bit and sounded a bit incredulous but I decided to ask around anyway. It can't be that bad! Could some people just stop blasting other schools, lol?? Btw, thanks for answering my questions!

Porkchop, I'm an RCSI student. Your friend was dead on. Irish are required to get 580/600 on their leaving cert (like SATs) to get in, Arabs are required to get only 375.

The girls, I've found, are universally stellar. Super stars under the hejab. The men, however, are deplorable -- many don't even show up to class -- and why should they, when RCSI instructs examiners not to fail them?

And as far as the bribes go, Dublin hospitals are FULL of foreign docs. Foreign docs are naturally sympathetic to their own. There have been incidents of foreign docs "in the know" leaking copies of MCQ exams or essay-exam topics to Arab students before major exams.

For many students, exams really are just a formality -- they'll all get passed in the end, anyway. Yes, I'm biased. Yes, I'm blasting. Yes, I'm telling the truth.

 

[big-gun]

The girls, I've found, are universally stellar. Super stars under the hejab. The men, however, are deplorable -- many don't even show up to class -- and why should they, when RCSI instructs examiners not to fail them?

And as far as the bribes go, Dublin hospitals are FULL of foreign docs. Foreign docs are naturally sympathetic to their own. There have been incidents of foreign docs "in the know" leaking copies of MCQ exams or essay-exam topics to Arab students before major exams.

Strong work alincoln, strong work. I'm not sure how long you've been around the RCSI, but you are obviously aware of the shady way in which the joint is run. I'm an RCSI grad from last year. You were spot on, but allow me to elaborate.

The arab students pay higher tuition fees than the rest of the foreign students. It's hard to imagine tuition fees could be higher, but it's true. The rationale on the part of the RCSI is that the arabs are less qualified (ie. lower leaving cert scores). So, does this mean the guy in bed 3 up in my ICU on the respirator with brains coming out his nose could go to RCSI provided his family comes up with the money? Imagine lectures getting interrupted every 10 minutes as he codes! ****ing hilarious!!! Actually, what would be more hilarious would be watching one of the so-called "doctors" who teaches at the RCSI attempt to recussitate him! LOL! Those guys are all about the graft. With so much time devoted to sucking money out of students, that dude would have a better chance of surviving if the postman were providing medical care.

It is true, different students at the RCSI pay different amounts of tuition! Can you believe it?!? Holy ****, the RCSI doesn't even attempt to maintain even a facade of equity.

By the way. When it comes to passing exams, something shady is going on. For instance, the ex-student council president who graduated last year was about as successful at passing his exams as the Washington Generals were at defeating the Globe Trotters. In addition to failing every RCSI exam and having to squeak by on the repeats, he made about 3 unsuccessful runs at the USMLE step 1. Somehow he cleared the bar in final med, as did some other sketchy students. The Catholic church is investigating, but we are certain it was a miracle. Unless, the RCSI chose to lower its "outstanding" academic standards... in which case satan was involved.

RC$I

RC$I

RC$I

 

[maken]

hi every one...........I think RCSI is not the best place to do medicine......Irish students very easily eventhough they are not the best student...irish leaving cert is not recognised in UK and USA..irish students do it in two years ....!!
international and arabic studenys do it in only one year eventhough they never did exams in english before ..most of them got above 500 last year.

the highest academic record in the history of RCSI is for Dr Omnyat Alhajri from UAE .........still the highest till now

irish students get the exam papers and question in the swan(bar)!!!!!!!

dublin is boring city, and its not the best place for medicine

 

[maken]

irish hospitals are dirty and i thinks its waste of time to do the intern year in dublin......strange live their ..i thinks its a big zoo or big psychiatric unit...

 

[maken]

Irish health service is bottom of Europe

Monday, 26 June 2006 22:29
A new survey has placed Ireland 25th out of 26 European countries examined for the quality of their health services.
The annual study was carried out by the European think-tank Health Consumer Powerhouse, and surveyed the 25 EU member states and Switzerland.
The report found that France has the most consumer-friendly healthcare system around Europe, followed closely by the Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Luxembourg.
Advertisement

In five categories, covering 28 performance indicators, Ireland scores 359 points out of a potential 750.
The survey points out that Irish waiting times are long, medical outcomes are bleak, that there is a high level of infant deaths, and a high number MRSA infections in Irish hospitals.
Ireland also fares badly in terms of patients' rights. The survey also pointed out that Ireland lacks a Patients' Ombudsman, the right to a second opinion, or an all-day telephone or web-based healthcare information service.
A spokesperson for the Department of Health said the survey does not reflect the important realities of the Irish health service.
He said it takes no account of the fact that there have been dramatic improvements in waiting times in the past four years.
He also said the report does not acknowledge that Irish patients have access to GP services on a same-day basis or that the Irish Ombudsman service covers the health service.

 

[zeyad]

Lets all take a big step back why don't we. You're all potentional doctors, surely stereotyping is not a character trait of yours? "Arabs this", "Arabs that", woah.. you're making us sound like bloody idiots still trodding on our camels. Yes, arab srudents do have lower requirements, and when I asked about this in the interview, they told me it was 'cause many arabs and africans alike aren't that fluent in english which could give them a disadvantage in their studies, and thus they don't want to inhibit potentional talent due to poor linguisitc abilities. Yes, the idea of being paid 38,000 euros probably does help lower the requirement, but its not the only reason. At the same time, many Arabs in RCSI that I know of would have met the requirement for Irish students, as they're doing the IB and scoring in the region of 38-42. I'm one of those arabs. So please, don't sit there stereotyping every one of us. Its given in any race/culture that idiots will exist. But some of us work hard to get into places like RCSI and its derogotary to be classified as a "rich arab paying his way through med school".

 

[leorl]

Well-said, zeyad. As with everything else, please remember not to over-generalize. It seems in present and past, there are more disgruntled RCSI students than from other schools, probably because of the money being paid. There's two sides to every coin, though, and none of us here on this board are administrators with full knowledge of operations so it's best not to air dirty laundry too freely. You're entitled to your opinions but let's not turn these threads into rant threads. Keep them as discussion threads.

 

[bulgethetwine]

Irish health service is bottom of Europe

Monday, 26 June 2006 22:29
A new survey has placed Ireland 25th out of 26 European countries examined for the quality of their health services.
The annual study was carried out by the European think-tank Health Consumer Powerhouse, and surveyed the 25 EU member states and Switzerland.
The report found that France has the most consumer-friendly healthcare system around Europe, followed closely by the Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Luxembourg.
Advertisement

In five categories, covering 28 performance indicators, Ireland scores 359 points out of a potential 750.
The survey points out that Irish waiting times are long, medical outcomes are bleak, that there is a high level of infant deaths, and a high number MRSA infections in Irish hospitals.
Ireland also fares badly in terms of patients' rights. The survey also pointed out that Ireland lacks a Patients' Ombudsman, the right to a second opinion, or an all-day telephone or web-based healthcare information service.
A spokesperson for the Department of Health said the survey does not reflect the important realities of the Irish health service.
He said it takes no account of the fact that there have been dramatic improvements in waiting times in the past four years.
He also said the report does not acknowledge that Irish patients have access to GP services on a same-day basis or that the Irish Ombudsman service covers the health service.

This guy is obviously a troll. Don't feed him.

 

[maken]

hi every body.........racsim is a big issue in RCSI .....eventhough they are living from the international fees.....thats why irish health system are the worst in europe or maybe in the world.....

 

[Unch]

Whutz mohr danjerus Maken, Eyerish hospihtuls or the monsturs under yer troll bridje? Yu sound so nowlidguhble. Whut medikul akademy did yu go to?

 

[leorl]

okay, now now...no need to resort to ridiculing. Foreign vs. Irish is a problem that I hope has reached its height now, and with the new plans for medical education starting supposedly from this year onwards, the system should be revamped. This is a particularly bad year and everyone needs to realize that you go the furthest with cooperation among everyone in the class.

Do not talk about things you have no other experience with. To say that Irish hospitals are the worst in the world, you need to have good experience with other health care systems, which I doubt anybody who is a medical student actually has. Even more, the way the Irish hospitals operate is not a reflection on the Irish schools themselves. Obviously, the education still happens to a decent and sufficient degree. So unless you have a positive contribution to make regarding the Irish health care system and have a PhD in hospital administration, I'd keep the trap shut.

 

[millikin]

It seems that there a lot of bitter individuals who are posting on this thread...

Everyone knows the fees before entering the college, but they still choose to attend. That's their problem. Those who dont need to vent and are happy with their education probably wont post here so there is a strong bias. As to a past student president failing exams repeatedly I believe that is untrue and uncalled for and I think that leorl should prevent the posting of personal attacks on individuals.

Most people have come to the concensus that the education in all the Irish Med schools are equivalent. RCSI is a changing program at the moment (hopefully for the better) and has recruited well trained faculty who place a serious emphasis on academics / teaching.

RCSI has and continues to produce successful graduates. Some people are bitter about their experience and entitled to their opinions but take each of these with a salt shaker. But for every 1 of them, there are 20 of us who are happy. I have the feeling that those individuals above would be unhappy whether they are in Hopkins or Antarctica.


Dublin is a great place, its a mini metropolitan city and is growing continuously. The main point of this post is make the most of what you have whether that be the city you are in or the school you attend.

-milo

 

[pattycanuck]

okay, now now...no need to resort to ridiculing. Foreign vs. Irish is a problem that I hope has reached its height now, and with the new plans for medical education starting supposedly from this year onwards, the system should be revamped. This is a particularly bad year and everyone needs to realize that you go the furthest with cooperation among everyone in the class.

Do not talk about things you have no other experience with. To say that Irish hospitals are the worst in the world, you need to have good experience with other health care systems, which I doubt anybody who is a medical student actually has. Even more, the way the Irish hospitals operate is not a reflection on the Irish schools themselves. Obviously, the education still happens to a decent and sufficient degree. So unless you have a positive contribution to make regarding the Irish health care system and have a PhD in hospital administration, I'd keep the trap shut.

Agreed

As for someone who has now worked in Ireland, Canada and Australia for considerable amounts of time - Ireland definitely has some great qualities about its medical setup in general and also has its downfalls (LIKE EVERY OTHER SYSTEM IN THE WORLD and including Canada and Australia).

Remember, there are sooo many facets of medicine that you can address such as work hours, budget, resources, facilities, training, etc (ie varied). So if one is to criticize, please be more specific and base it on slef experience and bonafide research.

 

[leorl]

Thanks for your post, millikin. And for our readers, do keep in mind that on these forums, for some reason the most negative rants tend to come out in an unbalanced proportion to the satisfied ones. As we have said time and time again, You are the cause of your own happiness no matter what reason brought you to Ireland. Also, to reiterate - please do not post unless you have first hand knowledge. Anecdotal stories obviously are allowed, but please make sure you know what you're talking about to avoid slander/libel.

 

[trymeover]

-

 

[incognitoguile]

Quote removed.

 

[JPR22]

Then how the hell do people find residency in US and Canada from Ireland? It seems better than caribs?

Those that are truly talented do electives, and impress their preceptors, get good letters and match. Those that arent either have their government buy them spots, or get the spot by some other shady means. (Nobody talks about the underhanded nonsense in graduate medical education, shhh..) Like North American Schools, I have seen both excellent and horrible doctors from Irish schools.

 

[leorl]

Every person in their final year of medical school is going to feel disgruntled. Keep remembering that the way to be successful regarding your education is for you to be proactive.

Having been there and done that, I was pretty bitter and angry at some points. But when I felt someone was not a good educator, I educated myself and supplemented with asking questions from others. And I remembered that when I was in undergrad in the US, I definitely had FAR from superior "teachers."

Now that I'm back in the US practicing, I have run into some FMGs who're not so good, and FMG's who are absolutely brilliant. And to be perfectly honest, I have run into a surprising number of American grads who I feel could have done with one or two more years of education... So this question of whether your education will be compromised by being an FMG or training in an Irish school is completely moot. It depends on your own personality, your own perseverence and your own intelligence.

And I also have to say, there are some times when I miss practicing in the Irish hospitals, and feel that their efficiency is actually better (!) than ours. That's something I never thought I'd say!

 

[jabberwocky]

The racist posts at the beginning of this thread are not cool and also detrimental to the name of RCSI. I am an American in the 4-year program, and I find the education and professors to be stellar. I defy all those stereotypes: I am caucasian and relatively poor! The school has an international student body, which makes a training ground for doctors who will practice in countries all over the world.

Moreover, Dublin is a really fun city in which to live, and many RCSI students land excellent residencies in North America because their USMLE scores are high...I know several people who have scored 99 and RCSI prepared them well. There are super RCSI grads at great institutions all over the US and Canada.

In terms of the Irish health system, yes it is a broken system but so is the system in the US. Moreover, I would trust the expertise and wit of an Irish doctor any day over an American doc.

 

[doctor4urdoctor]

Okay, so given I should be studying right now... procrastination rears it's ugly head. RCSI is a phenomenal school. It isn't a university and Dublin is not the most fun, BUT the academic merit of our school surpasses any school in Ireland. It is actually the top rated medical program in Ireland (as of most recently... I have no idea about in 2006 when this original thread was posted). Things seem to have change drastically since then because no, you can't get by with money. Not in the slightest regard. The examinations are tough and the students work hard. True. Some arabs don't go to class (among many others) and pull off passing or amazing grades on the exam... but to put it frankly, they are just really smart and able to do so. I'm sure some of the americans or canadians can too. I know for sure, I can't last minute cram and pull it off like that. It's a great school, but it does take a lot of your money. I would never have gone to UCD or TCD instead of RCSI because it's name is much greater and a way better rep. ALL of the Irish population is aware of RCSI as being the most well known and many doctors I know in Canada have graduated from the school. It's also got a great match rate for residency. I hope potential students ignore the outdated and racially discriminatory comments above. Please learn the facts. But, just for the record, UCD and TCD are always great schools with great medical programs.

Good Luck!

 

[doctor4urdoctor]

RCSI is the most difficult school for Irish students to get into and only the top scoring Irish students are allowed in- it's like that for a reason!

 

[Handsome88]

RCSI is the most difficult school for Irish students to get into and only the top scoring Irish students are allowed in- it's like that for a reason!

Actually TCD is the hardest to get into. Trinity is thought of as the harvard of Ireland (ask anybody in Ireland). I have friends at rCSI and they admit that TCD has a better system. RCSI spoon feeds their students and makes sure that their exams are easy enough for all students to pass. Not one but two RCSI graduates (now practicing doctors) are telling me that usually TCD interns are better than RCSI interns.

Also, I'm Canadian but also Arab and so I know what the people above are refering to about RCSI and Arabs. It is all true, that is why there have been talks that they will be sending away all the Arabs to the bahrain campus of RCSI. The reason is not because they are in any way less capable (in fact a lot are the smartest students and received several gold medals). They will still be given the exact same degree and certificate as that of RCSI-dublin.

 

[HQvhs]

Actually TCD is the hardest to get into. Trinity is thought of as the harvard of Ireland (ask anybody in Ireland). I have friends at rCSI and they admit that TCD has a better system. RCSI spoon feeds their students and makes sure that their exams are easy enough for all students to pass. Not one but two RCSI graduates (now practicing doctors) are telling me that usually TCD interns are better than RCSI interns.

Also, I'm Canadian but also Arab and so I know what the people above are refering to about RCSI and Arabs. It is all true, that is why there have been talks that they will be sending away all the Arabs to the bahrain campus of RCSI. The reason is not because they are in any way less capable (in fact a lot are the smartest students and received several gold medals). They will still be given the exact same degree and certificate as that of RCSI-dublin.

I think the previous poster was referring to the GEP programme in RCSI, which is the most competitive programme to get into in Ireland.
In fact, TCD's medical school is not that highly regarded (although there have been some recent efforts to improve it). The school was not granted a GEP programme, it does not use systems-based teaching, and it is slightly disorganised (moreso than most Irish colleges!). I have a few friends in TCD medicine and their course does not seem nearly as well-run or thought-out as the RCSI or UCD ones.

As for RCSI exams being made easy to pass - around 35% of students fail at least one exam in first year, with slightly lower rates all the way through. In addition, unlike TCD, RCSI does not offer a 'viva' (oral exam in your failed subject, as well as a repeat written exam) - some may see this as a disadvantage, as it makes your progress more difficult. I was actually talking to some TCD-qualified doctors who said that RCSI interns were better than TCD interns! (In fact, I believe RCSI students have the highest pass-rates in the MRCSI exams). So my anecdotal evidence beats your anecdotal evidence!
As the above point illustrates, we can trade anecdotes all day - but, in the end, the most important determining factor in success is you, irrespective of where you.

 

[Handsome88]

I think the previous poster was referring to the GEP programme in RCSI, which is the most competitive programme to get into in Ireland.
In fact, TCD's medical school is not that highly regarded (although there have been some recent efforts to improve it). The school was not granted a GEP programme, it does not use systems-based teaching, and it is slightly disorganised (moreso than most Irish colleges!). I have a few friends in TCD medicine and their course does not seem nearly as well-run or thought-out as the RCSI or UCD ones.

As for RCSI exams being made easy to pass - around 35% of students fail at least one exam in first year, with slightly lower rates all the way through. In addition, unlike TCD, RCSI does not offer a 'viva' (oral exam in your failed subject, as well as a repeat written exam) - some may see this as a disadvantage, as it makes your progress more difficult. I was actually talking to some TCD-qualified doctors who said that RCSI interns were better than TCD interns! (In fact, I believe RCSI students have the highest pass-rates in the MRCSI exams). So my anecdotal evidence beats your anecdotal evidence!
As the above point illustrates, we can trade anecdotes all day - but, in the end, the most important determining factor in success is you, irrespective of where you.

It's hard to compare which is harder to get into (I was just looking at stats for Irish students) because TCD does not have a GEP. But TCD international students have the same if not higher GPA averages as RCSI's.

Why is a systems-based teaching inferior to subject-based teaching? It's a matter of student's preference, one's not better than the other (many top universities in US/Canada use subject based too). I agree that TCD is annoyingly disorganized in many things, but they are relatively minor things (i.e. having a hard time finding the lecture notes online) and will not really affect the student's ability as a future doctor.

Do you mind explaining to me how TCD's course is not well thought-out like RCSI's? What are the flaws? I really want to know.

Thanks.

 

[Arb]

I've discussed curriculum with both RCSI and TCD students. I have actually been on rotation with RCSI students. Curriculum wise, I think UCD is better especially if you are North American. However, if you want to do residency in the US, I would pick RCSI over all the other schools (Canada doesn't matter where you go). Overall, choose RCSI for their more supportive administration and alumni network in the US.