A few questions for the pros

[graezym]

Currently looking at career options...

1. A boring question, but what is the average salary for a vet?

2. Do they work alone, with just the animal, or are there always assistants?

3. Are they considered as highly as doctors?

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[sumstorm]

unfortunatly, the answer to all of those is 'it depends.'

1) A simple google search will give you an average salary, but that is based on self reported figures and doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense when residencies, part timers, practice ownership etc are considered. AVMA has a list with average salaries for fields/specialities but still includes the previously mentioned aspects. Also, as far as I know, there is very little reporting for vets in industry (there also isn't a clear definition if what it means to be in industry) but those I have encountered do make more.

2) depends on the vet, the situation, etc. Some vets don't even work with animals at all.

3) depends on who you ask. it is a highly regarded profession according to surveys but in private practice I haven't always felt that way, and when people say 'that's an AA, right?' it doesn't feel that way. however, I am not sure why this would matter at all...and as I like to joking remind people 'real doctors treat more than one species!' many of my med school friends are grateful they don't have to learn multiple species in anatomy and physiology, or consider various numbers of chambers in hearts, or grasp why a bypass system in a reptile could be good for cardiac distress but make anesthesia problematic. As a complete aside, I consider my amazing automechanic more highly than most doctors. a lot of respect and consideration come by how you treat people and how you operate your business, not what title or degree you have. I am sure we all encountered or heard of doctors that we wouldn't let look at a flea let alone ourselves.

 

[sofficat]

Sumstorm is right, "it depends"

As far as salary, it really depends on location and what you go in to, but thinkg $50,000-70,000 for starting vets (first year grads)

There is a very wide variety of fields in vet med. Some vets work purely in laboratories, some work for the government, research, food animal, small animal, exotics, wildlife, zoo, emergency clinics, and don't forget allll the specialty things- radiology, pathology, surgery, oncology... the list really goes on and on!!
For your typical private practice, there is usually an assistant that helps out. It is often dangerous to try to do things (even as simple as vaccinating) to an animal without assistance. Also, there are vet 'nurses' called licensed or certified veterinary technicians.

As far as how vets are considered... it's entirely dependent on who you talk to. I've met people that hold vets higher then their own medical doctors, but I've also met people who think we barely need and education to be a vet and think $30 for an exam fee is absurd.

If you are looking at career options, see if you can hang out in a vet clinic and see what they do. Then maybe get a volunteer job if you like, and maybe someday you'll get paid But that is the best way to feel out the world of vet med- just get right in there and find out for yourself!

 

[touchadream]

unfortunatly, the answer to all of those is 'it depends.'

1) A simple google search will give you an average salary, but that is based on self reported figures and doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense when residencies, part timers, practice ownership etc are considered. AVMA has a list with average salaries for fields/specialities but still includes the previously mentioned aspects. Also, as far as I know, there is very little reporting for vets in industry (there also isn't a clear definition if what it means to be in industry) but those I have encountered do make more.

2) depends on the vet, the situation, etc. Some vets don't even work with animals at all.

3) depends on who you ask. it is a highly regarded profession according to surveys but in private practice I haven't always felt that way, and when people say 'that's an AA, right?' it doesn't feel that way. however, I am not sure why this would matter at all...and as I like to joking remind people 'real doctors treat more than one species!' many of my med school friends are grateful they don't have to learn multiple species in anatomy and physiology, or consider various numbers of chambers in hearts, or grasp why a bypass system in a reptile could be good for cardiac distress but make anesthesia problematic. As a complete aside, I consider my amazing automechanic more highly than most doctors. a lot of respect and consideration come by how you treat people and how you operate your business, not what title or degree you have. I am sure we all encountered or heard of doctors that we wouldn't let look at a flea let alone ourselves.

As to "highly regarded", one set of criteria would be to ignore the "public" and ask educated people who will tell you its harder to get into vet school than med school, and the respect among the informed is quite high. I am not a vet, but a tax attorney helping professionals, and I can tell you from my perspective that I have met some VERY smart vets, who not only have to know multiple species, but be internists, surgeons, pyschiatrists, and good at business to be successful. Good luck. To do hard jobs like this one, you have to LOVE it.

 

[No Imagination]

3) depends on who you ask. it is a highly regarded profession according to surveys but in private practice I haven't always felt that way, and when people say 'that's an AA, right?' it doesn't feel that way. however, I am not sure why this would matter at all...and as I like to joking remind people 'real doctors treat more than one species!' many of my med school friends are grateful they don't have to learn multiple species in anatomy and physiology, or consider various numbers of chambers in hearts, or grasp why a bypass system in a reptile could be good for cardiac distress but make anesthesia problematic. As a complete aside, I consider my amazing automechanic more highly than most doctors. a lot of respect and consideration come by how you treat people and how you operate your business, not what title or degree you have. I am sure we all encountered or heard of doctors that we wouldn't let look at a flea let alone ourselves.

Best answer I've seen to this common question.

On another side note, and to pay some homage to the MD's, (my g/f is an MD student) - I do believe that they go into far more detail in just about everything (well, except parasitology, which is like a 2 week course) - so multiple species vs. greater detail, I say its a wash.

 

[Shanomong]

Best answer I've seen to this common question.

On another side note, and to pay some homage to the MD's, (my g/f is an MD student) - I do believe that they go into far more detail in just about everything (well, except parasitology, which is like a 2 week course) - so multiple species vs. greater detail, I say its a wash.

Agreed on both accounts... that is the best response to that question that I've heard as well. And my husband is an MD, and they did go into much greater detail. During our orientation there was a student presenting for the VBMA program, and she was outlining the salary trend in vet med... while I agree that we need to be paid more, one of her points was that we're "worth more" than regular MD's because we're required to know more species... and she proceeded to tell a story about a med student neighbor of hers who had an exam on just the arm while she had an exam on the entire dog and cat. It's not a fair comparison, and I wasn't a fan of that anecdote... especially since my husband is currently going through the many many years of residency and fellowship not matched by or required by vet med . I think we're all equally accomplished and deserving

 

[sumstorm]

Agreed on both accounts... that is the best response to that question that I've heard as well. And my husband is an MD, and they did go into much greater detail. During our orientation there was a student presenting for the VBMA program, and she was outlining the salary trend in vet med... while I agree that we need to be paid more, one of her points was that we're "worth more" than regular MD's because we're required to know more species... and she proceeded to tell a story about a med student neighbor of hers who had an exam on just the arm while she had an exam on the entire dog and cat. It's not a fair comparison, and I wasn't a fan of that anecdote... especially since my husband is currently going through the many many years of residency and fellowship not matched by or required by vet med . I think we're all equally accomplished and deserving

Really? There are vet schools where you have exams on the entire dog and cat? why on earth are we doing exams on each limb, each cavity, cats and dogs this semester, pigs, cows, horses, and small ruminants next semester? seriously, there are vet schools that don't do highly detailed anatomy? Did I really miss something? my med school friends did not go into any more detail than we are...in fact, the biggest challenge we have in comparing notes is the slight differences in terminology.

 

[Shanomong]

Really? There are vet schools where you have exams on the entire dog and cat? why on earth are we doing exams on each limb, each cavity, cats and dogs this semester, pigs, cows, horses, and small ruminants next semester? seriously, there are vet schools that don't do highly detailed anatomy? Did I really miss something? my med school friends did not go into any more detail than we are...in fact, the biggest challenge we have in comparing notes is the slight differences in terminology.

Yea I don't even know how to respond to that. You're right sumstorm, I'm so gosh darn lucky that I go to Penn where our motto is "the less detailed the anatomy, the better the vet!"

Obviously we go into just as much detail as anyone else (in the veterinary field, that is)... but we take an exam on every bone, muscle, nerve, vessel, and organ of a specie on one day instead of a series of smaller exams. Once we have our dog (&cat) exam (for cat we just need to know the differences) we move on to the horse, then the goat, then the chicken.

And whether or not you'd like to admit it, yes we learn in less detail than human MD's. Maybe you should compare notes a little more closely.

 

[dgm]

Really? There are vet schools where you have exams on the entire dog and cat? why on earth are we doing exams on each limb, each cavity, cats and dogs this semester, pigs, cows, horses, and small ruminants next semester? seriously, there are vet schools that don't do highly detailed anatomy? Did I really miss something? my med school friends did not go into any more detail than we are...in fact, the biggest challenge we have in comparing notes is the slight differences in terminology.

I'd be pretty psyched to have an exam for each limb & each cavity.

 

[vnair2]

Personally I dont care how much more detail MDs go into. I should be paid more because I am prettier.

 

[sumstorm]

and she proceeded to tell a story about a med student neighbor of hers who had an exam on just the arm while she had an exam on the entire dog and cat.

Actually, I read this incorrectly; I read it as 'while a med student takes an exam on a limb, a vet only has to know the generalities of an entire animal.' That was my mistake. I do NOT know how detailed every vet school and every med school is, but I DO know that my friends who are MD's did not go into ANY GREATER detail of human anatomy at the schools they attended than we are in domestic animal anatomy at the vet school I am attending. Perhaps it is more detailed at your husband's school, or more detailed here, I really don't know. What I do know is that I HAVE compared experiences and notes with MD's and MD students, and whether YOU want to accept it or not, the level of detail is pretty similar for their schools (not saying all med schools) and my school (not saying all vet schools.)

And, I specifically said that I 'jokingly' comment about multiple species, otherwise I doubt I would have friends in med school or who have recently finished their residencies. Also, some of us WILL have to complete residencies in vet med, even if it isn't a requirement for every field of vet med (which has as much to do with the lack of equivalent compensation for completion of residencies, making the completion for general practitioners financially burdensom.)

 

[Ben and Me]

We were discussing this in lab the other day--there simply isn't any way we go into as much detail about some organs/limbs as MDs do. Compare a dog's paw to a human hand. Human hands are much more "important" to a human functioning than a dog's paw is to a dog. Therefore, it is more important for an MD to have a much better grasp of the hand (and every small detail of the hand) than us.

If you're using Miller's Anatomy of the Dog as your dissection book, I guarantee you aren't going into as much paw detail as an MD does when they study the hand. We may go into an equal amount of detail about bones, muscles, etc--but other organs and limbs? Probably not so much. It simply wouldn't make sense for us to!

 

[Shanomong]

Also, some of us WILL have to complete residencies in vet med, even if it isn't a requirement for every field of vet med (which has as much to do with the lack of equivalent compensation for completion of residencies, making the completion for general practitioners financially burdensom.)

Sure, I plan to do an internship and residency too. But whether or not I do one is my choice, nobody's forcing me to take $20,000/year (I'm just doin that for fun!). And about 70% (give or take, maybe it was 60%?) of vet students opt not to pursue that level of training. That's not the case in human medicine, and that does matter. By the time my husband finishes that residency, following his more in-depth education, he will have been forced to learn much more than your straight out of school regular vet. Sorry, but it's a fact. And at that point in time, damn straight he's "worth more" than that vet.

And I think Ben and Me makes a great point

And I think I'd also love to take an exam on every limb, cavity, etc...

And I think VNair2 is unbelievably pretty.

And I think i better get back to studying biochem now before I flunk out of vet school

 

[Caninerepro]

It sounds like Penn is just REALLY WEAK when it comes to anatomy. Then again, I already have a MS in what amounts to A&P -- both primate and other species, so I am probably not the best judge. But, I also kind of went through med school anatomy with a friend, and while maybe as vets we do not focus on the paw specifically as much as a hand surgeon might, in general here at MN the level of detail is fairly comparable, plus we do study it in far more than one species. Wait until you get to LA until you pass judgement on paw anatomy requirements.

 

[Shanomong]

It sounds like Penn is just REALLY WEAK when it comes to anatomy.

Or maybe Penn students are just a little more realistic and a little less full of themselves

 

[Shanomong]

And just to drive the point home.... here's a list of the nerves that the MD students at UMinn are expected to know:

http://anatomy.med.umich.edu/anatomytables/nerves_upperlimb.html

I couldn't find a similar list for the vet school, but I did see that your required text is Miller... which is the same text Penn's "weak" anatomy program uses. We're expected to know every nerve in Miller... we're not even close to knowing everything on that above list

ETA: Damnit I just realized that's UMich not UMinn... but I stand by my point

 

[Pandacinny]

Well geez, guys, I mean obviously Penn is just a weak school for C-level students and that's why everyone here used it as their safety, right...? They *have* to call themselves "VMD's" not DVMS because the other schools just can't *bear* the association.

 

[vnair2]

I couldn't agree more. I also heard Penn students are really mean.

 

[twelvetigers]

I heard they tend to smell like cheese...

 

[Shanomong]

I've also heard they have really bad taste in tv/movies and like to watch crappy shows like Columbo and talk smack about perfectly good Jim Henson movies and movies with robots and explosions. And probably zombies.

 

[IHeartGoldens]

That's not all..

I heard from a friend that heard from a girl that talked to her boyfriend who knows a guy named Bill that's cousin's with a chick named Mary that knows some UPenn students smell like cheese because they are required to work making mozzerella in order to graduate and therefore have less knowledge of (paw) anatomy due to lack of study time.

damn shame.

 

[rileyroo]

quit comparing anatomy classes, you all made it into vet school...even if they are different ones.

 

[twelvetigers]

That's not all..

I heard from a friend that heard from a girl that talked to her boyfriend who knows a guy named Bill that's cousin's with a chick named Mary that knows some UPenn students smell like cheese because they are required to work making mozzerella in order to graduate and therefore have less knowledge of (paw) anatomy due to lack of study time.

damn shame.