A Dental Question

[Yah-E]

Do Vet. Schools have electives in zoo dentistry or is it always in the core curriculum? I know some dental school have electives in zoo dentistry (root canals for hippos, tigers, etc.), but I also have heard Vets extract dogs' teeth.

Very curious. Exactly how much vet dentistry do y'all learn in your curriculum.

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[Iain]

I think we spend more time learning to avoid teeth...................

 

[Yah-E]

I think we spend more time learning to avoid teeth...................

So for dogs and cats, y'all try to avoid animals' dentition?

Here's another puzzle....

When large zoo animals requires treatment and needs to be sedated, who does the sedation? Does Anesthesiologists come in or does the Veterinians do the sedation.

 

[birdvet2006]

We had exactly one day (more like half a day) of dentistry lectures. But the lecturer was excellent and covered the most important things - things you'll encounter day-to-day in practice (extractions, cleaning, periodontal disease etc.). It was in small animal clinical sciences, so no mention of zoo animals.

In fact, zoo medicine is quite specialised and my vet school does not teach it. We get a handful of exotics lectures - these include only commonly kept pet species like hamsters, rabbits, rats, guinea pigs, lizards, chelonians, and birds. There is no way any of us will be proficient exotics vets upon graduation - not without special training and education pursued on our own time (like attending conferences, doing specialised externships, and reading journals and textbooks). Zoo medicine is a field you really need to specialise in upon graduation (meaning: an internship and then a residency, then taking board exams). My school (and many schools) doesn't offer electives or much tracking. We're all on the same course and go to classes together as a whole group (except for practicals).

Equine dentistry is different. We are taught basic dentition in anatomy (same with other species), and over the years are taught about dental disease but are not expected to know it in depth. We should be able to rasp (float) teeth by the time we graduate, and know what needs to be done to remove cheek teeth.

In zoo medicine, if an animal needs to be sedated or anaesthetised, generally it's the vets who do this (with the aid of zoo keepers or techs). If there's access to a vet school, then sure - anaesthesiologists might do the sedation/anaesthesia. But this isn't always the case.

 

[Iain]

It Was A Joke!!!!!

 

[Yah-E]

We had exactly one day (more like half a day) of dentistry lectures. But the lecturer was excellent and covered the most important things - things you'll encounter day-to-day in practice (extractions, cleaning, periodontal disease etc.). It was in small animal clinical sciences, so no mention of zoo animals.

In fact, zoo medicine is quite specialised and my vet school does not teach it. We get a handful of exotics lectures - these include only commonly kept pet species like hamsters, rabbits, rats, guinea pigs, lizards, chelonians, and birds. There is no way any of us will be proficient exotics vets upon graduation - not without special training and education pursued on our own time (like attending conferences, doing specialised externships, and reading journals and textbooks). Zoo medicine is a field you really need to specialise in upon graduation (meaning: an internship and then a residency, then taking board exams). My school (and many schools) doesn't offer electives or much tracking. We're all on the same course and go to classes together as a whole group (except for practicals).

Equine dentistry is different. We are taught basic dentition in anatomy (same with other species), and over the years are taught about dental disease but are not expected to know it in depth. We should be able to rasp (float) teeth by the time we graduate, and know what needs to be done to remove cheek teeth.

In zoo medicine, if an animal needs to be sedated or anaesthetised, generally it's the vets who do this (with the aid of zoo keepers or techs). If there's access to a vet school, then sure - anaesthesiologists might do the sedation/anaesthesia. But this isn't always the case.

Very insightful, thanks Cindy! Oh Iain, I don't do jokes.

 

[Bill59]

Some schools have board-certified veterinary dentists (ACVD) that do the dental work, including zoo animals. In some schools dental rotations are required and in others they are electives.

In school without veterinary dentists, some other clinician often teaches the basic dentistry (prophies, extractions).

In most schools that do zoo work, the zoo veterinarians do the initial sedation/immobilization. For complex/prolonged anesthesias they often work with the anesthesiologists.

 

[Yah-E]

Some schools have board-certified veterinary dentists (ACVD) that do the dental work, including zoo animals. In some schools dental rotations are required and in others they are electives.

In school without veterinary dentists, some other clinician often teaches the basic dentistry (prophies, extractions).

In most schools that do zoo work, the zoo veterinarians do the initial sedation/immobilization. For complex/prolonged anesthesias they often work with the anesthesiologists.

It's a veterinary specialty, that's cool. Also I read up on all the other veterinary specialties on AVMA's website, how interesting. How's the salary looking for veterinary specialists?

Which specialty has, in general, the highest pay? or competitve to get in?

 

[Bill59]

Which specialty has, in general, the highest pay? or competitve to get in?

Those don’t necessarily go together.

But here’s a very general idea on how competitive some residencies are. This will vary somewhat between institutions and years.

Very competitive:
Surgery, ophthalmology, zoo

Pretty competitive:
Medicine, cardiology, neurology, oncology, radiology, dermatology

Less competitive:
Anesthesia, emergency/critical care, pathology, clinical pathology, lab animal, theriogenology

Too few positions to say:
Behavior, dentistry, radiation oncology, nutrition

Most of the clinical residencies require a rotating internship first. And getting an internship is very competitive – overall only about 40% match. Internships at academic institutions are somewhat more competitive than private practice internships.

And with some residencies, many people getting matched have 2 internships, a rotating and then a specialty internship (e.g. surgical or neurology). Some of the nonclinical residencies, such as pathology, don’t require an internship.

Salaries depend a lot on where you work.

Private specialty practice: usually start in the 100K range but can go up. In some cases a lot. If you’re paid on a production basis, it’s usually 25-30% of gross, in which case how much you make depends on if you work 40 hr weeks or 80 hr weeks. And if you’re the owner it’s like most other businesses – more potential reward, more risk.

Industry: this applies mostly to pathology and lab animal. Usually start a bit higher than private practice, typically with better hours (e.g. 40-hour weeks, no call).

Academics: less than private practice with less potential for increases over time.

The number of job opportunities varies depending on the specific specialty. This influences salaries as well. Lab animal is in huge demand. Close behind is path, surgery, derm, ophtho, onc, rad, neurology and cardiology. Medicine and em/critical care are next probably followed by anesthesia.

To get a zoo job, somebody has to die.

 

[Yah-E]

Damn Bill, see, all this info is new to me. Very interesting. I still feel for you guys. Veterinary, by far, is the most competitive Health Profession to get into (yes, much more competitive than medical and dental schools), but yet, y'all don't get financially rewarded as much as other health professions considering the amount of hard work you've invested in through schooling and working.

Well, at least we have you guys to take care of our loving pets. I give y'all props for absolutely love with what you do and financial rewards was never a career decision factor (unlike many predental students).

 

[doubled1st10]

We have a board certified dentist at our school who gives lectures every year on different things to build on one another. Our school does do some zoo animals, there is a big cat rescue up the road so they do lots of dentals on tigers, lions, etc.

 

[almostglue]

I was watching some show on Animal Planet once and the veterinarian called in a human dentist to do some of the dental work on a dog. I figure if the vet himself doesn't feel 100% sure about a procedure, it could be beneficial to at least consult with a human dentist who may have done a procedure several times. Seems like similar procedures in some cases (root canals, assesing fracture damage, etc.) so someone with more experience would be helpful, I think teeth enough are similar across species (I'll probably learn differently, but for now...).

My boss does his own dental work (small animal) for minor things but refers to a board specialist for the more serious/complicated cases, esp. those requiring dental radiographs. I know for large animal dentistry is becoming more of a thing. The vet I shadowed last summer did floats and such on horses, but he was self taught. The new doc who'd just graduated from vet school had taken a class on equine dentistry. Times are definitely changing.

For vets in areas without the specialists, I think the combination of the veterinarian and the human dentist could work quite nicely.

We see a lot of dentistry cases at the small animal clinic, some are really interesting - impactions, ankylosis, abscesses that blow out the side of the face (sad and painful, but at least we can help). It sure is nice to have those specialists for the referals, though. My dog appreciated it when he got his root canal. Well, he probably didn't appreciate it, but I did! Now he still has a lovely doggie smile.

 

[Yah-E]

Let me propose this question, so for vets that do their own dental work for small animals, are all animal sedated or do you guys do the local anesthesia thing too? I can't imagine using local anesthesia (needles) on a dog who requires an extraction or can you?

 

[UKYWildcat]

Let me propose this question, so for vets that do their own dental work for small animals, are all animal sedated or do you guys do the local anesthesia thing too? I can't imagine using local anesthesia (needles) on a dog who requires an extraction or can you?

In our practice the RVTs do all of the dental prophys under general anesthesia with intubation. Our state does not allow RVTs to do extractions so techs do everything but that. There are arguments for doing "standing" dentals but I personally feel that's a total waste of time. You simply cannot perform adequate curettage or any sort of subgingival evaluation - and if you're not going to do the subgingival work then you just have pretty white teeth with rotting gums. Let alone hand or ultrasonic scaling and then polishing on an awake dog or cat!

 

[almostglue]

I agree with UKYWildcat. If we do a dental (teeth cleaning - scale/polish/seal) the animal is anesthestized and intubated. The techs do the dentals and the Dr. checks the work and does any necessary extractions. I think if it was a young dog who was in to have puppy teeth pulled because they weren't lost for the adult teeth to come in we may just sedate because the dog's not old enough to require a complete cleaning, however, we usually try to combine puppy teeth removal with spay/neuter so we only have to sedate/anesthetize them one time. I wouldn't do anything with a dog's teeth with them awake (except for visual inspection) even if it was a dog I trusted with my life. That's just asking for trouble.

 

[Yah-E]

When I read your responses, I can't stop smiling...I think it's so cute that you guys do what I do, but to dogs. Two thumbs up for y'all.

UKYWildcat, is LSU SVM in Baton Rouge? I'm a LSU resident, but I'm in New Orleans. Just curious.

 

[birdvet2006]

Yah-E, did you know there's an alternative route to being a board certified veterinary dentist? You can be both a human dentist and a veterinarian and then become board certified that way (by-passing the residency or something like that). So if you went to vet school you could become a vet dentist. Kinda funny.

See the "DD" pathway here: http://www.avdc.org/requirements-avdc.htm