A backdoor?

[auphlee]

Perhaps by doing a prelim surgery year. Does persistence pay off? Or are you taking a large risk (ie: low odds)?

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[Tired]

Perhaps by doing a prelim surgery year. Does persistence pay off? Or are you taking a large risk (ie: low odds)?

Ortho is a categorical internship now.

Can you get in some places with a prelim surgery year? Probably, though I don't know of any off-hand. Does persistence pay off? Again, I have no idea, but one would imagine that if it's hard to transition from Prelim Surgery to Categorical Gen Surg, it's even tougher to move into Ortho.

But you still gotta meet the requirements of the Ortho Internship, which means Resitern time.

 

[auphlee]

Ortho is a categorical internship now.

Can you get in some places with a prelim surgery year? Probably, though I don't know of any off-hand. Does persistence pay off? Again, I have no idea, but one would imagine that if it's hard to transition from Prelim Surgery to Categorical Gen Surg, it's even tougher to move into Ortho.

But you still gotta meet the requirements of the Ortho Internship, which means Resitern time.

I guess more of my concern is that is there ever a point in pursuing a specialty that the stigma of a Caribbean MD can be overshadowed by your current performance (for example, as a prelim gen surgery resident). Or do you really have to go into a prelim gen surgery program with the willingness to be stuck in general surgery down the road?

 

[Tired]

I guess more of my concern is that is there ever a point in pursuing a specialty that the stigma of a Caribbean MD can be overshadowed by your current performance (for example, as a prelim gen surgery resident). Or do you really have to go into a prelim gen surgery program with the willingness to be stuck in general surgery down the road?

I know the Carribean matches some students into Ortho every year, especially if you're not picky and apply all the hell all over the place.

The Categorical Ortho Internship has only been around for 4y now I believe, and I don't know enough about other programs to address whether or not they are still taking Gen Surg or Transitional interns as R2's with the extra Resitern months.

Of course there's a stigma for the Carib graduates. And of course the way to overcome these is the same way you get into Ortho in the first place: killer Step 1 score, research, great evals on away rotations, LoRs. If you have those, you have (at least statistically) a shot.

On the other hand, if you're a Carib graduate with crappy Step 1 scores and no research, are you going to make up for that by being a stellar Prelim Surgery Intern? Again, I'm no PD, but it seems pretty unlikely. There remains a very heavy emphasis on how you look on paper in this field.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

Ancedotally this occasionally happens.


I have a friend who was a rock star in med school and got ~15-18 ortho interviews. For some reason he didn't match. Took a prelim year at one of his favorite programs (made the GS PD guarantee him a 2 month block on ortho) and kicked a$$ while on ortho. He matched there his next application cycle but had to repeat intern year.

As Tired mentions, it could happen but I certainly wouldn't put much faith in it. The competition is always going to be there for those spots and places seem to prefer 4th year students over prelims.

 

[auphlee]

Ancedotally this occasionally happens.


I have a friend who was a rock star in med school and got ~15-18 ortho interviews. For some reason he didn't match. Took a prelim year at one of his favorite programs (made the GS PD guarantee him a 2 month block on ortho) and kicked a$$ while on ortho. He matched there his next application cycle but had to repeat intern year.

As Tired mentions, it could happen but I certainly wouldn't put much faith in it. The competition is always going to be there for those spots and places seem to prefer 4th year students over prelims.

Is "kicking a$$" something someone can CHOOSE to do, or is there a large element of luck/'perception by superiors' involved?

 

[auphlee]

Ancedotally this occasionally happens.

Anytime anecdotally and occasionally appear together in a 4-word sentence, well, I think that pretty much sums it up.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

Also, I should have noted that I am an american allopathic grad. So I can't offer much in terms of the Caribbean side of things.

 

[basupran]

I was a carib student but have transferred into an LCME school for the sake of getting a good ortho residency. It is possible to get ortho from a caribbean school even though everyone says it is impossible...as long as you aren't hoping for HSS or something.

I personally know 4 caribbean grads who matched ortho, 2 of them at university programs. The 4 students I spoke to ranged from 90-95 on step 1. Three of them nailed their away rotation, and were subsequently accepted. One of them decided in their 4th year that he wanted ortho, and went for it with a mid-230's on step 1 and no research. He matched at a uni program.

I also have a friend who is a caribbean grad wanting ortho. He has double 99's, but did not apply for ortho. Instead, he decided on a prelim GS at a uni program. He will be applying for ortho this upcoming cycle....hope it works out.

Good luck to you! If you want it bad enough, you can get it. Just don't spend too many years trying.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I was a carib student but have transferred into an LCME school for the sake of getting a good ortho residency. It is possible to get ortho from a caribbean school even though everyone says it is impossible...as long as you aren't hoping for HSS or something.

I personally know 4 caribbean grads who matched ortho, 2 of them at university programs. The 4 students I spoke to ranged from 90-95 on step 1. Three of them nailed their away rotation, and were subsequently accepted. One of them decided in their 4th year that he wanted ortho, and went for it with a mid-230's on step 1 and no research. He matched at a uni program.

I also have a friend who is a caribbean grad wanting ortho. He has double 99's, but did not apply for ortho. Instead, he decided on a prelim GS at a uni program. He will be applying for ortho this upcoming cycle....hope it works out.
Good luck to you! If you want it bad enough, you can get it. Just don't spend too many years trying.

Any plan that involves electively taking a nondesignated Prelim or TY is a bad one.

 

[Tired]

Any plan that involves electively taking a nondesignated Prelim or TY is a bad one.

Ah, there you are. You were who I was thinking of.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Ah, there you are. You were who I was thinking of.

You were thinking of me? thats sweet.

To answer the original question, it's possible to go from a prelim year to ortho categorical. I just did it. As did another guy in my ortho program, as well as the other surgical prelim from my prior institution who failed to match. I have to repeat my internship because I went through the main match and because there are RRC requirements that I haven't met yet (damn plastics) but an extra 6 months of pain vs the rest of my life is an easy tradeoff.

With that said, it's not likely to happen. Just look at the data for non-U.S seniors. This takes into consideration not only Americans from off shore med schools (St. George, Ross, etc), but U.S. grads who are reapplying, and FMG's. Collectively, your chances are about 50/50 at best coming from that group.

In addtion, when I take into consideration all the ortho residents at my medical school, the other programs I awayed at as a medical student, the ortho residents where I did prelim surgery, the ortho residents at my program, and the residents at the programs where I interviewed, I can think of one Non-U.S. grad. That's just my anecdotal data, so take it for what it's worth.

Good luck.