7 year medical program vs. normal undergraduate?

Blossom27

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Hi guys! This is my first post here. Basically, I'm a senior in high school trying to decide where to go next year (down to the wire, I know haha). My options are TCNJ/NJMS 7 year program, Washington and Lee, or Tulane. I got scholarships at all of these schools, so cost is not really a factor for undergrad. I want to work on healthcare policy or something similar to that, so I think I would want to get an MPH at some point. My dream job would be working for the WHO. I'm afraid that going to the four year undergraduate would end up in me not getting into medical school or me not getting into a better medical school than NJMS (not that NJMS is bad, I'd just hate to feel as if I missed a better opportunity). Conversely, I'm afraid that going to NJMS would prevent me from a high powered research or management career, because when I googled the people in the WHO, NIH, and CDC that had jobs I wanted, they all went to very prestigious medical schools.


I wrote this list of pros and cons earlier, so here's some more information:

W&L:
PROS- cheapest, small class size, honor code, feeling of 'community'(?), study abroad often (I would go every spring term if I could; this term is only four weeks long and you only take one class so it does not involve missing pre-med reqs), research more available because of less students, mock-con, good connections through alumni and classmates.
CONS- greek life is very prevalent (80%+), Lexington is very isolated, the school is not diverse, social life is based around partying, there's a reputation of it being a school for the rich

TULANE:
PROS- school of public health (I would be able to major in biology, public health, AND international development fairly easily if I wanted, though I would probably either give up biology or do international development as a minor), city school, preferential admission to their medical school, diversity, New Orleans has a better culture, lots of student activities, I have friends there already (less important).
CONS- most expensive option, larger class sizes freshman year, harder to gain research opportunities, have to fly there (less important).

TCNJ/NJMS:
PROS- guaranteed admission into medical school, I liked NJMS
CONS- lots of people from my high school go to TCNJ, can't explore my interests while at TCNJ because of only being there for two or three years, NJMS might not be the *best* medical school I can get into (less important because I liked it), NJMS is in Newark, TCNJ is in Ewing which is a boring suburb, lack of undergraduate experience

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Hi guys! This is my first post here. Basically, I'm a senior in high school trying to decide where to go next year (down to the wire, I know haha). My options are TCNJ/NJMS 7 year program, Washington and Lee, or Tulane. I got scholarships at all of these schools, so cost is not really a factor for undergrad. I want to work on healthcare policy or something similar to that, so I think I would want to get an MPH at some point. My dream job would be working for the WHO. I'm afraid that going to the four year undergraduate would end up in me not getting into medical school or me not getting into a better medical school than NJMS (not that NJMS is bad, I'd just hate to feel as if I missed a better opportunity). Conversely, I'm afraid that going to NJMS would prevent me from a high powered research or management career, because when I googled the people in the WHO, NIH, and CDC that had jobs I wanted, they all went to very prestigious medical schools.


I wrote this list of pros and cons earlier, so here's some more information:

W&L:
PROS- cheapest, small class size, honor code, feeling of 'community'(?), study abroad often (I would go every spring term if I could; this term is only four weeks long and you only take one class so it does not involve missing pre-med reqs), research more available because of less students, mock-con, good connections through alumni and classmates.
CONS- greek life is very prevalent (80%+), Lexington is very isolated, the school is not diverse, social life is based around partying, there's a reputation of it being a school for the rich

TULANE:
PROS- school of public health (I would be able to major in biology, public health, AND international development fairly easily if I wanted, though I would probably either give up biology or do international development as a minor), city school, preferential admission to their medical school, diversity, New Orleans has a better culture, lots of student activities, I have friends there already (less important).
CONS- most expensive option, larger class sizes freshman year, harder to gain research opportunities, have to fly there (less important).

TCNJ/NJMS:
PROS- guaranteed admission into medical school, I liked NJMS
CONS- lots of people from my high school go to TCNJ, can't explore my interests while at TCNJ because of only being there for two or three years, NJMS might not be the *best* medical school I can get into (less important because I liked it), NJMS is in Newark, TCNJ is in Ewing which is a boring suburb, lack of undergraduate experience
I'd cross off W&L. The Greek life thing is weird unless you're super into joining a frat/sorority.

Ignore Tulane preferential admission. It's not research oriented so it probably wouldn't be much betterfor your career, and still difficult to get into. Wouldn't worry about lack of research for UG so much, it's an R1 university.

How much of a stretch to the budget is Tulane? Are you absolutely sure of medicine? How important is non-science coursework to you? Does the BS/MS program allow you to take the MCAT without giving up your spot? What's the minimum GPA you must maintain for NJMS program?
 
I'd cross off W&L. The Greek life thing is weird unless you're super into joining a frat/sorority.

Ignore Tulane preferential admission. It's not research oriented so it probably wouldn't be much betterfor your career, and still difficult to get into. Wouldn't worry about lack of research for UG so much, it's an R1 university.

How much of a stretch to the budget is Tulane? Are you absolutely sure of medicine? How important is non-science coursework to you? Does the BS/MS program allow you to take the MCAT without giving up your spot? What's the minimum GPA you must maintain for NJMS program?

Tulane gave me a full tuition scholarship, so I would just be paying room and board. My parents said they'd be alright with that! Washington and Lee gave me a full ride, and TCNJ gave me about $11k a year. I feel sure about medicine right now (it's what I've wanted for a long time), but there's always a chance I would change my mind in college (I've been getting cold feet recently and reevaluating why I want to be a doctor- I think the money might have been given more weight than it should have been). I would like to take non-science classes, because I feel like being well-rounded is important to me. If it was a necessity to specialize only in the sciences (like it would be at TCNJ) I could probably acclimate myself to it but it wouldn't be ideal. I have to take the MCAT pretty early (by December of junior year), and I could choose to apply out, but then I would have to spend an extra year at TCNJ (instead of graduating in three years) which I feel like would be a waste because I'd then have given up better scholarships to better schools to be at TCNJ. I need to maintain a 3.5 in science with no grade lower than a B. I think it is also a 3.5 overall GPA. This wouldn't be very difficult, according to the people currently in the program, because the people in the program tend to be among the smartest at TCNJ and break the curves in most classes.
 
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If you have thick social skin at all, go to Washington and Lee. Do not underestimate the alumni network in medicine and politics. Also, the professors there are amazing (beyond amazing especially with the personal attention and investment), engage in your cases and you can expect to ace the MCAT. Also phenomenal advising. No lie, you gotta be chill and potentially join a frat that doesn't take the Greek thing seriously. But I'm sorry the other two schools will not prepare you the way W&L would. If you engage in the academics seriously and don't take the social scene seriously it's the best option. You do need to like the outdoors though. PM if you want more detail.


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Your career goals are would be better served IMHO with a full liberal arts and sciences pedigree with strong academic training in politics and inequality. This will not get squeezed into a 7 year combined program. I have to say with the scholarship this is a no brained. But I may be biased.


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If you have thick social skin at all, go to Washington and Lee. Do not underestimate the alumni network in medicine and politics. Also, the professors there are amazing (beyond amazing especially with the personal attention and investment), engage in your cases and you can expect to ace the MCAT. Also phenomenal advising. No lie, you gotta be chill and potentially join a frat that doesn't take the Greek thing seriously. But I'm sorry the other two schools will not prepare you the way W&L would. If you engage in the academics seriously and don't take the social scene seriously it's the best option. You do need to like the outdoors though. PM if you want more detail.


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Uh, what? Since when does Tulane underprepare students? Your post is so biased it barely seems helpful.
 
Uh, what? Since when does Tulane underprepare students? Your post is so biased it barely seems helpful.

By no means was I trying to say Tulane would not prepare you. But the attention and rigor at W&L is top notch. That said I think small liberal arts and sciences colleges are generally better deals than large schools. And socially W&L can be hard depending on your personality. It certainly has room for improvement in that sphere.


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I think it would be foolish not to take your acceptance and run...

If for whatever reason you're absolutely killing undergrad then you can always ditch the program and apply out

Lock it in now, the stress of the application cycle isn't healthy
 
By no means was I trying to say Tulane would not prepare you. But the attention and rigor at W&L is top notch. That said I think small liberal arts and sciences colleges are generally better deals than large schools. And socially W&L can be hard depending on your personality. It certainly has room for improvement in that sphere.


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As a student at a small liberal arts college transferring to a medium-sized research university, I love the attention of a small school, but I've got a rather different perspective. Small school without many research projects and in a small city just isn't great for me, but I thought it would be a good fit before entering. I guess there's always the potential for incoming first-years to be wrong about what they want.
 
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As a student at a small liberal arts college transferring to a medium-sized research university, I love the attention of a small school, but I've got a rather different perspective. Small school without many research projects and in a small city just isn't great for me, but I thought it would be a good fit before entering. I guess there's always the potential for incoming first-years to be wrong about what they want.

Fit is important - I can't dispute that. I can't recommend "true New Yorkers" nor, much to my dismay, black students to attend W&L. Academically it's hard to beat (plus they have ample spring option and summer research away opportunities at R01 institutions), but no getting around the fact that it's a 1700 person school in a town of 7000 nestled in the South. Plenty of liberal faculty and students, but personally, I don't think that would be enough for me if I were black in Lexington.


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Anyways, feel free to PM me about any questions about W&L. I'm happy to answer any questions about academic or social aspects and I am critical in hindsight of certain aspects of the school. Still, I think a scholarship to W&L, especially with career aims in the WHO seems like a great deal without knowing more about the OPs fit metrics.


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Take the bird in the hand. The other schools are not that much better that it would be worth giving up the automatic acceptance. A lot of people from the USC Bac/MD programs applied out and got into much better schools.
 
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Fit is important - I can't dispute that. I can't recommend "true New Yorkers" nor, much to my dismay, black students to attend W&L. Academically it's hard to beat (plus they have ample spring option and summer research away opportunities at R01 institutions), but no getting around the fact that it's a 1700 person school in a town of 7000 nestled in the South. Plenty of liberal faculty and students, but personally, I don't think that would be enough for me if I were black in Lexington.


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The weird thing is that I'm from a small town in northern New England. I think the fact that I had to travel around to do anything made my rural setting feel a little larger (even though I knew I preferred cities).

Of course there's no denying that W+L is excellent, and I think term systems sound great (although that's another thing some students wouldn't like as much).
 
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Take the bird in the hand. The other schools are not that much better that it would be worth giving up the automatic acceptance. A lot of people from the USC Bac/MD programs applied out and got into much better schools.
Compressed curriculums, minimum GPAs, and MCAT requirements make it difficult to compare all BS/MD programs.
In this case, it sounds like the minimums will be easy to meet, but it also significantly changes the undergraduate experience (more stressful, less options outside of pre-med, more difficult to apply out, I believe TCNJ is much less residential and otherwise very different from the other options).
 
I should disclose that I had no intention of doing medicine as an high school student and after spending time in the UK, I am very skeptical of being able to settle on medicine at 17/18. But I applied to medical school in my late 20s, so it's hard for me to relate to the position of the OP.


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I'm from suburban NJ and I'm Indian, so the lack of diversity at W&L bothers me a little bit but I don't see it as insurmountable. I prefer city schools, but honestly didn't think New Orleans was that amazing (I was comparing it in my head to NYC, Philly, and Boston, so it might have been somewhat unfair). I'm politically a centrist though more liberal than conservative. I'm not a huge fan of very very political campuses, on either end of the spectrum. I'd rather have a healthy balance of people.
My problem with TCNJ is basically that's NJMS might limit me in "higher powered" careers. Applying out also doesn't make much sense to me because I'd no longer be able to finish in three years, so TCNJ would become the most expensive of the three options. I feel like if I chose TCNJ, it would have to be with the expectation of going to NJMS and not applying out.
As far as liking the schools, I liked both Tulane and W&L better than TCNJ but did not love or hate any of the schools. This process has been a little bit underwhelming for me because my parents basically told me they weren't willing to pay tuition (only room and bord) so I had to pick between scholarships rather than my top choices. I think I could learn to like any of these schools though.
 
I know the bird and the hand and all that, and if you wanted to do family medicine or even were set on private practice in a competitive specialty then the 7 year program would probably make the most sense. But I'm an adamant believer that if you want a career to sculpt and shape society as you have indicated, you need the real BA/BS so it's either Tulane or W&L IMHO.


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are there any top schools that have really high acceptance rates for medical careers other than traditional medical school?
 
But I'm an adamant believer that if you want a career to sculpt and shape society as you have indicated, you need the real BA/BS so it's either Tulane or W&L IMHO.

How true is this though, and how much of it is just what we've told ourselves to justify four years of time and debt getting a degree? He's already going to have a BS/BA and an MD? Why would that extra year help him so much?
 
Do you have to forfeit the NJMS safety seat if you wish to apply out? Or will you still be able to take a shot at the dream schools so there is no nagging what-ifs?
 
Do you have to forfeit the NJMS safety seat if you wish to apply out? Or will you still be able to take a shot at the dream schools so there is no nagging what-ifs?
I have to forfeit the seat and will not be allowed to reapply to NJMS. I will also not be graduating early from TCNJ.
 
I have to forfeit the seat and will not be allowed to reapply to NJMS. I will also not be graduating early from TCNJ.
...that's rough. The type of student that wins scholarship to W&L is the type I'd expect to build an impressive resume in college and score very well on the MCAT. If you dislike the accelerated undergrad and would want to apply out anyways if you turned out to be a competitive applicant, NJMS sounds like the wrong way to go. Only you know how much you value the peace of mind of a safety seat, and whether it is worth all the negatives or whether you'd likely just end up forfeiting it and applying out.
 
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Are you a Jersey resident, or would you have your own set of state schools to apply to if this bridge gets burned?
 
Are you a Jersey resident, or would you have your own set of state schools to apply to if this bridge gets burned?

They'd still have RWJ and Cooper (and Seton Hall by the time they apply). Better situation than a lot of states, even without NJMS.


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are there any top schools that have really high acceptance rates for medical careers other than traditional medical school?

To my knowledge medical school is the most competitive medical profession to enter (with the exception of veterinary school). As is the case at W&L (dental, vet and PA are part and parcel of the health professions advising there), I suspect all top schools pre-med departments are designed and well-equipped to assist students with any health profession application. This is a good question to ask once you are choosing an undergrad though. Nursing, like engineering, is usually a professional degree earned in parallel with a Bachelor's. In the case of nursing or engineering, small liberal arts schools are probably not a good route unless you are sure a Master's or PhD are in your career path, but larger top schools with nursing or engineering schools would be a great bet.
 
really, vet of all things gives medicine a run for its money?

There are only 30 veterinary schools in the country. The overall acceptance rate is comparable to medicine (about 50%), but many of these schools are in-state and do give preference. Thus, for applicants from certain states, veterinary schools can be extremely difficult to get into. I'm no expert though, just what I've always heard from pre-vet students.
 
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this makes more sense

similar admit rate is interesting but I'm skeptical the applicant populations are similar
I looked it up one time because pre-vets complain even more than pre-meds ("vet school is more competitive than med school nowadays!" - every pre-vet ever). I believe Cornell has one of the highest matriculant GPAs at 3.68.
 
I looked it up one time because pre-vets complain even more than pre-meds ("vet school is more competitive than med school nowadays!" - every pre-vet ever). I believe Cornell has one of the highest matriculant GPAs at 3.68.
Hah nice try pre-vets, you're just pre-dent Animal Lover Edition

edit: if these numbers I'm seeing online are accurate you need something like 75-85th percentiles on the GRE to be competitive for the strongest vet programs

skepticism vindicated
 
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I am indeed an NJ resident! I'm also a girl lol (sorry I didn't correct anyone earlier)
 
I am indeed an NJ resident! I'm also a girl lol (sorry I didn't correct anyone earlier)

Are you going to the W&L accepted student's day? I highly recommend the school, but I will say, from my perspective, it seemed like being at Washington and Lee as a woman wasn't easy even in my day. Much to the chagrin of many alumni, that fact is fortunately changing year by year - the recently built and I believe mandatory third year housing is likely to be one such positive change for gender relations and folks who choose not to participate in greek life.

I have some really close friends from Washington and Lee who are women and successful physicians recently graduating from excellent schools, but none of them would say that it was an easy place to be a woman. That said they will be the first to recommend you matriculate there as a pre-med, and that the school holds a special place in their heart. I suggest you visit for accepted student's day and really try to feel out the social environment and see if you would be happy there. Do the same at Tulane as well. It is my feeling that success in college is heavily dependent on emotional well-being and happiness.

No matter what you choose here, I suspect you will do well given your choices and scholarships.
 
What makes you hesitant to recommend for women? Isn't it about half female and has sorority life rivaling frats?
 
Are you going to the W&L accepted student's day? I highly recommend the school, but I will say, from my perspective, it seemed like being at Washington and Lee as a woman wasn't easy even in my day. Much to the chagrin of many alumni, that fact is fortunately changing year by year - the recently built and I believe mandatory third year housing is likely to be one such positive change for gender relations and folks who choose not to participate in greek life.

I have some really close friends from Washington and Lee who are women and successful physicians recently graduating from excellent schools, but none of them would say that it was an easy place to be a woman. That said they will be the first to recommend you matriculate there as a pre-med, and that the school holds a special place in their heart. I suggest you visit for accepted student's day and really try to feel out the social environment and see if you would be happy there. Do the same at Tulane as well. It is my feeling that success in college is heavily dependent on emotional well-being and happiness.

No matter what you choose here, I suspect you will do well given your choices and scholarships.
See question above, forgot to quote
 
What makes you hesitant to recommend for women? Isn't it about half female and has sorority life rivaling frats?

Yes to both of your second and third question. As for the first: The sororities operate on a match system, which is not exactly ideal for forming friendships in the first year and makes friendships less fluid; obviously you can make friends across sororities and fraternities but it takes more effort (I have very close friends from other fraternities, and I suspect that this never happened for, say, the class of 2002, so it really is changing a lot). But, the school is still shrugging off the feeling a being an all men's school where women happen to be studying too. It went co-ed in 1988, and in 2012 you could still tell it was working through this (albeit had made a lot of progress). All of these issues can be navigated and are not prohibitive of having a healthy and fun time there as a woman, but the structure doesn't actively enable this.

As I said the third year housing is a major improvement in this regard. Previously, after first term, it became difficult for men and women to regularly interact outside of the classroom and frat parties. Sororities aren't allowed to host parties, so the drinking social culture is necessarily going to the fraternities to party. An 18 year old drinking age would probably do much to fix that. I mean there are vibrant student organizations that don't involve drinking where the genders can interact (the Outing Club is the best IMHO), I'm just saying there is a structure there that makes it challenging. As much as I want to unconditionally recommend the school, I would be remiss not to point this out for the OP to consider when making her decision. It's an amazing place, but like everything, it has its flaws.
 
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Are you going to the W&L accepted student's day? I highly recommend the school, but I will say, from my perspective, it seemed like being at Washington and Lee as a woman wasn't easy even in my day. Much to the chagrin of many alumni, that fact is fortunately changing year by year - the recently built and I believe mandatory third year housing is likely to be one such positive change for gender relations and folks who choose not to participate in greek life.

I have some really close friends from Washington and Lee who are women and successful physicians recently graduating from excellent schools, but none of them would say that it was an easy place to be a woman. That said they will be the first to recommend you matriculate there as a pre-med, and that the school holds a special place in their heart. I suggest you visit for accepted student's day and really try to feel out the social environment and see if you would be happy there. Do the same at Tulane as well. It is my feeling that success in college is heavily dependent on emotional well-being and happiness.

No matter what you choose here, I suspect you will do well given your choices and scholarships.

I actually did go to W&L's accepted student day, and I went to Tulane's top scholar weekend. I liked both schools well enough. I felt as though the professors invest more time into their students at W&L and they seemed to really care. However, I thought Tulane was better for research and the amount of facilities available to students. I definitely thought student life at Tulane was the best of the three, because of the school's size, location, and its general vibes lol
 
Hi guys! This is my first post here. Basically, I'm a senior in high school trying to decide where to go next year (down to the wire, I know haha). My options are TCNJ/NJMS 7 year program, Washington and Lee, or Tulane. I got scholarships at all of these schools, so cost is not really a factor for undergrad. I want to work on healthcare policy or something similar to that, so I think I would want to get an MPH at some point. My dream job would be working for the WHO. I'm afraid that going to the four year undergraduate would end up in me not getting into medical school or me not getting into a better medical school than NJMS (not that NJMS is bad, I'd just hate to feel as if I missed a better opportunity). Conversely, I'm afraid that going to NJMS would prevent me from a high powered research or management career, because when I googled the people in the WHO, NIH, and CDC that had jobs I wanted, they all went to very prestigious medical schools.


I wrote this list of pros and cons earlier, so here's some more information:

W&L:
PROS- cheapest, small class size, honor code, feeling of 'community'(?), study abroad often (I would go every spring term if I could; this term is only four weeks long and you only take one class so it does not involve missing pre-med reqs), research more available because of less students, mock-con, good connections through alumni and classmates.
CONS- greek life is very prevalent (80%+), Lexington is very isolated, the school is not diverse, social life is based around partying, there's a reputation of it being a school for the rich

TULANE:
PROS- school of public health (I would be able to major in biology, public health, AND international development fairly easily if I wanted, though I would probably either give up biology or do international development as a minor), city school, preferential admission to their medical school, diversity, New Orleans has a better culture, lots of student activities, I have friends there already (less important).
CONS- most expensive option, larger class sizes freshman year, harder to gain research opportunities, have to fly there (less important).

TCNJ/NJMS:
PROS- guaranteed admission into medical school, I liked NJMS
CONS- lots of people from my high school go to TCNJ, can't explore my interests while at TCNJ because of only being there for two or three years, NJMS might not be the *best* medical school I can get into (less important because I liked it), NJMS is in Newark, TCNJ is in Ewing which is a boring suburb, lack of undergraduate experience

Congrats on all your options! Go with TCNJ/NJMS. If you decide you want to attend a more prestigious medical school in your junior year of college, TCNJ will not impede you. You can always apply out and forfeit your seat at a later date if you decide NJMS is not the place for you, but you will not have another opportunity to get into a BS/MD program if you pass things up at this point.

We have many BS/MD students who are happy at NJMS. You can end up in academia and be successful without attending higher ranked US News research schools. Feel free to PM us if you have additional questions!

Good luck with your decision!
 
I'm in a BS-MD program at another school (8 years, non-binding) and I would go with Tulane from what you said about your feelings about the atmosphere and your career goals. Although the safety net of admission is nice, the programs that ask that you to commit to their medical school or lose the guarantee are asking too much IMHO. You don't gain anything by going to TCNJ and applying out because you would lose the guarantee of admission, but you still went to your not-so-favorite undergraduate school. Maybe I'm biased because I don't have the uncertainty that so many premeds do about admission, but I know firsthand how maddening it can be to turn down a school you were in love with for the safer option. My answer would be different if the program at TCNJ were non-binding and/or you were 105% sure about medicine. Congrats on your options!
 
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I've found the 2015 match list for the BSMD program at TCNJ/NJMS. Are these "good" residencies? They're better than NJMS in general, but I'm not sure how to interpret them. (I have removed people's names for privacy)

EM, Jefferson
Anaesthesiology, Yale
PM & R, Kessler Institute
Pediatric Medicine, NJMS
Otolaryngology (ENT), Einstein
Ophthalmology, Einstein
Internal Medicine, U. Texas
General Surgery, Beth Israel NYC
Internal Medicine, Jefferson
Pediatrics, Einstein-Montefiore
Radiology, Northwestern
Radiology, U.Texas- Southwestern
Neurosurgery, Barrow Institute
Internal Medicine, U. Mass
Pediatric Radiology, Boston U/Brown U
Anaesthesiology, Einstein

Basically, I'm wondering if there's any point in trying to apply to a more prestigious medical school- are their residency matches much better than this? By more prestigious, I mean like NYU or Pitt. I'm not expecting that I'll be able to get into such schools, but that would be the dream :)
 
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