555 EM spots did not fill in Match

[TysonCook]

They will fill. Weather it's via scramble and FMG or other avenues.

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[nVictus]

The ivory tower of academic EM is vastly different from real world community EM, where the majority of people practice.

All these academic blogs/podcasts are silent on how ****ty EM is, almost like they're gaslighting us.

Totally get why students arent picking EM. No matter how "prestiguous" the program is, you'll still get beat every shift in the real world.

 

[Splenda88]

What is going on with EM?

My friend (AMG) who has been out of med school for 5 yrs matched EM today. Failed step1 twice, step2 once and has not taken step3 yet. I am happy for him but EM has to get their [insert] together.

 

[Splenda88]

And accepting people with step 1 failures and just grinning and baring it.

My friend failed step1 twice and step2 once; matched EM today. I am happy for him.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Good for him but he probably shouldn’t be a doctor.

 

[Splenda88]

Good for him but he probably shouldn’t be a doctor.

Well, NP with online degree and 500 hrs preceptorship are "doctors".

 

[Kryptocoin]

Every EM leader needs to hang their head in shame. This is completely embarrassing for the specialty.

For all the jokes we make about medical students, it sounds like they're actually listening. They'd rather do anything else than work in the ER.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Well, NP with online degree and 500 hrs preceptorship are "doctors".

Just because I call myself a ‘pro athlete’ doesn’t make it true.

 

[miacomet]

Do you have a link?

An excellent wake-up call to many levels of our dear leaders.

Are they capable of waking up? They will happily fill the slots with FMGs.

 

[Pudortu]

The fact that some NYC programs did not fill at ALL is scary and quite sad :/

I mean, wow…for example, St Barnabas Hosp is an amazing program in the Bronx. I’m literally floored that it didn’t fill and has so many spots available.

I did my residency in NYC and stBarnabas is notorious for bad nurses and scut work. More so than other NY places. I have several close close friends who did their training there. They all say the same thing. Great pathology and learning but terrible ancillary staff.

Im not trying to downplay their program. My friends are badass ER docs due to their training there and I have nothing but love and respect for them. But maybe just maybe residency programs will use this to change the culture of malignancy that plagues so many of these programs.

 

[DO3]

Some very well-established places that used to be super competitive with multiple open slots...this is eye opening. Also agree that it's gonna force programs to up their game. Malignant programs with a bunch of scut work will not match a decent resident again.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

EM is crappy so we really can't be shocked. Saying a student that has multiple failures shouldn't be able to get into EM is crazy considering what EM has become which is a CMG wasteland

We have a report saying we are going to implode in 10 years (go to a field that dies in a decade lol. What specialty has ever said that lol). Med students are some of the smartest and most wise youth. EM is just a bad option.

The Power house residency has colapsed even the magnificent In and Out residency can no longer attract American grads. EM will probably get some spots but it is because foriengn medical grads who want to be in America they would go into any specialty if they had the chose they would choose like AMG

 

[xaelia]

Looks like folks can SOAP through Thursday, so it could be a while before we know exactly what panned out.

SOAP

Learn more about the Supplemental Offer and Acceptance Program.

www.nrmp.org

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Th NP doing 500 hours is smarter than the premed doing all this and paying all this money but letting a standardized test tell you if you can ever get a job.

NP can even pick different specialties and even if they are bad litteraly the only downside of it is that people will talk about you on doctors forums and a noctor reddit.

For the premeds reading on this you would be better off doing NP and PA as you are now really think if the MD is worth it now.

 

[miacomet]

There are some truly crap residencies on there, like anything HCA and many of the NY and PA programs, but also some decent ones, like Sparrow.
Texas seems pretty unpopular- is it normal for Baylor not to fill?

Did @gamerEMdoc fill or is he scrambling?

 

[miacomet]

Some of the bigger name places like Duke, Baylor, Stony Brook and others need to feel the pain so they can speak up. Otherwise no one will keep caring if no name places like Nazareth PA, Bayhealth Med, Swedish Hospital, Memorial Health System OH, St.John Riverside, Nassau University Medical Center and others dont fill a single person in their incoming class. Those places should be shut down.

Baylor didn't fill.

 

[cyanide12345678]

There are some truly crap residencies on there, like anything HCA and many of the NY and PA programs, but also some decent ones, like Sparrow.
Texas seems pretty unpopular- is it normal for Baylor not to fill?

Did @gamerEMdoc fill or is he scrambling?

Thats not the real baylor college of medicine. Baylor is in Houston. The only two programs that existed in the Dallas area were UTSW and one in fort worth Tx. This Baylor Dallas is a completely brand new program, has to be. It didn’t exist in 2016 when i applied. And as a UTSW grad, i sure as hell should have been aware of Dallas programs.

 

[wysdoc]

Baylor didn't fill.

"Baylor University Medical Center, Dallas", despite the confusing name, is not affiliated with Baylor school of medicine.

 

[Fecal_Occult]

If just 2 of these programs could be shut down, emergency medicine in California might have a fighting chance. Ideally, an Inland Empire based program (RUHS, Desert, or Arrowhead) and Kaweah Delta should bite the bullet and close shop.

• Kaweah Delta Health Care District-CA (wow.... really misgauged their competitiveness)

 

[Kryptocoin]

• St Agnes Med Ctr-CA

How the hell does a Level III trauma hospital get approved for EM residency?

 

[Neuronix]

Emergency Medicine: 555/3011 = 18.4%
Family Medicine: 589/5100 = 11.5%
Internal Medicine: 545/11911 = 4.5% (although numbers for IM include preliminary so not as accurate)
Pediatrics: 91/3067 = 2.9%
Psychiatry: 21/2164 = 0.97%

Hello from rad onc forum.

Radiation oncology 44/206 = 21.4%

 

[WildWing]

Here's the link to the Reddit post. Please don't post the list directly here. We can't afford the legal costs like Reddit can.:

 

[FlaminHotER]

How the hell does a Level III trauma hospital get approved for EM residency?

That’s the million dollar question. Why the F did acgme approve these programs and continue this absurdity

 

[sylvanthus]

What is going on with EM?

My friend (AMG) who has been out of med school for 5 yrs matched EM today. Failed step1 twice, step2 once and has not taken step3 yet. I am happy for him but EM has to get their [insert] together.

Sweet Im gonna get icu admits from this guy arent I?

 

[sylvanthus]

Hello from rad onc forum.

Radiation oncology 44/206 = 21.4%

Were racing to the bottom dude! Cowabunga!

 

[miacomet]

Also, considering vastly fewer students applied to EM this year, the "I can only do EM crowd" seems to be muuuuch smaller than the noise they produce on the interwebs

 

[JacobMcCandles]

How the hell does a Level III trauma hospital get approved for EM residency?

Probably every old person slip and fall is counted as a “trauma”.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

EM is truly in its deathspiral when we are similar to RadOnc. Hopefully I can start transitioning to something and be at least partway out in five years.

 

[alphaholic06]

Probably every old person slip and fall is counted as a “trauma”.

And every old person who bumped their head on blood thinners is a level 1 trauma.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Sweet Im gonna get icu admits from this guy arent I?

You rather get a call from this guy or from a PA?

Just stirring the pot here a little bit, but might be an interesting question.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Probably every old person slip and fall is counted as a “trauma”.

My system takes most of these out of our hands and call it a trauma for the $$$ it brings.

 

[Kryptocoin]

EM is truly in its deathspiral when we are similar to RadOnc.

EM is even worse. Radonc is still competitive. You don't fail step 1 twice ( or even once) and still scramble/soap into Radonc. They'd rather go unfilled. These 550 EM spots will get filled by someone.......anyone.

 

[MDbecomesMD]

no one come for me for lurking as an M-0 (will be attending a US MD this fall), but how should I interpret this as someone who has always wanted to pursue Emergency Medicine? I am familiar with the ACEP report... and hear mixed thoughts from the MDs I work with in the ED currently. Wait and watch for the next ~3 years to see if things change?

 

[miacomet]

no one come for me for lurking as an M-0 (will be attending a US MD this fall), but how should I interpret this as someone who has always wanted to pursue Emergency Medicine? I am familiar with the ACEP report... and hear mixed thoughts from the MDs I work with in the ED currently. Wait and watch for the next ~3 years to see if things change?

Uh, do not do EM. Run from a sinking ship. This is not just a blip. This is a mess. But you will match if you want to!

 

[JacobMcCandles]

no one come for me for lurking as an M-0 (will be attending a US MD this fall), but how should I interpret this as someone who has always wanted to pursue Emergency Medicine? I am familiar with the ACEP report... and hear mixed thoughts from the MDs I work with in the ED currently. Wait and watch for the next ~3 years to see if things change?

Go into medical school with an open mind and take each rotation seriously. Most students change their mind several times.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

EM is even worse. Radonc is still competitive. You don't fail step 1 twice ( or even once) and still scramble/soap into Radonc. They'd rather go unfilled. These 550 EM spots will get filled by someone.......anyone.

That's true Rad Onc is academic and still small and very niche. EM has more spots than Peds

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Here's the link to the Reddit post. Please don't post the list directly here. We can't afford the legal costs like Reddit can.:

Man the state of MI appears to have waaaaay too many programs.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

no one come for me for lurking as an M-0 (will be attending a US MD this fall), but how should I interpret this as someone who has always wanted to pursue Emergency Medicine? I am familiar with the ACEP report... and hear mixed thoughts from the MDs I work with in the ED currently. Wait and watch for the next ~3 years to see if things change?

BRUH.

How much more clear can we make it?

ICEBERG DEAD AHEAD!!!!

Understand now?

 

[MDbecomesMD]

BRUH.

How much more clear can we make it?

ICEBERG DEAD AHEAD!!!!

Understand now?

I appreciate your reply but I’m not an idiot and you don’t have to treat me like one. I was simply hoping to hear someone’s genuine exposition on the future outlook for EM. Not just “run, hide, do anything else!”Preferably from a current resident or attending. Specialities have waned and waxed in popularity for many years and there have been similar issues in the past with other specialities that have course corrected.

 

[sylvanthus]

You rather get a call from this guy or from a PA?

Just stirring the pot here a little bit, but might be an interesting question.

Not gonna touch that one.

 

[sylvanthus]

I appreciate your reply but I’m not an idiot and you don’t have to treat me like one. I was simply hoping to hear someone’s genuine exposition on the future outlook for EM. Not just “run, hide, do anything else!”Preferably from a current resident or attending. Specialities have waned and waxed in popularity for many years and there have been similar issues in the past with other specialities that have course corrected.

Yaaaaa screw it not worth it. Good luck dude, may the odds be ever in your favor.

 

[MDbecomesMD]

Yaaaaa screw it not worth it. Good luck dude, may the odds be ever in your favor.

I appreciate your thoughts. For someone who likes the style of EM (shift work / wide scope /non-surgical) are there any other specialities you recommend exploring further?

 

[RustedFox]

no one come for me for lurking as an M-0 (will be attending a US MD this fall), but how should I interpret this as someone who has always wanted to pursue Emergency Medicine? I am familiar with the ACEP report... and hear mixed thoughts from the MDs I work with in the ED currently. Wait and watch for the next ~3 years to see if things change?

Bro.

We're all telling you that the future outlook is awful. What could a whole community of seasoned EM attendings possibly know?
I wish I could travel back in time and tell my past self (in like, a cool Terminator-like scene), "come with me if you want to live... now, go do FM, IM or GAS."

 

[MDbecomesMD]

Bro.

We're all telling you that the future outlook is awful. What could a whole community of seasoned EM attendings possibly know?
I wish I could travel back in time and tell my past self (in like, a cool Terminator-like scene), "come with me if you want to live... now, go do FM, IM or GAS."

I appreciate your perspective. So let me ask this, what do you think could happen in the world of EM for things to recover? Inhibit scope creep? Closing HCA programs? Or is there nothing to be done.

Further, what (if anything) could make it the speciality that you WISHED it was when you entered initially?

 

[RustedFox]

I appreciate your perspective. So let me ask this, what do you think could happen in the world of EM for things to recover? Inhibit scope creep? Closing HCA programs? Or is there nothing to be done.

Further, what (if anything) could make it the speciality that you WISHED it was when you entered initially?

1.) There is one thing: and that's stop the corporate practice of medicine. Unfortunately, that's not a reality on this planet.

2.) Autonomy. Any degree of control over what is and isn't to be tolerated, what is and isn't safe staffing levels, what is and isn't good for patient care.

 

[EthylMethylMan]

I appreciate your reply but I’m not an idiot and you don’t have to treat me like one. I was simply hoping to hear someone’s genuine exposition on the future outlook for EM. Not just “run, hide, do anything else!”Preferably from a current resident or attending. Specialities have waned and waxed in popularity for many years and there have been similar issues in the past with other specialities that have course corrected.

The issues are discussed around here ad nauseum, so people get a bit tired rehashing them. But, I mean, it's bad. The stuff you're hearing is basically all true. Suffocating midlevel encroachment, but lol we also share their liability by cosigning their charts. Dizzying rate of residency program expansion to further dilute the job market for docs, with thousands of ER docs projected to be unemployed by 2030. Also, not a new issue, but EM is probably the worst non-surgical specialty for your health. The sleep schedule changes and minute-to-minute stress are bad for you physically and mentally. This last one could be forgiven in the past because good pay was more ubiquitous. You could theoretically jump in, work in the ED for a decade or so, save like crazy, then back up to part time/do academics/GTFO and do something else entirely. Even though well-paying EM jobs still exist, they're more rare thanks to the first two issues.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Use me as a ban button

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

no one come for me for lurking as an M-0 (will be attending a US MD this fall), but how should I interpret this as someone who has always wanted to pursue Emergency Medicine? I am familiar with the ACEP report... and hear mixed thoughts from the MDs I work with in the ED currently. Wait and watch for the next ~3 years to see if things change?

What do you like about it?

 

[BoardingDoc]

I appreciate your perspective. So let me ask this, what do you think could happen in the world of EM for things to recover? Inhibit scope creep? Closing HCA programs? Or is there nothing to be done.

Further, what (if anything) could make it the speciality that you WISHED it was when you entered initially?

Remove 1500 resident training slots.
Ban the existence of CMGs
Require EDs to be staffed by a minimum MD ratio of 1:1 MD : PLP

Or, you know, accept that this will never happen and that the specialty is well and truly f***Ed.

 

[namethatsmell]

no one come for me for lurking as an M-0 (will be attending a US MD this fall), but how should I interpret this as someone who has always wanted to pursue Emergency Medicine? I am familiar with the ACEP report... and hear mixed thoughts from the MDs I work with in the ED currently. Wait and watch for the next ~3 years to see if things change?

How about this plan:
1) Do psychiatry