4th year electives

[swampdonkey]

I am a 3rd year student trying to plan my 4th year out so that I can find a residency program that fits me well.

My school doesn't have a PM&R program -- only a 2 week elective during IMED -- and my advisor is the only physiatrist in town and has never been an advisor before. So I"ve been trying to do a lot of research on my own.

Anyway, I have been looking online for 4th year electives and I would love to find a PM&R elective that is sports medicine or at least MSK based at a residency program that is more geared toward outpatient (again preferable sports med) PM&R.

Through the different programs websites I found, the university of virginia's program seems very appealing.

Can anyone give me some advice on which residency programs are more outpatient based than others, and also advice on any outpatient/sportsmed based 4th year electives.

Thanks

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[DOctorJay]

If you rotate at Mayo you'll spend time in all areas of rehab. This will give you a good exposure to the field and what to expect in residency. Rotating students spend a week on the spine service, a week on the brain service, and two weeks of mixed outpatient experiences including spine center, hand, msk clinic, EMG, and sports. You should be seeking out broad experiences as a med student to ensure you'll make it through the entire residency IMHO.

 

[fozzy40]

If you rotate at Mayo you'll spend time in all areas of rehab. This will give you a good exposure to the field and what to expect in residency. Rotating students spend a week on the spine service, a week on the brain service, and two weeks of mixed outpatient experiences including spine center, hand, msk clinic, EMG, and sports. You should be seeking out broad experiences as a med student to ensure you'll make it through the entire residency IMHO.

Completely agree

 

[Jitter Bug]

Use your rotation as a chance to check out a residency you like. So start thinking about where you'd like to match and get an elective rotation somwhere in the top of your list.

I did a 4 week rotation at Mayo and I agree it was a good experience with lots of variety.

 

[swampdonkey]

Use your rotation as a chance to check out a residency you like. So start thinking about where you'd like to match and get an elective rotation somwhere in the top of your list.


I guess thats what I'm trying to figure out. I'm searching for a residency that will give me the most/best exposure to outpatient PM&R with a tilt towards sports medicine. Once I find a few residency programs that I'm interested in I'll be able to compare/contrast how well they fit me personally, but I'm having trouble finding information from anywhere other than the programs websites themselves.

so what I'm asking for is:
what programs would give me the best training for sports medicine.

 

[superiortrunk5]

You won't find a better MSK/Sports Spine program than Mayo. By reputation, it is an outpatient focused program. As the other two posters eluded, this would be a very good option for a fourth year rotation. I rotated at a couple of other "top 5" programs, and I really wish I would have rotated at Mayo.

 

[cbest]

While the outpatient side of PM&R is pretty hot these days, don't forget to spend at least some time in the inpatient setting as a student as this will make up at least 12 months of your PM&R training. Also, I found on the interview trail that being able to speak sincerely about knowledge of the inpatient setting was important and, from what I gathered, impressive. A lot of the Chairs and PDs of PM&R programs are still inpatient physiatrists so make sure you have at least a little bit of knowledge of SCI, TBI, stroke rehab, etc.

An 'Intro to PM&R' clerkship offered by many programs is a great way to get a good look at many areas of PM&R because you spend 2 weeks in the inpatient setting and 2 in various outpatient settings.

In terms of electives that are good prep for PM&R, I found neurology, rheumatology, and sports medicine to be great. Also, orthopedic or neurosurgery will be beneficial for a future physiatrist.

In the end, there's no better field in all of medicine

 

[Neha25]

Hi, I'm in the same boat! How many audition electives do you recommend? I know people usually do anywhere from 0-3 depending on the specialty. Any that you guys especially recommend in the NY/NJ area? Thanks!

btw, my interests are procedures (EMG, injections, etc.), sports and peds

 

[DOctorJay]

2 rotations would be probably be ideal.
UMDNJ/Kessler and UMDNJ/RWJ would both be great places to rotate in NJ.

 

[swampdonkey]

This is very preliminary, but based on what I could find online so far the places that are most appealing to me are (family is in texas so notice the southern bias)

In no particular order:

San antonio
Baylor Dallas
Baylor houston
UTSW dallas
UT houston
Colorado
Utah
UC Davis
Arkansas
LSU
Virginia (UVA)
Emory (atlanta)
Missouri (columbia)
Pittsburgh
Ohio stat
Mayo -- heard good things but very far from family


Please feel free to pass along any pros/cons/comparisons/info of these programs

Some others that are geographically interesting but I didn't find as much info from the interview trails about are -- Alabama, kansas and the 2 florida schools

Again keep in mind I still have a year + and haven't seen any program in person so this is based on info I found online.

Thanks in advance

 

[DOctorJay]

add Temple, Jeff, and VCU to that list

 

[ivyleague22ny]

Hey swampdonkey or anyone else interested:

I'm currently a resident at Thomas Jefferson Univ in Philadelphia and we offer a comprehensive 4-week PM&R Rotation (Rehab 401) incorporating both a strong outpatient MSK/Spine experience and a strong Inpatient expereince in areas such as Spinal Cord Injuries and Pediatric Rehab. Medical students generally schedule their rotations between April of their 3rd year to late fall of their 4th year.

The rotation offers experiences at the following sites and can be tailored to the students specific interests within PM&R:
- Outpatient Jefferson Clinic (stroke, SCI, trigger points, EMG, prosthetic/orthotics)
- The Rothman Institute (premier Ortho/PM&R/MSK Center with
experiences in MSK, sports, and Interventional Spine)
- Inpatient Rehab at Jefferson (Immunodeficiency/cancer, strokes, amuptation, SCI, TBI)
- A.I. du Point Children's Hospital (Pediatric Rehab: Inpatient, Consults,
Outpatient cerebral palsy, spina bifuda, concussion clinics). Few places
in country that offers Peds/PM&R position and Peds PM&R fellowship
- Magee Rehabilitation Hospital (Inpatient Spinal Cord Injury, TBI, Stroke)
- Moss Rehabilitation (Amputee, Gait, EMG)

The main contact to set up the rotation is our Educational Coordinator Pat Williams and her phone number is (215) 955-6585.

Our elective rotation spots fill up quickly, so the earlier the better to contact us.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[Jitter Bug]

If you are a Texas boy I recommend UTSW/Baylor and Baylor Houston. Both well rounded programs. I don't know specifically about their sports exposure though.

 

[MedBronc23]

I hate to beat a dead horse. I rotated at Mayo last year before matching there. I initially went there because I had heard here in Omaha that I would do best going there, my home state of Colorado, or RIC because of proximity to get a broad based exposure to all aspects of PM&R during my rotation.

Went to Mayo. I learned most of what I knew about PM&R from that four weeks. It was truly a great experience. So much that it convinced me it was IMHO the best place to train and worth not moving back West closer to home and family. Could not be happier to have matched there.

Like Doctor Jay said, you spend 2 weeks on inpatient spine and brain (you get to do post ortho, amputee, other inpatient case too so its broad based dependent on patient census that week you are there). I really was interested in Pain, MSK, and Sports so the department at Mayo made sure I spent most of my time in these areas. I got to experience EMG, PEDS, and Hand as well which was awesome. I also was able to go to the sports medicine didactics with both ortho and PM&R which was sweet.

My rotation at Colorado was also very good, but I spent it mostly doing inpatient, which was fine because the staff was great. I made it known outpatient was my thing...so I got to do Burn, Spine Clinic, and Sports while I was there too. Most 4th year externships will be like this...so choose wisely knowing you will spend most time on inpatient at many programs...They want to see if you can handle the sickest patients we see (SCI and TBI ect....and rightly so). But rotate at a place that interests you and offers exposures to what you are interested in. The programs website is usually a good place to start.

If you are from TX, you cannot go wrong with UTSW. My favorite program I interviewed at in that direction. Their residents were very cool, happy, and staff was friendly. They also said that they did lots of hands on training and loved having students. So worth a look. UT/Baylor Houston has the rep for inpatient in those waters so also a good choice. Those guys are proud of their "workhorse program" so God Bless them. They are some of the best, esp at TIRR.

For word of mouth, my good friend in my prelim program is going to VCW. Loved his rotation there and matched there. Spaulding in Boston seemed to have great residents and broad based exposure. UW in Seattle would be great. Heard the RIC summer externship is awesome in Chicago. MCW & Michigan rotating students I met on interviews also said good things bout those places.

I know what I know. If you are interested at all...cannot go wrong with the WFMC. message me or DoctorJay if you want more info.

Good luck.

 

[NeuroAP86]

Is Rush, Marionjoy, and Northwestern the only places in Illinois that has electives for PM&R? I saw in VSAS that University of Illinois at Peoria has a rehab rotation but they don't have a residency, is that correct? So even though Loyola and Schwab have a residency, they do not offer elective rotations?

 

[PMR2008]

Is Rush, Marionjoy, and Northwestern the only places in Illinois that has electives for PM&R? I saw in VSAS that University of Illinois at Peoria has a rehab rotation but they don't have a residency, is that correct? So even though Loyola and Schwab have a residency, they do not offer elective rotations?

All 5 PM&R programs in Chicago offer electives. U of I Chicago used to have a residency program many years ago.

 

[NeuroAP86]

All 5 PM&R programs in Chicago offer electives. U of I Chicago used to have a residency program many years ago.

I got a spot at Schwab and Marionjoy but have not gotten around to calling Loyola or Rush yet. Would u happen to know if they have there rotation through VSAS or will they give you a spot on a first come first serve basis if I call them

 

[cbest]

Pretty sure Rush uses VSAS. You can also PM me with your details and I can pass along your information and when you want to rotate with our program coordinator.

 

[Eilat87]

You guys already have your electives scheduled?

What's the deal with the transcript situation. My school doesn't want to upload our transcripts onto VSAS because they feel it's too early and we don't have all our core clerkship completions.

But that's a given right? These programs expect us not to have everything complete.

 

[NeuroAP86]

You guys already have your electives scheduled?

What's the deal with the transcript situation. My school doesn't want to upload our transcripts onto VSAS because they feel it's too early and we don't have all our core clerkship completions.

But that's a given right? These programs expect us not to have everything complete.

Two of places I have set up are not through VSAS and its only blocking off that part of the month for me pending that the applications are filled out and accepted by the rotation site. Thats weird that they won't upload your transcript, my school uploaded ours within a week of VSAS being open.

 

[PMR2008]

I got a spot at Schwab and Marionjoy but have not gotten around to calling Loyola or Rush yet. Would u happen to know if they have there rotation through VSAS or will they give you a spot on a first come first serve basis if I call them

I think it is first come first serve but things might have changed since I rotated there almost 5 years ago.

 

[woa]

I'm a 4th yr with an elective left at the end of the year. Ive only had 1 pmr rotation, good idea to do another PM&R rotation or should I do a rotation like Neuro? any other suggestions?

 

[Spartyon]

Electives in pm&r are more to see if u like the specialty. Since u have ur interviews its pretty much ur call if u want more exposure. Neuro is a good call..go for it.

Sent from my ADR6300 using SDN Mobile

 

[DrMattOglesby]

I think doing electives is not only a good way to see if you like the specialty and/or demonstrate an interest in the field, but (and this is coming from a MS-III) they are a good way to express interest in particular programs and get a better sense of your own "fit" with them.

I am arguing this perspective as I have an interest in multiple programs and a lots of freedom in my 4th year schedule to accommodate experiencing a good portion of them.

I am also wondering if anybody has information on rotations in particular sub-specialties at particular programs. If I plan on doing 3 away rotations, I think it would be more ideal to diversify the services I work with. For example, I could plan for a general PM&R service for my 1st rotation, a PM&R sports medicine rotation at a 2nd program, and then a PM&R pain medicine service at my last rotation.

I hope to actualize the above-mentioned schedule of rotations with the following:
1) RIC - general
2) Mayo - sports
3) UCLA - pain

Do any students/residents/attendings know if such rotations are available at these programs (or other ones)? And if not, would it be out of line to request such a rotation?
Thanks for any insight.

 

[NeuroAP86]

I think it is first come first serve but things might have changed since I rotated there almost 5 years ago.

Now they do it through VSAS which won't be open until april so now just have to wait it

 

[MedBronc23]

I hate to beat a dead horse. I rotated at Mayo last year before matching there. I initially went there because I had heard here in Omaha that I would do best going there, my home state of Colorado, or RIC because of proximity to get a broad based exposure to all aspects of PM&R during my rotation.

Went to Mayo. I learned most of what I knew about PM&R from that four weeks. It was truly a great experience. So much that it convinced me it was IMHO the best place to train and worth not moving back West closer to home and family. Could not be happier to have matched there.

Like Doctor Jay said, you spend 2 weeks on inpatient spine and brain (you get to do post ortho, amputee, other inpatient case too so its broad based dependent on patient census that week you are there). I really was interested in Pain, MSK, and Sports so the department at Mayo made sure I spent most of my time in these areas. I got to experience EMG, PEDS, and Hand as well which was awesome. I also was able to go to the sports medicine didactics with both ortho and PM&R which was sweet.

My rotation at Colorado was also very good, but I spent it mostly doing inpatient, which was fine because the staff was great. I made it known outpatient was my thing...so I got to do Burn, Spine Clinic, and Sports while I was there too. Most 4th year externships will be like this...so choose wisely knowing you will spend most time on inpatient at many programs...They want to see if you can handle the sickest patients we see (SCI and TBI ect....and rightly so). But rotate at a place that interests you and offers exposures to what you are interested in. The programs website is usually a good place to start.

If you are from TX, you cannot go wrong with UTSW. My favorite program I interviewed at in that direction. Their residents were very cool, happy, and staff was friendly. They also said that they did lots of hands on training and loved having students. So worth a look. UT/Baylor Houston has the rep for inpatient in those waters so also a good choice. Those guys are proud of their "workhorse program" so God Bless them. They are some of the best, esp at TIRR.

For word of mouth, my good friend in my prelim program is going to VCW. Loved his rotation there and matched there. Spaulding in Boston seemed to have great residents and broad based exposure. UW in Seattle would be great. Heard the RIC summer externship is awesome in Chicago. MCW & Michigan rotating students I met on interviews also said good things bout those places.

I know what I know. If you are interested at all...cannot go wrong with the WFMC. message me or DoctorJay if you want more info.

Good luck.

Information on 4th year elective at mayo can be found here.

http://www.mayo.edu/msgme/visiting-medical-student-clerkships/application-and-scheduling

http://www.mayo.edu/msgme/visiting-...hysical-medicine-and-rehabilitation-minnesota

I think our 4th year rotation exposes you to all areas of PMR and especially great if your medical school does not have a strong PMR presence. (Like mine did not)

Plus we accept lots of people who rotate as medical students to the residency (3/7 my classmates)

Pm me for more information

 

[hashtag]

quick question for you all- I was curious how to find out which schools have paper admissions or other means of securing an elective, since my school told me that everything was through VSAS and on the site it says that the catalog of 2013-2014 electives doesn't come out until March 15th, yet others on the forum have already secured away rotations. Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[MedBronc23]

As above Mayo is online application.

Here is link to participating vsas programs

https://www.aamc.org/students/medstudents/vsas/119290/article_for_host_institutions.html

Lots of bigger PMR programs listed on there