3rd time around? What do you think!

[nycpsychloy]

Hi all,

So I've applied for Ph.D. programs twice already (with no success) and am gearing up for my third try. Since I began the process my credentials have expanded and I believe I am in a good situation for this application season but I'd love to have some feedback and maybe some school recommendations!

I am halfway through a clinical psychology Masters - 3.8 GPA
I have three years of research experience -
1 year - data entry, literature reviews at a pediatric hospital (epilepsy focused)
1 year at Columbia University - data manager using SPSS daily, writing protocols, IRB, manuscript editing and writing, grant writing
1 year working with a pediatric psychiatrist - working one on one with study subjects, manuscript/protocol writing

I had a 3.5 undergraduate GPA
I have a 575 on the GRE subject test
and an 1150 on the GRE general test

I am on two published papers and I am first author on one I am submitting this fall so it may be in press by the time applications are submitted.
I am on 12 presentation abstracts.

Since I have a lot of research experience I am aiming for a Clinical Psychology PhD rather then a PsyD. My career goals include teaching, some research, and part-time working with patients. I am interested in the resiliency and interpersonal relationships of Adolescents.

Pleeease! let me know what you think! I've been battling the idea of re-taking my GREs... does anyone think that is necessary!

Thanks!!

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[deleted176373]

Hi all,

Pleeease! let me know what you think! I've been battling the idea of re-taking my GREs... does anyone think that is necessary!

Thanks!!

That's a tough call. I would say yes, re-take the GRE if you are sure you can raise your score 100 points or more... I suspect you can in both the General and the Subject, although I probably would not waste my time on the subject test unless it was required for a specific program.

Mark

 

[psybee]

Everything else sounds really great -- I'm imagining that the last time you applied you didn't have all the experience you do now, because the only thing that is a little low are your scores. I agree with Mark -- there's time, so if you can up your GRE, I say go for it. Since you've worked so hard on everything else, why have that disparity if you can fix it?

 

[edieb]

Could you post what credentials you had last time as compared to what credentials you had this time and what schools you plan on applying to, and what type of research you're participating in?

 

[ivan87]

Hi,
That is great about your MA in Clinical Psy. I would apply to a Psy.D program instead, or a different Ph.D program. For example I assume your applying in the subject of psychology, well apply to a related field, and a whole different set of schools. If you do this and mix it up a little, you may be suprised at the responses you'll get. You probably will get accepted then. But something has to change here. I mean your resume is really impressive!
Ivan 87

 

[ohyeahright]

delete

 

[nycpsychloy]

Could you post what credentials you had last time as compared to what credentials you had this time and what schools you plan on applying to, and what type of research you're participating in?

I strengthened my CV since last time around with my 3rd year of research... I am now working with the age group I want to work with and I am getting clinical experience which was lacking the first two times around. I also have a second semester of my MA under my belt and will have a third by the time applications go in and if I maintain my GPA or increase I feel that will be a positive thing for me. I also only had a handful (maybe 5) presentation abstracts and no published papers last time around. I have to admit too, my essays were not so focused and I only applied to 6 schools both other times I applied and all 6 were amazing schools (ex. Stony Brook, Fordam, Columbia). My hopes now are to apply to at least 13-15 schools, all levels all over the country and with schools that specialize in children/adolescent research (primarily having to do with development and interpersonal relationships).

So my application battle plan is better, I just am having a hard time trying to decide between taking the GREs again or letting everything else hold me up.

(any advice on schools would be GREATLY appreciated too! )

 

[psybee]

it seems like you've got your head in the right space. siz schools was a really low number, so boosting it up to at least 12 will help a lot, as will opening up your geography and pursuing good programs that aren't as big name. how did you do interview-wise during your last rounds -- did you get many?

it can be hard to raise your GRE, but at the same time, even bringing it up 100, 150 points will make a big difference in your percentile rankings. where do you struggle most -- the verbal or math? i brought my math up from a 500 something (got 540 in my math SAT 15 years ago, did even worse when i took my first gre practice test) to a 640 by studying my ass off for 3 months. i do really well in verbal tests, and i have an arts background, so i do think that while my verbal strengths were obvious, boosting my score helped people see that even if math isn't my strength, i'm not bad at it.

did you apply to st. johns last time? it's also really competitive, but has a child clinical track and i've heard great things.

 

[nycpsychloy]

it seems like you've got your head in the right space. siz schools was a really low number, so boosting it up to at least 12 will help a lot, as will opening up your geography and pursuing good programs that aren't as big name. how did you do interview-wise during your last rounds -- did you get many?

it can be hard to raise your GRE, but at the same time, even bringing it up 100, 150 points will make a big difference in your percentile rankings. where do you struggle most -- the verbal or math? i brought my math up from a 500 something (got 540 in my math SAT 15 years ago, did even worse when i took my first gre practice test) to a 640 by studying my ass off for 3 months. i do really well in verbal tests, and i have an arts background, so i do think that while my verbal strengths were obvious, boosting my score helped people see that even if math isn't my strength, i'm not bad at it.

did you apply to st. johns last time? it's also really competitive, but has a child clinical track and i've heard great things.

No interviews both times around. And yeah I applied to St. Johns too but again my application was not very focused. I tried to sell my experience but forgot to include my interests in most of the essays.

My only issue with not taking the GREs again is that I am working full-time, going to school for my master's full-time, and spending the next few months finalizing these applications. I am afraid I won't be able to dedicate much time to studying for the general GREs but from what I am getting i think maybe i should make time.

I loved St. John's programs too... That is definitely on my list for this coming fall!

 

[psychanon]

Sounds like you're in a much better position than last time, and that you're in pretty good shape. It's true that your GREs may rule you out of some programs, and you may want to try to retake them if you can, but some programs don't put that much emphasis on GREs. You left out your undergrad GPA-- do you think that kept you from getting in before? Anyway, I definitely suggest applying to some of the same programs again, especially since you have pretty specific research interests-- there probably aren't a huge amount of programs you are a good match for, so you'll want to apply to as many of the ones that you are a good match for as possible. One piece of advice I have is not to limit yourself geographically. I don't know if it's a coincidence that you listed Columbia, Fordham, St. John's, & Stony Brook as programs you applied to before, but you should definitely not limit yourself to the NYC area. Programs in NYC are incredibly competitive without having commensurate quality (with some notable exceptions). Researchers with your interests are scattered around the country, so you'll have to be flexible if you want to go somewhere that's a good fit for you.
Good luck!

 

[deleted176373]

Sounds like you're in a much better position than last time, and that you're in pretty good shape. It's true that your GREs may rule you out of some programs, and you may want to try to retake them if you can, but some programs don't put that much emphasis on GREs. You left out your undergrad GPA-- do you think that kept you from getting in before?

He said it was a 3.5, good enough to be competitive.

Mark

 

[CheetahGirl]

Make sure the information below makes it into your C.V. and tweak your personal statement. For the personal statement, make sure the first sentence is very intriguing and holds your reader's attention. You want them to be very interested in meeting you. Once you get interviews, find some people that can help you do mock interviews...they are very helpful to rehearse what you will say.

I would limit talking about the "part-time working with patients" as a future goal and not make the research emphasis so heavy unless you know the specific program is research-focused. Schools need to know that you are motivated towards an academic career, but the humanistic quality of patient care is the most important to a lot of schools. They need to know that they will train you to be an excellent clinician that can do impeccable research, not a great researcher with a secondary understanding of human nature. You may not have meant what I interpreted; I just wanted to be clear about the order of importance at application time unless, again, you are applying to heavy research-focused PhD program.
Good Luck!

Hi all,

I am halfway through a clinical psychology Masters - 3.8 GPA
I have three years of research experience -
1 year - data entry, literature reviews at a pediatric hospital (epilepsy focused)
1 year at Columbia University - data manager using SPSS daily, writing protocols, IRB, manuscript editing and writing, grant writing
1 year working with a pediatric psychiatrist - working one on one with study subjects, manuscript/protocol writing

I had a 3.5 undergraduate GPA
I have a 575 on the GRE subject test
and an 1150 on the GRE general test

I am on two published papers and I am first author on one I am submitting this fall so it may be in press by the time applications are submitted.
I am on 12 presentation abstracts.

My career goals include teaching, some research, and part-time working with patients. I am interested in the resiliency and interpersonal relationships of Adolescents.

 

[edieb]

Hi all,

So I've applied for Ph.D. programs twice already (with no success) and am gearing up for my third try. Since I began the process my credentials have expanded and I believe I am in a good situation for this application season but I'd love to have some feedback and maybe some school recommendations!

I am halfway through a clinical psychology Masters - 3.8 GPA
I have three years of research experience -
1 year - data entry, literature reviews at a pediatric hospital (epilepsy focused)
1 year at Columbia University - data manager using SPSS daily, writing protocols, IRB, manuscript editing and writing, grant writing
1 year working with a pediatric psychiatrist - working one on one with study subjects, manuscript/protocol writing

I had a 3.5 undergraduate GPA
I have a 575 on the GRE subject test
and an 1150 on the GRE general test

I am on two published papers and I am first author on one I am submitting this fall so it may be in press by the time applications are submitted.
I am on 12 presentation abstracts.

Since I have a lot of research experience I am aiming for a Clinical Psychology PhD rather then a PsyD. My career goals include teaching, some research, and part-time working with patients. I am interested in the resiliency and interpersonal relationships of Adolescents.

Pleeease! let me know what you think! I've been battling the idea of re-taking my GREs... does anyone think that is necessary!

Thanks!!

It strikes me as a little strange that you didn't receive any interviews with the above credentials. Have you seen your letters of recommendation? For you to be considered, you probably need effusive letters talking about your potential for a research career, your empathy with patients, your writing and math skills, etc. In addition, the letter having the letter writer include SPECIFIC examples of some of the above would make the letter super!!! Have you seen your letters?

 

[psybee]

i REALLY tailored my applications to each school -- although content was of course repeated each of my 12 schools really recieved thier own essay -- no cutting and pasting. i gave my letter writers plenty of time and also gave them each information about each school i was applying to -- a short paragraph about the program in general, and then highlights -- who i wanted to work with, and what specifically was really exciting to me about the program. my letter writers really tailored thier letters to the schools and i don't doubt that was a boon.

 

[BorntoRun]

Your stats look pretty competitive. I don't think you mentioned this earlier - did you have interviews the first 2 times you applied? If no, or if you only had 1 or two, I would take a long, hard look at your personal statement, and possibly consider changing a few letter writers if you're not sure your recommendations were exuberant. I would also recommend applying to some of the same schools, those whose programs really suit you, but shaking it up and applying to schools you didn't apply to before as well. Apply as if this is your first time.

If you did have interviews and didn't get accepted after the interviews, you may need to spend more time anticipating and rehearsing interview questions, and realistically evaluating how you're coming across in interviews.

All that said, if you can raise your scores, I would recommend re-taking the GRE. You're missing the cut-offs for many good programs that might otherwise consider you, and with a year of a masters under your belt (plus a lot of studying), you should be able to land a 600+ on the psych gre.

Good luck!

 

[myelin]

I personally know people who have never broken the 1100 range on the GRE general and have gotten into solid PhD programs. One is on internship at an ivy league school and they scored 1070. So I don't think it's your GRE unless you're applying to very competitive programs that are cutting you from the start.

I too would re-evaluate your PS and LORs to see what's going on. Is your PS tailored to each school you're applying to? Have you had people read over your PS for errors or suggestions? With your LORs - are you sure the letter writers are writing great things about you? Mediocre letters can hurt just as bad as "bad" letters can, so make sure your letter writers are representing you well.

What are some of the schools you're applying to?

 

[nycpsychloy]

Hi all!

I really REALLY appreciate all the feedback I got from this post. I am really hoping this time around is a winner and I finally get where I want to be and I am definitely using all the advice you gave me to do this.

In regards to my LOR - my LORs should have been good enough the past two times I applied but will hopefully be stronger this time around. Instead of using undergraduate professors like before I will have two research PIs that I worked with and possibly one graduate school professor. I've received LORs from two of them in the past and they have been good (in my opinion!).

In regards to my PSs, I think they could use some work. I started out my essays last year with a cute little story that I hoped would get a sense of who I was as a person. I did some cut and paste work from my first essay and did not clearly define my goals at each particular school. I think I will get rid of the story this time and focus on the school and my intentions there and beyond. Any other suggestions anyone has having to do with PS writing plllease send my way! CheetahGirl & psybee- I appreciate your input and will definitely keep what you said in mind while writing these!

I have already started moving around my schedule this fall to make room for GRE studying and test taking. I really did not want to take them again but I agree with what most of you said... that I've worked hard in every other aspect of my credentials and its my hope that I can bump up my scores, even just a little bit, and be a shoe in someplace for next year.

Thanks again everyone!! This is a wonderful forum and a fantastic tool!!!

 

[psybee]

i'm glad i could be of some help! one process that you may find useful -- in addition to tailoring my essays to each school, i also asked my letter writers to tailor thier letters a bit to the schools. of course, i did not expect them to write a totally different letter for each of my 12 schools, but just a few details to show thier commitment not just to me, but to me getting into the specific programs. i gave my letter writers lots of time, and gave them a sheet for each school that just had a few sentences/short paragraph about the program, what i was especially excited about regarding the program (lots of great practica, community based clinic, health concentration, yadda yadda) and then a few lines about the prof or two (usually two) that i was interested in working for, what thier research was, and why i thought it was interesting. it was a short doc, but not only did this give my letter writers a way to personalize thier letters, but writing it also helped clarify my interests in the program and gave me a broader overview of the programs you're applying to and help you really see them in relation to each other. i found it really helpful, anyway, and it helped jump start my essay writing.

 

[nycpsychloy]

i'm glad i could be of some help! one process that you may find useful -- in addition to tailoring my essays to each school, i also asked my letter writers to tailor thier letters a bit to the schools. of course, i did not expect them to write a totally different letter for each of my 12 schools, but just a few details to show thier commitment not just to me, but to me getting into the specific programs. i gave my letter writers lots of time, and gave them a sheet for each school that just had a few sentences/short paragraph about the program, what i was especially excited about regarding the program (lots of great practica, community based clinic, health concentration, yadda yadda) and then a few lines about the prof or two (usually two) that i was interested in working for, what thier research was, and why i thought it was interesting. it was a short doc, but not only did this give my letter writers a way to personalize thier letters, but writing it also helped clarify my interests in the program and gave me a broader overview of the programs you're applying to and help you really see them in relation to each other. i found it really helpful, anyway, and it helped jump start my essay writing.

How many schools did you apply to? I have a list of 20 right now... I'm spending the weekend cutting that down to about 12 or 13 and might throw a couple counseling phd schools or psyd schools in there to make it 15. Do you think thats a good plan?

 

[Marissa4usa]

How many schools did you apply to? I have a list of 20 right now... I'm spending the weekend cutting that down to about 12 or 13 and might throw a couple counseling phd schools or psyd schools in there to make it 15. Do you think thats a good plan?

I wouldn't "throw in" anything but only apply to programs that you would be happy to attend( also for financial reasons as many PsyD's dont have funding). Having said I think one sometimes has to be a little (not too much though) flexible on one's research interest but should never sacrifice on the degree one pursues just to make sure you get "a" degree, i.e. I would not apply to a PsyD program if you mainly want to do research and eventually do heavy research related work. There is just no point in applying to these programs even if there is a prof who has your research interest.

 

[nycpsychloy]

I wouldn't "throw in" anything but only apply to programs that you would be happy to attend( also for financial reasons as many PsyD's dont have funding). Having said I think one sometimes has to be a little (not too much though) flexible on one's research interest but should never sacrifice on the degree one pursues just to make sure you get "a" degree, i.e. I would not apply to a PsyD program if you mainly want to do research and eventually do heavy research related work. There is just no point in applying to these programs even if there is a prof who has your research interest.

Hi Marissa4usa, I used that term "throwing in" lightly. I plan to research the programs and only put them in if they really fit my interest. My career goals can be achieved using any three of those degrees but my experience (mostly research related) fits a clinical psych PhD program more then the other two which is why I am most interested in that program. (I have only a couple months of patient contact experience and that has only been in a research setting) I appreciate your advice though and I completely agree. Any of those degrees are a huge commitment and I don't think anyone should commit to one unless they are passionate about it!


I'm finalizing my school list this weekend, any advice on schools? # of schools to pick? or any suggestions with applications?? Thanx!

 

[psybee]

i did 12 -- others i know did more, some a lot more, some less. I was limiting my self geographically, though, which was stressful. if i had been more open i could have added a good 3 or 4 more programs to my list. if you find 20 programs that you think just look amazing and you have the money to apply to 20 (and time), i say go for it. many folks on this board seem to mention 15 as a good number. There's another current thread just on this topic, and it had lots of good advice.

 

[nycpsychloy]

i did 12 -- others i know did more, some a lot more, some less. I was limiting my self geographically, though, which was stressful. if i had been more open i could have added a good 3 or 4 more programs to my list. if you find 20 programs that you think just look amazing and you have the money to apply to 20 (and time), i say go for it. many folks on this board seem to mention 15 as a good number. There's another current thread just on this topic, and it had lots of good advice.

Thanks psybee!!!!

 

[CheetahGirl]

CheetahGirl & psybee- I appreciate your input and will definitely keep what you said in mind while writing these!

You are welcome. I had some great people (all PhDs in clinical psychology read through my essays). I rewrote my PS so many times...the first rendition was a shocking clinical story (held my readers' attention, but maybe it was too intense, not voyeuristic), but I ended up transforming my PS into something very personal...about my personal experiences growing up in my family and how my research interests stemmed from these experiences. I actually shared some stuff about myself (that I was comfortable sharing) which expressed how I was attuned to my own introspection. Delve deeply and something will come about that will be uniquely you...uniquely special. No cute stories...you want stories that show your depth of soul and degree of intellect. Reserve "cute" for how you look (not act) on interview day.

Oh, yes...and the LORs are another great bump! You can even ask your recommenders if they would like you to write a draft for them to edit. Some of my recommenders (I had 6, just in case some of them didn't get a LOR submitted in time) liked the idea, while some said that they preferred to write their own letters. It's a hard to write about yourself, but for the letters that I drafted, I included things that targeted areas of weakness and had my recommenders (kind of) explain how those weaknesses were not characteristic of my actual work. The recommenders' final versions were so much better than my initial drafts, but I helped them get started.

Thinking back now...it was a lot of work. But, stay focused and try not to get discouraged. Your tenacity will pay off. One very prominent faculty member from a very prominent NYC PhD program told me that she did not get accepted the first time and it was chance that she got in the 2nd time. She told me that if you really want it, you have to fight for it. I thought she was discouraging me, but she was motivating me. You do have to put a fight, so to speak.