24 MCAT, otherwise strong application

[AdrianVeidt]

10th percentile = better than 10% of said population (156 according to msar).

What is there to review?

Anyway for people saying impossible: just go check MDApps. I guarantee there are some white people with a MCAT of 24 or lower who get accepted into upstate.

And upstate CLEARLY favors in state applicants by a huge margin. Check MSAR acceptance information.

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[Goro]

OP came here looking for realistic advice, and not hugs.

you guys are real debbie downers. And completely lacking of empathy.

Sorry, but you gave a range of three years (2010-2012), not a single cycle, so we're talking about what, 40-0000 people? 5K is not 25%. For legacies, I see them in reality here, and elsewhere as I keep in touch with my colleagues at other medical schools (both allo and DO).

Yes, one has a chance of winning the lotto too, but it doesn't mean that it's worth buying the ticket. Considering the competition OP has to face, it's not worth her while to apply. Chances of succeas are not likely.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

^^ nah, we're talking about 20k

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2012factstable24.pdf

There's no lottery in the world with a 25% chance of success

 

[Pons Asinorum]

^^ nah, we're talking about 20k

https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2012factstable24.pdf

There's no lottery in the world with a 25% chance of success

By all means keep posting aggregate data that when applied to the OP's individual case is laughably inappropriate, for reasons that have been decisively argued. You're arguing against people with actual knowledge of the specifics of this case, and you still cling to it. I get it, you're applying next cycle, with kind of similar circumstances (geographic limitation) and don't like hearing that geographic limitations can be tough if your stats aren't great. They can be really tough when your stats are pretty lousy. Your hard-held wishes and confirmation bias doesn't make them facts.

 

[mcloaf]

10th percentile = better than 10% of said population (156 according to msar).

What is there to review?

Anyway for people saying impossible: just go check MDApps. I guarantee there are some white people with a MCAT of 24 or lower who get accepted into upstate.

And upstate CLEARLY favors in state applicants by a huge margin. Check MSAR acceptance information.

And none of this helps OP with a 3.2 sGPA and significant decrease on an MCAT retake.

 

[mspeedwagon]

The OP asked about Upstate and not about medical school in general. The OP has a good chance of getting into a med school in the US (applying broadly to both MD and DO schools).

But, at SUNY Upstate... no chance without an improved MCAT. Don't believe me, call them. Spoiler alert: I may have already done that.

I also went on MDApps... surprise. Couldn't find ONE acceptance in the last few years with a 24. Lowest I found among accepted students was 27 (from back in 2010) and the person was an URM: http://www.mdapplicants.com/search.php?style=basic (can't seem to link accepted students at Upstate).

I wouldn't post and argue if this wasn't a school I looked into getting into myself and spent a lot of time on (and I'm likely to apply to).

By all means keep posting aggregate data that when applied to the OP's individual case is laughably inappropriate, for reasons that have been decisively argued. You're arguing against people with actual knowledge of the specifics of this case, and you still cling to it. I get it, you're applying next cycle, with kind of similar circumstances (geographic limitation) and don't like hearing that geographic limitations can be tough if your stats aren't great. They can be really tough when your stats are pretty lousy. Your hard-held wishes and confirmation bias doesn't make them facts.

 

[JBOB]

10th percentile = better than 10% of said population (156 according to msar).

What is there to review?

Anyway for people saying impossible: just go check MDApps. I guarantee there are some white people with a MCAT of 24 or lower who get accepted into upstate.

And upstate CLEARLY favors in state applicants by a huge margin. Check MSAR acceptance information.

Better than or equal to. If the lowest 15% of students all got 28s, the 10th percentile would be 28. So since the 10th percentile is 28, at least 10% of students got 28s or lower, NOT 27s or lower. Also I know that by "range" you meant the 10th percentile to 90th percentile on MSAR, but range means the upper and lower limits, some med schools have this value on their websites but it's not on MSAR.

 

[occams_razor]

Thanks for your encouragement. But I'm not a minority student. My cumulative GPA is 3.6. My science GPA is fairly low at 3.2. Thank you again and best wishes.

with that science GPA and the 24 MCAT, you are going to have a very rough cycle.. you need to re-take the MCAT and shoot for 30-31+ if you want MD and you will also need post-bacc work to bring up your 3.2 science GPA. I would shoot for DO over MD if I were you

 

[deTcort]

Adrian, I have it on good info that Upstate's average MCAT is 31.

 

[deTcort]

Few things you clearly don't know about Upstate:
- Upstate only gives very slight preference to in-state for admission. That's right, they don't have a very strong NY bias (like University of New Mexico does for people from NM or North Dakota does for ND).
- They get quite a few URM applicants and their stats aren't low. The few URMs that I know that went to Upstate have scores around 28-30.

Upstate is comprised of approximately 85% in-state students and they get significantly more OOS apps than IS IIRC. I would categorize their IS preference as moderate rather than slight. It can help significantly.

As for your URM stats, I suspect you are only including direct URM admits. I believe that I'm technically considered a URM and I know a couple of fellow ones who were accepted to Upstate on the condition that they satisfactorily complete a 1 yr post-bac program at Upstate before matriculating. This group probably has an avg MCAT of 25 or 26.

I agree with the rest of your points about it being a long shot.

 

[candbgirl]

mspeedwagon wrote:

The OP asked about Upstate and not about medical school in general. The OP has a good chance of getting into a med school in the US (applying broadly to both MD and DO schools).

Do you really think so? With a 24MCAT and a 3.2 sgpa? Even the MD schools?

 

[Pons Asinorum]

mspeedwagon wrote:



Do you really think so? With a 24MCAT and a 3.2 sgpa? Even the MD schools?

No not just the MD schools...that's why m said MD and DO schools. If someone with those stats, assuming the EC's are legit (they look pretty good), then yes, they'll definitely get some DO love, possibly, but not probably, some MD love as well.

 

[mspeedwagon]

There are some mission based MD schools that might really like the OPs resume (SUNY Upstate is not really a mission school... thinking schools like Creighton here).

There are newer MD schools, which also may like the OPs resume (and their numbers aren't available yet). Somewhere like Frank Netter SOM.

But, if the OP were to target apply to specific schools (both MD and DO), I do believe the OP has a good chance of getting into a medical school in the US.

And, yes even with a 24 MCAT, 3.6 cGPA, 3.2 sGPA. Some schools will likely look at both MCAT scores.

But, obviously the chance would be better, with better stats (but the OP has done a good enough job to stay in contention for a US med school... again, not MD specifically, but MD/DO).

mspeedwagon wrote:

Do you really think so? With a 24MCAT and a 3.2 sgpa? Even the MD schools?

 

[AdrianVeidt]

By all means keep posting aggregate data that when applied to the OP's individual case is laughably inappropriate, for reasons that have been decisively argued. You're arguing against people with actual knowledge of the specifics of this case, and you still cling to it. I get it, you're applying next cycle, with kind of similar circumstances (geographic limitation) and don't like hearing that geographic limitations can be tough if your stats aren't great. They can be really tough when your stats are pretty lousy. Your hard-held wishes and confirmation bias doesn't make them facts.

wat

The OP asked about Upstate and not about medical school in general. The OP has a good chance of getting into a med school in the US (applying broadly to both MD and DO schools).

But, at SUNY Upstate... no chance without an improved MCAT. Don't believe me, call them. Spoiler alert: I may have already done that.

I also went on MDApps... surprise. Couldn't find ONE acceptance in the last few years with a 24. Lowest I found among accepted students was 27 (from back in 2010) and the person was an URM: http://www.mdapplicants.com/search.php?style=basic (can't seem to link accepted students at Upstate).

I wouldn't post and argue if this wasn't a school I looked into getting into myself and spent a lot of time on (and I'm likely to apply to).

I think there was one in 07 and 04. rest where black kids.

Better than or equal to. If the lowest 15% of students all got 28s, the 10th percentile would be 28. So since the 10th percentile is 28, at least 10% of students got 28s or lower, NOT 27s or lower. Also I know that by "range" you meant the 10th percentile to 90th percentile on MSAR, but range means the upper and lower limits, some med schools have this value on their websites but it's not on MSAR.

I'm definitely too lazy to check upstate range (this really has nothing to do with me, I just like to provide people with hope)

 

[Pons Asinorum]

wat

I'll take that as "Pons, you're right."

 

[AdrianVeidt]

I'll take that as "Pons, you're right."

Please don't. Take that as I don't know what the hell you're talking about. How is data on people with 24-26 MCAT scores inappropriate for someone with a 24 MCAT score??? How is data on the lower scoring students accepted to upstate inappropriate for someone applying to upstate with lower scores? How am I arguing against people with specific knowledge when those claiming to have specific knowledge have knowledge that is clearly incorrect? How do I have geographical limitations similar to OP when I'm applying to more schools out of my state than in state and not applying EDP? How do I not like hearing about limitations if my stats aren't great when my MCAT is average and my GPA is well above average? How am I portraying bias in favor of OP's success more than anyone else is portraying it against OP?

Like I said, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. So I replied with 'wat'.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

How is data on people with 24-26 MCAT scores inappropriate for someone with a 24 MCAT score??? How is data on the lower scoring students accepted to upstate inappropriate for someone applying to upstate with lower scores? How am I arguing against people with specific knowledge when those claiming to have specific knowledge have knowledge that is clearly incorrect? How do I have geographical limitations similar to OP when I'm applying to more schools out of my state than in state and not applying EDP? How do I not like hearing about limitations if my stats aren't great when my MCAT is average and my GPA is well above average? How am I portraying bias in favor of OP's success more than anyone else is portraying it against OP?

How many of the people in your 24-26 MCAT score success stories applied to one school EDP, at a decent program, with an MCAT score at the rock bottom of that bracket, with well below average GPA? See how aggregate data and individual circumstances can differ? How are you giving the thumbs to this plan of the OP when that hope rests on two people you claim to have found with similarly terrible stats, one in 2007 and one in 2004, who both got accepted WHEN ALL STATS WERE LOWER FOR ACCEPTED STUDENTS and there were significantly fewer applicants per spot, therefore making your point moot? You haven't disproven anything the more-informed posters have posted, other than to claim to have found in MDApps (I assume) two people, over the last decade, who are your counterfactual poster children? I won't even argue about your bias/motivations, because its not that germane to the OP.

But for the sake of all involved, OP, by all means, hang your laundry on those stats and apply EDP to SUNY Upstate. You are a lock to get an acceptance. Nothing could go wrong with your plan. Everything sunny all the time always.

 

[Textbookversion]

A non URM, non billionaire donor's kid, non dean's kid with a 3.2 sGPA and 24 MCAT the OP is not getting into a US MD school this cycle, period, end of story. NOT HAPPENING. I'd also say, 80% chance not happening for DO, although he does have a shot at the really bottom barrel ones.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

How many of the people in your 24-26 MCAT score success stories applied to one school EDP, at a decent program, with an MCAT score at the rock bottom of that bracket, with well below average GPA? See how aggregate data and individual circumstances can differ? How are you giving the thumbs to this plan of the OP when that hope rests on two people you claim to have found with similarly terrible stats, one in 2007 and one in 2004, who both got accepted WHEN ALL STATS WERE LOWER FOR ACCEPTED STUDENTS and there were significantly fewer applicants per spot, therefore making your point moot? You haven't disproven anything the more-informed posters have posted, other than to claim to have found in MDApps (I assume) two people, over the last decade, who are your counterfactual poster children? I won't even argue about your bias/motivations, because its not that germane to the OP.

But for the sake of all involved, OP, by all means, hang your laundry on those stats and apply EDP to SUNY Upstate. You are a lock to get an acceptance. Nothing could go wrong with your plan. Everything sunny all the time always.

Yeah you should read all of my posts. I'm not arguing that OP is a guarantee for SUNY upstate, I'm arguing against the people saying it's impossible for OP to get into any school. Several people made the claim of impossibility which I feel is asinine and apathetic. Almost 5k people prove that wrong.

As for knowledgeable posters having wrong knowledge, I was referring to the guy who said SUNY doesn't favor NY residents when they clearly do.

He's certainly not a lock but there is a possibility. A 25% possibility. 3/4 empty or 1/4 fill? All depends on your outlook; I tend to encourage positivity.

 

[mspeedwagon]

SUNY Upstate DOES NOT have a very strong preference for NY (about 13% is OOS). I heard it from the director of admissions of Upstate. It's also VERY clear on their website. They ONLY have a SLIGHT preference for in-state. This is very different from a University of North Dakota (that has 0% OOS).

http://www.upstate.edu/com/admissions/faqs.php

"SUNY Upstate Medical University is a public/state institution and does give a slight preference to applicant's from New York state when reviewing applications. However, we welcome applications from and accept many out of state applicants each year."

Also, go back and read the original post. The OP asked about their chances at Upstate.

As for knowledgeable posters having wrong knowledge, I was referring to the guy who said SUNY doesn't favor NY residents when they clearly do.

He's certainly not a lock but there is a possibility. A 25% possibility. 3/4 empty or 1/4 fill? All depends on your outlook; I tend to encourage positivity.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

https://services.aamc.org/30/msar/schoolDetails/150/acceptance

The numbers don't lie. 10% out of state, 3% international. 87% in state.

and actually OP stated that he is going to retake his MCAT and maybe apply regular decision

 

[mspeedwagon]

That was a typo earlier (I was typing 13 not 30). 10% is a large OOS population. Compare North Dakota or New Mexico. Not too many OOS rushing to go to Syracuse.

https://services.aamc.org/30/msar/schoolDetails/150/acceptance

The numbers don't lie. 10% out of state, 3% international. 87% in state.

and actually OP stated that he is going to retake his MCAT and maybe apply regular decision

 

[Pattycake25]

I am not, mostly because I just want to go to Upstate and Upstate is not a DO school.

So should I retake on my own and apply early decision OR take a Kaplan course and apply regular decision?

That is the question.... I guess.

Many thanks.

Leelah, I know you probably already feel "piled upon", but I saw your proposed timeline in another post - taking the MCAT in August and applying regular decision. I'm sorry, but I don't think that will work much better for you. Assuming you take the test early August, and have your AMCAS otherwise completely finished by then, we're talking about you receiving secondaries in early September. I'll spot you a very rapid turnaround time for top choices, so let's say you're complete second week of September. While this is by no means late, it's also definitely not early.

Now let's talk about your projected stats. You mention practices consistently being around 29 and 30, but what you have to realize is that it is fairly standard for your actual performance to be a couple of points lower than your average practice. Maybe the prep course will work wonders for you, but at this point, it would be safest to assume your 2013 MCAT score to be high 20s. So you will be applying with, say, 3.6/3.2/29 - these are, to put it bluntly, very mediocre stats for MD programs. Now factor in the lack of earliness in your application - if you apply very broadly, you'll probably get some nibbles, but you're not overly likely to be accepted. Finally, you sound rather selective in your choices, but the way you plan to proceed, you will not be in a position to be picky.

I strongly recommend you plan on taking the MCAT early 2014, and applying NEXT cycle. This will give you more time to get the most out of your prep, and allow you to apply really early, which will help you substantially. Good luck!