2024 USNWR Medical School Rankings

[ItAintEasyBeingCheesy]

Pure speculation. MCAT likely correlates with a lot of things ---- and is uncorrelated or mildly correlated with others. If you don't have the data, don't speculate!

Using you’re own logic, it’d be unreasonable for you to assume MCAT scores don’t correlate with scientific discovery if you don’t have the data to back that up.

When data doesn’t exist, we can’t make any scientific conclusions either way. So at that point the only thing we can do is speculate logically what is most likely. I’ve laid out the logic for my speculation. It seems your speculation is based on the fact there might be confounding variables at play. So my next question would be, what confounding variables do you believe might be responsible for the illusion that high MCAT correlates with scientific discovery?

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[deleted1156722]

Here is my summary of Winners & Losers, based on the wide-ranging discussion in this thread. I have immensely enjoyed reading all the posts, and kudos to the SDN mods/admins for keeping this going!

Winners:
1) Campbell's Law: This is the observation that once a metric has been identified as a primary indicator for success, its ability to accurately measure success tends to be compromised.
2) Start-up ventures and Ranking entrepreneurs: Ultimately, all of us as humans have the insatiable urge for ranking and prestige and we won’t rest till we find the next best system.
3) LCME/ AAMC: Schools will now come to depend on the LCME / AAMC to improve their DEI metrics, and their mission, especially with overturning of the Affirmative Action by SCOTUS soon.
4) MSAR- after all, don’t we need a good sub to USNWR!


Losers:
1) MCAT/ GPA: Now schools have a free rein to use these objective scores in the manner they see fit for their schools. So even less objectivity and even more subjectivity in their secretive “holistic admissions”.
2) NYU Grossman: Crash drop from #2 -> #13 in a year, especially when it was supposed to be a possible #1 this year with its free-tuition.
3) High priced Med school educational consulting companies - for feeding into the anxiety of nervous premeds and med schools that depend on them to strategize.
4) USNWR- obviously!

 

[ItAintEasyBeingCheesy]

Here is my summary of Winners & Losers, based on the wide-ranging discussion in this thread. I have immensely enjoyed reading all the posts, and kudos to the SDN mods/admins for keeping this going!

Winners:
1) Campbell's Law: This is the observation that once a metric has been identified as a primary indicator for success, its ability to accurately measure success tends to be compromised.
2) Start-up ventures and Ranking entrepreneurs: Ultimately, all of us as humans have the insatiable urge for ranking and prestige and we won’t rest till we find the next best system.
3) LCME/ AAMC: Schools will now come to depend on the LCME / AAMC to improve their DEI metrics, and their mission, especially with overturning of the Affirmative Action by SCOTUS soon.
4) MSAR- after all, don’t we need a good sub to USNWR!


Losers:
1) MCAT/ GPA: Now schools have a free rein to use these objective scores in the manner they see fit for their schools. So even less objectivity and even more subjectivity in their secretive “holistic admissions”.
2) NYU Grossman: Crash drop from #2 -> #13 in a year, especially when it was supposed to be a possible #1 this year with its free-tuition.
3) High priced Med school educational consulting companies - for feeding into the anxiety of nervous premeds and med schools that depend on them to strategize.
4) USNWR- obviously!

Seems like NYU is like bitcoin. Won’t be long before they withdraw from USNWR too 😂

 

[imidazzle92]

Is the MSAR all that useful asides from choosing which schools to apply to based on GPA/MCAT and OOS/IS statistics? I used it many years ago and didn't find the mission statements or match lists all that useful in my decision-making.

The US News/PD rankings have their limitations, and I think micro-analyzing ranks (e.g., comparing schools ranked 12th vs 17th) is kinda pointless, but I think it helps give a general idea of the "tier" of schools. IIRC, there are some schools that have lower median MCAT/GPA on MSAR but are still considered high-tier. I guess you wouldn't know unless you used something like US News or frequently checked these forums.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Using you’re own logic, it’d be unreasonable for you to assume MCAT scores don’t correlate with scientific discovery if you don’t have the data to back that up.

When data doesn’t exist, we can’t make any scientific conclusions either way. So at that point the only thing we can do is speculate logically what is most likely. I’ve laid out the logic for my speculation. It seems your speculation is based on the fact there might be confounding variables at play. So my next question would be, what confounding variables do you believe might be responsible for the illusion that high MCAT correlates with scientific discovery?

Dude, I don't know whether MCAT correlates with scientific discovery later in life or not. I didn't take a side. It's pure speculation either way and a waste of time without data.

 

[ItAintEasyBeingCheesy]

Is the MSAR all that useful asides from choosing which schools to apply to based on GPA/MCAT and OOS/IS statistics? I used it many years ago and didn't find the mission statements or match lists all that useful in my decision-making.

The US News/PD rankings have their limitations, and I think micro-analyzing ranks (e.g., comparing schools ranked 12th vs 17th) is kinda pointless, but I think it helps give a general idea of the "tier" of schools. IIRC, there are some schools that have lower median MCAT/GPA on MSAR but are still considered high-tier. I guess you wouldn't know unless you used something like US News or frequently checked these forums.

Agree that comparing 12th to 17th is meaningless but I do think there is a noticeable difference in opportunity between the T5 and T20, especially if one is interested in research, biotech or healthcare innovation.

 

[ItAintEasyBeingCheesy]

Dude, I don't know whether MCAT correlates with scientific discovery later in life or not. I didn't take a side. It's pure speculation either way and a waste of time without data.

All scientific studies start with speculation (aka. a hypothesis). Once you have a hypothesis set, you then carry out a study to collect the data to confirm or reject your hypothesis. Speculation (hypothesis-generation) is an important part of the scientific process and is what leads to the execution of studies to collect data necessary to confirm one’s hypothesis. So I’d argue this speculation isn’t actually a waste of time. It’s actually quite critical if we intend to approach this problem scientifically (with the ideal next step being the collection of data to verify or disapprove what we think is actually going on).

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Is the MSAR all that useful asides from choosing which schools to apply to based on GPA/MCAT and OOS/IS statistics? I used it many years ago and didn't find the mission statements or match lists all that useful in my decision-making.

The US News/PD rankings have their limitations, and I think micro-analyzing ranks (e.g., comparing schools ranked 12th vs 17th) is kinda pointless, but I think it helps give a general idea of the "tier" of schools. IIRC, there are some schools that have lower median MCAT/GPA on MSAR but are still considered high-tier. I guess you wouldn't know unless you used something like US News or frequently checked these forums.

I thought the class demographic data (age and ethnicity) was helpful too.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

All scientific studies start with speculation (aka. a hypothesis). Once you have a hypothesis set, you then carry out a study to collect the data to confirm or reject your hypothesis. Speculation (hypothesis-generation) is an important part of the scientific process and is what leads to the execution of studies to collect data necessary to confirm one’s hypothesis. So I’d argue this speculation isn’t actually a waste of time. It’s actually quite critical if we intend to approach this problem scientifically (with the ideal next step being the collection of data to verify or disapprove what we think is actually going on).

Agree. And I accept your hypothesis. A hypothesis with no follow-up analysis or study reverts back to speculation.

 

[ItAintEasyBeingCheesy]

Agree. And I accept your hypothesis. A hypothesis with no follow-up analysis or study reverts back to speculation.

In order to do a study, one must start with a hypothesis (speculation). This is the nature of hypothesis-driven research. It seems like you have the scientific method flipped backwards. You don’t start with a study/data and then work backwards to a hypothesis. You start with a hypothesis and then proceed from there to conduct a study to collect data so you can make a conclusion about the validity of your hypothesis. Just curious (and I don’t mean any disrespect), but were you taught the scientific method in high school?

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

In order to do a study, one must start with a hypothesis (speculation). This is the nature of hypothesis-driven research. It seems like you have the scientific method flipped backwards. You don’t start with a study/data and then work backwards to a hypothesis. You start with a hypothesis and then proceed from there to conduct a study to collect data so you can make a conclusion about the validity of your hypothesis. Just curious (and I don’t mean any disrespect), but were you taught the scientific method in high school?

In the words of Bobby Knight --- "I've forgotten more about this game than you're ever going to know"

 

[When the Moon Forgot]

Let's be nice and civil to one another folks and stay on topic here.

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

In order to do a study, one must start with a hypothesis (speculation). This is the nature of hypothesis-driven research. It seems like you have the scientific method flipped backwards. You don’t start with a study/data and then work backwards to a hypothesis. You start with a hypothesis and then proceed from there to conduct a study to collect data so you can make a conclusion about the validity of your hypothesis. Just curious (and I don’t mean any disrespect), but were you taught the scientific method in high school?

Here we go, you will fun to work with

 

[Goro]

The only people who really care about US Snooze and Worst Report are status-obsessed pre-meds (and/or thier parents') and medical school Deans.

 

[chilly_md]

It appears this thread has been derailed again and does not serve its original purpose.

Closing.