2020 NRMP rad onc goal - 100% of slots need to go unfilled, into the SOAP

[medgator]

Seems like a reasonable thing to consider IMO as, honestly, the CMS direct supervision rule change seem to be the final nail in the coffin.

The job market had been getting worse for years, both geographically and in terms of offers and ability to lateral into another job at a similar seniority/compensation level.

Rad Onc labor oversupply hurts everyone in the field, except those entrenched in academics who created and benefit from this problem. CMS, through no fault of their own, have firmly cemented this specialty to be in oversupply after an announcement a week ago regarding hospital-based RO supervision rules.

Pgy-5s are losing offers before they sign contracts, existing practitioners are getting offers to go part-time at lower salaries given the change to back to "general supervision". In some cases, "extra" docs are getting their "pink slips." I imagine many partnership track docs will be cut loose soon if they were partnering in with large, hospital-based RO professional groups.

Residents without jobs are going into unaccredited fellowships trying to get any advantage to get into to a certain place for a job, or wait out the job market, only to get screwed when it comes time for their first paycheck.

Tell me why not?

To anyone applying Radiation Oncology this year through the nrmp, understand that senior residents are actively losing offers, and existing practitioners are at risk of getting let go/reduced compensation with the cessation of the "direct supervision" requirement for hospital-based RO. Trying to get a freestanding PP job was a tough shot even before all this ever happened. You are simply meat being fed into an academic machine that will use your labor for 4 years and spit you out with any concern regarding your job prospects or employability after residency

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[thecarbonionangle]

See you guys in breadline. Watch your bread though because i may be so hungry that i may eat your bread so don’t put it so close to my snout. Better stock up on food because many people will be out of a job.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

See you guys in breadline. Watch your bread though because i may be so hungry that i may eat your bread so don’t put it so close to my snout. Better stock up on food because many people will be out of a job.

Not true, there’s always a new residency or fellowship position available... Just be careful as some of these don’t pay!

Now a “real” job will be hard to find but we didn’t go into medicine to get paid or live in a desirable area!

 

[Krukenberg]

See you guys in breadline. Watch your bread though because i may be so hungry that i may eat your bread so don’t put it so close to my snout. Better stock up on food because many people will be out of a job.

While I agree Residency expansion and the supervision rule change threaten the job market more, I hope any Med student reading this forum realizes carbonionangle posts are complete and utter hyperbole.

 

[medgator]

While I agree Residency expansion and the supervision rule change threaten the job market more, I hope any Med student reading this forum realizes carbonionangle posts are complete and utter hyperbole.

Really? Do you think those pgy5s getting their offers and interviews pulled is "hyperbole" also?

 

[xrthopeful]

Really? Do you think those pgy5s getting their offers and interviews pulled is "hyperbole" also?

there's a difference between that and 'breadline' talk and fighting over food.

I get it, that's thecarbonionangle's shtick. Krukenburg is accurate, though I would hope any med students reading the forums know the difference between shtick and realistic posts anyways.

 

[RickyScott]

there's a difference between that and 'breadline' talk and fighting over food.

I get it, that's thecarbonionangle's shtick. Krukenburg is accurate, though I would hope any med students reading the forums know the difference between shtick and realistic posts anyways.

Does it matter? If offers are being pulled, should that not be enough to turn 99.9% medstudents off. Shi# vs shi#ier. Any decent medstudent would opt for another field. Could they live with themselves if they go into radonc and the future is same or (Likely)worse than the present? Who is going to take the risk?

 

[xrthopeful]

Does it matter? If offers are being pulled, should that not be enough to turn 99.9% medstudents off. Shi# vs shi#ier. Any decent medstudent would opt for another field. Could they live with themselves if they go into radonc and the future is same or (Likely)worse than the present? Who is going to take the risk?

I didn't disagree with any of that.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

While I agree Residency expansion and the supervision rule change threaten the job market more, I hope any Med student reading this forum realizes carbonionangle posts are complete and utter hyperbole.

Thanks for the mansplaning of my posts. Easy to see what side poster is on.

see him at breadline too!

 

[deleted1002574]

Really? Do you think those pgy5s getting their offers and interviews pulled is "hyperbole" also?

I feel for them, and I want to hear their voices. But, I don't think until I see non-anonymous people actually bring this to the forefront (could be after interview season, I don't really care) or data showing this phenomenon exists, I do have a hard time 100% believing it and taking it as fact. That by no means is stating I think it didn't happen. Just means there is not certainty.

 

[medgator]

I feel for them, and I want to hear their voices. But, I don't think until I see non-anonymous people actually bring this to the forefront (could be after interview season, I don't really care) or data showing this phenomenon exists, I do have a hard time 100% believing it and taking it as fact. That by no means is stating I think it didn't happen. Just means there is not certainty.

I also hope you'll understand why said individuals might wish to remain anonymous for now....

 

[deleted941485]

I also hope you'll understand why said individuals might wish to remain anonymous for now....

We just want to know their identities so that we can shame err “re-educate” them

 

[deleted1002574]

That's fine to suggest that I want to out people. I'm a champion of incoming/outgoing residents and our field, in the same way you are. A lot of these stories are coming out, and I *in general* believe them. Problem is, a lot of people will deny they exist or be skeptical, at the least. This approach is fine, too.

 

[Krukenberg]

That's fine to suggest that I want to out people. I'm a champion of incoming/outgoing residents and our field, in the same way you are. A lot of these stories are coming out, and I *in general* believe them. Problem is, a lot of people will deny they exist or be skeptical, at the least. This approach is fine, too.

I would’ve been inclined to believe the stories being posted here except current applicants are highly suspicious that SDN trolls are going on their spreadsheet and posing as applicants. Now I just don’t know how far they would go to achieve 0% match rate.

 

[deleted774703]

This is why residents don't feel safe being anonymous. They insinuate if we don't get our dream job to just move on and suck it up and be happy to be a RO #radoncrocks

 

[Krukenberg]

This is why residents don't feel safe being anonymous. They insinuate if we don't get our dream job to just move on and suck it up and be happy to be a RO #radoncrocks

I don’t understand why some people here feel they are entitled to their dream job? The vast majority of white collar professionals would not say they have their dream job, and I don’t get why we should feel we deserve it.

i have geographic preferences but am not dependent on big cities. What if my dream job is to be a rad onc with a fair employer (academic or pp) and a six figure salary? no one has made a case for why that’s unachievable. I don’t care about making 500k+ and have no delusions that the world owes it to me for going to Med school and picking rad onc.

 

[deleted774703]

I don’t understand why some people here feel they are entitled to their dream job? The vast majority of white collar professionals would not say they have their dream job, and I don’t get why we should feel we deserve it.

i have geographic preferences but am not dependent on big cities. What if my dream job is to be a rad onc with a fair employer (academic or pp) and a six figure salary? no one has made a case for why that’s unachievable. I don’t care about making 500k+ and have no delusions that the world owes it to me for going to Med school and picking rad onc.

If you're happy then you have nothing to worry about out.

For the rest of us who want more, let us try and chase our dream

 

[deleted774703]

This is why residents don't feel safe being anonymous. They insinuate if we don't get our dream job to just move on and suck it up and be happy to be a RO #radoncrocks

More from this guy

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

More from this guy

Drew has intense opinions.

On a positive note, his lung SBRT stuff is top notch.

 

[RickyScott]

Drew has intense opinions.

On a positive note, his lung SBRT stuff is top notch.

There will always be “flat earhers.”

 

[OTN]

He says "misinformation" but doesn't say what that misinformation is. He also doesn't say what the "magical ideas" are or even why those ideas are bad. The only actual information in hist tweet says "this field has always sucked" when I know for a fact it has not.

When I graduated from residency 10 years ago, I had three job offers I considered ideal to close-to-ideal. That scenario would not happen today, due to expansion of academic satellite institutions and expansion of residency programs.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Professor Moghanaki is also the beneficiary of the recent changes as he sits at the top of the pyramid. Admittedly he has worked hard to attain that status but he seems oblivious to present day conditions in the trenches.

 

[Haybrant]

Drew is wrong. Dead wrong. His coresidents all found jobs they wanted as did many of his colleagues with multiple (multiple!) job offers, he easily transitioned into another role and did many of his cohort. He’s showing his ignorance, he does not understand what it’s like now trying to find a job for new grads and early career. He wants people to suck it up, it’s an absolute affront to the kids he mentored at VCU

 

[PleaseRemainCalm]

This is why residents don't feel safe being anonymous. They insinuate if we don't get our dream job to just move on and suck it up and be happy to be a RO #radoncrocks

Between San Diego and Portland there are only 2 academic departments. He is saying getting rejected from 2 jobs is comparable to the concerns of current applicants!

It is hard for me to take at face value the post of someone who literally has zero track record. Even if she is a real person it is very possible that she has for example only applied to jobs located downtown in, say, 2 cities. I am not asking her to clarify, of course she has to prioritize her anonymity, but if her options really are unemployment or being underpaid of course she has to choose to be underpaid. Even with all those caveats, we shouldn't be dismissive of the general sentiment of people's concerns and it still shocks me that someone would put what I am sorry to say is a much more minor setback of, again, BEING REJECTED BY TWO PLACES on par with what's being discussed here.

 

[Haybrant]

Between San Diego and Portland there are only 2 academic departments. He is saying getting rejected from 2 jobs is comparable to the concerns of current applicants!

It is hard for me to take at face value the post of someone who literally has zero track record. Even if she is a real person it is very possible that she has for example only applied to jobs located downtown in, say, 2 cities. I am not asking her to clarify, of course she has to prioritize her anonymity, but if her options really are unemployment or being underpaid of course she has to choose to be underpaid. Even with all those caveats, we shouldn't be dismissive of the general sentiment of people's concerns and it still shocks me that someone would put what I am sorry to say is a much more minor setback of, again, BEING REJECTED BY TWO PLACES on par with what's being discussed here.

Yep Drew is totally off base, it’s tone deaf to compare his situation with current day struggles of job hunt. Just listen to people Drew and try to understand what they are saying, they’re not idiots and you some savant same w Jagsi who is just as tone deaf and leaving her women out to dry despite capitalizing on the women’s power narrative for years. TBH Drew is incredibly open minded person but this really highlights the gulf when academics try to take their situation from 10 years ago and apply it today.