I agree with the overall message of your post, but curious how you know this? If anything, since people seem to be going on more and more interviews, I would think that programs are actually going lower on their rank lists to fill? But as far as I know, this information is never made publicly available, and I would be surprised if programs even make it privately available.
2015 Match Stats
- Thread starter Newt23
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I agree with the overall message of your post, but curious how you know this? If anything, since people seem to be going on more and more interviews, I would think that programs are actually going lower on their rank lists to fill? But as far as I know, this information is never made publicly available, and I would be surprised if programs even make it privately available.
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Nah, it says that 89% of spots were filled by US seniors, 7% were filled by US grads and 4% were filled by IMGs. Adds up to 100%. The same question about what the SF Match numbers actually mean was debated and answered last year on the match stats thread (or maybe it was the year before).
Sorry to probably keep bringing up the same thing I'm sure is discussed every year, but the analyzer in me can't help it......
I can't help but notice that the number of CAS participants (753) is much higher than the number of rank lists submitted (644). Now, presumably, there were a few folks who participated in CAS who decided ultimately not to continue their pursuit of ophthalmology and didn't go on interviews even if they were offered some. Lets say for argument's sake however, that the reason there are 109 less people in the "CAS participants" than the "# of rank lists," is that all 109 people were really banking on ophthalmology, but didn't get a single interview, and therefore could not submit a rank list. If this were the case, then the TRUE match rate (and by extension competitiveness), would be 464/753 or 61%.
Anyway, I'm definitely over-analyzing this.... but if we only use the number of people who submitted rank lists (and therefore got interviews) in the match % calculation, then we factor out those people who got ZERO interviews. When the NRMP reports results match results, they simply give a number who matched and a number who didn't. I think the 464/753 (61%) number would be closer to what is reported on the NRMP website for other specialties. Just food for thought.
I can't help but notice that the number of CAS participants (753) is much higher than the number of rank lists submitted (644). Now, presumably, there were a few folks who participated in CAS who decided ultimately not to continue their pursuit of ophthalmology and didn't go on interviews even if they were offered some. Lets say for argument's sake however, that the reason there are 109 less people in the "CAS participants" than the "# of rank lists," is that all 109 people were really banking on ophthalmology, but didn't get a single interview, and therefore could not submit a rank list. If this were the case, then the TRUE match rate (and by extension competitiveness), would be 464/753 or 61%.
Anyway, I'm definitely over-analyzing this.... but if we only use the number of people who submitted rank lists (and therefore got interviews) in the match % calculation, then we factor out those people who got ZERO interviews. When the NRMP reports results match results, they simply give a number who matched and a number who didn't. I think the 464/753 (61%) number would be closer to what is reported on the NRMP website for other specialties. Just food for thought.
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Like I said, I realize I made a generalization and this isn't applicable to every program, I meant to make a generalization to illustrate how competitive it has become and what being ranked to match means at many programs - of course, not all programs. You are right that top applicants rank amazing schools lower for various reasons, but amazing schools, or rather any school, also wants the applicant who really wants to be there and has shown that beyond having the scores to be a top applicant, so this top applicant may not always be ranked highest on the schools list, etc - that's my point. "Top applicant" is a subjective point, there is no objective way to measure this, programs want the right fit to their program, someone who really wants to be there, etc, and that goes beyond having top scores or grades. Again, I am making a generalization, and I admitted that the first time around, of course I never saw anyones list, but people talk.
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http://www.aao.org/careers/envision/residency101.cfm
The number quoted on this page suggests more than 85% of participating US seniors matched. I hope that they did not also confuse this with % of spots, but it could be accurate. All that table from the SF Match needs to provide is # of US seniors that applied...not sure why it isn't available.
The number quoted on this page suggests more than 85% of participating US seniors matched. I hope that they did not also confuse this with % of spots, but it could be accurate. All that table from the SF Match needs to provide is # of US seniors that applied...not sure why it isn't available.
I actually have, they sent me to the link in the post before yours. However, I have recently contacted them again to see if the # US Senior applicants is available somewhere since we only have the # US Seniors matched.
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This doesn't seem that important. Is a 2-10% change in the number of applicants matching going to deter you from applying?
2-10%, I don't know. 15%, much more likely, since some of the speculation on here ranges around there. The information isn't available, so the effect it has cannot be assessed. For example, ENT was ridiculously competitive last year, this year, I think it has significantly less applicants. I know people who didn't even bother applying and just went gen surg because of the numbers. If the match rate was 70% and I loved ophtho I would still apply, but I would rather be educated on the topic than go into it blind.
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You yourself just pointed out that year to year things change. The year I applied 12 people from my med school applied, the following year 2 people. And every few years it seems to follow that trend, but not quite in a predictable pattern. You also mentioned that if you wanted it you would go for it. I'm just saying... I don't really feel this will affect you much... If your scores are low, they are low, and that makes chances worse in most competitive specialty. Analyzing percentages won't change that, but it will definitely make you nuts. Educating oneself with the facts is good, but preparing for the minutia of the facts can be discouraging. So, good luck, I hope you get your answer from SF match.
The following is the same data for some of the other competitive surgical subspecialties, plus derm. I calculated these from the 2014 charting outcomes PDF (to the nearest %). Feel free to check my math.
Derm - US senior match rate 76%, all applicants 68%
ENT - US senior match rate 75%, all applicants 69%
Plastics - US senior match rate 71%, all applicants 66%
Neurosurg - US senior match rate 79%, all applicants 64%
Ortho - US senior match rate 77%, all applicants 70%
The absolute % gap between all applicants and US seniors is anywhere from 5-15%
So it is certainly feasible that the overall match rate for ophtho is 72% and the US senior rate >85%, however most specialties seem to have a much lower gap than this (except neurosurg).
BTW, I'm on elective right now, can you tell?
Derm - US senior match rate 76%, all applicants 68%
ENT - US senior match rate 75%, all applicants 69%
Plastics - US senior match rate 71%, all applicants 66%
Neurosurg - US senior match rate 79%, all applicants 64%
Ortho - US senior match rate 77%, all applicants 70%
The absolute % gap between all applicants and US seniors is anywhere from 5-15%
So it is certainly feasible that the overall match rate for ophtho is 72% and the US senior rate >85%, however most specialties seem to have a much lower gap than this (except neurosurg).
BTW, I'm on elective right now, can you tell?
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First time poster- throughout premed and med school I tried to stay away from sdn because I found it depressing- haha!!
--Board Scores: 234, did not take Step2 until after match, also got 234 after limited study time
--AOA and class rank: if known- no, top 25%
--Reputation of medical school: (top 10, top 25, etc) ok state school
--Research: (none, some ophtho with no publications, ophtho publications) publication and poster non-ophtho
--Honors in clerkships: (especially surgery and medicine) only honors in family, HP in all except pass OBG and surgery. My school gives very few HP and H.
--# and where you did away rotations: 1. 2 wk at a top program- fun, did not expect interview there and did not get one, 2. 4 wk at second tier program- liked it, got an interview
--# of programs you applied to:75
--Where invited for interviews (both offers and the ones you actually attended):10- attended all 10. Summa, Geisinger, Upstate, UofR, Tufts, Brown, Temple, Nassau, Bronx-Leb, Loyola.
--Where matched: #4
--Anything that helped your app: I have unique volunteer and research experience, wrote kickass personal statement, had good LORs from people who knew me well and genuinely liked me (ophtho, med/peds, ENT). While my step 1 is below average- I did not feel that it was much of a problem since my goal was to match and I did not care about getting a top program. I think I tried to identify my strengths and work them to my best advantage.
Also coming from a med school with a small ophtho program I found the best source of information about applying came nit from SDN but from last year's students that matched in ophtho from my school. They had roughly similar applications and looked at many of the same programs.
General comment about programs- I was surprised to like almost all the programs I visited- although many are not considered top programs- each had unique strengths and weaknesses.
--Board Scores: 234, did not take Step2 until after match, also got 234 after limited study time
--AOA and class rank: if known- no, top 25%
--Reputation of medical school: (top 10, top 25, etc) ok state school
--Research: (none, some ophtho with no publications, ophtho publications) publication and poster non-ophtho
--Honors in clerkships: (especially surgery and medicine) only honors in family, HP in all except pass OBG and surgery. My school gives very few HP and H.
--# and where you did away rotations: 1. 2 wk at a top program- fun, did not expect interview there and did not get one, 2. 4 wk at second tier program- liked it, got an interview
--# of programs you applied to:75
--Where invited for interviews (both offers and the ones you actually attended):10- attended all 10. Summa, Geisinger, Upstate, UofR, Tufts, Brown, Temple, Nassau, Bronx-Leb, Loyola.
--Where matched: #4
--Anything that helped your app: I have unique volunteer and research experience, wrote kickass personal statement, had good LORs from people who knew me well and genuinely liked me (ophtho, med/peds, ENT). While my step 1 is below average- I did not feel that it was much of a problem since my goal was to match and I did not care about getting a top program. I think I tried to identify my strengths and work them to my best advantage.
Also coming from a med school with a small ophtho program I found the best source of information about applying came nit from SDN but from last year's students that matched in ophtho from my school. They had roughly similar applications and looked at many of the same programs.
General comment about programs- I was surprised to like almost all the programs I visited- although many are not considered top programs- each had unique strengths and weaknesses.
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Another plea for updates to individual program threads, many of them haven't been updated in 5 years and they are immensely appreciated. Thank you all for sharing!
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-Board Scores: Step 1-250, Step 2-Not taken during application cycle
--AOA and class rank: Not AOA, Top 25%
--Reputation of medical school: Midwest state school with well-known ophtho department.
--Research: 1 ARVO abstract (submitted at the end of application cycle), 1 3rd author ophtho publication, 1 2nd author ortho publication
--Honors in clerkships: All except OB/GYN. Not sure about other schools, but at least at ours, honoring (outstanding) doesn’t mean what it used to. For instance, 60% of our class received an outstanding in internal medicine. Grateful that I did relatively well during third year, but I’d guess program directors suspect the subjective nature of these grades.
--# and where you did away rotations: 1 (received an interview)
--# of programs you applied to: 88
--Where invited for interviews (both offers and the ones you actually attended):
Attended: Medical College of Georgia, Maryland, Case Western, Cleveland Clinic, UIC (IEEI), LSU, UTHSCSA (UT-San Antonio), Cincinnati, Michigan, Minnesota, University of Washington, Loyola, University of Chicago, CPMC, Arizona (both).
Declined: UMKC, SUNY-upstate
--Where matched: 1/16, extremely happy and thankful!
--Anything that helped your app:
I know it’s been said before, but at the end of the day, I think the thing that helped me the most was being myself, trying to stay relaxed, and friendly to everyone I met. The other candidates and residents I met along the way made this really easy, everyone has a story to tell and you can always learn a thing or two from somebody.
My home institution:
I’d be lying if I said my home institution didn’t play a big part in at least getting me some interviews. I got 2 of my letters from well-known faculty here, which were mentioned by name at I’d say ~50% of programs. I’m not a big name dropping fan, and really wished they mentioned my internal medicine letter writer (who I’d worked with longer and knew better). But I realized midway through my ophtho rotation that this was the name of the game. It’s a small field, and if you have well known people at your institution, it can go far in vetting you to a program provided you work hard and get a good letter from him/her.
Phone calls:
I have two family friends who are currently private practice ophthalmologists, but at one point were faculty at academic institutions. They offered to make phone calls on my behalf, which I was grateful for. One of them called 3 institutions, none of which gave me an interview. The other called 1, which later gave me an interview. Take that as you will, I was appreciative of any help I could get.
--Comments on specific programs:
I’ll try and update the program specific threads when I get a chance.
Some advice I can give is please find the program that is the right fit for your strengths and preferences (family, location, personality etc.). Sure there are programs that have a strong reputation, great fellowship matches, or outstanding clinical training, but if you can’t see yourself being happy there, don’t go there! I interviewed at a few “upper-tier” and some not so well known programs. Before each interview, I tried to not think of the “name” of a place and just wanted to know is this the right environment for me to train for 3 years, and accomplish what I want to? Also, I tried to talk to as many of the first year residents as possible to see if my personality meshed with theirs, since they’ll be the ones teaching me in a few years. In the beginning, I thought I’d want seniors that were very laid back with a sense of humor about everything. But I found that might not be the best way to go, since I didn’t want to be the only serious one in the room trying to learn. Think about what qualities you admire in a teacher and see which of these are represented best in the residents and faculty.
Good luck to everyone applying next cycle!
--AOA and class rank: Not AOA, Top 25%
--Reputation of medical school: Midwest state school with well-known ophtho department.
--Research: 1 ARVO abstract (submitted at the end of application cycle), 1 3rd author ophtho publication, 1 2nd author ortho publication
--Honors in clerkships: All except OB/GYN. Not sure about other schools, but at least at ours, honoring (outstanding) doesn’t mean what it used to. For instance, 60% of our class received an outstanding in internal medicine. Grateful that I did relatively well during third year, but I’d guess program directors suspect the subjective nature of these grades.
--# and where you did away rotations: 1 (received an interview)
--# of programs you applied to: 88
--Where invited for interviews (both offers and the ones you actually attended):
Attended: Medical College of Georgia, Maryland, Case Western, Cleveland Clinic, UIC (IEEI), LSU, UTHSCSA (UT-San Antonio), Cincinnati, Michigan, Minnesota, University of Washington, Loyola, University of Chicago, CPMC, Arizona (both).
Declined: UMKC, SUNY-upstate
--Where matched: 1/16, extremely happy and thankful!
--Anything that helped your app:
I know it’s been said before, but at the end of the day, I think the thing that helped me the most was being myself, trying to stay relaxed, and friendly to everyone I met. The other candidates and residents I met along the way made this really easy, everyone has a story to tell and you can always learn a thing or two from somebody.
My home institution:
I’d be lying if I said my home institution didn’t play a big part in at least getting me some interviews. I got 2 of my letters from well-known faculty here, which were mentioned by name at I’d say ~50% of programs. I’m not a big name dropping fan, and really wished they mentioned my internal medicine letter writer (who I’d worked with longer and knew better). But I realized midway through my ophtho rotation that this was the name of the game. It’s a small field, and if you have well known people at your institution, it can go far in vetting you to a program provided you work hard and get a good letter from him/her.
Phone calls:
I have two family friends who are currently private practice ophthalmologists, but at one point were faculty at academic institutions. They offered to make phone calls on my behalf, which I was grateful for. One of them called 3 institutions, none of which gave me an interview. The other called 1, which later gave me an interview. Take that as you will, I was appreciative of any help I could get.
--Comments on specific programs:
I’ll try and update the program specific threads when I get a chance.
Some advice I can give is please find the program that is the right fit for your strengths and preferences (family, location, personality etc.). Sure there are programs that have a strong reputation, great fellowship matches, or outstanding clinical training, but if you can’t see yourself being happy there, don’t go there! I interviewed at a few “upper-tier” and some not so well known programs. Before each interview, I tried to not think of the “name” of a place and just wanted to know is this the right environment for me to train for 3 years, and accomplish what I want to? Also, I tried to talk to as many of the first year residents as possible to see if my personality meshed with theirs, since they’ll be the ones teaching me in a few years. In the beginning, I thought I’d want seniors that were very laid back with a sense of humor about everything. But I found that might not be the best way to go, since I didn’t want to be the only serious one in the room trying to learn. Think about what qualities you admire in a teacher and see which of these are represented best in the residents and faculty.
Good luck to everyone applying next cycle!
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I'm a DO student who would like to pursue an Ophthalmology residence. I don't mind matching in either AOA or ACGME residency as long as I get a spot. My COMLEX is 629 and USMLE STEP 1 is 232. Any ideas whether I meet the average competitive Ophthalmology scores? I don't have any pubs.