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What's everyone's thoughts on Schwab vs. Marianjoy?
2014-2015 Rank Ordler List Thread
- Thread starter coffeetime75
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Did anyone who interview at Schwab or RIC get post interview phone calls from residents or emails?
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I guess I should have been more clear: the Great Lakes folk aren't malicious or out to take advantage of you, they're mostly too naive and simple for that. But the LA ones know very well that they're using you.
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No calls or emails from RIC for me. Don't know anyone (regularly keep in touch with 8 applicants I met on trail) who did.
Just trying to warn everyone about NYMC, It's everything I said and worse. I can't go into details because there is litigation going on as they are trying to prevent residents who nearly completed the program from graduating. Just warn everyone to stay away - unless they want litigation on their hands in 3 yrs!
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Updated list
1. RIC
2. UW
3. Utah
4. Colorado
5. Spaulding
6. UPMC
7. OSU
8. Mayo
9. C/C
10.UVA
11. UNC
Not ranking: Kessler, Stanford
1. RIC
2. UW
3. Utah
4. Colorado
5. Spaulding
6. UPMC
7. OSU
8. Mayo
9. C/C
10.UVA
11. UNC
Not ranking: Kessler, Stanford
Also went through this process recently and I know this is a stressful time. Looks like everyone has really solid rank lists. Good luck!
One thing I'll chime in is pick the place where you'll be the most happy. Will you be happy at work and outside of work? Did you get a good vibe from the program when you went there? Are you wanting to spend a lot of time on research? Do you want to do inpatient or outpatient? This really is different for everyone. There are people who think differently, but I always tell others not to just chase after the big names and try to find the best fit for you. I had some dilemma myself as well, but at the end, I ranked the "best fit, where I (and my SO) will be happy" programs at the top and I've been very glad to have matched at one of those programs. Y0u might be happy at first to match at one of the big names, but my thought is that the excitement will quickly wear off if it's not the best fit for you. 3-4 years of your life is a long time.
Again, wish you the best of luck with the match! PM&R is a specialty where you'll be hard-pressed to find a program that provides inadequate training.
One thing I'll chime in is pick the place where you'll be the most happy. Will you be happy at work and outside of work? Did you get a good vibe from the program when you went there? Are you wanting to spend a lot of time on research? Do you want to do inpatient or outpatient? This really is different for everyone. There are people who think differently, but I always tell others not to just chase after the big names and try to find the best fit for you. I had some dilemma myself as well, but at the end, I ranked the "best fit, where I (and my SO) will be happy" programs at the top and I've been very glad to have matched at one of those programs. Y0u might be happy at first to match at one of the big names, but my thought is that the excitement will quickly wear off if it's not the best fit for you. 3-4 years of your life is a long time.
Again, wish you the best of luck with the match! PM&R is a specialty where you'll be hard-pressed to find a program that provides inadequate training.
Is C/C referring to Columbia/Cornell? If so, would you mind explaining why you decided to rank it so low? I've heard only good things about that program. Thanks.
Was trying to hold off on posting, but I figure most programs have their minds completely made up at this point and I'm trying to stay pretty anonymous. I'm 90% sure this will be my final match list. Looks like RIC is going to be very competitive this year! If you are considering any/all of these programs and wanna chat, message me. I feel like each program on my final list offers something unique and ultimately would be excited to match at any of these programs.
About me: US MD grad step 1 score slightly below national average. Applied to 25 programs and ultimately am ranking 9-10. Got rejections from some lower tier programs and interviews at upper tier programs so apply broadly. As many have stated before, PMR seems to care less about numbers and care more about relevant research experience or life experience.
Factors that were important for me were
1. quality of training - looking for excellent breadth in all areas of pmr (really like SCI, sports, pain)
2. location (I prefer major metropolitan cities where my SO can find work easily - ideally NYC or Chicago)
3. fit / feel of PD and residents
My rank list:
1. RIC - Love the reputation. Love the way they are integrating clinical rehab and research on the same floor in new facility. Love that they are strong in all areas of PM&R. Love Chicago. Got good feeling from program director. The chief residents and most residents I met there were personable and intelligent. It was clear they are a top program. Most rotations on one campus.
Cons - Didn't like the intensity of the program. Didn't like Chicago in Winter.
2. New York Presbyterian - Awesome PD. Very nice facilities. Would love to be in NYC. Outstanding sports/spine experience. If your ultimate goal is to be an outpatient physiatrist, you would receive outstanding training here. SO has connections in NYC (as do I). Residents were very put together, professional, and most importantly nice. Get great fellowships.
Cons - Biggest con for me is lack of traumatic spinal cord injury exposure. That being said, they see atypical presentations of SCI at MSKCC which piques my intellectual curiosity. Two campuses kind of far from one another.
3. Miami - Like rehabdoc, I almost cancelled my interview here. Was very glad that I didn't. I really enjoyed my interview with the program director. My PMR mentor trained there and she is awesome. Model system in TBI and SCI. Residents get a ton of hands on training at the VA, including sports and pain procedures. New rehab hospital being built. Miami project for SCI has awesome research going on. Extremely diverse patient population of 5.5 million. Weather. Very impressed by most residents. Most rotations on Jackson campus so very little commuting. Brickell neighborhood great place to live for young professionals.
Cons - Less established reputation. Far from connections. Would be totally starting fresh here.
4. Pittsburgh - Wow. This place truly rivals RIC in my honest opinion. Boninger has a way with words, and he really makes a strong case for why you should rank UPMC first. Awesome breadth of experience in all areas of PM&R. Extremely impressed by the residents I met. Felt like I fit in with residents. Great lunch (it matters!)
Cons - felt the PD was a little disinterested in my interview but then came around toward the end of the interview. Felt residents were getting regional fellowships (with some exceptions i.e. RIC Sports). My SO did not like Pittsburgh at all.
5. Kessler - Outstanding reputation and it appears that they take academics and didactics very seriously. Residents get top fellowships. Liked most of the residents I met. Great breadth of reputation in both inpatient and outpatient rehab. Near NYC, would probably live in Hoboken / Jersey City. Great research happening here with some very dynamic people. (i.e. Dr. Oh-Park)
Cons - Commuting is awful. Felt like there was some turnover happening with PD and chair and wasn't quite sure which way the dept was headed.
Rest of my list is
6. NSLIJ - Pros: well rounded. Love the PD and Chair. Close to NYC. Connections to the area. $$$$$ Cons: Commute stinks. Didn't get too much of a feel for residents on my interview day aside from chief resident (who was very impressive).
7. Einstein - Pros: Really liked faculty. Supportive PD. Residents were amicable. NYC. Cons: SCI and TBI rotations at Mount Sinai. Seems like this program would be great if you are 100% sure you want to do outpatient.
8. Schwab - Pros: Chicago, good clinical experience with diverse population. Really liked PD. Very good inpatient training. Cons: Other faculty interview was awkward / confrontational. Some clinical sites are far from each other (i.e. Evanston -> Hyde Park)
9. Penn - Pros: Growing reputation. New fellowships being offered (i.e. sports). Fun bowling night and residents seemed laid back but smart. Rotations at HUP (where I assume excellent teaching happens). Rehab hospital in center city, walk to work. Cons: Don't love Philadelphia. Not a great inpatient reputation.
10. SUNY Downstate - Pros: NYC. Brooklyn. Cons: Didn't really feel like I fit in. Wasn't feeling interview day here at all.
About me: US MD grad step 1 score slightly below national average. Applied to 25 programs and ultimately am ranking 9-10. Got rejections from some lower tier programs and interviews at upper tier programs so apply broadly. As many have stated before, PMR seems to care less about numbers and care more about relevant research experience or life experience.
Factors that were important for me were
1. quality of training - looking for excellent breadth in all areas of pmr (really like SCI, sports, pain)
2. location (I prefer major metropolitan cities where my SO can find work easily - ideally NYC or Chicago)
3. fit / feel of PD and residents
My rank list:
1. RIC - Love the reputation. Love the way they are integrating clinical rehab and research on the same floor in new facility. Love that they are strong in all areas of PM&R. Love Chicago. Got good feeling from program director. The chief residents and most residents I met there were personable and intelligent. It was clear they are a top program. Most rotations on one campus.
Cons - Didn't like the intensity of the program. Didn't like Chicago in Winter.
2. New York Presbyterian - Awesome PD. Very nice facilities. Would love to be in NYC. Outstanding sports/spine experience. If your ultimate goal is to be an outpatient physiatrist, you would receive outstanding training here. SO has connections in NYC (as do I). Residents were very put together, professional, and most importantly nice. Get great fellowships.
Cons - Biggest con for me is lack of traumatic spinal cord injury exposure. That being said, they see atypical presentations of SCI at MSKCC which piques my intellectual curiosity. Two campuses kind of far from one another.
3. Miami - Like rehabdoc, I almost cancelled my interview here. Was very glad that I didn't. I really enjoyed my interview with the program director. My PMR mentor trained there and she is awesome. Model system in TBI and SCI. Residents get a ton of hands on training at the VA, including sports and pain procedures. New rehab hospital being built. Miami project for SCI has awesome research going on. Extremely diverse patient population of 5.5 million. Weather. Very impressed by most residents. Most rotations on Jackson campus so very little commuting. Brickell neighborhood great place to live for young professionals.
Cons - Less established reputation. Far from connections. Would be totally starting fresh here.
4. Pittsburgh - Wow. This place truly rivals RIC in my honest opinion. Boninger has a way with words, and he really makes a strong case for why you should rank UPMC first. Awesome breadth of experience in all areas of PM&R. Extremely impressed by the residents I met. Felt like I fit in with residents. Great lunch (it matters!)
Cons - felt the PD was a little disinterested in my interview but then came around toward the end of the interview. Felt residents were getting regional fellowships (with some exceptions i.e. RIC Sports). My SO did not like Pittsburgh at all.
5. Kessler - Outstanding reputation and it appears that they take academics and didactics very seriously. Residents get top fellowships. Liked most of the residents I met. Great breadth of reputation in both inpatient and outpatient rehab. Near NYC, would probably live in Hoboken / Jersey City. Great research happening here with some very dynamic people. (i.e. Dr. Oh-Park)
Cons - Commuting is awful. Felt like there was some turnover happening with PD and chair and wasn't quite sure which way the dept was headed.
Rest of my list is
6. NSLIJ - Pros: well rounded. Love the PD and Chair. Close to NYC. Connections to the area. $$$$$ Cons: Commute stinks. Didn't get too much of a feel for residents on my interview day aside from chief resident (who was very impressive).
7. Einstein - Pros: Really liked faculty. Supportive PD. Residents were amicable. NYC. Cons: SCI and TBI rotations at Mount Sinai. Seems like this program would be great if you are 100% sure you want to do outpatient.
8. Schwab - Pros: Chicago, good clinical experience with diverse population. Really liked PD. Very good inpatient training. Cons: Other faculty interview was awkward / confrontational. Some clinical sites are far from each other (i.e. Evanston -> Hyde Park)
9. Penn - Pros: Growing reputation. New fellowships being offered (i.e. sports). Fun bowling night and residents seemed laid back but smart. Rotations at HUP (where I assume excellent teaching happens). Rehab hospital in center city, walk to work. Cons: Don't love Philadelphia. Not a great inpatient reputation.
10. SUNY Downstate - Pros: NYC. Brooklyn. Cons: Didn't really feel like I fit in. Wasn't feeling interview day here at all.
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My previous post mentioned what went into my ranking... C/C ended up being mostly because my wife dislikes NYC and there aren't many job openings for her...
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A program I interviewed at does not have an Anatomy Cadaver course. However, they do have anatomy lectures built into the didactics. I really liked this program and felt I would be happy there. Is the lack of a cadaver course a major negative when the program seems to be a great fit otherwise?
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Depends on how much you love anatomy lab? if you learn within structured systems or independently on your own?
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I owe a lot to SDN for the reviews over the years. PM&R is hard enough to figure out as it is, so this site was immensely helpful. Giving my 2 cents back.
Relevant background: single, grew up and did schooling in the northeast, don't know where I ultimately want to settle. Interested in inpatient SCI, but I reserve the right to change my mind
1. Stanford. Fantastic for acute and chronic SCI: get acute at Santa Clara Valley and chronic with the polytrauma VA system. Well-rounded program, happy residents. Seemed to encourage professional endeavors in addition to research (e.g., policy and tech), which was refreshing. Location matters; I want to break out of the northeast and test-drive other places to see where I ultimately want to settle. Young, friendly attendings who love to teach. PD expressed major ambition about moving the program's standing even higher.
2. Spaulding. Rotated here and loved it. Residents are smart, friendly, serious. I fit in well with the culture. Research-heavy (unsure if this is a pro or a con, but it leaves the door open for academia later). Con: Actually prefer an attached facility to a free-standing one. It feels a little like an island when you can't get your consults when you need them.
3. RIC. Blown away by the resident's presentation at the beginning of the day. This place has everything within the building or within a small radius--even P&O in the same building. Fantastic for patients, fantastic for residents. Building a new monster building (research + clinical) set to open in Jan 2017. The alumni network is vast, and you write your own ticket for fellowship. Cons: unsure how supportive the faculty is. A resident (not the PD) gave the presentation at the beginning. During my interview the faculty did a lot of talking about what it takes to get into RIC (I didn't ask).
4. UWash. Loved the interview day; they put a lot of work into making sure we got a good feel for the place, since most of us hadn't visited Seattle before. The residents were ridiculously happy. Seemed a little intense in that it's an attached facility, so there's *a lot* of medicine. Very well-rounded; great peds, if that's your thing.
5. Mayo. May have put this #1 if not for the location. They train their residents to be autonomous--cool system where the PGY-4 is on the same team as the PGY-2, so the former gets training in how to teach and the latter isn't on their own. A very in-depth course devoted to ultrasound, anatomy, joint injections. Six months straight on EMGs. Mayo is a well-oiled machine, so your time isn't spent on inefficiencies that other places have. Consults, images, everything gets done, so you get to focus on the patient and the medicine. Research-heavy and easy to get involved in projects. Very supportive of their residents and treat them well. Amazing fitness center, funded by the creator of Slim-Fast. Con: It's a town of 100K and half work for Mayo. Someone joked that the other half are spouses. Minneapolis is 80 miles away.
6. Columbia/Cornell. I hate NYC so I walked in with bias. I was pleasantly surprised by how much the residents liked the program and wanted to sell me on it. Unique opportunities in peds rehab and cancer rehab (Memorial Sloan Kettering). Whatever fellowship a resident wanted, they got. Unclear on how much the PM&R program suffers from what medicine programs in NY suffer from (inefficiencies and lots of scut, since ancillary services are lacking).
7. Emory. Shepherd for SCI. 'Nuff said. The medical director met with us to answer questions, which I thought was a nice touch. Residents were smart, serious, involved in research and writing (they started Rehab in Review here).
8. Kessler. Can't argue about the amazing SCI training here. But didn't click with me. Confused about leadership--who's the chairman, who's the PD (I think there are two?), direction the program is going in. Heavy inpatient workload. The fourth years were still taking overnight call fairly frequently, including on holidays. Lots of driving. Didn't get a good sense what they had to offer outside the inpatient setting. Moonlighting only allowed if you're the first author on a paper seemed excessively snobbish and a weird way of pushing residents to publish.
9. UCLA. Everyone and their mother was from SoCal or had rotated here, except me. Very nice people, very laid-back. The PD genuinely cares about her residents and doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Focus on outpatient, though they're building a new inpatient facility (CRI--California Rehab Institute--the PD was not happy about the acronym ). Based out of the VA. Big focus on networking and getting jobs in the SoCal area after graduation, which isn't a priority for me. Lots of driving between sites.
10. Jefferson. Great for SCI. Very happy residents. The associate PD is going to become the PD. He's involved in education, so didactics are a big deal and are protected. Lots of shared courses with other Philly programs (this was advertised as a strength of training in Philly; seems plus/minus to me). Magee has paper-based charting--ugh. Overall welcoming vibe; several nurses told us "welcome to the family." Good location in a nice area of Philly.
11. National Rehab. The PD is fantastic--really turned the program around. He was incredibly transparent about the program's history and direction. They embrace the intranet and social media, which I found refreshing and progressive. Innovative curriculum; there's some cool rotations, like learning about how to run a private practice (or a big research block at the NIH, if that suits you). Overall the program felt dynamic, with an upward trajectory. Residents were down-to-earth and friendly. A little worrying to me was if the PD leaves, this place could fall back to where it was. I asked him straight-up if he was planning to stick around, and he said he was.
12. JFK. Dr. Cuccurulo is as amazing as you've heard. She is so completely invested in residents' education. There are no gaps in the curriculum, and where JFK can't do something, the residents get their training from other nearby programs. Lots of collaboration with other places. Dr. Cuccurulo goes to the ends of the earth for her residents--gets them jobs and fellowships! Only 4 residents per year here; very tight-knit. Great group of people. I'm not a huge fan of NJ.
13. Ohio State. The PD knew my app backward and forward and asked insightful questions. Unique opportunities for cancer rehab here. Very well-rounded, focus on education. Columbus is a tough sell for me.
14. Colorado. Would've ranked it higher except for a weird personal question by an associate PD I was asked during my interview. It made me distrust the program. Residents seemed very happy here. They don't rotate at Craig until their final year. Apparently the VA rotation used to be malignant, but they've hired a new person and it's no longer an issue.
15. Schwab. Focus on the underserved population. Reminds me of JFK--great PD, tight-knit group, down-to-earth residents. Like JFK, people come here for a reason, and it's the people. In a rougher area of Chicago, but residents don't live nearby.
16. San Antonio. VA polytrauma system, which is great. They treat their residents well. Lots of autonomy, lots of procedures. The PD told us they don't want residents to do research because it takes away from being a good clinician...? Felt kinda old-school. Texas isn't a good fit for me.
17. Temple. Interview day was disorganized. There's a disproportionate number of males in this program, from the faculty to the residents. Applicants were also 2:1 male:female. I felt excluded from conversations the entire day, which I'm not used to.
18. UVA. The nicest faculty, especially Dr. Smith! Residents were upfront about the shortcomings of the program (inpatient, unfortunately). Emphasis on medical humanities. I wanted so badly to rank them higher, but between the isolated location and emphasis on outpatient and private practice (both not for me), I couldn't.
19. NYU. The worst of both worlds: little hands-on experience at Rusk and way too much autonomy at Bellevue. I was wary of this program and asked every resident why they picked it. I didn't get an answer other than "I needed to stay in New York." No one seemed happy. They have weekly quizzes, because according to the chief resident, the junior residents weren't intellectually curious enough. Did not feel supportive at all here.
20. Mt Sinai. Apparently Elmhurst is a unique place where faculty is very hands-on and love to teach. But I couldn't get a great sense of what the program offered besides being in New York. Also no one did an SCI fellowship recently.
21. Medical College of Wisconsin. People were nice--big emphasis on "family" feel. But I couldn't see myself living here.
Relevant background: single, grew up and did schooling in the northeast, don't know where I ultimately want to settle. Interested in inpatient SCI, but I reserve the right to change my mind
1. Stanford. Fantastic for acute and chronic SCI: get acute at Santa Clara Valley and chronic with the polytrauma VA system. Well-rounded program, happy residents. Seemed to encourage professional endeavors in addition to research (e.g., policy and tech), which was refreshing. Location matters; I want to break out of the northeast and test-drive other places to see where I ultimately want to settle. Young, friendly attendings who love to teach. PD expressed major ambition about moving the program's standing even higher.
2. Spaulding. Rotated here and loved it. Residents are smart, friendly, serious. I fit in well with the culture. Research-heavy (unsure if this is a pro or a con, but it leaves the door open for academia later). Con: Actually prefer an attached facility to a free-standing one. It feels a little like an island when you can't get your consults when you need them.
3. RIC. Blown away by the resident's presentation at the beginning of the day. This place has everything within the building or within a small radius--even P&O in the same building. Fantastic for patients, fantastic for residents. Building a new monster building (research + clinical) set to open in Jan 2017. The alumni network is vast, and you write your own ticket for fellowship. Cons: unsure how supportive the faculty is. A resident (not the PD) gave the presentation at the beginning. During my interview the faculty did a lot of talking about what it takes to get into RIC (I didn't ask).
4. UWash. Loved the interview day; they put a lot of work into making sure we got a good feel for the place, since most of us hadn't visited Seattle before. The residents were ridiculously happy. Seemed a little intense in that it's an attached facility, so there's *a lot* of medicine. Very well-rounded; great peds, if that's your thing.
5. Mayo. May have put this #1 if not for the location. They train their residents to be autonomous--cool system where the PGY-4 is on the same team as the PGY-2, so the former gets training in how to teach and the latter isn't on their own. A very in-depth course devoted to ultrasound, anatomy, joint injections. Six months straight on EMGs. Mayo is a well-oiled machine, so your time isn't spent on inefficiencies that other places have. Consults, images, everything gets done, so you get to focus on the patient and the medicine. Research-heavy and easy to get involved in projects. Very supportive of their residents and treat them well. Amazing fitness center, funded by the creator of Slim-Fast. Con: It's a town of 100K and half work for Mayo. Someone joked that the other half are spouses. Minneapolis is 80 miles away.
6. Columbia/Cornell. I hate NYC so I walked in with bias. I was pleasantly surprised by how much the residents liked the program and wanted to sell me on it. Unique opportunities in peds rehab and cancer rehab (Memorial Sloan Kettering). Whatever fellowship a resident wanted, they got. Unclear on how much the PM&R program suffers from what medicine programs in NY suffer from (inefficiencies and lots of scut, since ancillary services are lacking).
7. Emory. Shepherd for SCI. 'Nuff said. The medical director met with us to answer questions, which I thought was a nice touch. Residents were smart, serious, involved in research and writing (they started Rehab in Review here).
8. Kessler. Can't argue about the amazing SCI training here. But didn't click with me. Confused about leadership--who's the chairman, who's the PD (I think there are two?), direction the program is going in. Heavy inpatient workload. The fourth years were still taking overnight call fairly frequently, including on holidays. Lots of driving. Didn't get a good sense what they had to offer outside the inpatient setting. Moonlighting only allowed if you're the first author on a paper seemed excessively snobbish and a weird way of pushing residents to publish.
9. UCLA. Everyone and their mother was from SoCal or had rotated here, except me. Very nice people, very laid-back. The PD genuinely cares about her residents and doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Focus on outpatient, though they're building a new inpatient facility (CRI--California Rehab Institute--the PD was not happy about the acronym
). Based out of the VA. Big focus on networking and getting jobs in the SoCal area after graduation, which isn't a priority for me. Lots of driving between sites.10. Jefferson. Great for SCI. Very happy residents. The associate PD is going to become the PD. He's involved in education, so didactics are a big deal and are protected. Lots of shared courses with other Philly programs (this was advertised as a strength of training in Philly; seems plus/minus to me). Magee has paper-based charting--ugh. Overall welcoming vibe; several nurses told us "welcome to the family." Good location in a nice area of Philly.
11. National Rehab. The PD is fantastic--really turned the program around. He was incredibly transparent about the program's history and direction. They embrace the intranet and social media, which I found refreshing and progressive. Innovative curriculum; there's some cool rotations, like learning about how to run a private practice (or a big research block at the NIH, if that suits you). Overall the program felt dynamic, with an upward trajectory. Residents were down-to-earth and friendly. A little worrying to me was if the PD leaves, this place could fall back to where it was. I asked him straight-up if he was planning to stick around, and he said he was.
12. JFK. Dr. Cuccurulo is as amazing as you've heard. She is so completely invested in residents' education. There are no gaps in the curriculum, and where JFK can't do something, the residents get their training from other nearby programs. Lots of collaboration with other places. Dr. Cuccurulo goes to the ends of the earth for her residents--gets them jobs and fellowships! Only 4 residents per year here; very tight-knit. Great group of people. I'm not a huge fan of NJ.
13. Ohio State. The PD knew my app backward and forward and asked insightful questions. Unique opportunities for cancer rehab here. Very well-rounded, focus on education. Columbus is a tough sell for me.
14. Colorado. Would've ranked it higher except for a weird personal question by an associate PD I was asked during my interview. It made me distrust the program. Residents seemed very happy here. They don't rotate at Craig until their final year. Apparently the VA rotation used to be malignant, but they've hired a new person and it's no longer an issue.
15. Schwab. Focus on the underserved population. Reminds me of JFK--great PD, tight-knit group, down-to-earth residents. Like JFK, people come here for a reason, and it's the people. In a rougher area of Chicago, but residents don't live nearby.
16. San Antonio. VA polytrauma system, which is great. They treat their residents well. Lots of autonomy, lots of procedures. The PD told us they don't want residents to do research because it takes away from being a good clinician...? Felt kinda old-school. Texas isn't a good fit for me.
17. Temple. Interview day was disorganized. There's a disproportionate number of males in this program, from the faculty to the residents. Applicants were also 2:1 male:female. I felt excluded from conversations the entire day, which I'm not used to.
18. UVA. The nicest faculty, especially Dr. Smith! Residents were upfront about the shortcomings of the program (inpatient, unfortunately). Emphasis on medical humanities. I wanted so badly to rank them higher, but between the isolated location and emphasis on outpatient and private practice (both not for me), I couldn't.
19. NYU. The worst of both worlds: little hands-on experience at Rusk and way too much autonomy at Bellevue. I was wary of this program and asked every resident why they picked it. I didn't get an answer other than "I needed to stay in New York." No one seemed happy. They have weekly quizzes, because according to the chief resident, the junior residents weren't intellectually curious enough. Did not feel supportive at all here.
20. Mt Sinai. Apparently Elmhurst is a unique place where faculty is very hands-on and love to teach. But I couldn't get a great sense of what the program offered besides being in New York. Also no one did an SCI fellowship recently.
21. Medical College of Wisconsin. People were nice--big emphasis on "family" feel. But I couldn't see myself living here.
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I can learn either way but at this time I don't have the foresight to know how much of a difference this makes to your overall training in PM&R.
Are you a current resident? How important of a factor do you think having a cadaver lab experience is in a residency program? Thanks
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It wasn't that important to me. Resources and fit were most important I ranked programs accordingly. Things worked out well for me.
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Colourmebadd. You probably would not fit in to top tier Midwest places like mayo or RIC with that attitude anyways .
I think 99% of people would disagree about people and programs in Midwest but not all places agree with everyone. I wouldn't be caught dead living in NYC although I found local people to be pretty awesome when I visited last.
Two faced fake people are everywhere...ask someone whose lived middle north abd south or DOctorJay whose loved just about everywhere but west coast.
As someone from that boring place in Rochester MN, you can afford to live around corn fields and US News and world reports number one hospital for three four years no matter where you are from...you can laugh all the way to your job and or fellowship of choice in most cases. IMHO
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Just calling 'em like I see 'em. And none of us would (or could) be caught dead living in NYC.
And there's nothing humble about your opinion, @MedBronc23
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Unfortunately that short sightedbess has no place for PM&R or medicine. There are great people and great programs all over the country...that includes NYC. Just because a place not for you direct mean you should bash a regional group based on a few isolated experiences.
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Now you're just being purposefully nit picky and/or obtuse.
Also, I wish I had gotten more interviews in the Midwest. The few that I had seemed like a lot better programs than the many that I got on the East Coast. Granted, I am a US IMG so I'm sure that changes things significantly.
I'm just ready for this whole thing to be over with. I feel like I'm moving one program up or down a spot like every other day. Time for it to just be over haha.
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Ok guys let's play nice! There are awesome and sucky people everywhere.
So, I have officially changed my list to rank Miami #1. Like 90% sure that's gonna stick through Wed.
#fewersuckypeopleinmiami
So, I have officially changed my list to rank Miami #1. Like 90% sure that's gonna stick through Wed.
#fewersuckypeopleinmiami
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Or uhhh ... This?
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Wow... to each their own, I guess. I've generally found people in the Midwest to be nicer and more polite.
That "tell it like it is" attitude is generally perceived as arrogance and rudeness in the Midwest.
Interestingly, those attitudes come from an urban/rural divide.
The culture that shaped the northeast is an urban, fast-paced culture where a greater proportion of your interactions are with strangers. There's less of a penalty paid for offending people. There is an emphasis on cutting out anything superfluous and being direct. The culture that shaped the midwest was a rural one: slower paced with lots of emphasis on friendliness and neighborliness. You take greater care not to offend people because you will deal with them tomorrow.
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Someone had said, essentially, that while Mayo is in the middle of no where the people there are (some of) the nicest in the country. I simply offered that, in my experience, it hasn't been the case, which you assumed to be based on 'a few isolated experiences' when in fact you don't know me or how long I've spent in the Great Lakes/MN area. It's not shortsightedness in the least. I'm not going to say anything more on this subject, since this is the thread about ROLs and my tell it like it is 'attitude' seems to be ruffling feathers.
Agree with RehabDoc2015. Let's stick to the topic and relax.
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So today is the day! Any last minute changes? Everybody feeling good about their decisions?
My final list:
1. Jackson/ UMiami
2. Spaulding
3. NRH
4. RIC
5. UWash
6. Tufts
7. Pitt
8. Jefferson
9. Kessler
10. Emory
11. UColorado
12. Temple
My final list:
1. Jackson/ UMiami
2. Spaulding
3. NRH
4. RIC
5. UWash
6. Tufts
7. Pitt
8. Jefferson
9. Kessler
10. Emory
11. UColorado
12. Temple
Any reason that you have Temple last?
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Nothing against temple at all, they are a very strong program and I would not mind going there. Kind of combo of factors, location plus commute to Moss, paper notes, more intense vibe, seemed male dominated. Just not my best fit.
I got a call from the chief at Schwab. Didn't interview at RIC.
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Thank you all for all your helpful posts on these forums! Wish you all the best of luck in the match!
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Here is the final ROL. If I match in my top 12, I will be ecstatic.
1) RIC - categorical
2) Case Western - categorical
3) NYU - physician reserved
4) Loyola - physician reserved
5) UPenn - categorical
6) RIC - advanced
7) Case Western - advanced
8) NYU - advanced
9) L0yola - advanced
10) Upenn - advanced
11) UMiami - advanced
12) UKansas - advanced
13) North Shore-LIJ - advanced
14) Stony Brook - advanced
15) JFK - advanced
16) San Antonio - categorical
17) Einstein - advanced
18) Wayne State Oakwood - categorical
19) East Carolina - categorical
20) Rochester - categorical
21) Albany - categorical
22) SUNY upstate - advanced
23) RIM - advanced
1) RIC - categorical
2) Case Western - categorical
3) NYU - physician reserved
4) Loyola - physician reserved
5) UPenn - categorical
6) RIC - advanced
7) Case Western - advanced
8) NYU - advanced
9) L0yola - advanced
10) Upenn - advanced
11) UMiami - advanced
12) UKansas - advanced
13) North Shore-LIJ - advanced
14) Stony Brook - advanced
15) JFK - advanced
16) San Antonio - categorical
17) Einstein - advanced
18) Wayne State Oakwood - categorical
19) East Carolina - categorical
20) Rochester - categorical
21) Albany - categorical
22) SUNY upstate - advanced
23) RIM - advanced
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Hey guys, since its ROL Day I wanted to post my list.
I am from the southeast but my wife and most of my family is from NY/PA so I wanted to stay somewhere in the south/eastern seaboard. My wife is applying to PT school so we are looking for cities that give her options for that. I love the city of Philadelphia so I gave those programs a very close look. Also, we do not want to live in NYC or Texas.
I applied to 30 PM&R programs, received 20 interview invites, and went on 13 interviews. In terms of what I was looking at on the trail: strong sports/spine exposure, strong peds exposure, 3+ months of electives, I put a lot of value into the 'feel' of the program/people when I was there (its very important to me to be in a place which you can have fun at work), and the city/living/lifestyle.
1. UPenn
2. Pitt
3. UNC
4. Emory
5. LSU
6. Virginia
7. Temple
8. Vanderbilt
9. UAB
10. Cincinnati
11. ECU
12. Kentucky
13. Jefferson
I will post my thoughts on the programs after match week gets underway. If anyone wants to know before then, PM me and I'll share my thoughts.
I am from the southeast but my wife and most of my family is from NY/PA so I wanted to stay somewhere in the south/eastern seaboard. My wife is applying to PT school so we are looking for cities that give her options for that. I love the city of Philadelphia so I gave those programs a very close look. Also, we do not want to live in NYC or Texas.
I applied to 30 PM&R programs, received 20 interview invites, and went on 13 interviews. In terms of what I was looking at on the trail: strong sports/spine exposure, strong peds exposure, 3+ months of electives, I put a lot of value into the 'feel' of the program/people when I was there (its very important to me to be in a place which you can have fun at work), and the city/living/lifestyle.
1. UPenn
2. Pitt
3. UNC
4. Emory
5. LSU
6. Virginia
7. Temple
8. Vanderbilt
9. UAB
10. Cincinnati
11. ECU
12. Kentucky
13. Jefferson
I will post my thoughts on the programs after match week gets underway. If anyone wants to know before then, PM me and I'll share my thoughts.
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I am rooting for you.
I am rooting for everyone here!
May the universe deliver us what we need, and hopefully want we want, too!
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Hey all, DO here. I applied all over, primarily looking for somewhere with strong interventional spine/pain exposure. Additionally, recently got engaged and my future spouse is looking on getting her masters degree so somewhere that can get her that is a plus. Things I considered were city size, cost of living, feel of program, interview day, work schedule, categorical v advanced, fellowship opportunities/ability to secure fellowships, and free/reduced price of further education for me and my lady. I would truly be pumped to match at any of these programs and a few others I opted not to list
1) Ohio state
2) LSU
3) Upenn
4) Case
5) Rush
6) U Kentucky
7) Schwab
etc...
1) Ohio state
2) LSU
3) Upenn
4) Case
5) Rush
6) U Kentucky
7) Schwab
etc...
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The thread has really taken off in the last 24 hours. I'm glad to see so many valuable contributions. Given all the help that I've received in recent months on this forum, I feel obliged to share my list as well for future applicants. I received somewhere around 20 interviews and decided to go on 11. Here is the outcome:
1. Mount Sinai NYC
2. Mayo Clinic
3. Rush
4. Jefferson
5. NRH Georgetown
6. Case Western
7. UPMC
8. Baylor
9. UT Houston
10. SUNY Upstate
11. Tufts
I will add more later about each individual program.
1. Mount Sinai NYC
2. Mayo Clinic
3. Rush
4. Jefferson
5. NRH Georgetown
6. Case Western
7. UPMC
8. Baylor
9. UT Houston
10. SUNY Upstate
11. Tufts
I will add more later about each individual program.
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US Grad, above average stats.
My rank list was heavily personalized to accommodate my SO. I also cancelled several interviews for the same reason.
This is how I probably would have ranked my top 10 programs if my SO were able to follow me anywhere.
Invited but did not attend interview
University of Washington
Baylor
Ohio State
UCLA
Albert Einstein
Applied but not invited
UMichigan
UCIrvine
Feel free to send me questions
Prelims:
Ranking 15 preliminary Medicine and 1 Transitional year
I also had many prelim and transitional interviews that I could not attend
My rank list was heavily personalized to accommodate my SO. I also cancelled several interviews for the same reason.
This is how I probably would have ranked my top 10 programs if my SO were able to follow me anywhere.
- RIC
- Spaulding
- Mayo
- Stanford
- NYP
- UPMC
- Mt Sinai
- Kessler
- JFK
- Jefferson
Lower: Downstate NYU Penn Rochester Temple
Invited but did not attend interview
University of Washington
Baylor
Ohio State
UCLA
Albert Einstein
Applied but not invited
UMichigan
UCIrvine
Feel free to send me questions
Prelims:
Ranking 15 preliminary Medicine and 1 Transitional year
I also had many prelim and transitional interviews that I could not attend
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I'll list my top three...I'll list the others if I match.
I followed the advice of the great Stephen Colbert and went with my gut. I am pretty sure that my list is USNews top rehab hospitals RANDOMIZED. The three most significant factors for me were: outpatient exposure, fit, and location.
1) Mayo
2) Univ of Wisconsin
3) Louisville
I followed the advice of the great Stephen Colbert and went with my gut. I am pretty sure that my list is USNews top rehab hospitals RANDOMIZED. The three most significant factors for me were: outpatient exposure, fit, and location.
1) Mayo
2) Univ of Wisconsin
3) Louisville
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Holy cow that's a lot of intern years! I'm impressed haha
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Guys and Gals...
-We got into medical school
-We survived all of classes...including the useless ones
-We awkwardly got letters of recommendation
-We submitted our ERAS packages after proofreading our personal statements about a hundred times for errors
-We have survived ERAS's opening day
-Our email filters weren't too strong and we received interview invites and rejections (well, except for Rehabdoc2015)
-We survived interviews
-Using a combination of deductive reasoning, statistics, and string theory we all were able to complete our rank lists
For the first time in a very long time, absolutely nothing is in our hands. I believe that it is important to reflect on what we have accomplished up to this point. We are all very goal directed and more often than not we lose sight of the small victories along the way. We've come a long way since the day we were just hoping to be apart of the great fraternity of medicine.
-We got into medical school
-We survived all of classes...including the useless ones
-We awkwardly got letters of recommendation
-We submitted our ERAS packages after proofreading our personal statements about a hundred times for errors
-We have survived ERAS's opening day
-Our email filters weren't too strong and we received interview invites and rejections (well, except for Rehabdoc2015
) -We survived interviews
-Using a combination of deductive reasoning, statistics, and string theory we all were able to complete our rank lists
For the first time in a very long time, absolutely nothing is in our hands. I believe that it is important to reflect on what we have accomplished up to this point. We are all very goal directed and more often than not we lose sight of the small victories along the way. We've come a long way since the day we were just hoping to be apart of the great fraternity of medicine.
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- Messages
- 137
- Reaction score
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Guys and Gals...
-We got into medical school
-We survived all of classes...including the useless ones
-We awkwardly got letters of recommendation
-We submitted our ERAS packages after proofreading our personal statements about a hundred times for errors
-We have survived ERAS's opening day
-Our email filters weren't too strong and we received interview invites and rejections (well, except for Rehabdoc2015
-We survived interviews
-Using a combination of deductive reasoning, statistics, and string theory we all were able to complete our rank lists
For the first time in a very long time, absolutely nothing is in our hands. I believe that it is important to reflect on what we have accomplished up to this point. We are all very goal directed and more often than not we lose sight of the small victories along the way. We've come a long way since the day we were just hoping to be apart of the great fraternity of medicine.
Haha I did get rejected from prelim medicine at MGH!
This is very true though!
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I guess that would serve as proof that PM&R is one of medicine's least competitive specialties.
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Ya haha not fancy enough for MGH
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I interviewed there for prelim medicine, and it's nothing fancy.
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Well glad I didn't miss much! I probably would have jumped off a bridge my second week so it's for the best
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Hey all, DO here. I applied all over, primarily looking for somewhere with strong interventional spine/pain exposure. Additionally, recently got engaged and my future spouse is looking on getting her masters degree so somewhere that can get her that is a plus. Things I considered were city size, cost of living, feel of program, interview day, work schedule, categorical v advanced, fellowship opportunities/ability to secure fellowships, and free/reduced price of further education for me and my lady. I would truly be pumped to match at any of these programs and a few others I opted not to list
1) Ohio state
2) LSU
3) Upenn
4) Case
5) Rush
6) U Kentucky
7) Schwab
etc...
GL...DO here in CBus for clinicals. Interacted with a few OSU PM&R residents during an elective I had this year. It'll be up there on my MD ROL...
I’m kind of nervous about posting, hence the alphabetical groupings instead of my exact list. These forums helped me a lot, so I want to give back. I'm posting a short blurb with the main decision factors for each program. I also interviewed at 8 prelims/TYs all over the place and ranked all of them.
Loved it! (All of these felt like a great personal fit and I’d be thrilled to end up at any of these)
- Baylor Dallas - awesome PD/residents, really nice free standing rehab hospital, well-rounded program (fellowship trained attendings in all of the main areas of rehab), very strong in peds, great camaraderie between residents and attendings
- Missouri - Good sized program, free standing rehab hospital, great PD, residents were great and happy, very well rounded program, low cost of living, pelvic rehab (this is an area of potential interest for me), strong VA presence.
- Schwab - Dr. Gittler (PD) is seriously phenomenal, the residents are smart and happy, good sized program, free standing rehab hospital, very strong didactics, Chicago is an awesome city - even if the rehab hospital is in a not so great area.
- UTSW Dallas - absolutely love the residents there, exposure to burn & pelvic rehab, huge academic setting, lots of hands-on exposure, VA involvement, strong didactics
Liked it a lot
- Loyola - liked the residents and the attendings that I met, facilities were nice, VA involvement, P&O course with the other Chicago programs
- Rush - loved the residents, great location in Chicago, 6 months of electives (didn't see that many anywhere else), great sports exposure, burn rehab
- USF - liked the PD, the residents were happy/laid back, awesome facilities, polytrauma VA/regional amputee center (working with vets is big for me, plus they have a lot of younger vets there, which would be very rewarding)
Just ok, but wouldn’t mind ending up there
- Baylor Houston/UT Houston - awesome reputation, some nice facilities, but the residents seem tired and were certainly not the happiest that I saw on the trail
- UT Austin - extremely nice PD, newer program, only 2 residents/year
- UT San Antonio - polytrauma VA center, PD is intense and kind of rubbed me the wrong way - although everyone I talked to felt the same way, strong EMGs, big program
Not my favorite
- LSU - great residents and awesome location, but too much of a pain focus for me
- Marianjoy - beautiful rehab hospital, nice suburb, loved the PD, but the residents didn't seem very happy.
- NYU - maybe I was just having an off day, but I did not like the attendings whatsoever and got a really weird vibe from the residents. But, they did give us a reusable water bottle, which was the best gift of the interview trail
- University of Rochester - nice PD, but it was a really strange interview day (no residents there, tour by the program coordinator, interview by admin staff)
Loved it! (All of these felt like a great personal fit and I’d be thrilled to end up at any of these)
- Baylor Dallas - awesome PD/residents, really nice free standing rehab hospital, well-rounded program (fellowship trained attendings in all of the main areas of rehab), very strong in peds, great camaraderie between residents and attendings
- Missouri - Good sized program, free standing rehab hospital, great PD, residents were great and happy, very well rounded program, low cost of living, pelvic rehab (this is an area of potential interest for me), strong VA presence.
- Schwab - Dr. Gittler (PD) is seriously phenomenal, the residents are smart and happy, good sized program, free standing rehab hospital, very strong didactics, Chicago is an awesome city - even if the rehab hospital is in a not so great area.
- UTSW Dallas - absolutely love the residents there, exposure to burn & pelvic rehab, huge academic setting, lots of hands-on exposure, VA involvement, strong didactics
Liked it a lot
- Loyola - liked the residents and the attendings that I met, facilities were nice, VA involvement, P&O course with the other Chicago programs
- Rush - loved the residents, great location in Chicago, 6 months of electives (didn't see that many anywhere else), great sports exposure, burn rehab
- USF - liked the PD, the residents were happy/laid back, awesome facilities, polytrauma VA/regional amputee center (working with vets is big for me, plus they have a lot of younger vets there, which would be very rewarding)
Just ok, but wouldn’t mind ending up there
- Baylor Houston/UT Houston - awesome reputation, some nice facilities, but the residents seem tired and were certainly not the happiest that I saw on the trail
- UT Austin - extremely nice PD, newer program, only 2 residents/year
- UT San Antonio - polytrauma VA center, PD is intense and kind of rubbed me the wrong way - although everyone I talked to felt the same way, strong EMGs, big program
Not my favorite
- LSU - great residents and awesome location, but too much of a pain focus for me
- Marianjoy - beautiful rehab hospital, nice suburb, loved the PD, but the residents didn't seem very happy.
- NYU - maybe I was just having an off day, but I did not like the attendings whatsoever and got a really weird vibe from the residents. But, they did give us a reusable water bottle, which was the best gift of the interview trail
- University of Rochester - nice PD, but it was a really strange interview day (no residents there, tour by the program coordinator, interview by admin staff)
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So I’m going to try to post some comments and interview day things over the next few weeks. Here are my top three. More to come in a bit.
I feel that I should write a bit of a disclaimer, these are my top programs and I would be truly thrilled to match at any of these programs. I went out of my way to find some negatives since when I was an applicant it helped me and gave me something to think about.
1) Ohio state
I ranked this program #1 not because of the spine/pain exposure but rather it checked off so darn many of my other boxes for residency. I thought the injection exposure was middle of the line but the pain research was pretty impressive. They are starting a dedicated PM&R pain fellowship this year (hopefully?) which will accept one student a year. And they recently built a huge new facility across the street which is supposedly going to have a large cancer pain division. Free graduate degree for me and half off for my future wife. Cost of living is great in Columbus, many residents rent or own homes. The name of the program allows easy fellowship potential which is nice too. Finally, the pass rate is solid.
Negatives: The freestanding facility has probably not been remodeled since the fifties. Inpatient heavy which means some fairly heavy months. Not much flexibility in the 3rd and 4th years. Really minimal degree of sports.
2) LSU
I had heard good things about this program from SDN last year in regards to pain and decided to check it out. This program not only beat every other program in regard to fluro injections it thoroughly dominated the other programs. One third year had over 800 spinal injections. Truly the happiest residents I met on the trail. They all were stoked to be there, and I really enjoyed talking to every one of them. New Orleans would be an awesome city to live in and it’s really affordable. For me the ample amount of free time equates to ability to pursue research, study for boards, and have some outside interests.
They are pain and interventional heavy, so much so that I actually left the program wondering if I was going to get a well-rounded education. Research is not as great as the other places I interviewed at.. There seems to be an extreme regional bias for people with ties to Louisiana. Coincidence or by design over 80% of the residents have some tie to the region.
3) Upenn
This was probably my favorite interview of the trail. Bowling and pizza/beer is a great way to meet everyone. The facility is really nice and you can really tell there is lots of money running through the program (they have rehab robots). Really strong sports exposure which was a huge perk for me, you can cover numerous events (mainly running) on the weekends if that is your thing. They also have a spine and sports fellowship which is nice. Pass rate was solid for the last few years. Philadelphia is a cool city from what I saw and this program is in a really nice area. Not being from the east coast I know that my weekends could be spent exploring all the awesome states nearby. It also seems that there is ample opportunity to interact with the other PM&R programs in the city.
Negatives:
Lesser known program. Less interventional exposure. Cost of living is fairly high if you want to live close to the school.
I feel that I should write a bit of a disclaimer, these are my top programs and I would be truly thrilled to match at any of these programs. I went out of my way to find some negatives since when I was an applicant it helped me and gave me something to think about.
1) Ohio state
I ranked this program #1 not because of the spine/pain exposure but rather it checked off so darn many of my other boxes for residency. I thought the injection exposure was middle of the line but the pain research was pretty impressive. They are starting a dedicated PM&R pain fellowship this year (hopefully?) which will accept one student a year. And they recently built a huge new facility across the street which is supposedly going to have a large cancer pain division. Free graduate degree for me and half off for my future wife. Cost of living is great in Columbus, many residents rent or own homes. The name of the program allows easy fellowship potential which is nice too. Finally, the pass rate is solid.
Negatives: The freestanding facility has probably not been remodeled since the fifties. Inpatient heavy which means some fairly heavy months. Not much flexibility in the 3rd and 4th years. Really minimal degree of sports.
2) LSU
I had heard good things about this program from SDN last year in regards to pain and decided to check it out. This program not only beat every other program in regard to fluro injections it thoroughly dominated the other programs. One third year had over 800 spinal injections. Truly the happiest residents I met on the trail. They all were stoked to be there, and I really enjoyed talking to every one of them. New Orleans would be an awesome city to live in and it’s really affordable. For me the ample amount of free time equates to ability to pursue research, study for boards, and have some outside interests.
They are pain and interventional heavy, so much so that I actually left the program wondering if I was going to get a well-rounded education. Research is not as great as the other places I interviewed at.. There seems to be an extreme regional bias for people with ties to Louisiana. Coincidence or by design over 80% of the residents have some tie to the region.
3) Upenn
This was probably my favorite interview of the trail. Bowling and pizza/beer is a great way to meet everyone. The facility is really nice and you can really tell there is lots of money running through the program (they have rehab robots). Really strong sports exposure which was a huge perk for me, you can cover numerous events (mainly running) on the weekends if that is your thing. They also have a spine and sports fellowship which is nice. Pass rate was solid for the last few years. Philadelphia is a cool city from what I saw and this program is in a really nice area. Not being from the east coast I know that my weekends could be spent exploring all the awesome states nearby. It also seems that there is ample opportunity to interact with the other PM&R programs in the city.
Negatives:
Lesser known program. Less interventional exposure. Cost of living is fairly high if you want to live close to the school.
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Wishing everyone the best of luck today and Friday.
"Everything will be all right in the end. And if it's not all right, then trust me, it's not yet the end."
I went through the SOAP last year with my sister so God forbid anyone here is in that situation I am happy to offer support and any wisdom I gained last year, feel free to message me.
"Everything will be all right in the end. And if it's not all right, then trust me, it's not yet the end."
I went through the SOAP last year with my sister so God forbid anyone here is in that situation I am happy to offer support and any wisdom I gained last year, feel free to message me.
