2014-2015 Interview Gossip/Chit-Chat

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beamseyeview

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I feel like having the interview Google Doc this year has taken the place of the annual interview gossip/chit-chat thread. Starting it in hopes of having a place for people to have casual conversation amid the craziness.

Links to threads from previous years:

2013-2014 Interview Gossip/Chit-Chat
2012-2013 Interview Gossip/Chit-Chat

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exciting to regurgitate my intimate knowledge of a program's "about us" page as well as answer banal questions that determine a person's opinion of me in 15 minutes.
 
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Lessons learned on the trail:

1) 2.5-3:1 Guy to Girl ratio this year. In fact, 3/7 interviews I've been on so far have been entirely male.

2) The programs I have been interviewed at interview between 12-22 applicants per residency spot, which to me seems painfully high. I don't know how things will shake out this year and how far programs are going to drop down their own lists especially because...

3) It seems like many programs are not inviting back the bulk of their rotating students for interviews.
 
Lessons learned on the trail:

1) 2.5-3:1 Guy to Girl ratio this year. In fact, 3/7 interviews I've been on so far have been entirely male.

2) The programs I have been interviewed at interview between 12-22 applicants per residency spot, which to me seems painfully high. I don't know how things will shake out this year and how far programs are going to drop down their own lists especially because...

3) It seems like many programs are not inviting back the bulk of their rotating students for interviews.

1) Agree with that 3:1 male to female ratio.

2) From what I've heard from older students, 15 interviews per spot seems to be the norm... but I've heard of a few programs this year who are interviewing close to 30 people for 1 spot, which is just insanely disheartening.

3) One of the programs I rotated at this year (not Top 10) gave me a great chair letter (mentioned multiple times on other interviews), Honors in the rotation, said a ton of nice things, and then flat out rejected me with no interview. When I inquired as to the reason for rejection, the PD said that they just "didn't have enough slots to interview everyone they wanted." Maybe its a sign of how competitive the field is this year? (For context, I'm an average applicant at a top 20 med school who likes brunch with friends and long walks on the beach.)
 
Being a female greatly helps in this field. They are rare and get a lot of invites.

Especially some of the places that take 1 person per year, I've gotten the impression that they interview 40 people per spot. You feel like you have absolutely no chance to match there and wonder why you were invited. I also get the feeling that due to this it may not be uncommon for people to match way down their list if they have a few of these places up there in their ranks.

Plenty of stories heard on the trail of people going to aways, working very hard, getting great letters and getting flat out rejected. I know of a few programs that did this to people I've met on the trail this year. The things i learn from this is that if you really want to get an interview from your away, do it at places in the lower tier ranges where you will be a serious consideration for a chance to match. The top places, not just top ten, ultimately choose who they want.
 
I was shocked at the number of away rotators our program didn't invite for interviews this year. Being a lowly resident, I have no say in who gets interviewed, and I feel terrible for most of the rotators who don't get interviewed. As a medical student, I also away rotated at a place I really liked and wanted to live, got a lot of praise for my work there with an outstanding letter of recommendation, and then no interview.

Having been on both sides of this particular issue, I think that the most important things on aways are to be prepared/dedicated, outgoing, and likeable. We all know applicants who are brown-nosers so you don't want to get labelled that way, but I think it pays (as it does in interviews) to be agreeable to whatever is going on and ask a lot of soft questions. Given the level of competition, it seems like one off day or one bad patient presentation is enough to sink a rotator for interviews. These rotators still get great letters regardless, because we still want them to have a shot at a career in radiation oncology. I think that this is short sighted on the part of faculty. I mean what resident is perfect over a whole month? Also, away rotators clearly have a high level of interest in the program. Further, what percentage of rad onc faculty have truly likeable/outgoing personalities?

Still, again I have no say on these things. I almost wonder if it makes sense to ever away rotate at programs where you really want to attend. Some people pull it off, but it's a gamble.
 
I was shocked at the number of away rotators our program didn't invite for interviews this year. Being a lowly resident, I have no say in who gets interviewed, and I feel terrible for most of the rotators who don't get interviewed. As a medical student, I also away rotated at a place I really liked and wanted to live, got a lot of praise for my work there with an outstanding letter of recommendation, and then no interview.

Having been on both sides of this particular issue, I think that the most important things on aways are to be prepared/dedicated, outgoing, and likeable. We all know applicants who are brown-nosers so you don't want to get labelled that way, but I think it pays (as it does in interviews) to be agreeable to whatever is going on and ask a lot of soft questions. Given the level of competition, it seems like one off day or one bad patient presentation is enough to sink a rotator for interviews. These rotators still get great letters regardless, because we still want them to have a shot at a career in radiation oncology. I think that this is short sighted on the part of faculty. I mean what resident is perfect over a whole month? Also, away rotators clearly have a high level of interest in the program. Further, what percentage of rad onc faculty have truly likeable/outgoing personalities?

Still, again I have no say on these things. I almost wonder if it makes sense to ever away rotate at programs where you really want to attend. Some people pull it off, but it's a gamble.

I am a huge proponent for not rotating at a place that is your top choice. 30 days is just way too many chances to rub a single person the wrong way and ruin your chances. That said, I had mixed luck with my aways as well a couple years ago, so I'm not sure this is new this year.
 
I am a huge proponent for not rotating at a place that is your top choice. 30 days is just way too many chances to rub a single person the wrong way and ruin your chances. That said, I had mixed luck with my aways as well a couple years ago, so I'm not sure this is new this year.

Given the seeming lack of effect of aways on interviews, are aways worth it at all?
 
Given the seeming lack of effect of aways on interviews, are aways worth it at all?

One of the other places that I rotated is a mid-tier program in a competitive city, and it's one of my top choices. I had a really great month there and I think it left a lasting impression. We'll really see how it goes down come rank list time, but I think (and have been told by the PD) that I did my application good by going there for a month, so my n=1 is that they're still worth doing. Plus, you get to see a different side of rad onc outside of your home program.

The things i learn from this is that if you really want to get an interview from your away, do it at places in the lower tier ranges where you will be a serious consideration for a chance to match. The top places, not just top ten, ultimately choose who they want.

I think that this is a great strategy, especially if you want to match in the Midwest.
 
Perhaps a controversial point -- but as a junior attending who is now firmly on "the other side of the fence" with respect to residency selection and interacting with rotators...Two things I want to point out....

(1) I think rotating students tend to very grossly over-estimate their performance. I continue to be amazed by the number of rotators who are subpar at even data collection, an MSI/II skill (seriously...errors in what should pretty much be transcribing pathology reports, op notes, radiation histories, etc.), let alone presenting (numerous pauses, a non-linear narrative, omitted details) or formulating a plan (not reading at all about management). I don't expect a rotator to bust out a list of randomized trials but I expect them to be able to gather an accurate history and present it to me, and maybe read a paper or two about the case so that they can make a basic plan (right or wrong). Rotators see a very minimal amount of patients (maybe three new consults max per day, usually closer to one consult per day), and should be able to function close to a "day 1" first year rad onc resident.

There are also a handful of absolutely stellar rotators that are even better than some of the junior residents. Obviously, I'm not referring to these guys. For them, it's absolutely critical to do an away.

(2) PDs don't give honest feedback because unfortunately that's the culture of medicine these days. It's much easier to give someone a decent rating than it is to skewer them and have to explain yourself and feel guilty about tanking someone's career.

Take those two points together, and you can see why a bunch of people are not being called back. It's not necessarily that the field is more competitive this year (though it might be a little bit). And also it can be important to do an away because that shows true interest in a program...this is particularly true if you're a very strong applicant that is not necessarily gunning for a top tier program.

</rant>
 
Point well taken, MegaVoltagePhoton.

I wasn't trying to single you out at all, and I apologize if it came out that way. I wasn't referring to you or your earlier posts when I made my post. I do know great applicants/rotators who have gotten "screwed" in that they rubbed one person the wrong way and it all went downhill. However, in my experience, it's far more common to have a bad rotator, than to have a great but unlucky rotator. Most rotators though are decent.
 
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I wasn't trying to single you out at all, and I apologize if it came out that way. I wasn't referring to you or your earlier posts when I made my post. I do know great applicants/rotators who have gotten "screwed" in that they rubbed one person the wrong way and it all went downhill. However, in my experience, it's far more common to have a bad rotator, than to have a great but unlucky rotator. Most rotators though are decent.

You also have to understand that rotators are new to the system so have a hard time accessing the information needed (both within and outside the hospital). Also expecting a rotating 4th year medical student to do 3 consults per day is too much. Most rotators I have seen are excellent and enthusiastic and do a great job. I really do think the evaluator should be considerate when filling out an evaluation and not destroying the medical students future by giving them a poor evaluation, unless they've been horrible ie rude to ppl, patients (I'm not talking about someone who doesn't look up the randomized trials).
 
You also have to understand that rotators are new to the system so have a hard time accessing the information needed (both within and outside the hospital). Also expecting a rotating 4th year medical student to do 3 consults per day is too much. Most rotators I have seen are excellent and enthusiastic and do a great job. I really do think the evaluator should be considerate when filling out an evaluation and not destroying the medical students future by giving them a poor evaluation, unless they've been horrible ie rude to ppl, patients (I'm not talking about someone who doesn't look up the randomized trials).

Three consults a day is the high end, but I disagree that it's too much, particularly at the end of an away. You do have a good point about accessing information and getting used to the system but that's true of first year residents too. Do you expect first year residents to not see consults or drop the ball because they're new? Maybe on week one, but how about on week three, or week four (nearly 1/3-1/2 through most rotations).

And I specifically said that looking up randomized data isn't required...what's required is knowing whether a patient who had a prostatectomy is here for postop salvage radiation, or definitive radiation (serious). Or what's required is knowing whether a patient with metastatic esophageal cancer is here to treat the brain met or the primary...particularly when the patient knows, and the rotator sees them (and presumably speaks with them first). These are two examples from this prior cycle and were only a few of multiple instances on the part of the two rotators in question. I know for a fact that they were "vocally displeased" when not offered an interview.

I also disagree, philosophically, that only the most egregious of mistakes should warrant a bad review but yes I also feel guilty about giving harsh evals. However, in general, we as physicians overlook sometimes that we literally have people's lives in our hands. We shouldn't tolerate mediocrity or worse.
 
Three consults a day is the high end, but I disagree that it's too much, particularly at the end of an away. You do have a good point about accessing information and getting used to the system but that's true of first year residents too. Do you expect first year residents to not see consults or drop the ball because they're new? Maybe on week one, but how about on week three, or week four (nearly 1/3-1/2 through most rotations).

And I specifically said that looking up randomized data isn't required...what's required is knowing whether a patient who had a prostatectomy is here for postop salvage radiation, or definitive radiation (serious). Or what's required is knowing whether a patient with metastatic esophageal cancer is here to treat the brain met or the primary...particularly when the patient knows, and the rotator sees them (and presumably speaks with them first). These are two examples from this prior cycle and were only a few of multiple instances on the part of the two rotators in question. I know for a fact that they were "vocally displeased" when not offered an interview.

I also disagree, philosophically, that only the most egregious of mistakes should warrant a bad review but yes I also feel guilty about giving harsh evals. However, in general, we as physicians overlook sometimes that we literally have people's lives in our hands. We shouldn't tolerate mediocrity or worse.

I agree with you that the mistakes mentioned above are pretty bad and I wouldn't extend an interview to them. I guess I've been lucky with the rotators I've met.
 
On the flip side, I rotated at an institution I was originally very interested in and worked hard, as I think I always try to do my best no matter the situation (not saying I was fantastic, but I clearly put in a lot of effort). Ultimately, I did not receive an interview for their radiation oncology program, and I was so happy they didn't extend one. I would have felt obligated to attend the interview considering how small the field of Radiation Oncology is, whether or not this is the best reasoning I don't know, but they would have been very far down my rank list. However, they made the decision, likely out of good reason, and I am absolutely relieved I didn't have to go to the interview.
 
Given the seeming lack of effect of aways on interviews, are aways worth it at all?

My aways helped me tremendously last year. I didn't have a home program, so in that scenario I think it's necessary to do as many as possible for letters, comparisons, and experience. I had interviews at all places I rotated at, although one was probably a courtesy interview at a place that was way above my level.
This is obviously n=1 but some people don't have the luxury of not doing aways and just have to go for it, hoping they do the best while they are there. I had great experiences at 2/3 of my aways and found a place I really liked that I would have never known about.
Not a fan of away rotators not getting interviews, that's rough.
 
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A place like MDACC has like 15 rotators a cycle if not more. There's no way they can invite every rotator, but that's fine as long as you have that knowledge going in. Most people rotate there for the letters, it's kind of an understood relationship, even while you're there.
 
I was told on an interview (at a non top 10 place) that the average for this year's applicants was a 251. Anyone else hear that? Sounds crazy high
 
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The average fo the people who filled out the google doc for last year's cycle is a 243, for comparison's sake.
 
Yes, someone took the time to point that out to me as well. I suspect the average is similar to what it was in years past though and it was merely a consequence of the criteria that specific program used. Same could probably be said for the program you interviewed at. Ultimately, if they are using step cut offs for invites, I think it is silly, a bit lazy, and likely culling out some amazing people.
 
Love it, thanks for the definitive response. Last year was about a 240 overall so that's still a pretty good one-year jump

Wouldn't be surprised if a good proportion of this jump is due to general inflation in Step 1 scores - the average is starting to approach 230 nationwide
 
Would love a PDs input here, but I get the sense people vastly overestimate the importance of Step 1 scores. I know a lot of people use them to decide who to interview but does anyone use them in the ranking process as anything more than a tie breaker? We don't, and the few other places I know the PDs or chairs well enough say the same thing.
 
Any trouble getting in contact with the Loma Linda coordinator?
 
I have some theories about away rotations. I think they are good for 1) Letters of rec. 2) experience at other programs/institutions. 3) opening yourself up to a region from which you are geographically distant. 4) getting an invite at a mid-lower tier institution and moving you up the rank list if you do well. 5) getting an interview at a high tier institution if you're VERY near making the cut for their interviews anyway and you did GREAT on the rotation.

I'll expand on each of these:
1) LOR: If you come from an off-brand institution with a small department and not particularly well known people, this is pretty important if you ask me. Getting a big-wig letter or two, I feel, was very important for my application. People from big places don't need to go elsewhere for letters unless they have reasons they can't get them from home
2) Experience: This is the true best purpose of away rotations, in my opinion. I really learned so much about how things are done differently at other institutions. Coming from just one place (particularly if small) you "don't know what you don't know". I gained a lot of insight into what my career goals were by seeing other things.
3) Geography plays in when you're trying to get interviews. Particularly outside the top tier. I'm from the southern east coast. I don't think I would have gotten the interviews I did on the west coast if I hadn't rotated out there. Top tier places can offer who they want b/c people will travel. Mid tier places aren't going to offer someone with no ostensible reason to be in a distant place unless you give them a reason. Rotating is one way. Reaching out in your personal statement might help.
4) While this is a competitive field, places still want to get their top choices, and good programs still scramble. If you're a strong applicant, expressing interest in a mid-tier place by rotating can provide you a good foothold in an institution. If you do well, they think you want to come (well heck you rotated...), then I think in this scenario it will move you up the list.
5) Based on what I hear on the trail, I don't think rotating buys you an interview to a top place if you're not already qualified. Here's why I think that's true: Besides the discussion here of how easy it is to mess up in a 30 day period, I think it goes deeper. Rad Onc program directors get amazing applications. Many people seem to sparkle on paper. But when you meet them, you realize that most students are "pretty good". It's very hard to impress a resident or attending in a field you're a novice at at this point. So you can work hard, be really prepared, do a great presentation... but in the end how do you make someone think you're so amazing? I haven't figured out a way how, and in all of my rotations with dozens of other students, I'd describe almost all of them as "pretty good". Including myself. I'm super new. I mess things up. I try hard. I'm not stupid. I'm usually fun to be around but I rub some people the wrong way. So unless you're one of those invisible unicorns that can dazzle experts in the field, I don't think your hard work and personality will make up for your non-competitive scores, pubs, activities, etc. Not at top tier places. SO given the fact that you're probably a "pretty good" medical student, imagine a PD looking at a stack of amazing applications. Perhaps yours is one of them. But they know you. So what you might have done by rotating is taken some of the shimmer off of your application. They knew you were "pretty good". But this other application... this person might be amazing! Look at all they've done. Look at their volunteer work. Their academic record. Wow!! In that scenario, I think the mystique of the student they haven't met based on their paper application trumps the equally glittery application of the rotator who was "pretty good".
If you're not on par with their normal interview pool, I don't think rotating gets you a spot unless you totally nailed it at every level.

Whether or not doing a rotation will move you up on the list, I'd say, is also debatable. I bet at mid tier places, it helps. At top tier places, I'm not sure. Historically it seems like 50% of folks match either at home or where they rotated. This seems to point towards rotating helping you match, but I'd also mention that this is likely to self select really heavily. Lots of people rank home/rotation locations highly, and their "pre-match probability" of wanting to go there is also high. So who knows.

For context, I'm a current cycle applicant, and I rotated at a top 5 and top 30 (if you believe doximity) place. I got invites to both. I don't think I shined so brightly that I bought myself interviews, but I think it helped a lot with geography.

Of course this is all speculation... just ideas I've got that could be completely wrong.
 
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I think all of the above is really on-point. I'm currently a MS4. I had 4 LoR writers, 2 from a small program (including the PD) that was considered my 'home' rotation (and got glowing comments on my rotation eval), and the other 2 were the PD and Chair from a bigger program (in comparison, but not a top 5 or even probably top 10 institution for Rad Onc. However, my rotation eval comments were quite pedestrian at the bigger institution). Seems like every place I've interviewed so far knew either one or both folks from the bigger program, and put more stock into those letters (which were apparently very good) as opposed to the two from my small 'home' institution (which multiple interviewers have told me - "I have no idea who these two people are, but they really like you as an applicant")

All of this is complicated by my lack of outstanding Step 1 score (< 230) and middling performance in pre-clinical years, with some improvement in the clinical years (mostly HP, one H, one P). However, I did do a significant amount of productive and published research in a year off that has been heavily discussed by multiple interviewers.

I think aways were beneficial to me, because I consider myself a better candidate in person than on paper (especially because my 'on paper' was pretty borderline for applying to Rad Onc). I got interviews at all 3 of my aways, but I didn't bother rotating at MDACC or MSKCC, as I wouldn't expect to get an interview there even if I came and was the most amazing medical student they ever worked with in their entire lives (which I wasn't even at these other locations, although I did ALWAYS know why someone was there, unlike the example of a medical student not knowing definitive radiation vs post-op salvage for prostate cancer).

I think if you believe yourself to be a better candidate in person than on paper, you should do aways. If you have a big home department that you can get LoRs from big wigs, then you probably don't have to do as many aways. I think the most important thing is to pick your away rotation sites carefully (what's the goal with going to MDACC? A letter from a known hospital? A letter from a big-wig? Or are you truly shooting for an interview invite from a top 5 institution?), and if possible, try to break geographical bias.

For example, I know a guy who did an away at MDACC (being from the Northeast without ties to Texas). He didn't match (or even get an interview) at MDACC, but he did get interviews from the rest of Texas, and ended up matching at a location he didn't rotate at. Pretty good reason to do aways in terms of opening up geographical regions for your application.
 
I have some theories about away rotations. I think they are good for 1) Letters of rec. 2) experience at other programs/institutions. 3) opening yourself up to a region from which you are geographically distant. 4) getting an invite at a mid-lower tier institution and moving you up the rank list if you do well. 5) getting an interview at a high tier institution if you're VERY near making the cut for their interviews anyway and you did GREAT on the rotation.

I'll expand on each of these:
1) LOR: If you come from an off-brand institution with a small department and not particularly well known people, this is pretty important if you ask me. Getting a big-wig letter or two, I feel, was very important for my application. People from big places don't need to go elsewhere for letters unless they have reasons they can't get them from home
2) Experience: This is the true best purpose of away rotations, in my opinion. I really learned so much about how things are done differently at other institutions. Coming from just one place (particularly if small) you "don't know what you don't know". I gained a lot of insight into what my career goals were by seeing other things.
3) Geography plays in when you're trying to get interviews. Particularly outside the top tier. I'm from the southern east coast. I don't think I would have gotten the interviews I did on the west coast if I hadn't rotated out there. Top tier places can offer who they want b/c people will travel. Mid tier places aren't going to offer someone with no ostensible reason to be in a distant place unless you give them a reason. Rotating is one way. Reaching out in your personal statement might help.
4) While this is a competitive field, places still want to get their top choices, and good programs still scramble. If you're a strong applicant, expressing interest in a mid-tier place by rotating can provide you a good foothold in an institution. If you do well, they think you want to come (well heck you rotated...), then I think in this scenario it will move you up the list.
5) Based on what I hear on the trail, I don't think rotating buys you an interview to a top place if you're not already qualified. Here's why I think that's true: Besides the discussion here of how easy it is to mess up in a 30 day period, I think it goes deeper. Rad Onc program directors get amazing applications. Many people seem to sparkle on paper. But when you meet them, you realize that most students are "pretty good". It's very hard to impress a resident or attending in a field you're a novice at at this point. So you can work hard, be really prepared, do a great presentation... but in the end how do you make someone think you're so amazing? I haven't figured out a way how, and in all of my rotations with dozens of other students, I'd describe almost all of them as "pretty good". Including myself. I'm super new. I mess things up. I try hard. I'm not stupid. I'm usually fun to be around but I rub some people the wrong way. So unless you're one of those invisible unicorns that can dazzle experts in the field, I don't think your hard work and personality will make up for your non-competitive scores, pubs, activities, etc. Not at top tier places. SO given the fact that you're probably a "pretty good" medical student, imagine a PD looking at a stack of amazing applications. Perhaps yours is one of them. But they know you. So what you might have done by rotating is taken some of the shimmer off of your application. They knew you were "pretty good". But this other application... this person might be amazing! Look at all they've done. Look at their volunteer work. Their academic record. Wow!! In that scenario, I think the mystique of the student they haven't met based on their paper application trumps the equally glittery application of the rotator who was "pretty good".
If you're not on par with their normal interview pool, I don't think rotating gets you a spot unless you totally nailed it at every level.

Whether or not doing a rotation will move you up on the list, I'd say, is also debatable. I bet at mid tier places, it helps. At top tier places, I'm not sure. Historically it seems like 50% of folks match either at home or where they rotated. This seems to point towards rotating helping you match, but I'd also mention that this is likely to self select really heavily. Lots of people rank home/rotation locations highly, and their "pre-match probability" of wanting to go there is also high. So who knows.

For context, I'm a current cycle applicant, and I rotated at a top 5 and top 30 (if you believe doximity) place. I got invites to both. I don't think I shined so brightly that I bought myself interviews, but I think it helped a lot with geography.

Of course this is all speculation... just ideas I've got that could be completely wrong.

Slightly off topic but I'll be applying and doing aways this coming year so I found this interesting. If my application would be considered competitive at top programs you would recommend against doing rotations there then?
 
Slightly off topic but I'll be applying and doing aways this coming year so I found this interesting. If my application would be considered competitive at top programs you would recommend against doing rotations there then?

Just do what you want. If you really want to be somewhere then consider doing it. It would be a good way to know if you would really be happy there.

Outside of that is all speculation. I have heard of snobbery where X program director looks down on your application for rotating at Y program and not theirs. Could be true but maybe not. The benefit of aways is a very individualized decision. My chair and PD told me I was a strong applicant on paper. I really didn't know where I wanted to go and was open to a lot of places. On their advice I did no aways and got interviews at most places that I applied to. Maybe I would have gotten more if I did aways? I chose to enjoy the heck out of 4th year instead and I'm glad I did.
 
Just do what you want.

Yes. An easier said than done piece of advice in all of this is not to overthink things, which I've found to be almost impossible. Rotate if you want. Not gonna make or break you.
 
I will qualify this with the fact that this is the feeling of a junior attending, and my own opinion. However, I think a few of you are potentially overthinking things and also selling yourselves a bit short. What exactly are you afraid of? You've done MSIII year, which is all the training you should need. Your responsibilities are essentially going to be to see a few consultations/follow-ups and do an end-of-rotation presentation, while not being a douche. If you are not confident that you can do it as an MSIV, what makes you think you can do it as a PGY-2? Do you think the pressure is suddenly off once you've matched (it's not)?

Also, there is a lot of BS in general, and the best way to get a look at a program you are actually interested in is either to do an away or be very close friends with a resident at said program.

I know I scared off some people with my initial comments about bad rotators, but why would your initial supposition be that you'll be a bad rotator? I'm sure you (the potential applicant) is smart and capable. My post was more targeted at the fact that there ARE bad rotators, so doing an away shouldn't guarantee an interview (in that most people that did an away and didn't get interviewed must have messed up badly, whether they knew it or not). However, those bad rotators are a salient minority, not the norm.
 
Interesting discussion on here about away rotations.

When I was applying in 2006 the standard advice was that away rotations were essential. I heeded that advice, maybe to an extreme, and did 4 away rotations. I got interviews at all except MDACC, but I did not expect to get an interview there and came away with a great letter, and more importantly, great relationships with important people in the field.

Looking back on the experiences of away rotations now, I see them as invaluable experiences - not for increasing my chances of matching (I actually matched at a place where I did not rotate) but for the experiences themselves. I made friends that continue to be friends, colleagues and mentors in the field to this day. I got exposure to very different departments, teaching styles, technology, etc. In many respects, these away rotations formed a solid foundation for my education as a resident and have continued to influence my career with decisions regarding employment, practice management, etc.

Of course, I have "the luxury" of this perspective having been through it and now looking back as an attending. At the time I was doing the rotations, my perspective was much different and focused completely on just getting a spot somewhere.

Whether rotations help you land a spot or not I guess is debatable. But my own experience is that the rotations were invaluable for a number of other reasons. Also, for those that may be nervous about their board scores, research or some other weakness in their application (which was my case), away rotations allow you the opportunity to shine and make connections with folks who may take a genuine interest in you - that was what I felt happened with me. I knew I had no chance of matching at MDACC and so did probably my faculty mentor that I rotated with at MDACC - but I think she saw in me someone who was genuinely interested in the field for the right reasons, hard-working, good attitude and she wanted to help me get into the field.
 
The annoying thing is being asked about your away rotations by some programs in ways that imply that the rotation hurt you in some way. Oh so you rotated there so does that mean that you want to go there? are you just particularly interested in that region? Well i applied and spent money to come here so I'm interested in YOU.

I came to learn about YOUR program not to spend half my interview being asked about another institution. I would prefer to speak nothing about other programs. It's super awkawrd to be asked "what I thought about Y program". Tell me about yours. [/rant]
 
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If you are not confident that you can do it as an MSIV, what makes you think you can do it as a PGY-2? Do you think the pressure is suddenly off once you've matched (it's not)?

My experience has been that it takes a lot to get kicked out of a residency program. It takes very little to be ranked low or not ranked at all. Even a comment that was taken out of context could sink you. Whereas residents do things that annoy faculty or their residency cohort all the time, applicants and rotators pretty much have to sparkle all the time. A one month rotation gives you a lot more time to screw up in minor ways.

there ARE bad rotators, so doing an away shouldn't guarantee an interview (in that most people that did an away and didn't get interviewed must have messed up badly, whether they knew it or not). However, those bad rotators are a salient minority, not the norm.

I think this is very residency and even faculty specific. So it's a gamble. Even within a single institution you might get put with friendly faculty with whom you click well, or you could get put with cranky faculty who heavily scrutinize you and don't help you even if you do well. So a minor screw up at one program might be overlooked, ignored, or not seen as a screw up, but not get you invited somewhere else. What's even sadder is that you will probably never know what you did or said, or what was expected and that you didn't do.

Thus, I would disagree that someone must have "messed up badly" to not get an invite after rotating. I used to think that, but after doing away rotations at a few places, talking to residents at other programs, and seeing how it has been over the years where I'm a resident... I really don't think that's true anymore. Aways are just a gamble, like everything else. The competition is so high that you need to be prepared to go anywhere if you apply in rad onc. Even getting a specific region is a stretch.
 
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Fair enough. Though again, in my experience, there have been some bad rotators (even if a minority) and it wouldn't surprise me if those people, who generally lacked both medical knowledge and social awareness, were a vocal minority about not getting called back.

I don't have all the answers, just throwing things out there.
 
Since when does medical knowledge have anything to do with radiation oncology?
 
I'm guessing you're more of a tech than a radiation Oncologist
 
I'm guessing you're more of a tech than a radiation Oncologist
It's amazing to see the variety of roles out there in rad onc. Some of the old school docs are literally end-chain referral radiation pharmacists that fill and "sign" the prescription and that's it.

I sometimes get primary referrals from pulm and surgery first, where I end up getting the patient on pain meds/decadron if necessary and instituting the w/u including imaging, eus referral, oncotype/egfr, infusiport etc gift wrapping it for the med onc
 
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I won't lie, I use very little of my internal medicine internship training in rad onc practice.
 
In the context of my comment, "medical knowledge" referred to oncology knowledge. For example, I would expect a subI seeing a gastric cancer case to know the basic risk factors for gastric cancer. I would expect a subI seeing a maxillary sinus case with maxillary nerve signs to be able to tell me about the functions and anatomy of the trigeminal nerve.
 
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