2012 IR Fellowships

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IRneuroIR

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I thought I'd start a thread regarding this year's IR fellowship process/Match. It was very competitive this year and I saw a dramatic increase in the interest in IR and competition for fellowship positions.

Dr. V -- what is your perspective about this year?

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From what I have been hearing , this has been one of the most competitive years in the relatively short history of IR fellowships. This bodes well for the field. This comes at a time when IR continues to grow in its clinical role in the hospital setting. Also, more and more procedures are coming to expand the role of IR in more and more common diseases including but not limited to
peripheral vascular disease, stroke therapy, BPH?, fibroids , varicose veins to name a few.
 
I agree that this will be great for our field and for the expansion of clinical IR. On that note, I have also seen increased medical student awareness and interest in IR. There is a 4th year medical student rotating in our department who is specifically interested in IR and even took the initiative to attend the SIR meeting in Chicago this past March. I can certainly admit that I didn't know half as much about IR as he does but am enthusiastic for the future of clinical IR.
 
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I would expect IR to only get more competitive given the proposed cuts that just came out that will certainly affect IR the least
 
What does it take to open up additional IR fellowship spots? I'm rather unclear as to how these training positions are paid for and who determines how many spots are open at an institution.
 
You'll learn that in the world of graduate medical education (residency and fellowship), spots are often limited to funding and also appropriate training.

In regards to funding, the vast majority of graduate training positions are funded through CMS (Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services = federal government) with a minority of positions funded through other means (i.e. state funding, direct funding from the hospital/institution). Funding covers more than just the resident/fellow salary ($40-70k/year depending on location, PGY level, etc.), it covers the associated malpractice coverage, having teaching faculty, and other intangible factors such as ordering/doing more tests, etc.

The other factor for training positions (again residency or fellowship) is appropriate training which is generally determined by the ACGME (Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education). For example, for an IR fellowship, there needs to be an adequate spectrum of diseases and procedures, minimal teaching requirements, acceptable facilities, etc. Based on these factors, ACGME will determine how many positions a program is allowed to have. There are, however, non-ACGME accredited fellowship positions -- both for generally ACGME accredited programs such as IR and neuroradiology and for non-ACGME accredited programs such as body imaging, musculoskeletal imaging, etc.

And just to make things more complicated, sometimes programs can be accredited by ACGME for more positions than CMS is willing to pay for (e.g. the program is accredited for up to 16 residents but only has CMS funding for 12 resident positions).

So if an IR fellowship fills and you really wanted to go there, they simply cannot just "create" another position without looking at these major factors as well as other considerations (i.e. would adding another fellow "dilute" the experience for the others? Who is going to pay for the position?).

Obviously this is a complex issue and I hope I've given a reasonable answer to your question.
 
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That clears up a lot of questions, thanks!

Just seems like a bit of a shame if there's a lot of folks interested in IR and the bottleneck now is training slots.
 
I thought I'd start a thread regarding this year's IR fellowship process/Match. It was very competitive this year and I saw a dramatic increase in the interest in IR and competition for fellowship positions.

Dr. V -- what is your perspective about this year?


looking at 2011 results you should compare the fellowship match rates for IR to other specialities out there. You would then realize that IR really is not that competetive. That is not say it won't get more competetive but right now it just isn't near things like GI, cards, peds cards, peds EM, etc. I think it won't get that competitive for a long time. Pay would have to be cut pretty drastically for imaging. Also I feel like more IR fellowships will open up as time moves forward because of IR's increasing role in care.

I think a lot of students interested in rads are thinking IR now because we don't want to lose pt contact. But that is also a misunderstanding of what diag rads does and the amount of contact they have. If it really was as low as is thought then more people would go IR.

I also think the lifestyle factor of IR plays into lots of people's decisions to go away from the field as they get more into their diag rads residency. They get used to what they do and they see the kind of money they can make from specializing in imaging and doing some very minimal procedures any radiologist can do and they are happy with that. IR lifestyle wise is very similar to surgery.

Here is the link to the fellowship match data:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddatasms2011.pdf
 
Those statistics however do point to a growing trend in the number of people applying for IR. in 2007 it was 90, in 2010 it was 160+ and in 2011 its over 200. The number has more than doubled. When I went through interviews a couple years ago it was clear that a huge majority of 4th years claimed an interest in IR. The exposure of medical students to IR has contributed to the overall competitiveness of radiology in general. Its been a common trend for incoming residents to be interested in IR and that usually fades as people gain expertise and interest in the diagnostic imaging subspecialties but now we're talking about going from 10% of radiology residents going into IR to over 25% applying for it. I think these numbers will continue to rise. The interest in IR has only increased even more the last few years. The type of med student applying for and getting spots in radiology is more geared toward exposure and interest in IR. What I mean by that is that there are a whole lot more people going into diagnostic radiology residencies only because they want to do IR and nothing else. It wasn't always like that, before few people knew what IR even was and they chose rads for rads, and some of them decided to go into IR. Now there's a whole culture of rads for IR. I can't tell you how many people like that I met on my interviews and during internship and now in my program and other neighboring programs.

Part of it is that IR allows med students a chance to feel like a part of the team, directly interacting with attendings and fellows, obtain more didactics, scrub in cases is more interactive and they more quickly feel like they have some useful knowledge whereas diagnostic radiology is not only passive for a rotating med student, but there's a lot of jargon and expertise required to even understand basic things. So naturally med students gravitate toward IR, then that influences what they end up wanting to do.
 
yeah there is a growing trend and med students gravitate toward it because they can relate to that field moreso than diag rads I think (IR is similar to surgery I would say). And yeah as you said, a lot end up changing their minds obviously when they realize they can still interact and do things with patients on a regular basis in the diag field.

As it stands now, the stats show lots of positions still going unfilled. So there currently is more than enough. I also think more fellowships will open up and more rads people want to have some training in IR in order to incorporate into their practice. For example, there is no reason you need to do full time IR in rads. You could easily split your time 50% IR and 50% imaging as far as I know depending on where you work and what type of practice you get into. So yeah either more spots will open up or the training will be divided up more so based on a particular interest (kinda like surgery with its vascular, CT, colorectal, etc). There's already neuroIR so it's only a matter of time before IR becomes more specialized I think.
 
looking at 2011 results you should compare the fellowship match rates for IR to other specialities out there. You would then realize that IR really is not that competetive. That is not say it won't get more competetive but right now it just isn't near things like GI, cards, peds cards, peds EM, etc. I think it won't get that competitive for a long time. Pay would have to be cut pretty drastically for imaging. Also I feel like more IR fellowships will open up as time moves forward because of IR's increasing role in care.

Just because the match rates are high doesn't mean it's not competitive. There is a thread on auntminnie about tons of applicants from top programs matching at their 10th through 15th programs this year in IR. Some not matching at all. I would say it's still pretty doable for most, but to say it's not competitive is just wrong.
 
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Just because the match rates are high doesn't mean it's not competitive. There is a thread on auntminnie about tons of applicants from top programs matching at their 10th through 15th programs this year in IR. Some not matching at all. I would say it's still pretty doable for most, but to say it's not competitive is just wrong.

As with most fellowships, are IR fellowships more about who you know, rather than what you know (ie. board scores, research, etc).
 
Another quick questions about IR fellowship. Would doing a residency at a community program hurt your chances to get a top IR fellowship (ie. BCVI, UCSF, Brown?) There is a well regarded community program in my home city (in the top 15 largest cities in the country), and I would love to go back there. But if I am hurting my chances for the future, I rather just go all in for academic programs.
 
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Another quick questions about IR fellowship. Would doing a residency at a community program hurt your chances to get a top IR fellowship (ie. BCVI, UCSF, Brown?) There is a well regarded community program in my home city (in the top 15 largest cities in the country), and I would love to go back there. But if I am hurting my chances for the future, I rather just go all in for academic programs.

Depends on the program's reputation...true top, top IR fellowships are biased towards big names (just like top residencies are biased toward big name med schools). But there are plenty of IR programs that will give just as good a training as those top 5 programs, and you can match to a very strong program from pretty much anywhere. Even if you are interested in academics, there are PLENTY of places that will serve as a launching pad for a career in academia. And if you are going into PP, you can train at the worst IR program in the country and still get a job in the area you trained.

See how you feel after interview season. If you think you would be happiest at the program in your home city, you will probably have to weigh the age-old location vs prestige debate.
 
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